DB Cooper

[georger 244]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

From the conversation, they hadn't split up the money yet..

Then this isnt what I thought it was .... what's the date of the video ?  All it says is " Old news media archive footage story" .   ????

Edited September 25, 2022 by georger

[FLYJACK 711]

12 minutes ago, georger said:

Then this isnt what I thought it was .... what's the date of the video ?  All it says is " Old news media archive footage story" .   ????

Can't confirm date but I'd guess 1985 based on the guy mentioning an article 5 years prior (1980). 

Money was split up in 1986.

[FLYJACK 711]

Old news video I found...  interesting, note the stick marking the money find spot looks about 30 ft from the water and about 3-4 ft above waterline.. also shows several large pieces of money found..

  Edited September 25, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 711]

Another one..

 

 

[gggumdrops 2]

Hi there, and pardon the interruption. If you don’t mind I have a theory I’d like to share and hopefully if your interested you might continue to investigate?

Did you know that in 1972 William Bradford Bishop Jr. (wanted by the FBI for murdering his family in 1976) began asking Doctors for pain medication for an undiagnosed back condition? He then moved to Botswana where he continued to ask for pain medication only now he’s failing to mention his previous requests in the US.

Why is that interesting?

Swarthy complexion 

35 years of age (in Nov of 1971)

6’1”

180lbs

Amateur pilot 

(Seemingly) plenty of experience with commercial flight

Had previously served with the US Army

French speaking

Foreign diplomat stationed in Europe just prior to 1971

Very fit 

Avid Outdoorsman 

In 1971 he stopped writing in his diary where he wrote of psychosis, of “standing on the threshold” and of “sawing to the heights and plummeted each time to the depths”. 

Not only was he likely in a position of purchasing and reading the French language Dan Cooper comics, he also had children the appropriate age and gender to be buying them for.

In 1971 he stopped attending UCLA and moved his family back to Washington, D.C. placing him on the east coast. At first this seems to work against him having been D.B..Cooper, however if you consider that he may have wanted to hide his escapades from his family then it might have been essential.

He ticks EVERY box and then asks for “back pain” medication following the hijacking!

I don’t need confirmation from Tina Mucklow to confirm my suspicions, however I think it’d be crazy if she weren’t asked.

I’m not an expert on either case I’ve just watched a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple of articles. It’s all second hand information and I’ve probably made mistakes, however I’m capable of putting 2 and 2 together and am without doubt that if you investigate further you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. I posted this on webslueths but didn’t get any love, I’m really just hoping to pass this on to Larry Carr or anyone with the necessary expertise to better judge.

Cheers.

[olemisscub 510]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:25 AM, FLYJACK said:

 

So, Tina must be being deceitful when she said she didn't see his face,, and that means she is protecting Cooper for some reason...  and no I don't think she was involved or knew him prior.

 

You jumped on my butt for suggesting something similar last week. Glad you've come around to that, haha! My sense was always that Tina just didn't want to be bothered by the whole thing.

Hell, let's list all the times that she may have had a chance to see a frontal view of his face

- the multiple times she walked up and down the aisles of the aircraft

- when she joked about wanting some of the money (surely she wasn't sitting next to him when that occurred. I'm guessing she was standing in the aisle or had sat down in 18-C at that point, but even sitting in 18-C she'd still be looking across the aisle AT him and I doubt he staring straight forward during this incident. 

- when she observed him messing around with the parachutes and cutting the shroud lines, etc. She indicates she was in 18-C at this point so Cooper surely wasn't still stoically facing forward. My guess is that he was in the aisle working with the chutes so he'd have space. 

- when she showed him where the panel was to lower the stairs.

- when she was pleading with him to cut her a shroud line and tie her to a chair, etc.

- when she pleaded with him to take the bomb with him. 

Others?

It really beggars belief that she would make such a claim. As I've said, to me it indicates the desire to not be bothered. At first with Comp A she's like "oh yeah, looks great, just make the sunglasses a little wider and you've got it...see ya!" Then when it's apparent they're going to be making another one she keeps saying "I never really had a great look at him. Can't really offer too much." Both of these answers indicate to me that she didn't want to be hassled about it. Her reasoning? No idea. 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 711]

22 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

You jumped on my butt for suggesting something similar last week. Glad you've come around to that, haha! My sense was always that Tina just didn't want to be bothered by the whole thing.

Hell, let's list all the times that she may have had a chance to see a frontal view of his face

- the multiple times she walked up and down the aisles of the aircraft

- when she joked about wanting some of the money (surely she wasn't sitting next to him when that occurred. I'm guessing she was standing in the aisle or had sat down in 18-C at that point, but even sitting in 18-C she'd still be looking across the aisle AT him and I doubt he staring straight forward during this incident. 

- when she observed him messing around with the parachutes and cutting the shroud lines, etc. She indicates she was in 18-C at this point so Cooper surely wasn't still stoically facing forward. My guess is that he was in the aisle working with the chutes so he'd have space. 

- when she showed him where the panel was to lower the stairs.

- when she was pleading with him to cut her a shroud line and tie her to a chair, etc.

- when she pleaded with him to take the bomb with him. 

Others?

It really beggars belief that she would make such a claim. As I've said, to me it indicates the desire to not be bothered. At first with Comp A she's like "oh yeah, looks great, just make the sunglasses a little wider and you've got it...see ya!" Then when it's apparent they're going to be making another one she keeps saying "I never really had a great look at him. Can't really offer too much." Both of these answers indicate to me that she didn't want to be hassled about it. Her reasoning? No idea. 

 

No, I didn't jump on you for that.. You were discounting Gregory and propping up Tina..  I agree that she is being deceitful.. no way she didn't see his face, she influenced sketch A. I have always said Tina was hiding something..

But, I disagree with the idea that she just didn't want to be bothered, this was too important and she was co-operative for some time. 

The statements that she didn't see his face would decimate any prosecution.. she was the primary witness for the FBI eliminating suspects for years.. everything she said would be tossed. She was the go to witness and her credibility is shot..

The other problem is she was the driver for sketch A and when sketch B came up she wanted to stick to it.. Flo and others did not like sketch A. Tina eventually agreed with the final sketch B..

So, it appears she misled or was vague with the FBI for sketch A, resisted sketch B.. to defend the bad sketch A she falsely claimed she didn't see his face..  to protect Cooper's ID or undermine the investigation for some reason.

 

[Robert99 50]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Old news video I found...  interesting, note the stick marking the money find spot looks about 30 ft from the water and about 3-4 ft above waterline.. also shows several large pieces of money found..

 

 

The water line shown in these videos seems to be the "high tide" water line.  The river water level variation due to the Pacific Ocean tides can be as much as 1.5 to 2.0 feet at Tena Bar.

And the tree line area, where quite a bit of the digging was going on, is several feet above the river water level.  This area has been highly eroded since 1980.   

[FLYJACK 711]

4 hours ago, gggumdrops said:

Hi there, and pardon the interruption. If you don’t mind I have a theory I’d like to share and hopefully if your interested you might continue to investigate?

Did you know that in 1972 William Bradford Bishop Jr. (wanted by the FBI for murdering his family in 1976) began asking Doctors for pain medication for an undiagnosed back condition? He then moved to Botswana where he continued to ask for pain medication only now he’s failing to mention his previous requests in the US.

Why is that interesting?

Swarthy complexion 

35 years of age (in Nov of 1971)

6’1”

180lbs

Amateur pilot 

(Seemingly) plenty of experience with commercial flight

Had previously served with the US Army

French speaking

Foreign diplomat stationed in Europe just prior to 1971

Very fit 

Avid Outdoorsman 

In 1971 he stopped writing in his diary where he wrote of psychosis, of “standing on the threshold” and of “sawing to the heights and plummeted each time to the depths”. 

Not only was he likely in a position of purchasing and reading the French language Dan Cooper comics, he also had children the appropriate age and gender to be buying them for.

In 1971 he stopped attending UCLA and moved his family back to Washington, D.C. placing him on the east coast. At first this seems to work against him having been D.B..Cooper, however if you consider that he may have wanted to hide his escapades from his family then it might have been essential.

He ticks EVERY box and then asks for “back pain” medication following the hijacking!

I don’t need confirmation from Tina Mucklow to confirm my suspicions, however I think it’d be crazy if she weren’t asked.

I’m not an expert on either case I’ve just watched a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple of articles. It’s all second hand information and I’ve probably made mistakes, however I’m capable of putting 2 and 2 together and am without doubt that if you investigate further you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. I posted this on webslueths but didn’t get any love, I’m really just hoping to pass this on to Larry Carr or anyone with the necessary expertise to better judge.

Cheers.

There are thousands of guys that can generally fit the description and basic profile.. you will need much more than that.. and that is where it gets tough.. Carr doesn't participate here, try the facebook forum.

[FLYJACK 711]

40 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

The water line shown in these videos seems to be the "high tide" water line.  The river water level variation due to the Pacific Ocean tides can be as much as 1.5 to 2.0 feet at Tena Bar.

And the tree line area, where quite a bit of the digging was going on, is several feet above the river water level.  This area has been highly eroded since 1980.   

The money spot was at the high water mark, the debris line.. not the same as high tide.

[DFS346 7]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:54 AM, olemisscub said:

Cooper had his glasses off during the whole "hey pick this bag up and see how heavy it is" moment. 

May I ask if the quoted phrase is a reference to the hijacker's "acting childish" when he received the money? And if so, is there any FBI document which contains this phrase?

[olemisscub 510]

18 minutes ago, DFS346 said:

May I ask if the quoted phrase is a reference to the hijacker's "acting childish" when he received the money? And if so, is there any FBI document which contains this phrase?

It all comes from Flo's testimony and yes I think it's more a reference to her being insulted by the "pick up this bag" moment. 

[olemisscub 510]

5 hours ago, gggumdrops said:

Hi there, and pardon the interruption. If you don’t mind I have a theory I’d like to share and hopefully if your interested you might continue to investigate?

Did you know that in 1972 William Bradford Bishop Jr. (wanted by the FBI for murdering his family in 1976) began asking Doctors for pain medication for an undiagnosed back condition? He then moved to Botswana where he continued to ask for pain medication only now he’s failing to mention his previous requests in the US.

Why is that interesting?

Swarthy complexion 

35 years of age (in Nov of 1971)

6’1”

180lbs

Amateur pilot 

(Seemingly) plenty of experience with commercial flight

Had previously served with the US Army

French speaking

Foreign diplomat stationed in Europe just prior to 1971

Very fit 

Avid Outdoorsman 

In 1971 he stopped writing in his diary where he wrote of psychosis, of “standing on the threshold” and of “sawing to the heights and plummeted each time to the depths”. 

Not only was he likely in a position of purchasing and reading the French language Dan Cooper comics, he also had children the appropriate age and gender to be buying them for.

In 1971 he stopped attending UCLA and moved his family back to Washington, D.C. placing him on the east coast. At first this seems to work against him having been D.B..Cooper, however if you consider that he may have wanted to hide his escapades from his family then it might have been essential.

He ticks EVERY box and then asks for “back pain” medication following the hijacking!

I don’t need confirmation from Tina Mucklow to confirm my suspicions, however I think it’d be crazy if she weren’t asked.

I’m not an expert on either case I’ve just watched a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple of articles. It’s all second hand information and I’ve probably made mistakes, however I’m capable of putting 2 and 2 together and am without doubt that if you investigate further you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. I posted this on webslueths but didn’t get any love, I’m really just hoping to pass this on to Larry Carr or anyone with the necessary expertise to better judge.

Cheers.

This chin would be a disqualifier for me. Practically a zero chance that witnesses wouldn't have commented on that huge butt-chin. 

That would certainly be a very noticeable feature and the sketch artist for Cooper, Roy Rose, said in a later interview that Cooper's "protruding lower lip" was the only unique facial feature that anyone told him about regarding Cooper. 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 510]

Alice was a fan of Composite B as well

[FLYJACK 711]

21 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Alice was a fan of Composite B as well

Too many letters, it is only 18 spaces, Mrs. Alice Hancock fits

[Coopericane 44]

If we start imagining the use of middle names and titles wherever it's convenient for us, we could probably get whatever names we want to fit into the redacted spots... we should continue to assume the FBI standard, which seems to be full first and last names... which would happen to be FLORENCE SCHAFFNER in this instance.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Coopericane

[FLYJACK 711]

1 minute ago, Coopericane said:

If we start imagining the use of middle names and titles wherever we please, we can probably get whatever name we want to fit in the redacted spaces... we should assume the FBI standard, which is their full first and last names... which would be FLORENCE SCHAFFNER in this instance.

Florence Schaffner does fit but the report is from Denver and "she" states the forehead is slightly wide.. Alice said that earlier. Both suggest Alice unless we find some other piece..

But, all three stews generally agreed on the final sketch B..

[Coopericane 44]

4 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Florence Schaffner does fit but the report is from Denver and "she" states the forehead is slightly wide.. Alice said that earlier. Both suggest Alice unless we find some other piece..

But, all three stews generally agreed on the final sketch B..

Ok, good points. Using Mrs seems believable too, and the use of middle names might not be as rare as I thought...

Also potentially problematic is the interchangeability of FLO SCHAFFNER and FLORENCE SCHAFFNER...  though I believe they usually referred to her Florence, right?

[FLYJACK 711]

12 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Ok, good points. Using Mrs seems believable too, and the use of middle names might not be as rare as I thought...

Also potentially problematic is the interchangeability of FLO SCHAFFNER and FLORENCE SCHAFFNER...  though I believe they usually referred to her Florence, right?

Different agents write different 302's, so there is no real standard.

The non-redacted Gray files use Mr. and Mrs.

All I know for certain is "Alice Garley Hancock" does not fit that redaction..

Edited September 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

35 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Ok, good points. Using Mrs seems believable too, and the use of middle names might not be as rare as I thought...

Also potentially problematic is the interchangeability of FLO SCHAFFNER and FLORENCE SCHAFFNER...  though I believe they usually referred to her Florence, right?

Garley was her maiden name. They used it for her sometimes and other times not. This is the issue with trying to fill in the redactions. At various times you'll get

Florence Schaffner, Flo Schaffner, Miss Florence Schaffner, Miss Schaffner, Florence, Flo

Tina Mucklow, Tina Ann Mucklow, Miss Tina Mucklow, Miss Mucklow, Tina

Mrs. Alice Garley Hancock, Alice Hanock, Alice Garley Hancock, Mrs. Hancock, Alice

Edited September 26, 2022 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 510]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Too many letters, it is only 18 spaces, Mrs. Alice Hancock fits

I originally tried Mrs and it didn't look right. But I tried again and you're right. 

 

[CooperNWO305 151]

11 hours ago, gggumdrops said:

Hi there, and pardon the interruption. If you don’t mind I have a theory I’d like to share and hopefully if your interested you might continue to investigate?

Did you know that in 1972 William Bradford Bishop Jr. (wanted by the FBI for murdering his family in 1976) began asking Doctors for pain medication for an undiagnosed back condition? He then moved to Botswana where he continued to ask for pain medication only now he’s failing to mention his previous requests in the US.

Why is that interesting?

Swarthy complexion 

35 years of age (in Nov of 1971)

6’1”

180lbs

Amateur pilot 

(Seemingly) plenty of experience with commercial flight

Had previously served with the US Army

French speaking

Foreign diplomat stationed in Europe just prior to 1971

Very fit 

Avid Outdoorsman 

In 1971 he stopped writing in his diary where he wrote of psychosis, of “standing on the threshold” and of “sawing to the heights and plummeted each time to the depths”. 

Not only was he likely in a position of purchasing and reading the French language Dan Cooper comics, he also had children the appropriate age and gender to be buying them for.

In 1971 he stopped attending UCLA and moved his family back to Washington, D.C. placing him on the east coast. At first this seems to work against him having been D.B..Cooper, however if you consider that he may have wanted to hide his escapades from his family then it might have been essential.

He ticks EVERY box and then asks for “back pain” medication following the hijacking!

I don’t need confirmation from Tina Mucklow to confirm my suspicions, however I think it’d be crazy if she weren’t asked.

I’m not an expert on either case I’ve just watched a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple of articles. It’s all second hand information and I’ve probably made mistakes, however I’m capable of putting 2 and 2 together and am without doubt that if you investigate further you won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. I posted this on webslueths but didn’t get any love, I’m really just hoping to pass this on to Larry Carr or anyone with the necessary expertise to better judge.

Cheers.

Medication requests could be a good indicator of something. Being from far away is not a disqualifier. I find it hard to believe that the hijacker was from or lived in Portland or Seattle after the hijacking. Even to this day that area is inundated with news stories and info about the hijacking. The belief that this guy hijacked a plane and then went about going to work in the same area is a big stretch. 
 

As for your suspect. Keep digging. You never know. 35 seems young. And if the comic book was not connected then everyone who uses it as a connection is wasting their time. 

[georger 244]

39 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Medication requests could be a good indicator of something. Being from far away is not a disqualifier. I find it hard to believe that the hijacker was from or lived in Portland or Seattle after the hijacking. Even to this day that area is inundated with news stories and info about the hijacking. The belief that this guy hijacked a plane and then went about going to work in the same area is a big stretch. 
 

As for your suspect. Keep digging. You never know. 35 seems young. And if the comic book was not connected then everyone who uses it as a connection is wasting their time. 

simple: submit his dna and his prints. Something actionable otherwise this is just one more phantom.

Edited September 26, 2022 by georger

[FLYJACK 711]

Some people need to discredit Rataczak and Soderlind to move Cooper's LZ south.... not happening.

Cooper jumped minutes before the call to Soderlind in the suburbs of Portland,, Soderlind was listening in and taking notes. He used those notes to establish Cooper's LZ.. He also used the FDR data including heading..

Rataczak was consistent..

  Edited September 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[georger 244]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Some people need to discredit Rataczak and Soderlind to move Cooper's LZ south.... not happening.

Cooper jumped minutes before the call to Soderlind in the suburbs of Portland,, Soderlind was listening in and taking notes. He used those notes to establish Cooper's LZ.. He also used the FDR data including heading..

Rataczak was consistent..

 

 

I gather the same author of a 'Columbia LZ' is trying to 'merge' the Zodiak and Cooper cases ?  Why?  I fail to see what these cases have in common ?

Edited September 26, 2022 by georger