DB Cooper

[Jay Ritchie 3]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:09 AM, FLYJACK said:

This is interesting, there was an airplane extortion for $25,000 claiming a bomb would go off if a plane dropped below 10,000 ft. The plane was Seattle bound and the extortion in $20's was paid in Anchorage. The guy got caught in Portland when a bill showed up in a bank. That bill was tracked back to a German mechanic in Portland.. I had researched this case before and know that the rest of the money was not recovered.

I find the date (August 1970) really interesting. Have you come across any similar crimes in the years prior to Cooper?

I have wondered what started to give him the idea. Paul Cini mentioned hearing of someone hijacking a plane and demanding money which inspired him to think of parachuting. Apparently he saw this on a tv show in September 1970.

The likeliest crime I could see to link with the one which inspired Cini was Arthur Barkley in June 1970. James Bennett (May 1971) was the only other skyjacking for money I could find pre-Cooper which might have provoked the thought. Interestingly both were reported to have hijacked 727s.

I'd be interested to learn of any extortion events. If nothing else they establish that airlines would pay ransom demands, and that Cooper could have learned this readily easily.

[FLYJACK 702]

1 hour ago, Jay Ritchie said:

I find the date (August 1970) really interesting. Have you come across any similar crimes in the years prior to Cooper?

I have wondered what started to give him the idea. Paul Cini mentioned hearing of someone hijacking a plane and demanding money which inspired him to think of parachuting. Apparently he saw this on a tv show in September 1970.

The likeliest crime I could see to link with the one which inspired Cini was Arthur Barkley in June 1970. James Bennett (May 1971) was the only other skyjacking for money I could find pre-Cooper which might have provoked the thought. Interestingly both were reported to have hijacked 727s.

I'd be interested to learn of any extortion events. If nothing else they establish that airlines would pay ransom demands, and that Cooper could have learned this readily easily.

There was the famous Quantas bomb hoax in Australia... May 1971.. it is in the FBI files as well..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-23/qantas-bomb-hoax-1971-the-great-plane-robbery-australia/10807510

These things may not be exact copies but a logical advancement... 

Cini..

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

 

On 10/13/2022 at 8:58 PM, FLYJACK said:

anybody ever find this,, first big spread on Cooper

LA Times West Magazine March 19, 1972

 

 

Where does that come from because it's incorrect. I've looked at the table of contents for almost all of the West Mags for 72 (the last year of the mag) and nothing about Coop. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 702]

24 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

 

Where does that come from because it's incorrect. I've looked at the table of contents for almost all of the West Mags for 72 (the last year of the mag) and nothing about Coop. 

 

 

It is in the FBI files part 43 p 172

also talk about here..

 

[olemisscub 510]

It was never published. Glad I wasted a couple hours this morning looking for something that didn't exist, lol. 

 

[Math of Insects 98]

40 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

It was never published. Glad I wasted a couple hours this morning looking for something that didn't exist, lol. 

 

I did find it strange that even the title or keyword didn't bring anything up. 

[georger 244]

I want to know why Carr thinks Cooper perished in the jump. He seems insistent on this. Is it because Carr has some piece of evidence nobody else has, or just a general feeling on Carr's part that Cooper was 'incompetent' and a 'novice' ? Carr has read files and talked to a lot of people and he comes out of that still insisting Cooper died in the jump. I want to know why in specific terms, if Carr can explain it.  

It's my impression that the vast majority of people with real credentials in this matter, don't share Carr's opinion. Am I wrong about that?

Edited October 16, 2022 by georger

[FLYJACK 702]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

It was never published. Glad I wasted a couple hours this morning looking for something that didn't exist, lol. 

 

Must have been published, it is cited in 1980 by the Seattle Times,, maybe the date is wrong.

Edited October 16, 2022 by FLYJACK

[Math of Insects 98]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Must have been published, it is cited in 1980 by the Seattle Times,, maybe the date is wrong.

The FBI files say the article is upcoming, which would have been true at the time.

The Times article says it got all the way to the layout stage, but was then pulled at the last minute. 

[Andrade1812 51]

1 hour ago, georger said:

I want to know why Carr thinks Cooper perished in the jump. He seems insistent on this. Is it because Carr has some piece of evidence nobody else has, or just a general feeling on Carr's part that Cooper was 'incompetent' and a 'novice' ? Carr has read files and talked to a lot of people and he comes out of that still insisting Cooper died in the jump. I want to know why in specific terms, if Carr can explain it.  

It's my impression that the vast majority of people with real credentials in this matter, don't share Carr's opinion. Am I wrong about that?

Based on Carr's interviews on the Cooper Facebook page, it appears his confidence in a no-pull is based entirely on his interactions with Cossey.

[Robert99 50]

1 hour ago, georger said:

I want to know why Carr thinks Cooper perished in the jump. He seems insistent on this. Is it because Carr has some piece of evidence nobody else has, or just a general feeling on Carr's part that Cooper was 'incompetent' and a 'novice' ? Carr has read files and talked to a lot of people and he comes out of that still insisting Cooper died in the jump. I want to know why in specific terms, if Carr can explain it.  

It's my impression that the vast majority of people with real credentials in this matter, don't share Carr's opinion. Am I wrong about that?

Yes, you are wrong about that.

[olemisscub 510]

1 hour ago, georger said:

I want to know why Carr thinks Cooper perished in the jump. He seems insistent on this. Is it because Carr has some piece of evidence nobody else has, or just a general feeling on Carr's part that Cooper was 'incompetent' and a 'novice' ? Carr has read files and talked to a lot of people and he comes out of that still insisting Cooper died in the jump. I want to know why in specific terms, if Carr can explain it.  

It's my impression that the vast majority of people with real credentials in this matter, don't share Carr's opinion. Am I wrong about that?

He doesn't want to admit he was wrong. He must have that personality trait. When he first got the case in 2007 and was giving his interviews trying to reinvigorate the case, he said many things which have been proven untrue. He has a bunch of quotes I'm currently trying to undo on the Wikipedia page; stuff he said about Cooper wearing loafers and Cooper choosing an older model parachute over a newer fancier one or Cooper jumping in a storm or Cooper jumping with a dummy reserve parachute or Cooper jumping into a remote wilderness where he would have to possess survival skills to escape, etc.

But ultimately I think he doesn't want to admit the stuff he said about Cooper dying was in error. So he's basically married to his "100% No Pull" mantra at this point.  

[olemisscub 510]

5 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Based on Carr's interviews on the Cooper Facebook page, it appears his confidence in a no-pull is based entirely on his interactions with Cossey.

Which is ironic because Cossey's original statements in the 302's all indicate his belief that Cooper lived, but maybe with a sprained ankle or something. 

[Andrade1812 51]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Yes, you are wrong about that.

It's weird, I used to feel like one of the few who thought Cooper's survival was possible, and now it seems like it's flipped where it's unusual to find someone adamant about a no-pull.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Andrade1812

[dudeman17 340]

4 hours ago, georger said:

I want to know why Carr thinks Cooper perished in the jump. He seems insistent on this. Is it because Carr has some piece of evidence nobody else has, or just a general feeling on Carr's part that Cooper was 'incompetent' and a 'novice' ? Carr has read files and talked to a lot of people and he comes out of that still insisting Cooper died in the jump. I want to know why in specific terms, if Carr can explain it.  

It's my impression that the vast majority of people with real credentials in this matter, don't share Carr's opinion. Am I wrong about that?

I'll re-state my opinion here. In my 30-plus years of dealing with first-time jumpers, my educated guess is that Cooper pulls the ripcord. With pretty much any parachute, but especially with a rigger-packed emergency chute, if he pulls he all but assuredly gets under an open canopy, regardless of his body position. This is consistent with Andrade's research on WWII bailouts.

However, with a basic round parachute over possibly inhospitable terrain, there is the possibility of his getting injured on landing and being unable to hike out. The likelihood of that would depend on exactly where he jumped and what was the terrain. What is the ratio of rocky hillsides/trees/water below him vs flatter open fields. If he's in an open field, he's probably ok. If he's in worse terrain, he might still be ok, but maybe not.

[georger 244]

6 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Yes, you are wrong about that.

Got any proof ?

[georger 244]

JAG has asked that Dorwin Schreuder be interviewed - I agree!  I am rather sure Dorwin would agree to this - good luck.

Of particular interest should be the fragment field Dorwin and his colleagues found, its exact location relative to the Ingram find, its contents, its location relative to the Ingram find vis Crystal Ingram's statement about where she said the Ingram's found their money, where the fragments went and are currently stored, ............ and any thoughts Dorwin may have about where the Cooper case goes from here...

Edited October 19, 2022 by georger

[JAGdb 89]

14 minutes ago, georger said:

JAG has asked that Dorwin Schreuder be interviewed - I agree!  I am rather sure Dorwin would agree to this - good luck.

Yeah, I've been meaning to ask/suggest him as a possible guest for a while given he has been one of the major sources for the shards.  Maybe he has tried already and didn't work out, we'll see.

[georger 244]

29 minutes ago, JAGdb said:

Yeah, I've been meaning to ask/suggest him as a possible guest for a while given he has been one of the major sources for the shards.  Maybe he has tried already and didn't work out, we'll see.

My impression is, based on years of knowing Dorwin, he has always been open to an interview so it may be long overdue. Others including producers have interviewed Dorwin many times over the years. Time is running out, literally.

Edited October 19, 2022 by georger

[georger 244]

Oh my! Another new artists sketch of DB Cooper. Will it ever end! ?

Total different Cooper look, based on ... read the article on Edward's blog.  

The 'meaner than a skunk genius' look. ?  

Edited October 19, 2022 by georger

[Math of Insects 98]

2 hours ago, georger said:

Oh my! Another new artists sketch of DB Cooper. Will it ever end! ?

Total different Cooper look, based on ... read the article on Edward's blog.  

The 'meaner than a skunk genius' look. ?  

I always knew that Henry Kissinger was the shifty type.

[FLYJACK 702]

4 hours ago, georger said:

Oh my! Another new artists sketch of DB Cooper. Will it ever end! ?

Total different Cooper look, based on ... read the article on Edward's blog.  

The 'meaner than a skunk genius' look. ?  

I really don't understand why Edwards keeps getting this wrong..

Sketch B was not a single sketch, it was a process with witness input that started with KK5-1 and ended with the final sketch B.

Tina rejected the first iteration but agreed with the final one with everybody else..

Edwards completely rejects sketch B based on two errors.

Tina rejected the first iteration vs sketch A but did accept the final iteration of sketch B. (Tina also misled and said she didn't see Cooper face)

KK5-1 was and is the basis for sketch B, it is stated in the FBI files and I have done extensive analysis building a sketch from KK5-1 that closely matches the final sketch B..  Sketch B is based on KK5-1.

[FLYJACK 702]

Himmelsbach book says...  cig stains on fingers.. (FBI files say on right hand)

"Page 54

Tina’s answers were relayed to waiting agents in Portland and Seattle, who now knew that what they had hoped to be a quick-closing case had turned dramatically in favor of Cooper. A profile of the skyjacker, based on the information furnished by witnesses, described a “middle-aged” Caucasian of dark complexion; dark piercing eyes; dark brown hair, of medium length — a businessman’s cut; about 6 feet tall, with a wiry, athletic build; a heavy smoker, who held the cigarette enough so that his fingers were stained; no obvious marks, scars or tatoos. Cooper was dressed in a dark business suit, with a white shirt."

 

"Page 123

One of those boys, the woman said, later went into military service, and after his discharge went through several marriages. She described him as the kind of man who took advantage of women: faithless, he would live off women, use them. His language was coarse, and he was a smoker, a heavy smoker, whose fingers were stained from the curling vapors. He had slender facial features, brown hair, a dark complexion, nearly black, piercing eyes."

 

"Page 14

cigarettes, looking out the window while waiting for Northwest Airlines Flight 305 to arrive. The flight had originated on the east coast, with stops including Minneapolis and Spokane. It was one of the flights referred to by crews as a milk run. Now it was a bit late getting into Portland. Cooper checked his watch frequently, and felt increasing impatience that boarding might be delayed. Once more he went to the pocket of his white shirt and the pack of Raleigh filter tips. He removed the pack from his pocket, and with slight, jerking motions, flipped a butt far enough out of the pack to grasp it with his lips. The match reflected in the large sunglasses as he touched it to the tip of the cigarette."

 

"Page 48

Flight 305 turned southeast at Red Bluff, California, for the final leg of the flight in to Reno. Pilots Scott and Radaczak had flown the airplane by hand the entire trip from Seattle, not wanting to put the craft on automatic pilot. Now, with less than an hour remaining before landing at Reno, they tried once again to make contact with the hijacker."

 

 

"Page 102

“T still believe, and will ‘till my dying day, that his wife was involved with him. I lived that guy. I did years of research about the case before investing my time and money. I believe you have to give the guy credit for some intelligence. You don’t just go down and hijack an airplane, bail out near a freeway without some coordinates lined up — a drop point, so that you can get out of the airplane at a certain point. You’ve got to expect that someone was waiting for him. I believe he was planning to land near Lake Merwin. In fact, I believe he planned to land at Speelyai Bay, where we used to launch the submarine, but the pilot didn’t fly the course that Cooper wanted him to fly. The pilot was hedging on the course, and flying close to the freeway, so that if the thing did go haywire he could get help if he had to crash the airplane."

Edited October 20, 2022 by FLYJACK

[georger 244]

8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I really don't understand why Edwards keeps getting this wrong..

Sketch B was not a single sketch, it was a process with witness input that started with KK5-1 and ended with the final sketch B.

Tina rejected the first iteration but agreed with the final one with everybody else..

Edwards completely rejects sketch B based on two errors.

Tina rejected the first iteration vs sketch A but did accept the final iteration of sketch B. (Tina also misled and said she didn't see Cooper face)

KK5-1 was and is the basis for sketch B, it is stated in the FBI files and I have done extensive analysis building a sketch from KK5-1 that closely matches the final sketch B..  Sketch B is based on KK5-1.

Did Hancock agree with sketch B ?

[JAGdb 89]

Regarding the stained fingers testimony, it doesn't specify which hand -- does that mean both hands were stained ?