DB Cooper

[Jay Ritchie 3]

11 hours ago, Slim King said:

Walter Peca passed as a Native American. He looks a lot more Latin than any of those cool cats.

Interesting photo - do you know what Peca's ancestry was?

I have wondered about the different backgrounds of people who may be seen as a standard/ swarthy white guy by some, and as having some native American ancestry by others. For the last couple of months each time I've been into a cafe (many of which are Turkish or Kurdish in my area, plus some Bulgarian) I've wondered about how some of the staff might have been described by people from different areas.

[FLYJACK 699]

10 minutes ago, Jay Ritchie said:

Interesting photo - do you know what Peca's ancestry was?

I have wondered about the different backgrounds of people who may be seen as a standard/ swarthy white guy by some, and as having some native American ancestry by others. For the last couple of months each time I've been into a cafe (many of which are Turkish or Kurdish in my area, plus some Bulgarian) I've wondered about how some of the staff might have been described by people from different areas.

Is it his blue eyes and ability to drift a chute 100 miles (Vern Jones) that makes him native..

[CooperNWO305 151]

12 minutes ago, Jay Ritchie said:

Interesting photo - do you know what Peca's ancestry was?

I have wondered about the different backgrounds of people who may be seen as a standard/ swarthy white guy by some, and as having some native American ancestry by others. For the last couple of months each time I've been into a cafe (many of which are Turkish or Kurdish in my area, plus some Bulgarian) I've wondered about how some of the staff might have been described by people from different areas.

He spoke all those languages? Any proof? Any recordings? I come from a family of linguists. I’ve studied some languages but not to the extent real linguists have. So many people claim proficiency in a language, even today. Just look at LinkedIn. The same people claim to be CEOs of companies, but these companies have three people. It’s very easy to fake these things, especially when they have friends telling them how good they are. 
 

Do Reca’s military files show language proficiency? These files should. Any other examples of him using those languages? Maybe his parents spoke some, but that does not make him proficient. His whole story is too good to be true. I read this book many years ago and was very surprised to see how many famous people had faked their backgrounds. It seemed that most of them had military service, but they embellished things and added to their story. I’m not sure who is worse, Reca for lying, or the Reca group for believing him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by CooperNWO305

[Jay Ritchie 3]

Just now, FLYJACK said:

Is it his blue eyes and ability to drift a chute 100 miles (Vern Jones) that makes him native..

Haha!! I was thinking more that he has an appearance that could be perceived in slightly different ways by different people depending on the populations they are used to seeing. I would have guessed a Russian or Hungarian background - possibly Baltic - and wouldn't be surprised by some Siberian ancestry.

[FLYJACK 699]

Just now, Jay Ritchie said:

Haha!! I was thinking more that he has an appearance that could be perceived in slightly different ways by different people depending on the populations they are used to seeing. I would have guessed a Russian or Hungarian background - possibly Baltic - and wouldn't be surprised by some Siberian ancestry.

Apparently Russian.. but we can't trust any info about Reca, the narrative is a fraud..

[Jay Ritchie 3]

3 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

He spoke all those languages? Any proof? Any recordings? I come from a family of linguists. I’ve studied some languages but not to the extent real linguists have. So many people claim proficiency in a language, even today. Just look at LinkedIn. The same people claim to be CEOs of companies, but these companies have three people. It’s very easy to fake these things, especially when they have friends telling them how good they are. 
 

Do Reca’s military files show language proficiency? These files should. Any other examples of him using those languages? Maybe his parents spoke some, but that does not make him proficient. His whole story is too good to be true. I read this book many years ago and was very surprised to see how many famous people had faked their backgrounds. It seemed that most of them had military service, but they embellished things and added to their story. I’m not sure who is worse, Reca for lying, or the Reca group for believing him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor

 

Its clearly not true. No way does he speak Philipino (I'm assuming this means Tagalog), Thai and Arabic, and I'm highly sceptical about Persian assuming he grew up in the US. Few people have professional competency in more than one of these as a second language.

[olemisscub 510]

Just now, Jay Ritchie said:

Its clearly not true. No way does he speak Philipino (I'm assuming this means Tagalog), Thai and Arabic, and I'm highly sceptical about Persian assuming he grew up in the US. Few people have professional competency in more than one of these as a second language.

Just about everything about Peca is false. He was cosplaying before it was cool. His "KGB identification card" literally has his real name on it. Double agents are going to use their real names from their country of origin?

If you want to see what someone who actually worked for the CIA looks like, check out Ted Braden's public records vs. Reca's.

 

[FLYJACK 699]

The other problem is using sketches and pics.. a single image can be misleading more images with ancestral facts to corroborate are better..

I have a dozen images of a suspect and he looks like 3 completely different people..

[Math of Insects 98]

34 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

The other problem is using sketches and pics.. a single image can be misleading more images with ancestral facts to corroborate are better..

I have a dozen images of a suspect and he looks like 3 completely different people..

I think you're right--anyone who spends more than a day on a dating app will attest to the fact that pictures don't always look like the people :coughcough 10 years older and 20 pounds heavier every damn time :coughcough.

BUT...

It's tricky making the "you can never tell" argument. It's a VERY short trip from there to the kinds of all-bets-are-off approach favored by some who propose, for example, tall, skinny, blond-haired, blue-eyed, light-skinned, big-eared, pointy-jawed Sting's-ugly-brother guys from Pittsburgh, with a straight face, because "witness statements can be wrong."

I think we have to sort of agree on baselines--which to me would mean generally agreeing that the suspect would have to be plausibly described in real time in ways that would result in Sketch B.

The question always has to be, if someone saw X person in real time, how would they describe the person? What would stand out? What might seem more extreme just by virtue of being noticed, and what things that ARE extreme would definitely be mentioned?

Piercing blue eyes would be mentioned. Dimples. A huge schnocker of a potato-nose. Thin blond hair. A missing finger! Etc. These all make various suspects non-starters IMO. 

I think Hahnemann could plausibly be described in real time as Sketch B, with some asterisks maybe, though of course you have much more than I or any of us on that count. I also think Vordahl could. Maybe Smith too, though it's hard to say what he might have looked like in the right time period. He's got kind of a Robert DeNiro thing that I would think would be disqualifying when he was younger. Plus I think the book is comically obvious to be fiction. But picture to picture, I think he could get there.

The real trick is then putting the guy on that airplane. Only Hahnemann would come close to checking that box, for now.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Math of Insects

[FLYJACK 699]

Titanium-Antimony and salt was used as a flameproofing for textiles starting in the 50's...

That is why I sent a 1964 era Penny's tie to Tom for testing.. some of the particle may be inherent to the production/dying/flame proofing of Dacron Polyester.

[Math of Insects 98]

2 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Titanium-Antimony and salt was used as a flameproofing for textiles starting in the 50's...

That is why I sent a 1964 era Penny's tie to Tom for testing.. some of the particle may be inherent to the production/dying/flame proofing of Dacron Polyester.

Yes. The lack of control groups is disqualifying of any data taken from that testing, IMO. I continue to be baffled at the absence of even the most basic controls. I hope that tie gets tested.

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

[Nicholas Broughton 69]

5 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

According to key witness Bill Mitchell he’s got the facial features. I’ll roll with that over fly’s interpretation of the witness descriptions. He actually attentively laid eyes on the guy!

Edited November 26, 2022 by Nicholas Broughton

[FLYJACK 699]

2 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

I think you're right--anyone who spends more than a day on a dating app will attest to the fact that pictures don't always look like the people :coughcough 10 years older and 20 pounds heavier every damn time :coughcough.

BUT...

It's tricky making the "you can never tell" argument. It's a VERY short trip from there to the kinds of all-bets-are-off approach favored by some who propose, for example, tall, skinny, blond-haired, blue-eyed, light-skinned, big-eared, pointy-jawed Sting's-ugly-brother guys from Pittsburgh, with a straight face, because "witness statements can be wrong."

The question always has to be, if someone saw X person in real time, how would they describe the person? What would stand out? What might seem more extreme just by virtue of being noticed, and what things that ARE extreme would definitely be mentioned?

Piercing blue eyes would be mentioned. Dimples. A huge schnocker of a potato-nose. Thin blond hair. A missing finger! Etc. These all make various suspects non-starters IMO. 

I think we have to sort of agree on baselines--which to me would mean generally agreeing that the suspect would have to be plausibly described in real time in ways that would result in Sketch B.

I think Hahnemann could plausibly be described in real time as Sketch B, with some asterisks maybe, though of course you have much more than I or any of us on that count. I also think Vordahl could. Maybe Smith too, though it's hard to say what he might have looked like in the right time period. He's got kind of a Robert DeNiro thing that I would think would be disqualifying when he was younger. Plus I think the book is comically obvious to be fiction. But picture to picture, I think he could get there.

The real trick is then putting the guy on that airplane. Only Hahnemann would come close to checking that box, for now.

Sure, you have many boxes to check.. resembling the sketch is the basics..  it is a process and with such a passage of time you just can't get all the info needed for each suspect.. Where was X on November 24 1971.. 

I have put together a 100 point list for Cooper's profile.. some are facts, witness testimony but most are inferences made by the FBI.. it surprised me how few 100% facts we actually have.. that gives suspects lots of plausible wiggle room,, he had a tan or he was a dark Norwegian..

This 100 point list really sorts out the weak... each point can be a match, a negation or an unknown.. a match or a negation can be qualified from weak to strong.. but at the end you still a get a circumstantial analysis or a map. Very strong to very weak.

When Cooper is revealed everything will fit in place and it will be obvious, not a bending, twisting or contorting of evidence to make him fit.

I think new DNA will be the only way to put somebody in the end zone, and that may not even be possible any longer with the FBI and contamination.. we may only have a strong circumstantial case at best...

[FLYJACK 699]

 

24 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

According to key witness Bill Mitchell he’s got the facial features. I’ll roll with that over fly’s interpretation of the witness descriptions. He actually attentively laid eyes on the guy!

False dichotomy, NickyB..

Bill said "he does kind of look like him.."  the sketch. He is correct.

He is one of the few that didn't notice a dark olive complexion.. an outlier,, why is that?

Did he only see a profile? Did he not really pay close attention to Cooper because he didn't know a hijacking was going on and he moved seats.. odd, don't you think..

Bill didn't see the dark complexion but now you rely on him.. to ID a guy you claim had a dark Norwegian complexion. 

He also said he couldn't ID Cooper any longer... You seem to miss that part Nicky.. selective memory.

Bill was being polite, he is a nice guy and Vordahl does kind of resemble sketch,

Gregory knew something was up with Cooper when he got up to leave he took a good look at him.. and Gregory's description was corroborated by others.

and Bill was the one who mentioned the turkey neck, that is something you would see in the profile..

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[Math of Insects 98]

It was complete coincidence but I happened to catch that Mitchell moment on FB Live. He was saying the photo of Vordahl does sort of resemble the sketch--not that Vordahl resembles Cooper. 

[olemisscub 510]

3 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

It was complete coincidence but I happened to catch that Mitchell moment on FB Live. He was saying the photo of Vordahl does sort of resemble the sketch--not that Vordahl resembles Cooper. 

I do believe this to be the case as well. Bill's memory of Cooper just isn't there anymore (why would it be?) He mainly told us that he likes the Vordahl angle because of the vibe. He said there was nothing at all intimidating about Cooper and repeated his statements about Cooper being a "geeky old guy". He says that all the programs that talk about Rackstraw and all these other commando and skydiver sorts just never sat well with him because that just wasn't who Cooper was. He wasn't "that guy" i.e. Billy Badass. He gave me his email and asked that I stay in touch and send him some more info on Vordahl and also any 302's that I know are his (Bill's). 

[CooperNWO305 151]

2 hours ago, Jay Ritchie said:

Its clearly not true. No way does he speak Philipino (I'm assuming this means Tagalog), Thai and Arabic, and I'm highly sceptical about Persian assuming he grew up in the US. Few people have professional competency in more than one of these as a second language.

Right. It’s very difficult for Americans to learn the Asian or Arabic languages, and actually the Slavic/Eastern European  languages too unless they have the ancestry. Much more common to see an American proficient in a Romance or Germanic language. Not all of the above like Reca claims. Also, wouldn’t you think someone with those skills might look for a white collar job as an interpreter or linguist and not one in welding or construction? Maybe he just didn’t want an office job. 
 

Hopefully the Reca team can release his official military files so we can corroborate some info. But I bet because he was CIA that most of what he did won’t be in the files. Like the assassination in The Netherlands. 

[Jay Ritchie 3]

24 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Right. It’s very difficult for Americans to learn the Asian or Arabic languages, and actually the Slavic/Eastern European  languages too unless they have the ancestry. Much more common to see an American proficient in a Romance or Germanic language. Not all of the above like Reca claims. Also, wouldn’t you think someone with those skills might look for a white collar job as an interpreter or linguist and not one in welding or construction? Maybe he just didn’t want an office job. 
 

Hopefully the Reca team can release his official military files so we can corroborate some info. But I bet because he was CIA that most of what he did won’t be in the files. Like the assassination in The Netherlands. 

I think the list of Reca languages just reinforces the impression that he was making things up, and didn't even have enough knowledge of the subject matter to know his claims were outrageous.

Still, his listing of Polish, Russian and Ukrainian plus possibly German is a long way from impossible. Thinking of people who might have provoked the descriptions given of Cooper perhaps men such as Charles Bronson (the actor, not the criminal) or Yul Brynner might have had an appearance which could have led some to think of native American ancestry?

[olemisscub 510]

10 minutes ago, Jay Ritchie said:

Thinking of people who might have provoked the descriptions given of Cooper perhaps men such as Charles Bronson (the actor, not the criminal) or Yul Brynner might have had an appearance which could have led some to think of native American ancestry?

We know precisely what Gregory was seeing in Cooper that made him think NA ancestry. It was high cheekbones and broad forehead. In the 302's we have him cutting pictures out of National Geographic magazine and sending them into the FBI highlighting those characteristics. 

[FLYJACK 699]

12 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

We know precisely what Gregory was seeing in Cooper that made him think NA ancestry. It was high cheekbones and broad forehead. In the 302's we have him cutting pictures out of National Geographic magazine and sending them into the FBI highlighting those characteristics. 

Not exactly, it was also the hair and the complexion.. overall appearance.

[Jay Ritchie 3]

15 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

We know precisely what Gregory was seeing in Cooper that made him think NA ancestry. It was high cheekbones and broad forehead. In the 302's we have him cutting pictures out of National Geographic magazine and sending them into the FBI highlighting those characteristics. 

Are there features which would be pretty firm indicators of a NA ancestry (say - one grandparent) as opposed to some Siberian/ Mongolian/ Japanese ancestry?

[FLYJACK 699]

2 minutes ago, Jay Ritchie said:

Are there features which would be pretty firm indicators of a NA ancestry (say - one grandparent) as opposed to some Siberian/ Mongolian/ Japanese ancestry?

Gregory said 1/4 Mexican or possibly Native American blood.. that is virtually the same as Latin (Latino)

Edited November 26, 2022 by FLYJACK

[Jay Ritchie 3]

Just now, FLYJACK said:

Gregory said 1/4 Mexican or possibly Native American blood..

I presumed when he said '1/4 Mexican' he was indicating native American background? 

[olemisscub 510]

10 minutes ago, Jay Ritchie said:

Are there features which would be pretty firm indicators of a NA ancestry (say - one grandparent) as opposed to some Siberian/ Mongolian/ Japanese ancestry?

No they aren't features that are exclusive to any ethnicity. He just saw a swarthy/olive skinned man with those features and made a reasonable assumption.