DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 714]

We need to put the wind in context.. the FBI ADMITTED that the winds were an ESTIMATE (Sorry Robert and Eric) using data from Salem and Portland and averaged between 8 PM and 9 PM. Salem and Portland are far from the LZ.

The winds near the LZ and placard were not a fact and if you drill down into the data it appears it was likely off. The winds nearer 8 PM were Southerly. Tom Kaye looking at the data claimed the winds were consistent all the way down and more Southerly than estimate. However, like the FBI data his data set was still far from the LZ. 

"The two closest locations were Salem just south of Portland and Quillayute Bruce said was just west of Seattle. They launch twice a day at 5pm and 5am so that is the data we have. I had him pull a second random day Nov 11 for comparison and you can see that the winds then were actually east near the ground. Nov 24 looks pretty consistent all the way down but seems to be more southerly than we had estimated. Now you can do a proper analysis."
Tom Kaye

 

If you look at the data in the FBI files, the wind was clearly from the ESE to S.. and if Tom’s assertion that it was consistent all the way down then the FBI wind estimate was off and the wind was actually more in line with the flight path. That would mean Cooper drifted back essentially along the flight path.

The SSE to S wind around 8 PM is supported by other historical data. 

The assumption made was using data Salem and Portland data and then averaging it over an hour.. The winds were shifting from ESE near 8 PM to SSW nearer 9 PM.

Anybody claiming the wind at the LZ or placard is a fact is 100% wrong, even the FBI claimed it was an ESTIMATE.  

The FBI did revise the wind direction estimate to be more southerly spinning the LZ slightly. The search area moved slightly West.  

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by FLYJACK

[EJU 3]

Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss Sheridan Peterson.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

 

 

[FLYJACK 714]

1 hour ago, EJU said:

Daily DB Cooper Bite. I discuss Sheridan Peterson.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DBCooperChannel

 

 

Ridiculous,,, you trying to gain cred from media which you were the source of.

You are 98% certain of SP because an FBI agent thought she may have talked to the real DB Cooper..  some are convinced it was McCoy. FBI agent comments/opinions aren't evidence.

You have nothing, less than nothing. SP doesn't match the revised sketch or the descriptions, Cooper was latin in appearance and characteristics. In fact, later on the FBI actually eliminated people because they matched the first sketch which was inaccurate.

Truth is, the argument for SP is an extremely weak circumstantial one, virtually non-existent.

Eric has consciously or subconsciously just pursued a grand speculative goal seeking exercise.

[dudeman17 340]

I'll leave it to the dedicated researchers to debate the flight path, the winds, the placard and what-not, but it is discussed how far Cooper may have drifted after exiting the airplane, and there is a factor, from a jumper's perspective, that may affect that, especially if Cooper was an experienced skydiver. And that factor is, how high did he open the parachute.

 

So, IF Cooper was a skydiver...

In those days, skydiving was still a fairly 'barnstorming' venture, and the people involved were fairly ballsy. (Add to that the ballsiness of someone willing to hijack an airliner.) It was not uncommon for people to intentionally pull extremely low. 'Ground rush is a gas, but it sure ain't practical.' There were low-pull contests in which two jumpers would face off in freefall and play blackjack with the Reaper. Some people speculate whether Cooper pulled right out the door, at altitude. I would seriously doubt that. It's been mentioned that typical pull altitude is around 2500'. The reasons for that is, one, to give time to deploy a reserve in the event of a malfunction, and two, to give room to maneuver the parachute into the ideal landing spot. Neither of these apply to Cooper because he only has one parachute, a bailout rig that IS a reserve, and it is non-steerable, i.e. non-maneuverable. One of the factors in the success of his jump is exactly where did he land - safely in an open field, or drifting into trees/rocks/a hillside where there is a higher chance of injury, hampering his ability to hike out. So Cooper's best chance at landing safely may have been to maneuver himself in freefall (yes, you can do that) over an open field, then pull so low so as not to drift out of it.

So how far did he drift? Possibly not far at all.

[haggarknew 4]

13 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

I'll leave it to the dedicated researchers to debate the flight path, the winds, the placard and what-not, but it is discussed how far Cooper may have drifted after exiting the airplane, and there is a factor, from a jumper's perspective, that may affect that, especially if Cooper was an experienced skydiver. And that factor is, how high did he open the parachute.

 

So, IF Cooper was a skydiver...

In those days, skydiving was still a fairly 'barnstorming' venture, and the people involved were fairly ballsy. (Add to that the ballsiness of someone willing to hijack an airliner.) It was not uncommon for people to intentionally pull extremely low. 'Ground rush is a gas, but it sure ain't practical.' There were low-pull contests in which two jumpers would face off in freefall and play blackjack with the Reaper. Some people speculate whether Cooper pulled right out the door, at altitude. I would seriously doubt that. It's been mentioned that typical pull altitude is around 2500'. The reasons for that is, one, to give time to deploy a reserve in the event of a malfunction, and two, to give room to maneuver the parachute into the ideal landing spot. Neither of these apply to Cooper because he only has one parachute, a bailout rig that IS a reserve, and it is non-steerable, i.e. non-maneuverable. One of the factors in the success of his jump is exactly where did he land - safely in an open field, or drifting into trees/rocks/a hillside where there is a higher chance of injury, hampering his ability to hike out. So Cooper's best chance at landing safely may have been to maneuver himself in freefall (yes, you can do that) over an open field, then pull so low so as not to drift out of it.

So how far did he drift? Possibly not far at all.

excellent post

[FLYJACK 714]

Was there any "training" procedure for military aircrew regarding a pull in poor viz from 10k. 

[haggarknew 4]

9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Paratroopers would mostly jump static line I have heard. Jet pilots used ejection seats. The only thing I ever heard in the Army was a few guys saying you got out...tried to get stable...pulled the ripcord...and hoped for the best. This was done by bomber crews in WW2 sometimes when their plane was shot down. It was better to take a chance on the chute and just GET OUT before the bomber crashed. I am not a skydiver so I don't know much about it. 

Additional on Peterson as the skyjacker:  I give seven pretty good reasons in that WordPress article I linked back there on why he wasn't Da Guy. But reason Number Seven is probably the most important:

In a nutshell...not a chance in hell he was Cooper. 

Update: I have no idea how it happened, but the article on Sheridan Peterson at WordPress where I show the seven best reasons he WASN'T Cooper, went from an average of around 50 views a day at WordPress to almost a THOUSAND. Weird, but good. I have posted the link to it previously at Dropzone and it never did that. Not sure how it happened, but appreciated. And some folks say no one listens to me. 

It's hard to get past the blue eyes and baldness. That being said, I personally would like to see pics from the campout. I enjoy seeing the pics of the mountains and forests. Looks like extremely beautiful terrain. Someday I would like to see it in person.

[FLYJACK 714]

Probably from Google search..

 

Eric seeded the media with his Sheridan Peterson is Cooper false narrative..

people google search "Sheridan Peterson DB Cooper"

the 5th result is..

Sheridan Peterson – The DB Cooper Hijacking

https://thedbcooperhijacking.wordpress.com/tag/sheridan-peterson/

Posts about Sheridan Peterson written by Robert M. Blevins.

 

 

 

 

[812Shadow 0]

11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Paratroopers would mostly jump static line I have heard. Jet pilots used ejection seats. The only thing I ever heard in the Army was a few guys saying you got out...tried to get stable...pulled the ripcord...and hoped for the best. This was done by bomber crews in WW2 sometimes when their plane was shot down. It was better to take a chance on the chute and just GET OUT before the bomber crashed. I am not a skydiver so I don't know much about it. 

Additional on Peterson as the skyjacker:  I give seven pretty good reasons in that WordPress article I linked back there on why he wasn't Da Guy. But reason Number Seven is probably the most important:

In a nutshell...not a chance in hell he was Cooper. 

Update: I have no idea how it happened, but the article on Sheridan Peterson at WordPress where I show the seven best reasons he WASN'T Cooper, went from an average of around 50 views a day at WordPress to almost a THOUSAND. Weird, but good. I have posted the link to it previously at Dropzone and it never did that. Not sure how it happened, but appreciated. And some folks say no one listens to me. 

I found it by searching.  Nice write up.  910 views is a lot.  I never heard of the man.  The Daily Mail (Daily Fail) article left out all of this information about Peterson.  The story has already died.  Who will be the next suspect?

[haggarknew 4]

10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

One thing about Peterson that pointed me toward 'innocent' was his attitude back a few years ago, when he was still going on social media occasionally. He would joke about being a suspect in the hijacking, and make sort of light about it. Not exactly bragging, but you could tell he thought it was funny that people would actually consider him a possible DB Cooper. And when the FBI showed up at his door, he wasn't afraid. He didn't dodge their questions. He provided the DNA sample willingly. He didn't ask for a lawyer. 

But as he got older, and had to deal with people like Bruce Smith and Eric Ulis 'investigating' him, he got a little grouchy about it, especially when a certain person tried contacting his family. Someone who is actually guilty of a crime that could easily put them away for life does not enjoy the attention. Peterson, for a while, DID. 

The guy has marched in peace rallies, civil rights rallies, and jumped all over the world. Even if he had decided to pull off a hijacking for money, he certainly wouldn't have come to the party dressed in loafers and a suit. No way. One thing about Sheridan is he always showed up prepared any time he was going to jump. And he's made thousands of jumps in his lifetime, although I don't know the exact number. The idea that he would make a phony (we hope) bomb, threaten peoples' lives for money, and show up to do it without even a pair of decent shoes is definitely NOT a Peterson move. His whole life has been one of standing up against violence, injustice, and he was a teacher to boot. If you want to judge a suspect on personality alone, his chances of being Cooper are less than zero. 

Robert says:  Pics from one of the Adventure Books of Seattle Cooper campouts? Because you were talking about something else, and then I saw that bit from you sort of inserted into your comment. LATE EDIT:  The WordPress article on the recent campout is HERE.  We are totally crazy, of course.  I have deleted my access to both the DB Cooper Forum and Bruce Smith's Mountain News, so if you are one of those there making the usual nasty comments about Gayla Prociv and yours truly under phony usernames and identities...I'm not seeing them anyway. I feel pretty good about life ever since. It's been two weeks since I cut the cord, and each day gets easier all the time. I'm already planning the next campout, only this time I won't have to haul mass gear 200+ miles to do it. We're going back to the Olympics. Apps are already coming in from people who want to attend. Down with the haters, up with the positive and fun stuff. That's my angle on this whole thing. I may scrub toilets for a living, but brother...hatred is not on my agenda. 

 

no malice intended     I am a member of Shutter's forum.  I always use the same na

 

10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

One thing about Peterson that pointed me toward 'innocent' was his attitude back a few years ago, when he was still going on social media occasionally. He would joke about being a suspect in the hijacking, and make sort of light about it. Not exactly bragging, but you could tell he thought it was funny that people would actually consider him a possible DB Cooper. And when the FBI showed up at his door, he wasn't afraid. He didn't dodge their questions. He provided the DNA sample willingly. He didn't ask for a lawyer. 

But as he got older, and had to deal with people like Bruce Smith and Eric Ulis 'investigating' him, he got a little grouchy about it, especially when a certain person tried contacting his family. Someone who is actually guilty of a crime that could easily put them away for life does not enjoy the attention. Peterson, for a while, DID. 

The guy has marched in peace rallies, civil rights rallies, and jumped all over the world. Even if he had decided to pull off a hijacking for money, he certainly wouldn't have come to the party dressed in loafers and a suit. No way. One thing about Sheridan is he always showed up prepared any time he was going to jump. And he's made thousands of jumps in his lifetime, although I don't know the exact number. The idea that he would make a phony (we hope) bomb, threaten peoples' lives for money, and show up to do it without even a pair of decent shoes is definitely NOT a Peterson move. His whole life has been one of standing up against violence, injustice, and he was a teacher to boot. If you want to judge a suspect on personality alone, his chances of being Cooper are less than zero. 

Robert says:  Pics from one of the Adventure Books of Seattle Cooper campouts? Because you were talking about something else, and then I saw that bit from you sort of inserted into your comment. LATE EDIT:  The WordPress article on the recent campout is HERE.  We are totally crazy, of course.  I have deleted my access to both the DB Cooper Forum and Bruce Smith's Mountain News, so if you are one of those there making the usual nasty comments about Gayla Prociv and yours truly under phony usernames and identities...I'm not seeing them anyway. I feel pretty good about life ever since. It's been two weeks since I cut the cord, and each day gets easier all the time. I'm already planning the next campout, only this time I won't have to haul mass gear 200+ miles to do it. We're going back to the Olympics. Apps are already coming in from people who want to attend. Down with the haters, up with the positive and fun stuff. That's my angle on this whole thing. I may scrub toilets for a living, but brother...hatred is not on my agenda. 

 

me (haggarknew) when posting.   I very much enjoy camping with my family and love seeing pics of the wild country of the Pacific northwest.

 

 

[haggarknew 4]

18 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Shutter's place has lightened up a bit lately I've heard. Not so the other place, but people can see that for themselves if they choose to look. No big deal...

Some pictures from previous trips:

 

 

Thanks for pics. Very beautiful countryside. It's on my bucket list of places to visit

[mrshutter45 21]

where is the photo showing all involved. where are there tents and set up? 

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by mrshutter45

[FLYJACK 714]

On 6/28/2019 at 8:45 AM, FLYJACK said:

We need to put the wind in context.. the FBI ADMITTED that the winds were an ESTIMATE (Sorry Robert and Eric) using data from Salem and Portland and averaged between 8 PM and 9 PM. Salem and Portland are far from the LZ.

The winds near the LZ and placard were not a fact and if you drill down into the data it appears it was likely off. The winds nearer 8 PM were Southerly. Tom Kaye looking at the data claimed the winds were consistent all the way down and more Southerly than estimate. However, like the FBI data his data set was still far from the LZ. 

"The two closest locations were Salem just south of Portland and Quillayute Bruce said was just west of Seattle. They launch twice a day at 5pm and 5am so that is the data we have. I had him pull a second random day Nov 11 for comparison and you can see that the winds then were actually east near the ground. Nov 24 looks pretty consistent all the way down but seems to be more southerly than we had estimated. Now you can do a proper analysis."
Tom Kaye

 

If you look at the data in the FBI files, the wind was clearly from the ESE to S.. and if Tom’s assertion that it was consistent all the way down then the FBI wind estimate was off and the wind was actually more in line with the flight path. That would mean Cooper drifted back essentially along the flight path.

The SSE to S wind around 8 PM is supported by other historical data. 

The assumption made was using data Salem and Portland data and then averaging it over an hour.. The winds were shifting from ESE near 8 PM to SSW nearer 9 PM.

Anybody claiming the wind at the LZ or placard is a fact is 100% wrong, even the FBI claimed it was an ESTIMATE.  

The FBI did revise the wind direction estimate to be more southerly spinning the LZ slightly. The search area moved slightly West.  

 

Self proclaimed experts still fail to understand simple concepts...

 

The wind data posted above is used for an estimate, a proxy for Woodland based on Salem and Portland data and averaged over an hour...  not very accurate for the LZ.

I can read the direction..  the issue is Salem and Portland are far from the assumed LZ and averaged over an hour period 8-9PM.

That is just not precise enough to claim the wind as a FACT as Eric does. The wind is an ESTIMATE just as the FBI stated.

There is no data available for the exact time and location jumped.

That is the point. The data shows a ESE, SSE, S to SSW shift from 7 thru 9 PM..  That means the wind at the LZ may have been SSE to S nearer to 8PM. The ground data shows this wind shifting. 

 

The proxy wind data from a significant distance and averaged over an hour is just not accurate enough to validate Eric's and Robert's claim.

 

The F 106 pilots never indicated where Cooper jumped, the person writing the 302 indicated that the veer East is about where they thought Cooper my have jumped based on an 8:10 bump/osc.

The veer East then turn right indicated by the F 106's destroy's the western flight path and corroborates the FBI path. The western flight path is dead.

 

The FBI flight path is accurate and Cooper most likely jumped between 8:09 to 8:12 along that path.. 

The FBI originally used a SW wind then a SSW wind, shifting the search area. But looking at the vague method they used to ESTIMATE the winds near Woodland, it is clear that it is not at all precise to time and location. 

The winds at 8:09-13 could have been from SSE to SSW... that spins the potential LZ counterclockwise and Cooper may have drifted along or slightly W of the flight path.

 

I don't know if they searched slightly W of the flight path, I assume they did.

 

 

 

[mrshutter45 21]

If you read the 302. it states that the plane veers to the east. this could be the 8:12 location. then he claims the plane makes a right turn. this would be the 8:15 location and very close to the parachute icon on the sectional map he states. this would be Scholl's airfield. 8:10 -8:12 it veers to the west.

The radio transcripts are set in perfect time. the other set of transcripts have the faults of up to 3 minutes +- marked with an asterisk. the others are +- one minute. 

The radio transcripts show 8:12 PST. this could be Cooper on the stairs and not jumping yet. then the plane makes a right turn....

[dudeman17 340]

37 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

If you read the 302. it states that the plane veers to the east. this could be the 8:12 location. then he claims the plane makes a right turn.

Are you sure about that? The way I read this statement...

 

On 6/27/2019 at 10:21 AM, FLYJACK said:

FBI FILE #10 P419

__________ WAS INFORMED _________ PORTLAND AIRPORT, THAT TWO CHASE PLANES WHICH WERE FOLLOWING FIVE MILES BEHIND  HIJACKED AIRCRAFT SUDDENLY VEERED TO THE EAST AND THEREAFTER MADE A RIGHT TURN. THE POINT OF THEIR CHANGE OF COURSE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN CLOSE PROXIMITY IN TIME AND LOCATION TO THAT BELIEVED WHERE THE UNSUB DEPARTED THE AIRCRAFT.

...it's not 100% clear whether they're referring to Cooper's jet. It kind of sounds like they're describing turns made by the chase planes. Could those turns be one of the S turns made by the chase planes to stay behind the jet? If so it might be mentioned to indicate that the chase planes were farther away at the point Cooper is believed to have jumped.

[mrshutter45 21]

here is the whole portion of the statement...

[mrshutter45 21]

lol, so you promote camping trips every other post and have a rule not to take photo's of the trip. how is that any good with regards to helping the case by hiding everyone. is this China? 

[mrshutter45 21]

56 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Are you sure about that? The way I read this statement...

 

...it's not 100% clear whether they're referring to Cooper's jet. It kind of sounds like they're describing turns made by the chase planes. Could those turns be one of the S turns made by the chase planes to stay behind the jet? If so it might be mentioned to indicate that the chase planes were farther away at the point Cooper is believed to have jumped.

Good catch. this sounds like a statement coming from the Portland radar operator and clarifies how they knew about Scoll's airfield or the area close to it with skydiving. it is marked on the sectional map.

Edited July 1, 2019 by mrshutter45

[FLYJACK 714]

2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

Good catch. this sounds like a statement coming from the Portland radar operator and clarifies how they knew about Scoll's airfield or the area close to it with skydiving. it is marked on the sectional map.

I don't think they are referring to Scholl's, if you read the entire doc they note the bump/osc at 8:10 and the area between Amboy and Heisson as the jump zone...  that puts Scholl's too far South and suggests they are referring to an airport near the point the plane veered East (changed course).

[mrshutter45 21]

It doesn't matter what I think about the adventure. it just doesn't make sense that you censor the trip. who does that on a fun outing? that's my opinion. 

Names are not the subject. it's okay. I'll just put in the nobody showed file. it's all good. 

What should we do at other events. show an empty stage where dozens of people will be and not show them? 

[mrshutter45 21]

9 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I don't think they are referring to Scholl's, if you read the entire doc they note the bump/osc at 8:10 and the area between Amboy and Heisson as the jump zone...  that puts Scholl's too far South and suggests they are referring to an airport near the point the plane veered East (changed course).

It's the only location with a parachute near by marked on the sectional chart..has to be that area. it's specific...

Edited July 1, 2019 by mrshutter45

[mrshutter45 21]

It could still reflect to what Carr stated by mixing up the oscillation with the pressure bump. it's 5 -10 minutes after the last contact. that gives a window down to 8:15...closer to Portland proper or the vicinity thereof. closer to Ariel doesn't make sense with the statement of the suburbs...

[mrshutter45 21]

The 8:10 statement has an asterisk with it. that means the statement could be off by up to 3 minutes. could be. nobody knows. the radio transmission shows 8:12 PST. 

[FLYJACK 714]

8 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The 8:10 statement has an asterisk with it. that means the statement could be off by up to 3 minutes. could be. nobody knows. the radio transmission shows 8:12 PST. 

yeah, it is an estimate, the point is Scholl's is about 8 miles past Heisson, that is outside the defined jump area in the same doc,, unless 8 miles is considered within "close proximity"??

[mrshutter45 21]

It's not really the point of not finding anything north. it's whether or not they were looking in the right spot to begin with. as time progressed, even the FBI admits it might be further south than first thought...doscuments even back then put the possibilities all the way to the Columbia..that's a lot of ground and tells me they really didn't know. I think they did the best they could for that period...

Edited July 1, 2019 by mrshutter45