DB Cooper

[olemisscub 512]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:35 PM, FLYJACK said:

Flight path is solid.. it was plotted by the Air Force. It has a 1 mile error. The plane was being tracked, including SAGE.

 

This we agree on. I think the only people arguing flight path have an agenda behind their disagreement. 

[Math of Insects 98]

13 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

My thinking Cooper was a lefty was just a personal theory I've had for years (being a lefty myself). Nothing to do with Vordahl. 

Vordahl's grandson can't remember if his grandfather was a lefty or not. In the video clips we managed to grab of him he's drinking right handed and eating left handed. So it really doesn't tell us anything

. 

 

In that grab he even has the Dracula hair.

[FLYJACK 719]

1 hour ago, Math of Insects said:

Personally I wouldn't put too much stock in that one screen cap. It looks at least as likely to be a fleeting microexpression as it does anything "real" and permanent. 

Overall I find Vordahl a good match for the sketches when viewed through the filter of, if someone saw Vordahl, would they describe his features in ways that result in those sketches. As others have noted, he's even a decent match for the Dracula sketch, which would otherwise have seemed to be at odds with the previous ones. 

I could see people trying to describe an issue with the mouth or lower lip and not knowing which words to use. I do think they could see his complexion and try to find a way to describe it that captures that he's darker complected without looking necessarily "dark." That little cut-out of the hairline is notable too. And other features are dead-on matches. Overall he's probably the best match of any current suspects, at least given what we all know about the descriptions. (Fly has indicated there is additional information that might be at odds with the public info.)
I'll put it this way: He's probably as good a match as Petersen is bad.

I'm bothered by how debonair he comes across. That drink gif could be a screen grab from Goodfellas. That's not the vibe I associate with Cooper from the descriptions. 

But for me the match is meaningless without knowing the provenance of the tie or soundness of the data-collection process and results, without knowing if the assumptions made from it are correct, and without putting that guy on that plane for a potential mass-murder/suicide/certain prison mission. I think he deserves to be discussed as a possibility--to the exact same extent that Petersen does not. But until those three very big holes are filled--data plus the presumptions from it plus him undertaking this fool's errand of a caper--he has to be considered "just a guy who sort of matches the pictures, if you ignore his age." If someone uncovers a gambling addiction or mistress he had to pay off or something career-ending he was going to be accused of at work or something, that would at least hint at motive. And even then, it will only matter if the data is sound and the presumptions made from are logical, which we don't know. 

For me he's a fun suspect to consider and involves fewer hoops than Petersen, AKA, the world's most comically incorrect suspect. But the whole case relies on the tie data being correct and reliable, the presumptions made from it being accurate, and him getting on that airplane for what he would have had every reason to assume was his last act as either a free or living man. Those bars haven't been met yet. So he remains tantalizing but meaningless.

That is why I qualified it with "if accurate",, I know a single image can be misleading.. there is no way witnesses missed that lower and lip and jaw...

Though he resembles the composite sketch,, he doesn't fit the witness descriptions of dark, olive, latin, swarthy, Mexican/Native American features and complexion...  I can't see witnesses coming up with those desriptors from those images. To use those descriptors it should be obvious,,

[Robert99 50]

30 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

This we agree on. I think the only people arguing flight path have an agenda behind their disagreement. 

The only agenda for supporting the Western Flight Path, as it is now called, is to fit the facts to the data.  What is your agenda?

[olemisscub 512]

 

Just now, Robert99 said:

The only agenda for supporting the Western Flight Path, as it is now called, is to fit the facts to the data.  What is your agenda?

I don't give a damn where Cooper landed. Flight Path has never been a topic I cared about. 

[georger 247]

Human Genome Finally Completed!  New opportunities for the Cooper case ? 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-scientists-finally-completed-the-human-genomic-puzzle

[Math of Insects 98]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

That is why I qualified it with "if accurate",, I know a single image can be misleading.. there is no way witnesses missed that lower and lip and jaw...

Though he resembles the composite sketch,, he doesn't fit the witness descriptions of dark, olive, latin, swarthy, Mexican/Native American features and complexion...  I can't see witnesses coming up with those desriptors from those images. To use those descriptors it should be obvious,,

I think this is a YMMV thing. To my eye he does, though it's hard to know anything from older photos. However, given the fact that you and I can interpret this differently, that would actually support the idea that some people described Cooper as swarthy and some did not. (I believe he was, or at least appeared so that day.)

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

 

[FLYJACK 719]

4 hours ago, Math of Insects said:

I think this is a YMMV thing. To my eye he does, though it's hard to know anything from older photos. However, given the fact that you and I can interpret this differently, that would actually support the idea that some people described Cooper as swarthy and some did not. (I believe he was, or at least appeared so that day.)

There is no Latin American/Mexican/Native American in any of those photos.. not just the swarthy part,, all of it..  features, characteristics and complexion..

If you see all of those desriptions, then I vehemently disagree,, his skin tone looks a bit darker in the vids but photos/movies from that era are like that.. 

Even with that, there is no way witnesses would describe him as they did..

For witnesses to give a description it would be obvious... 

Latino wasn't used back then,,

So, (Latino)/Mexican/Native American... all similar features.. You see that? No Way.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[Math of Insects 98]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

There is no Latin American/Mexican/Native American in any of those photos.. not just the swarthy part,, all of it..  features, characteristics and complexion..

If you see all of those desriptions, then I vehemently disagree,, his skin tone looks a bit darker in the vids but photos/movies from that era are like that.. 

Even with that, there is no way witnesses would describe him as they did..

For witnesses to give a description it would be obvious... 

Latino wasn't used back then,,

So, (Latino)/Mexican/Native American... all similar features.. You see that? No Way.

 

 

I understand, but wouldn’t that already be in the mix when it came time to create the sketches? Meaning, wouldn’t any implications it had for features be reflected there? I thought it was generally a complexion comment, with people sort of guessing at what might account for the swarthiness, and that his features were as they are in Sketch B. Am I misunderstanding?

[FLYJACK 719]

30 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

I understand, but wouldn’t that already be in the mix when it came time to create the sketches? Meaning, wouldn’t any implications it had for features be reflected there? I thought it was generally a complexion comment, with people sort of guessing at what might account for the swarthiness, and that his features were as they are in Sketch B. Am I misunderstanding?

It isn't just the complexion.. it is "appearance" and "characteristics", "the latin type", "Indian or Mexican blood", "latin descent", "possible Mexican", "believed unsub was Mexican American" etc.....  Italians are swarthy, sometimes dark.... Vordahl looks more Italian in that vid..

Sketch B was created to try to capture the complexion and some witness changes but it is still just a sketch..  The FBI considered doing a profile sketch,, they should have, a front face sketch is limiting.

I see no hint of (Latino)/Mexican/American Indian in Vordahl's image..

IMO, based on witness statements, Cooper has "Latino"/Mexican/Native American features/appearance that is obvious.... he may be mixed race or just have that look.. but it would be obvious.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

29 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

I understand, but wouldn’t that already be in the mix when it came time to create the sketches? Meaning, wouldn’t any implications it had for features be reflected there? I thought it was generally a complexion comment, with people sort of guessing at what might account for the swarthiness, and that his features were as they are in Sketch B. Am I misunderstanding?

Agreed. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone because I agree with everything you’re saying today. 

[FLYJACK 719]

1 minute ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Agreed. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone because I agree with everything you’re saying today. 

Read the Files.. they aren't guessing at the complexion.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 512]

19 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

For witnesses to give a description it would be obvious... 

 

Yet not obvious enough for most of the eyewitnesses, including two of our primary ones (Tina and Bill) to label him as such. You're putting an overwhelming amount of emphasis on the statements of ONE passenger who admitted to only looking back at Cooper twice. Flo says he appeared to be of Latin decent. But that's it as far as Cooper looking like a Mexican or a Native-American. Is it not fair to suggest that he looked similar to what the final sketch shows?  Mucklow said it bore a strong resemblance and Flo said he should be easily recognized from it. The Cary Grant has a bit of dark complexion but he sure doesn't look like Latino or Native American. The photo that Flo and Bill picked out as looking like the best photo they'd seen of hundreds (the Newsweek imposter) doesn't look Latino or Indian either. 

Again ONE eyewitness out of like 13 eyewitnesses is saying these things; an eyewitness who says he managed to glance at Cooper TWICE. Tina spent 5 hours with the guy and didn't say squat about him looking Latino or American Indian or anything like that. Bill Mitchell has always said that Cooper just looked like a "white guy".

[FLYJACK 719]

31 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Yet not obvious enough for most of the eyewitnesses, including two of our primary ones (Tina and Bill) to label him as such. You're putting an overwhelming amount of emphasis on the statements of ONE passenger who admitted to only looking back at Cooper twice. Flo says he appeared to be of Latin decent. But that's it as far as Cooper looking like a Mexican or a Native-American. Is it not fair to suggest that he looked similar to what the final sketch shows?  Mucklow said it bore a strong resemblance and Flo said he should be easily recognized from it. The Cary Grant has a bit of dark complexion but he sure doesn't look like Latino or Native American. The photo that Flo and Bill picked out as looking like the best photo they'd seen of hundreds (the Newsweek imposter) doesn't look Latino or Indian either. 

Again ONE eyewitness out of like 13 eyewitnesses is saying these things; an eyewitness who says he managed to glance at Cooper TWICE. Tina spent 5 hours with the guy and didn't say squat about him looking Latino or American Indian or anything like that. Bill Mitchell has always said that Cooper just looked like a "white guy".

Mitchell mostly saw a profile, almost everyone else used dark/olive/swarthy that makes Mitchell the outlier. Tina claimed she didn't see his face AND misled the case with sketch A which was mostly her version.. She is compromised for some reason..

Flo said Latin descent.. there was no "Latino" term used then.. Flo's image does have Latin/Mexican/Native American features..

Gregory was the closest to Cooper and about 3 or 4 seats away when the plane landed and when he left he took a good look..

I went through all the witness statements on this and it was not only complexion.. even the FBI noted this..

YOU guys are downplaying the evidence.. and cherry picking.

Nobody said Italian.. or dark Norwegian... they were largely consistent.

Latin (Latino), Mexican and Native American are very similar..

 

So, my point is correct, there is no Latin/Mexican/Native American in Vordahl's image,, you guys have shifted the argument to Cooper didn't..

If your argument is that Cooper didn't have those characteristics then Vordahl is not Cooper.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 512]

15 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

So, my point is correct, there is no Latin/Mexican/Native American in Vordahl's image,, you guys have shifted the argument to Cooper didn't.. 

lol and what features are you seeing in the Flo sketch that make you think Native American? Yeah, the wide forehead and high cheekbones, right? I wonder who else has those features.

It's pretty transparent to everyone on this entire message board what you're doing by overselling the Latin thing. 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 512]

17 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

YOU guys are downplaying the evidence.. and cherry picking.

 

Cherry picking? What, like relying on ONE eyewitness out of thirteen? Literally ONE person said Mexican/Native American and Flo is the only other person who mentions any other racial adjective when she says "Latin descent" (after stating that he was a white man). That's the very definition of cherry picking. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by olemisscub

[CooperNWO305 152]

I put this together for myself for conversations like this. 
 

https://dbcooperhijack.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Various-Witness-Descriptions-2.pdf

[olemisscub 512]

6 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

I put this together for myself for conversations like this. 
 

https://dbcooperhijack.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Various-Witness-Descriptions-2.pdf

Good work there

[CooperNWO305 152]

21 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Good work there

It’s rough. Just a lot of cut and paste. I have a spreadsheet I was putting together. It may or may not ever get done. 
 

If someone has more 302s that I did not put in, let me know and I’ll cut and paste those.  

Does anyone know where the “piercing brown eyes” came from? It is definitely not in the 302s. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by CooperNWO305

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

Here is a picture of the Latin skydivers club who the fbi looked into almost immediately after NORJAK. You can’t look at any one of these guys and peg them as a latino with any confidence. The big guy in the middle is a doppelgänger for one of my good friends who is full Italian with the last name Depasquale 

[olemisscub 512]

14 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

It’s rough. Just a lot of cut and paste. I have a spreadsheet I was putting together. It may or may not ever get done. 

Does anyone know where the “piercing brown eyes” came from? It is definitely not in the 302s. 

It shows up once in NORJAK, page 33, but with no attribution. 

[FLYJACK 719]

59 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Cherry picking? What, like relying on ONE eyewitness out of thirteen? Literally ONE person said Mexican/Native American and Flo is the only other person who mentions any other racial adjective when she says "Latin descent" (after stating that he was a white man). That's the very definition of cherry picking. 

You are the ones cherry picking.. it isn't one..

One said Mexican/Indian but more said Latin.. they are very similar and are consistent. Descent and blood means mixed race.. the FBI suggested investigating Mexican connections.. not Italian or Norwegian.

But, you guys make a grave error,, Gregory said White and 1/4 Mexican/Native because they aren't mutually exclusive. Back then there was no "Latino".. Latin American's were white/caucasian..

You guys are using a false premise to conclude that white meant NOT Latino, it didn't back then..

Even Hahneman was described as white, dark swarthy complexion, Latin...

I am following the evidence.. what the hell are you guys doing.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 719]

55 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

lol and what features are you seeing in the Flo sketch that make you think Native American? Yeah, the wide forehead and high cheekbones, right? I wonder who else has those features.

It's pretty transparent to everyone on this entire message board what you're doing by overselling the Latin thing. 

 

You argument is contradicting.

You claimed Cooper didn't have Latino/Mexican/Indian characteristics but now you claim Vordahl does..

Your logic is a hot mess.. 

I am not overselling anything, if anybody wants to believe Cooper didn't have those characteristics then I say good luck.. Read the files, it is clear.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 719]

30 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Here is a picture of the Latin skydivers club who the fbi looked into almost immediately after NORJAK. You can’t look at any one of these guys and peg them as a latino with any confidence. The big guy in the middle is a doppelgänger for one of my good friends who is full Italian with the last name Depasquale 

So, you are claiming Vordahl doesn't look latin?? and Latin guys don't look Latin.. it is a bad pic.

This makes my case.. Cooper looked Latin American.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK