DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 711]

16 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Man are you triggered. Such a name caller too. I'm a TROLL. I'm a SHILL,... Is the N- word next? Check out number one... 

1. Ad hominem — Thou shall not attack the person’s character, but the argument.
2. Straw man fallacy — Thou shall not misrepresent or exaggerate a person’s argument in order to make them easier to attack.
3. Hasty generalization — Thou shall not use small numbers to represent the whole.
4. Begging the question — Thou shall not argue thy position by assuming one of its premises is true.
5. Post Hoc/False cause — Thou shall not claim that because something occurred before, it must be the cause.
6. False dichotomy — Thou shall not reduce the argument down to two possibilities.
7. Ad ignorantum — Thou shall not argue that because of our ignorance, claim must be true or false.
8. Burden of proof reversal — Thou shall not lay the burden of proof onto him that is questioning the claim.
9. Non sequitur — Thou shall not assume “this” follows “that” when it has no logical connection.
10. Bandwagon fallacy — Thou shall not claim that because a premise is popular, therefore it must be true.

 

 

You are trolling, you keep repeating the same unfounded nonsense over and over with passive aggressive attacks toward people that aren't falling for it..

You are wasting your time here though, this forum is far too knowledgeable about the case to accept the BS Reca narrative and inaccuracies. 

Anybody who claims the plane went East is completely discredited.. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 711]

12 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Your 50 years of failure are very telling. You have trusted the most untrustworthy people in the US...... You Chase the Goose and the Red Herring and you'v gotten nowhere it seems. It's not just an Inept FBI ... They lied... They hid evidence. They ushered in a new level of suppression of your freedoms.  They ushered in the TSA and all the BS that comes with them. Hindsight is 20/20. Look at all the freedoms we've lost since 1971.

Your vacuous and caustic bromides don't advance the case knowledge base which is the purpose of this forum.

Suspect narratives like Reca and others that are easily dismissed are a waste of energy.

as for failure, you have no idea what research other people have done that is not shared publicly.

The Reca narrative is out there and it fails on all fronts due to lack of evidence, false/misleading evidence and exculpatory evidence.

Just because the Government lies, is inept or hides evidence does not give you or anybody cover to make up your own reality..

Reca/Peca is not a legitimate suspect, your 15 minutes are up. We need to get back the actual case.

[FLYJACK 711]

7 minutes ago, Slim King said:

THIS line of illogical thinking is why you have failed so far. The FBI covered up the Cossey lies. The FBI covered up the cigarette and the hair. The FBI covered up that Cossey, Brennan and Peca all jumped together in the Seattle area and all were friends. The FBI covered up the fact that they never even questioned a prime suspect who fit the description but they contacted Cossey and Brennan who were all part of the same group. Peca had applied for government work. They knew his skill set. Please explain why he was never questioned even though he still lived in Washington and was easily accessible? I'm still researching and please stop with the straw man BS ... I've never said on this forum that Peca is DB Cooper, however I am exploring every possibility! Sounds to me like you no longer want the truth but you want this thing to never be solved. Funny that....

Unless you have evidence of something new and based on facts, I am not interested in your alternate reality,, sorry

can't speak for others of course..

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 711]

On Reddit Carr is mocking the claim of a Cooper suspect involved in the Bay of Pigs and a CIA operative..

Unfortunately Carr is wrong.... again. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbcooper/comments/wx43sx/additional_clues_on_db_coopers_identity/

His name is Bradley Earl Ayers. He was investigated by the FBI but both stews rejected his image.

last line in FBI doc

"who apparently participated in the Bay of Pigs Invasion and other CIA sponsored activities."

Here is a rabbit hole for somebody to go down..

 

CIA files on Ayers..

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/4178918/CIA-OP-FILES-ON-BRADLEY-EARL-AYERS.pdf

 

and regarding Flo, she was hounded by somebody trying to prove the Cooper suspect Coffelt was Cooper, somebody he was in prison with claimed he was Cooper, so perhaps the two "suspects" got conflated in the story. It isn't clear..

Edited August 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[georger 244]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Unless you have evidence of something new and based on facts, I am not interested in your alternate reality,, sorry

can't speak for others of course..

 

Same here sorry to say. Suspects have become boring and uninteresting. Carr uses the word "actionable". If someone has an "actionable" suspect with finger prints, dna, and Cooper $20s, the parachute, clothes, or other hard evidence .... let us know. 

May have news about the money find in the coming days. People are discussing it in the background... stay tuned.

Edited August 26, 2022 by georger

[FLYJACK 711]

1 minute ago, Slim King said:

Good... I suggest you get out of my way and quit attacking me while I apply logic and reason to the information provided. My goal is to provide some success to this inquiry rather than failure. I intent to be skeptical of everything until it is proven. Sounds to me that you think everyone is a shill and troll who doesn't agree with you.

No, people here often disagree on different aspects of the case but everyone agrees that the plane flew South and Reca is an absurd suspect.. Not everyone is a shill, there have been a few.. and you can advocate for a suspect without being a shill.

If you believe there is a massive conspiracy to cover up for the plane flying East instead of South then you've already failed... and rejected logic and reason.

you have the flight path wrong..

you have the airplane door wrong..

you have the distance to the LZ and Cle Elum wrong..

you have a suspect narrative with no evidence..

you have a suspect that doesn't match the suspect description..

and you expect success... well, good luck

 

It is all yours go ahead.. lay out all your evidence..

[CooperNWO305 151]

11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

On Reddit Carr is mocking the claim of a Cooper suspect involved in the Bay of Pigs and a CIA operative..

Unfortunately Carr is wrong.... again. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbcooper/comments/wx43sx/additional_clues_on_db_coopers_identity/

His name is Bradley Earl Ayers. He was investigated by the FBI but both stews rejected his image.

last line in FBI doc

"who apparently participated in the Bay of Pigs Invasion and other CIA sponsored activities."

Here is a rabbit hole for somebody to go down..

 

CIA files on Ayers..

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/4178918/CIA-OP-FILES-ON-BRADLEY-EARL-AYERS.pdf

 

and regarding Flo, she was hounded by somebody trying to prove the Cooper suspect Coffelt was Cooper, somebody he was in prison with claimed he was Cooper, so perhaps the two "suspects" got conflated in the story. It isn't clear..

Which user is Carr on that Reddit post? I did not realize he had posted there.

[CooperNWO305 151]

11 hours ago, Slim King said:

Good... I suggest you get out of my way and quit attacking me while I apply logic and reason to the information provided. My goal is to provide some success to this inquiry rather than failure. I intent to be skeptical of everything until it is proven. Sounds to me that you think everyone is a shill and troll who doesn't agree with you.

If you're interested in Recca, then by all means have at it.  But if you're interested in the case as a whole, there is not enough time in the day to go down the Recca rabbit hole and research the many other aspects of the case.  

[FLYJACK 711]

31 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

If you're interested in Recca, then by all means have at it.  But if you're interested in the case as a whole, there is not enough time in the day to go down the Recca rabbit hole and research the many other aspects of the case.  

Yes, if Mr Slim King wants to advocate for a suspect that's all good, but it is dishonest to present no evidence, uber-crazy speculation and misinformation..  we are far too knowledgable on the case here to fall for that nonsense.

 

[FLYJACK 711]

16 minutes ago, Slim King said:

If you haven't noticed, I'm looking into the flight path. It's the number one thing that would exclude Peca. Instead of finding massive evidence to support V23 I find NO BLACK BOXES being released. I find no radar data BEING RELEASED. With about 100,000 hunters searching the area every year for over 50 years  I find NO EVIDENCE . The Cooper Vortex podcast has interviews with Joe Koenig, Vern Jones, Lisa Story, and several others that support the theory that the Flight Path was the invention of the FBI and is Not Correct.....

Then Joe Koenig, Vern Jones and Lisa Story are wrong..

If you can't find any evidence for the flightpath then you aren't looking in the right place.

Start here..

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper ?b_start:int=40

Let us know when you have finished reading...

Edited August 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[JAGdb 89]

Only thing I would add to this would be to hold the Reca team and their story to the same standard regarding evidence.   As far as I know, they have produced no hard evidence to support their extraordinary claims.  Their story deviates drastically from what the generally accepted details are in this case.  The amount of people that would have to stay on script to cover up a flight path and drop zone deviation of this magnitude without slipping up or talking makes it highly unlikely.  And it would take not only law enforcement and intelligence people, it would require civilians (pilots and stewardesses, FAA radar operators, the passengers on the plane), to go along with whatever the cover up is.  

Make no mistake, everyone here is frustrated that things like the data from the flight data recorder or the data that the air force used (SAGE radar) has not been made public, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the plane went 100 miles to the east.  

[FLYJACK 711]

4 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

Only thing I would add to this would be to hold the Reca team and their story to the same standard regarding evidence.   As far as I know, they have produced no hard evidence to support their extraordinary claims.  Their story deviates drastically from what the generally accepted details are in this case.  The amount of people that would have to stay on script to cover up a flight path and drop zone deviation of this magnitude without slipping up or talking makes it highly unlikely.  And it would take not only law enforcement and intelligence people, it would require civilians (pilots and stewardesses, FAA radar operators, the passengers on the plane), to go along with whatever the cover up is.  

Make no mistake, everyone here is frustrated that things like the data from the flight data recorder or the data that the air force used (SAGE radar) has not been made public, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the plane went 100 miles to the east.  

The primary Sage computer data had to be converted to GEOREF by the Air Force to make a map,, that data was used to plot the points on the "FBI" map... those plotted points are data.

They later went back to the AF and were able to use a more modern method of conversion which reduced the error from 1 mile to 0.5 miles.. but it was virtually the same.. they very slightly altered their search area.

You have,,

305 crew

Chase plane COMMS and pilots

multiple ATC contacts and tracking

the crew COMMS

Ground COMMS

Air Force

NWA

There is no way the plane went East. Claiming a massive conspiracy is just a way to cover for Carl Laurin's error and bogus story..

 

[FLYJACK 711]

305 was not on autopilot, the plane was flying super dirty,, it would not be appropriate.

Ratazcak changed the flap settings and when Cooper was having problems with the stairs right before jumping he adjusted the level and speed... that confirms he was manually flying the plane as he stated. Further, Ratazcak felt Cooper on the stairs..

The statements in the FBI files by an agent about it being on auto pilot were very early Dec 2/71.

 

Yes, it matters because some are trying to claim Ratazcak did not feel Cooper on the stairs because it was on autopilot.. and therefore Cooper jumped further South.

He did feel Cooper, he was flying it manually and Cooper did not jump further South.

Edited August 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 711]

5 minutes ago, Slim King said:

FANTASTIC... Now you claim that the FBI has told a lie. That's exactly what I've been saying all along!!!!!

oh brother,, it wasn't a lie, it wasn't from the FBI if you actually read and understood the evidence.

They stated what they were told by somebody at NWA who was likely assuming..

 

 

[FLYJACK 711]

1 hour ago, Slim King said:

Disseminating false information then.....

Wrong again, it wasn't disseminated it was an internal communication between offices.. one agent was passing on what he heard from somebody at NWA.. it was not a conclusion, a lie or false information from the FBI.

Read the FBI files before you make inaccurate claims..

 

[olemisscub 510]

Just another day in the Vortex. Who needs a Belgian graphic novel when you've got an AMERICAN 1937 pulp novella hero pilot named Dan Cooper? Found this last night. Thank you, thank you. 

 

[FLYJACK 711]

2 minutes ago, Slim King said:

If it wasn't disseminated then how did we get it???????????? rotflmao

Yikes,, sure you aren't Blevin's Florida cousin...

The document was not created to be disseminated, 45 years later a due to a lawsuit it was released. The document was not created to be disseminated and it was part of an investigation, not a conclusion. 

[FLYJACK 711]

29 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Just another day in the Vortex. Who needs a Belgian graphic novel when you've got an AMERICAN 1937 pulp novella hero pilot named Dan Cooper? Found this last night. Thank you, thank you. 

 

That is interesting, Cooper would have been around 10-15 years old at the time.. looks more like an adult piece..

Probably a random coincidence.. but worth looking into more. 

Was the Dan Cooper character in a recurring series of pieces or just the one..

Here is a link to it..

https://ia902905.us.archive.org/28/items/bill-barnes-air-trails-v-07n-04-1937-01/Bill Barnes Air Trails v07n04 [1937-01].pdf

and ironically,, there is an International Correspondence School ad in it... same as the matchbook.. 

 

The "Air Trails" publication ran for roughly 10 years and was reprinted in Canada..

http://www.philsp.com/mags/air_trails.html

Edited August 27, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

19 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

That is interesting, Cooper would have been around 10-15 years old at the time.. looks more like an adult piece..

Probably a random coincidence.. but worth looking into more. 

Was the Dan Cooper character in a recurring series of pieces or just the one..

Here is a link to it..

https://ia902905.us.archive.org/28/items/bill-barnes-air-trails-v-07n-04-1937-01/Bill Barnes Air Trails v07n04 [1937-01].pdf

and ironically,, there is an International Correspondence School ad in it... same as the matchbook.. 

 

 

Coincidence or not, it's infinitely more likely to be the inspiration for our middle aged man's alias than a Belgian graphic novel, that's for sure. 

[FLYJACK 711]

30 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

 

Coincidence or not, it's infinitely more likely to be the inspiration for our middle aged man's alias than a Belgian graphic novel, that's for sure. 

Not necessarily, everyone is focussed on the French angle but the Dan Cooper comic was also published in Mexico, in Spanish for Latin America..  Cooper was described as swarthy and Latin American.. plus his demand was to fly to Mexico... 

but, I still think the name is a random coincidence..  we will never be able to find any connection beyond speculation.

It is still interesting..

Here is an article on the publication, it was out of NY,

https://thepulp.net/pulp-articles/i-flew-with-bill-barnes/

I am still trying to figure out if Dan Cooper was a character in only one edition or an ongoing character.. it looks like only that one issue.

Edited August 27, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

12 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Not necessarily, everyone is focussed on the French angle but the Dan Cooper comic was also published in Mexico, in Spanish for Latin America..  Cooper was described as swarthy and Latin American.. plus his demand was to fly to Mexico... 

but, I still think the name is a random coincidence..  we will never be able to find any connection beyond speculation.

It is still interesting..

Here is an article on the publication, it was out of NY,

https://thepulp.net/pulp-articles/i-flew-with-bill-barnes/

I am still trying to figure out if Dan Cooper was a character in only one edition or an ongoing character..

This Dan Cooper character was a one-off. 

[FLYJACK 711]

3 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

This Dan Cooper character was a one-off. 

Yes, I found other issues.. 

A character's name in a single article about an aviator, not a jumper like the comic and being used 34 years later sounds like a real stretch..  

but I think the comic is a stretch as well..

[FLYJACK 711]

This ad is hilarious...

A fake bomb you wire into a car for fun.... DOES NOT HARM THE CAR

Today, you get cancelled on social media or fired for telling the truth.

[olemisscub 510]

25 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Yes, I found other issues.. 

A character's name in a single article about an aviator, not a jumper like the comic and being used 34 years later sounds like a real stretch..  

but I think the comic is a stretch as well..

According to Find A Grave, there are less than 500 Dan or Daniel Cooper's listed on there if you do a search for graves of people born before 1950. That's not scientific but I don't think Dan Cooper is as popular a name as people might think it is. 

I'm a former prosecutor and current defense attorney. Most aliases are either extremely generic "John Smith" types or they are fictional characters like "Walter White" or "Michael Scott".

Media was extremely scarce during the depression. Someone who possessed this magazine would have read and re-read it countless times. Also, if you were to read the novella the author uses the name "Dan Cooper" as a gimmick. The entire story it's "Dan Cooper" punched the guy in the face or "Dan Cooper" laughed a sigh of relief. 

I think it's far more likely that if the name "Dan Cooper" WERE an alias based on a fictional character (and not based on an old friend or something) that it would be based on this character from the era of Cooper's childhood as opposed to some Belgian graphic novel that would have come out while he was an adult. It'd be like if you were to use an alias based on your favorite movie as a kid or something. People retain pop culture information far easier as children than they do as adults before life catches up to them. 

I don't think it matters that it isn't about skydiving. We know Cooper was knowledgeable about aviation. This was an aviation magazine. 

I think it's a bit interesting perhaps that the page right before the novella begins has this harrowing parachute rescue. Osmosis perhaps?

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 510]

Flyjack, have you seen this 302 where this Cooper witness says Hahneman in no way resembles Cooper? Do you know which witness this would be?