dudeman17 340 #55001 October 15, 2020 On 10/14/2020 at 2:21 PM, dudeman17 said: In both an article and a video that were linked here some time ago, it is indicated that in their normal hydraulic operation, the stairs are either all the way up or down 23 hours ago, FLYJACK said: The stairs are hydraulic lift, gravity drop I suck at search functions, how far back would I have to go to find that video? (Maybe posted by 377?) I seem to remember it being hydraulic both ways. And the article was linked I think by Derek, of all people, so it may have disappeared in a spam purge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55002 October 15, 2020 55 minutes ago, dudeman17 said: I suck at search functions, how far back would I have to go to find that video? (Maybe posted by 377?) I seem to remember it being hydraulic both ways. And the article was linked I think by Derek, of all people, so it may have disappeared in a spam purge. I am sure I have read the stairs are gravity drop, the hydraulics don't push them open but they control the gravity drop.. hold back an abrupt fall - crash. It is an emergency exit... you can't rely on hydraulics to open it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55003 October 15, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, chinaplague5 said: I know a lot of people that smoke with their off hand All of them, some a few,, 3, 7, 67?? It happens but not the norm. Which hand to they have on the bomb when they are smoking? Do they carry a briefcace with the off hand? It indicates Cooper was a long term heavy smoker,,, Sheridan was not a smoker, Cooper didn't fake smoking to throw off investigators. Edited October 15, 2020 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 340 #55004 October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, FLYJACK said: I am sure I have read the stairs are gravity drop, the hydraulics don't push them open but they control the gravity drop.. hold back an abrupt fall - crash. It is an emergency exit... you can't rely on hydraulics to open it. I dunno... Hydraulics are closed pressure systems run by pumps. To allow it to 'gravity drop' would take forever, and would not allow the door to 'free float'. The emergency handle would disconnect the door from the hydraulic system, allowing it to be opened by hand, and would also allow the free float. (There would have to be emergency handles both inside and outside for escape and rescue, hence the inner or outer placards.) Gonna have to find that video. 11 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said: In case you missed it... Now you're the spammer, haha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55005 October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, dudeman17 said: I dunno... Hydraulics are closed pressure systems run by pumps. To allow it to 'gravity drop' would take forever, and would not allow the door to 'free float'. The emergency handle would disconnect the door from the hydraulic system, allowing it to be opened by hand, and would also allow the free float. (There would have to be emergency handles both inside and outside for escape and rescue, hence the inner or outer placards.) Gonna have to find that video. Now you're the spammer, haha. We don't know what that plane had... the 727-100 and 200 series had completely different systems.. but the 100 had an "optional" separate emergency release system behind its own panel door right of the main panel.. The 200 had the emergency release built into the main handle. The optional emergency release was later removed from Commercial passenger 100's.. I had speculated that Cooper pushed the main lever but didn't press the button and then pulled the emergency system.. The problem with that is,, the emergency system needs to be repaired (locks broken) after it is pulled and there is no record of any damage. The emergency cover is completely removed, obviously missing and the handle is clearly pulled. The only damage noted was minor to rear stairs. So, I really doubt Cooper pulled the emergency system. When the AFT AIRSTAIR light came on Cooper must have moved the main lever. Remember, during the sled test the airstairs bounced back up when it left.. they did not lock down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55006 October 16, 2020 DUDEMAN17 "What might make sense for 'oscillations'...When Cooper opens the door, they drop somewhat but are being held up (partially closed) by the air pressure of the relative wind. When he ventures out on them to jump, his weight causes them to lower somewhat, which would affect the pitch (tail up/nose down). When he jumps, the stairs recoil back up, past their 'static' position. (In fact, they apparently almost closed, which caused the 'pressure bump'.) Then they would fall back down again, again pushing on the air. They would bounce up and down on the air a number of times before settling back to the 'static' position. each time giving a bit of pitch influence." Yes, this is the generally accepted theory.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55007 October 16, 2020 (edited) Ulis keeps spewing garbage... The part found near Cinebar was never ID'd as the fibreglass skirt,, it was never shown to be from Norjak,, if he repeats it enough times people believe it as fact. The Placard was never proven to be from Norjak. The FBI walked it back. It is possible but unlikely. I have outlined many reasons but another is the placard looks too clean to have been out in the PNW woods for seven years. There is no dirt, no staining, nothing on it. This is too "fresh"... Eric's Western Flight Path argument is nonsense.. assumptions and poor logic. 1) The placard find location. Not proven to be from NORJAK and wind at that location NOT known. The wind drift analysis is garbage. The placard was found within the flightpath error.2) The fiberglass skirt find location. Gross Speculation. Part not identified as the skirt and not in any way linked to NORJAK.3) The money find location. The money find location isn't evidence of a Western Flight Path. There are many plausible ways the money could have arrived there. Not knowing how doesn't prove an alternate flightpath. and along the same lines but focusing on the opposite...4) The complete lack of a single piece of physical evidence pointing to any other flight path. None. Zilch. Nada. Zero. After 49 years. This is a false on two levels. We don't know that nothing was ever found, nothing was given to the police/FBI,, that doesn't mean nothing was ever found. The false assumption is that anything found was given to FBI. Plus, the fact that nothing was known to be found doesn't mean Cooper didn't land there. This is a very weak theory that doesn't come to close to negating the overwhelming evidence for the "FBI" path.. Edited October 16, 2020 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 340 #55008 October 16, 2020 6 hours ago, FLYJACK said: DUDEMAN17 "What might make sense for 'oscillations'...When Cooper opens the door, they drop somewhat but are being held up (partially closed) by the air pressure of the relative wind. When he ventures out on them to jump, his weight causes them to lower somewhat, which would affect the pitch (tail up/nose down). When he jumps, the stairs recoil back up, past their 'static' position. (In fact, they apparently almost closed, which caused the 'pressure bump'.) Then they would fall back down again, again pushing on the air. They would bounce up and down on the air a number of times before settling back to the 'static' position. each time giving a bit of pitch influence." Yes, this is the generally accepted theory.. Hmmm, okay. Just what was said over there, especially a few days ago in the 'Tina Bar Money Find' thread, made it sound like no one was sure what was meant by 'oscillations'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 340 #55009 October 16, 2020 14 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: ...but since I ditched those movie companies and freed myself from their damned Confidentiality Agreement, I no longer have to keep secrets... So... About that Sky Sports guy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55010 October 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, dudeman17 said: Hmmm, okay. Just what was said over there, especially a few days ago in the 'Tina Bar Money Find' thread, made it sound like no one was sure what was meant by 'oscillations'. Most people accept it as the theory,,, The question is what time exactly did Cooper jump and where exactly was the plane at that time. Radio transmissions have a time delay/rounding error and the flightpath has a N/S timing 1 minute error rate. Several times have been reported 8:12, 8:11, 8:10 and the FDR at 8:09. The FDR has a blip at 8:09.... was that Cooper descending, jumping or the airstair retraction? Oscillations after Cooper jumped.. Edited October 16, 2020 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 340 #55011 October 17, 2020 Robert, I gotta say that your brain is denser than granite. You use the slightest excuse to redundantly repeat the same crap over and over again that has nothing to do with the question you've been asked. You are an absolutely unreliable source of information. And I'm guessing that you type faster than an auctioneer talks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFS346 7 #55012 October 17, 2020 On 8/20/2019 at 3:57 PM, FLYJACK said: The DB Cooper F-106 pilots were...Randy Plumb dec 1999 Harve Wallace ?? A retired USAF colonel and F-106 pilot from 318th FIS has shared his recollection that the lead pilot was Major Frank Loesch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55013 October 17, 2020 (edited) Ready,,, here we go.. DEC 1978.. The FBI determined from the plane blueprints that the Hicks Placard came from the OUTSIDE of the aircraft. JAN 1979.. FBI knowing the location of the Placard on the OUTSIDE walked back the Sherrif's claim that it could have only come from NORJAK.. "could have been dropped from any Boeing 727" The FBI made this statement knowing the location of the placard on the plane. "no positive proof that the decal came from the Cooper plane" Next,,, MAY 1979.. a second decal is found in North Skamania County. Some name redacted expert claimed this second placard is 99% from the same aircraft as the Cooper plane.. I think that means a 727, not the exact plane. Conclusion, the FBI knowing the location of the first Hick's placard (outside the plane) claimed that it could have come from any passing 727. If it came from inside the stairwell they would not have made that assertion. and,, There was a second Placard/Decal from a 727 found. The Hick's placard looks too fresh/clean to be in the woods for 7 years,,, IMO, it is extremely unlikely to have come from NORJAK and there is no evidence it did. Using the Hick's placard as evidence for a western flightpath is self serving garbage. Edited October 17, 2020 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55014 October 18, 2020 (edited) The stairwell is the outside in the context of pressurization,, but The placard was on the outside of the aircraft.. in this context or the FBI would never have said "NO PROOF" and it could have come from any 727. If they meant inside the stairwell then their statement means all passing 727's had the stairs open. They walked it back AFTER they investigated it. That placard doesn't fit next to the bulkhead door, doesn't go on the main panel and doesn't match or fit on the emergency release flange. The instructions don't even make sense for the 727 stairwell emergency system. The second 99% placard means a 727 (same aircraft), not 305. That suggests placards fall off 727's... often I doubt either decal came from NORJAK. NWO commenter on the placard used "probably" and "surmised", aka speculations.. an opinion, not facts. Eric and Robert on the wind at the placard location.. there is NO DATA. They made it up using FBI estimates from Salem and Portland. Drift analysis is junk. Eric made up the "fiberglass skirt", the found part was never confirmed or identified.. no evidence it was from NORJAK.. it was rejected by the FBI. Maybe it was a hoax, we don't know. He has repeated it so much that everyone believes the part found was the damaged fiberglass skirt from NORJAK... crazy stuff. The claim was a part 8" x 40" above the stairs... with a part number. That doesn't match the skirt. There is a piece that exact size right above rear edge stairwell of the 727. Edited October 18, 2020 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55015 October 18, 2020 (edited) Placard find is within the flight path map error.. This is the doc Eric claims describes NORJAK shredded fiberglass skirt... IT DOESN'T The size is 8" x 40" directly above the stairs... that matches this part perfectly. It was NOT missing from NORJAK just as the FBI stated. The part found that Eric claims is evidence of a western flight path is nonsense. This is Eric's MO, using layered gross speculation and conjecture to create a narrative. Challenge that narrative with facts and he'll call you a troll so he doesn't have to respond. The entire discussion about the Cinebar part being from NORJAK is flawed.. Edited October 18, 2020 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55016 October 18, 2020 The Cinebar part found was 8" x 40" directly above the rear stairs door with a part number.. that doesn't match the broken pieces of the skirt. This photo is interesting, it shows the sled test,,, the part right at the tip/end of the stairs is about 8" x 40". It is not missing and the FBI said no part that size was missing from NORJAK. Further, the side skirt is still intact at this point, stairs open with a man's weight on them. The part was right at the rear seam of the airstair door, its fasteners could have broken off and been pinched when the door closed and then dislodged in flight. It may have been a botched repair job,,, left loose.. What is clear is the part found did not come from NORJAK. Eric is still using a juvenile fallacy,, "prove my theory wrong or else it is fact". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55017 October 20, 2020 BREAKING,, Anonymous intel officials have confirmed that the Western Flight Path is the hallmark of Russian disinformation.... Cooper's laptop was planted.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55018 October 20, 2020 Eric Ulis still using his opinion as evidence.. "perhaps you can take a stab at how the skirt and placard ended up in the woods. The question no one has yet to answer." I have answered it, some of it for over a year... Shutter has taken a shot. Eric's false claims. The Cinebar part was never identified as the piece of the damaged the skirt as Eric claims. It was described as 8" x 40" which matches exactly the description and location of the part right above the end tip of the 727 airstairs.. that part is shown in the sled test images and the FBI said no part that size was missing.. The Cinebar part being from NORJAK is nil. Hick's Placard.. The FBI stated there was "NO PROOF", IT COULD HAVE COME FROM ANY PASSING 727 and it was FROM THE OUTSIDE. This was AFTER they had done their investigation and had the blueprints. The Hick's Placard does not match the interior of the 727-100 optional emergency release system. NORJAK was never confirmed to even have that Placard. The Hick's placard coming from NORJAK is extremely unlikely. Further, Eric and Robert99 claim they know the wind at the Placard location and that proves the western flight path, they don't. The FBI admitted the wind was an ESTIMATE for Cooper's LZ.. based on over an hour time span (8-9) from Portland and Salem data. Far from the Placard location. Even if the Hick's Placard came from NORJAK (which is doubtful) the wind drift analysis is a gross assumption. Also, the placard looks too "fresh" to be in the woods for seven years.. no dirt, no stains absolutely clean. The tears look like it was installed above rivets, those are outside not inside the aircraft. The Placard was found within the error of the path on the map. Factoring the map error it WAS NOT WEST.. Further, a second Placard was found from a 727... The "evidence" that Eric and Robert99 claim prove/support a Western Flight Path isn't fact. It is gross conjecture and layered assumptions. Nothing they claim or has been disclosed in this case undermines the generally accepted central flight path. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55019 October 20, 2020 Eric claims Tom Kaye's updated wind data was used... "For the 100th time, the FBI winds were an ESTIMATE (FBI WORD) based on an average over an hour from 8-9 from Portland and Salem data. Portland is about 40 miles away and Salem about 70 miles.. This is far from the Placard location. There is no data for the Placard area. The closest is Toledo which had wind from the S at 8:00.. even Portland had wind from SE at 7 PM. Seattle wind was SSE at 8 PM. Tom Kaye's wind balloon data doesn't really help.. SALEM and W of SEATTLE, not even close." Tom K.. The two closest locations were Salem just south of Portland and Quillayute Bruce said was just west of Seattle. They launch twice a day at 5pm and 5am so that is the data we have. I had him pull a second random day Nov 11 for comparison and you can see that the winds then were actually east near the ground. Nov 24 looks pretty consistent all the way down but seems to be more southerly than we had estimated. Now you can do a proper analysis. TOM KAYE This updated data is irrelevant to the placard find location.. it even suggest a more southerly direction... but Eric and Robert99 use it as evidence.. IT IS NOT. Ask them for the wind data at the placard location,, they don't have it, they made it up. The FACT is the winds throughout the area were shifting from SE to SW between 7-9... There is NO wind DATA for the placard location at the time the plane was near. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55020 October 20, 2020 (edited) Shutter, when you look at the wind data it was generally the same direction but different speeds at levels.. I only used Toledo as an example that it was from the S.. I never claimed to know the wind at the Placard location... I am claiming that Eric and Robert99 do not know the wind and have made an assumption from an out of context estimate. They even claim Tom K's data supports them and it doesn't in any way.. It amazes me that none of you have actually asked Eric or Robert for the source of the wind data used at the Placard find,,, there isn't any. The drift is BS. Now Eric is still claiming the part found was the skirt, he is making it up, he doesn't know that. The part was 8" x 40" directly above the stairs, that does NOT match the skirt or fragment of it. Would a fragment happen to be that size and have a part number, doubtful. It matches a part right above the end of the airstairs, a part that was not missing from NORJAK. Eric's claim that the Cinebar part is from NORJAK is an opinion, a very poor one. Eric claims Boeing confirmed the placard was inside next to the bulkhead door.. BS.. there is no room for it there, either Eric is full of it or there was a misunderstanding. The FBI said "NO PROOF" from NORJAK and it could have fallen form any passing 727 after they investigated and had the blueprints. Nobody has ever confirmed that NORJAK ever had that placard. The FBI concluded "NO PROOF" but Eric claims it is a fact. Eric claims facts that are really weak opinions.. Wind from Portland and Salem was an "ESTIMATE" between 8-9 for the LZ.. and the direction is fairly constant from the surface up.. This estimate does not even apply to the placard location or time. Edited October 20, 2020 by FLYJACK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 340 #55021 October 20, 2020 17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: You cannot expect me to respond to comments posted at another site... It's not my job to check into that website, and then respond to that HERE. I do NOT do this. That is exactly what you did. 17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: If you have a question for me, and expect an answer... ask it here at Dropzone. I did. Repeatedly. 17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: If you don't get the responses or answers you want, don't blame me. Yeah. I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 340 #55022 October 21, 2020 2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: You understand that post was directed at SHUTTER, right? I already answered YOU back there about a page I guess. Yes I know that that post was directed primarily at Shutter. But you wrote it sort of generally, so I thought I'd answer it. Because what you were reacting to was part of a conversation that Shutter and I were having regarding that in fact you did NOT answer me. And, as is your wont, you spent several paragraphs NOT answering me. You are deluded, Robert. To the point of concern for your mental acuity. You get a narrative in your mind, and you seem to think that if you detail it out enough and spew it onto some website, that it will resemble some sort of reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dudeman17 340 #55023 October 21, 2020 Robert, you gotta let all that shit go. It's history, and it ain't gonna change. Carrying it around and constantly regurgitating it will put you in an early grave. This issue really has nothing to do with Shutter. He was just commenting on it. 1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said: Why in the hell do you believe I 'owe' you anything? ...what makes you think that MY research is YOURS, and you are somehow entitled to know all about it? You like media references. Here's one... the soundtrack to the answer... It's really simple... 1. You told dw, this forum, and me that you would report the results of your interview to this forum. 2. Based at least in part on that commitment, dw gave you the contact. 3. You refuse to share the results. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55024 October 21, 2020 Alice thought Cooper's sunglasses were prescription... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYJACK 716 #55025 October 22, 2020 and the Vortex never lets you leave.. This sounds like the Cinebar part,, identified and rejected by the FBI. But it is dated 1973, the other doc is dated 1975, Either the FBI filed it twice, the Boeing employee submitted it twice (a hoax?) or two parts were found.. (neither from NORJAK) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
