DB Cooper

[georger 244]

Who separated the bills ?

[FLYJACK 702]

1 hour ago, georger said:

Who separated the bills ?

FBI lab..

[dudeman17 340]

3 hours ago, georger said:

Who separated the bills ?

Umm...

On 9/9/2022 at 8:22 PM, georger said:

Spent an hour talking to one agent this afternoon...   I asked: "tell me exactly how the twelve groups  turned in by the Ingrams got separated into single bills and placed in evidence folders, who did that ...." ?  "Was done by the Lab, submitted by the case manager in Seattle.... must have been a huge job ... they may have farmed it out to the Treasury Lab .... but everything came back to Seattle in folders ..... maybe took a month .... was told it was 'one helluva a job!'

??   Did I miss something?

[georger 244]

5 hours ago, Slim King said:

Why weren't the separated 4 bills treated differently? It's two separate events.

Because they arrived later via Crystal Ingram, and were sent to the Lab separately. How and why did the Ingrams manage to separate four bills while not the rest? 

Edited September 12, 2022 by georger

[georger 244]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

FBI lab..

Have we seen the "separate Lab report" ?  To whom was it sent? Seattle or Portland ? Why is Portland sending the money to the Lab and not Seattle? Seattle has jurisdiction. There is more to this story but its unresolved... This 302 does seem to establish it was the Lab who did the separating. What techniques/technology was used to separate the bills ... ?  Any rubber band remnants found and inspected ? 

Edited September 12, 2022 by georger

[JAGdb 89]

On 9/11/2022 at 11:16 PM, georger said:

Because they arrived later via Crystal Ingram, and were sent to the Lab separately. How and why did the Ingrams manage to separate four bills while not the rest? 

This got me thinking, which bills were top or bottom bills.  As discussed on here before, I believe they knew which were top and bottom based on the serial numbers and order thereof right ?  I would think that these Crystal bills or perhaps any other Ingram separated bills more likely came from either the top or bottom....although, since they were already separated into 12 stacks, it's possible that they came from middle.

I guess where I am going with this, it would have been nice for TK/CS to request a top or bottom bill for his SEM work on the money.  Would that reveal consistent findings with that of 377s bill or would it potentially reveal a curve ball ?  Could there have been evidence via microscopic residue of rubber bands which might help clarify the question of rubber bands and how many? 

Before TK/CS tested 377s bill, he had conducted tests on other Tena Bar money, do we have the serial number of those bill(s) and if we have the order of the bills, can we determine where they were in the packets ? 

[FLYJACK 702]

3 hours ago, JAGdb said:

This got me thinking, which bills were top or bottom bills.  As discussed on here before, I believe they knew which were top and bottom based on the serial numbers and order thereof right ?  I would think that these Crystal bills or perhaps any other Ingram separated bills more likely came from either the top or bottom....although, since they were already separated into 12 stacks, it's possible that they came from middle.

I guess where I am going with this, it would have been nice for TK/CS to request a top or bottom bill for his SEM work on the money.  Would that reveal consistent findings with that of 377s bill or would it potentially reveal a curve ball ?  Could there have been evidence via microscopic residue of rubber bands which might help clarify the question of rubber bands and how many? 

Before TK/CS tested 377s bill, he had conducted tests on other Tena Bar money, do we have the serial number of those bill(s) and if we have the order of the bills, can we determine where they were in the packets ? 

Valid points.. we don't have the original bill order so we can't know which ones were on the top/bottom of the packets.

These are the 4 bills from Crystal, these are photocopies I found images of one of them,, they were fully tested by the FBI..

 

top bill is one of the four..

 

[georger 244]

5 hours ago, JAGdb said:

This got me thinking, which bills were top or bottom bills.  As discussed on here before, I believe they knew which were top and bottom based on the serial numbers and order thereof right ?  I would think that these Crystal bills or perhaps any other Ingram separated bills more likely came from either the top or bottom....although, since they were already separated into 12 stacks, it's possible that they came from middle.

I guess where I am going with this, it would have been nice for TK/CS to request a top or bottom bill for his SEM work on the money.  Would that reveal consistent findings with that of 377s bill or would it potentially reveal a curve ball ?  Could there have been evidence via microscopic residue of rubber bands which might help clarify the question of rubber bands and how many? 

Before TK/CS tested 377s bill, he had conducted tests on other Tena Bar money, do we have the serial number of those bill(s) and if we have the order of the bills, can we determine where they were in the packets ? 

Here are TK's original three bills -

[FLYJACK 702]

Hair slide was sent to Seattle from LA in 2002.. Vol 6, 1A56...

Get Larry to call..

[ParrotheadVol 70]

2 hours ago, Slim King said:

HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOMBSHELL........ And as far as the bills go ... My theory is that there was $6000. Three strapped bundles of 100.Where are the rest of the twenties from that batch?

You familiar with shards / fragments???

[georger 244]

49 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Yes ....Shards are the edges of the bills that fall off. Also small holes ... there are very few shards and if you look you'll see the method that was used to dig up the beach. Only a few in each baggie. Surprisingly few. As I saw the pictures of them digging it appears to be impossible to tell where they exactly came from. Not that meticulous. I do not believe that these 10 bills just totally dissolved into shards while the others remained intact.  On the flip side the HAIR SAMPLES!!!! A lot can be discovered from hair samples. Where is all of that evidence?

Tell us all about it! 

[JAGdb 89]

16 hours ago, georger said:

Here are TK's original three bills -

Thanks G, did you or anyone else notice that the 3rd bill doesn't appear to have matching serial numbers (lower left and upper right) ?  Guessing that the right side of this bill is the top of another bill that was on top of this bill and still stuck to it ?

[JAGdb 89]

17 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Valid points.. we don't have the original bill order so we can't know which ones were on the top/bottom of the packets.

These are the 4 bills from Crystal, these are photocopies I found images of one of them,, they were fully tested by the FBI..

 

top bill is one of the four..

 

Thanks Fly...so the original order of the bills was never released, but they (the FBI), has that original order correct ?

[FLYJACK 702]

57 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

Thanks Fly...so the original order of the bills was never released, but they (the FBI), has that original order correct ?

Yes, the bill list that was released by the FBI was re-ordered alpha numerically.

The FBI manually created the original list from the Microfilm.

That original bill order has never been publicly released. Tom couldn't find it.

There were statements from the FBI that the TBAR bills were in the same order as given to Cooper...

[ParrotheadVol 70]

12 hours ago, Slim King said:

Yes ....Shards are the edges of the bills that fall off. Also small holes ... there are very few shards and if you look you'll see the method that was used to dig up the beach. Only a few in each baggie. Surprisingly few. As I saw the pictures of them digging it appears to be impossible to tell where they exactly came from. Not that meticulous. I do not believe that these 10 bills just totally dissolved into shards while the others remained intact.  On the flip side the HAIR SAMPLES!!!! A lot can be discovered from hair samples. Where is all of that evidence?

Georger can correct me if I'm wrong here as he has a better knowledge of the fragments that were found than I do, but I have never heard them described as "very few" or "surprisingly few".  

[FLYJACK 702]

7 minutes ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Georger can correct me if I'm wrong here as he has a better knowledge of the fragments that were found than I do, but I have never heard them described as "very few" or "surprisingly few".  

SK is a Reca shill and trolling the forum repeatedly posting false claims and misinformation..

[JAGdb 89]

16 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Hair slide was sent to Seattle from LA in 2002.. Vol 6, 1A56...

Get Larry to call..

Now there were two hair samples collected, one on the head cloth of the seat and the other maybe on the arm rest ?  

[FLYJACK 702]

12 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

Now there were two hair samples collected, one on the head cloth of the seat and the other maybe on the arm rest ?  

Yes, one from the headrest "towel" and an arm hair... may not even be Cooper's but in 2016 all the evidence in Seattle was sent to FBI back east..

If they find it, the hair is a long shot, they need a root on it to get DNA.. if it is Cooper's..

The arm hair was not valuable.. the towel hair was mounted on the glass slide.

Edited September 14, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 702]

21 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Why the constant name calling? I post real information that is 100% truthful to the best of my knowledge. No person is perfect. As far as the shredded bills go ... They published photos of them. Not enough to fill a small baggie. Carr said that Las Vegas lost the hair. Now it seems Seattle misplaced the evidence. What a dance. Who was held accountable?

No, you post misinformation and wild conjecture to create doubt... to support Reca.

The recent flight path you repeatedly posted and claimed went East to Cle Elum doesn't even come close... it isn't just irrelevant to the Norjak flight path, your claim is 100% false and misinformation, just like the Reca narrative.

Did you accept your error,, no,, you just move on to another piece of nonsense.

This forum is trying to find the truth, you are not.

Reca was not Cooper,, Carl researched the case and fed Reca info, but Carl is a terrible researcher and got too many things wrong..

The Reca narrative is BS, everybody knows it.

[georger 244]

3 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

Georger can correct me if I'm wrong here as he has a better knowledge of the fragments that were found than I do, but I have never heard them described as "very few" or "surprisingly few".  

Correct. Schreuder said there were "thousands". Beyond that I dont know - I wasnt there. And, these frags were in the area Crystal Ingram identified as the true area where the kids found the money, vs. Harold's version. Ckret is aware of this conflict, if he recalls ... 

The story I have is there was no practical way to recover all of these small fragments short of a full-fledged archaeological excavation, and nobody had the time or money for that! These fragments were in a large area stretching north-south but appx 20ft west (below) Harold's location closer to the water line .... but it was Harold (not Crystal) who was taken out to TBar to identify the find location, they drove a stake at that location. Schreuder was not present for that; he and another arrived later and marked out a 20 yd grid based on the stake already marking Harold's Ingram find location. All of this is detailed in the FBI files Tom and I were given by Ckret ... no 302 I have seen released to date covers any of this information ?  

Ckret released these files to Tom, and Tom provided me with a copy, Since Ckret was also working with Geof Gray at the time, he may have provided Gray with the same materials?  I am not aware if Gray ever tried to assemble a science team or what materials Ckret provided Gray. Gray's whole status in the Cooper case has always been very murky to me.    

Edited September 14, 2022 by georger

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Yes, one from the headrest "towel" and an arm hair... may not even be Cooper's but in 2016 all the evidence in Seattle was sent to FBI back east..

If they find it, the hair is a long shot, they need a root on it to get DNA.. if it is Cooper's..

The arm hair was not valuable.. the towel hair was mounted on the glass slide.

Already dug into this and apparently according to Larry Carr he found this hair slide in Seattle before he retired and it was that of another known individual (POI) that was sent in for comparison. To me that make sense because I couldn’t understand why coopers hair would be at the LA office to begin with. 

[georger 244]

10 minutes ago, Slim King said:

In the last few years there has been at least three books supporting Reca ... So I guess when you say "Everybody Knows it" ....You aren't being truthful. Another Reca book is on it's way as we speak. People no longer believe the FBI and the red herrings it seems.

and a 40 remakes of 'Josephine and the Three Dwarfs' is also on the way - - - - - - - who cares!   

[georger 244]

1 hour ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Already dug into this and apparently according to Larry Carr he found this hair slide in Seattle before he retired and it was that of another known individual (POI) that was sent in for comparison. To me that make sense because I couldn’t understand why coopers hair would be at the LA office to begin with. 

That dates Dec 9 1971.   Hair analysis has changed and evolved since then!

[georger 244]

2 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Just stating the FACTS that we all love. Do you have a link to The 40th  Josephine movie or is it just a delusion?

Its not a delusion that you are wasting our time about it reiht now!

Edited September 14, 2022 by georger

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

41 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Did you not listen to Larry Carr's recent interview on The Cooper Vortex? In it he said they LOST the hairs.

Yes and I talk to Larry on the Facebook group. He is admittedly not as well read on the 302’s as he should be. He was just guessing that it could still be around and saying if it’s going to be anywhere it be in Vegas. With the 302 that gave permission for destruction upon the conclusion of its examination and the fact that it never turned up in evidence despite a search in the early two thousand by a seattle case agent who’s name escapes  me at the moment and then one by Larry more recently, I think we can deduce the hair was destroyed with the butts in Vegas.