DB Cooper

[olemisscub 510]

Brian Ingram just said on Facebook that they washed the money in their sink and used fabric softener on the money. 

[CooperNWO305 151]

For those who don’t follow the Facebook group, EU posted an interesting thought about the tie. It looks as if one of the tie tack holes may actually be bigger than a normal pin and could possibly be a burn vs a hole. Far right on pic. 

[FLYJACK 702]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Brian Ingram just said on Facebook that they washed the money in their sink and used fabric softener on the money. 

We heard that before but it was with Clorox.. ??

 

 

[FLYJACK 702]

2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

For those who don’t follow the Facebook group, EU posted an interesting thought about the tie. It looks as if one of the tie tack holes may actually be bigger than a normal pin and could possibly be a burn vs a hole. Far right on pic. 

Looks like it could be in pics but Tom handled the tie..

Tom would have identified it as a burn..

My guess is no,, Tom would have noticed it as a burn when he handled the tie, maybe ask Tom..

Another image shows a surrounding indentation, that indicates some type if pin was attached..  not a burn.

 

Tom believed it was a tie tack impression/hole, he handled it and would have noticed if it was a burn..

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

26 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Looks like it could be in pics but Tom handled the tie..

Tom would have identified it as a burn..

My guess is no,, Tom would have noticed it as a burn when he handled the tie, maybe ask Tom..

Another image shows a surrounding indentation, that indicates some type if pin was attached..  not a burn.

That's good stuff. 

[georger 244]

9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

We heard that before but it was with Clorox.. ??

 

 

 fabric softener ? 

ok so now its fabric softener. no dish soap. no clorox.

Only FJ and Brian know!  They were there. Georger never talked to Pat brokered by Brian.  My old posts on the matter never happened.

Brian was riding a horse on that day at Tena Bar. They cleaned the horse in the sink with ...........  fabric softener.  Ulis was there.

Next piece of Facebook contumely! 

Edited December 31, 2022 by georger

[haggarknew 4]

  Really enjoying the discussions !  Going back to some of the earlier ones..... I also have wondered about some of Cooper's  use of phrases ?  Some sound contrived, others sound borrowed from a movie?  Was it rehearsed or was it part of his usual banter?  Not sure what, if anything, it says about Cooper?         Not sure who posted it....but very thought provoking was the post on the timing of Cooper handing the initial note to Flo .....Great post!!   What would Cooper have done if Flo had flipped out and screamed or something else to draw attention to the situation? Why not wait till they are in the air? A mistake in planning? Kinda sounds like it to me, lmho. Once again, very thought provoking. Excellent post!

 

[CooperNWO305 151]

13 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Looks like it could be in pics but Tom handled the tie..

Tom would have identified it as a burn..

My guess is no,, Tom would have noticed it as a burn when he handled the tie, maybe ask Tom..

Another image shows a surrounding indentation, that indicates some type if pin was attached..  not a burn.

 

Tom believed it was a tie tack impression/hole, he handled it and would have noticed if it was a burn..

 

It sounds like Eric talked to Tom. It does look like an impression from a pin but it also does look bigger than a pin hole around it, to me it could be a burn. Where is that in relation to the whole tie? I’ve only seen closeups. 

[CooperNWO305 151]

20 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

It sounds like Eric talked to Tom. It does look like an impression from a pin but it also does look bigger than a pin hole around it, to me it could be a burn. Where is that in relation to the whole tie? I’ve only seen closeups. 

Ok, it looks visible now. Seems to me that a cigarette could have come in contact with it. EU mentioned it would be under the overcoat (not sure I see that). 

[olemisscub 510]

31 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

EU mentioned it would be under the overcoat (not sure I see that). 

He’s assuming the overcoat is buttoned up. My mind’s eye always has Cooper with his suit jacket and raincoat/top coat unbuttoned while seated (because we don’t sit down with jackets buttoned unless you’re a weirdo)

[FLYJACK 702]

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

It sounds like Eric talked to Tom. It does look like an impression from a pin but it also does look bigger than a pin hole around it, to me it could be a burn. Where is that in relation to the whole tie? I’ve only seen closeups. 

What does Tom say? a cigarette burn is obvious.. he wouldn't have missed it..

That spot is center, where a pin would be.

A cigarette burn in polyester creates a hole, not an impression. Look up cigarette burn on polyester, the material disappears/vaporizes creating a hole.

That looks like an impression from some type of pin.. the base of the pin would be wider or tapered making it somewhat unique.. most are flat.

Here are some vintage tie pins with a beveled/protruding base..

BTW,, I have always believed based on the impression that the tie was worn with that pin for years and the MOP clasp was thrown on later for the hijacking..

The person wearing the tie when the particles were acquired was wearing a pin.. not the MOP alligator clip..

Probably a corporate pin... 

This is a vintage RCA pin,, it would make the same impression..

Edited December 31, 2022 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 151]

28 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

What does Tom say? a cigarette burn is obvious.. he wouldn't have missed it..

That spot is center, where a pin would be.

A cigarette burn in polyester creates a hole, not an impression. Look up cigarette burn on polyester, the material disappears/vaporizes creating a hole.

That looks like an impression from some type of pin.. the base of the pin would be wider or tapered making it somewhat unique.. most are flat.

Here are some vintage tie pins with a beveled/protruding base..

BTW,, I have always believed based on the impression that the tie was worn with that pin for years and the MOP clasp was thrown on later for the hijacking..

The person wearing the tie when the particles were acquired was wearing a pin.. not the MOP alligator clip..

Probably a corporate pin... 

This is a vintage RCA pin,, it would make the same impression..

From what EU wrote, Tom did not mention a burn. Tom says it may have been from the pin moving around. I tend to agree with you on the bar vs the pin.
 

I don’t know why you would wear a bar and a pin at the same time. Looks like maybe a pin was removed and replaced with a bar. Lots of possibilities with the tie, so many roads to go down. I think the tie on the plane was the one Cooper wore, but other than that there is room for debate on all of it. I do think a clip on fits Cooper more than say a fancy regular tie from a high end store. 

[FLYJACK 702]

31 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

From what EU wrote, Tom did not mention a burn. Tom says it may have been from the pin moving around. I tend to agree with you on the bar vs the pin.
 

I don’t know why you would wear a bar and a pin at the same time. Looks like maybe a pin was removed and replaced with a bar. Lots of possibilities with the tie, so many roads to go down. I think the tie on the plane was the one Cooper wore, but other than that there is room for debate on all of it. I do think a clip on fits Cooper more than say a fancy regular tie from a high end store. 

You wouldn't wear both a clip and a pin... 

Most pins are flat and would not leave such a large impression, but not all..

There are pins with a bevelled or raised base.. if you don't know that then the indent would appear to be a burn.. finding tie pins with a wider base that match that impression changes that perception. 

and the pin that was worn with this tie was not the common flat back type,, this is significant.

polyester vaporizes when burned.. you'd see a hole

and Tom would have recognized a burn..

 

Add it all up..

IMO,, it isn't a burn, it is from a less common bevelled/raised back tie pin, probably corporate and worn for most of the time prior to Norjak when the particles were deposited..

Find that uncommon pin shape from circa 1965...

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Probably a corporate pin... 

 

The pins at Crucible looked like this. We actually have Vordahl’s and we’re working on getting the family to send it to Tom because he said he wants to have a look at it.

Edited December 31, 2022 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 702]

9 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

The pins at Crucible looked like this. We actually have Vordahl’s and we’re working on getting the family to send it to Tom because he said he wants to have a look at it.

Not a tie pin.. the back clasp doesn't match the tie mark.. maybe worn elsewhere like shirt pocket.

back of that pin.. but there are lots of corporate pins out there.

[olemisscub 510]

That’s kind of a low area of the tie for a pin, no? 
 

It does look more like that area has been repeatedly stabbed by something moreso than a burn. 

[olemisscub 510]

Latest Vault. Nothing notable as far as I can tell. 

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper /d.b.-cooper-part-78/view

[JAGdb 89]

A while back, I was looking into the pilot angle for the hijacker.  I was interested in finding out whether or not pilots used clip on ties.  Apparently, it wasn't uncommon for pilots to use clip on ties as some found it easy to take off in long flights once the cockpit door was closed.  Then, they could easily put it back on when they were visible to passengers.

One of the things that I came across was that many pilots wore their ALPA pins on their tie.  From some pictures that I have seen, they would wear the pin in the middle of the bottom third of the tie.  

Anyway, I am not saying the hijacker was a pilot, but it's worthy of consideration.  Here are some pics of period ALPA pins.

Edited January 1, 2023 by JAGdb

[CooperNWO305 151]

10 hours ago, JAGdb said:

A while back, I was looking into the pilot angle for the hijacker.  I was interested in finding out whether or not pilots used clip on ties.  Apparently, it wasn't uncommon for pilots to use clip on ties as some found it easy to take off in long flights once the cockpit door was closed.  Then, they could easily put it back on when they were visible to passengers.

One of the things that I came across was that many pilots wore their ALPA pins on their tie.  From some pictures that I have seen, they would wear the pin in the middle of the bottom third of the tie.  

Anyway, I am not saying the hijacker was a pilot, but it's worthy of consideration.  Here are some pics of period ALPA pins.

Interesting angle. I agree with the placement of the tack in the lower third, at least that’s where I wore one. Also, a tack seems to have more options for customization as in a logo, etc. Mine would not point directly to me, but would be pretty specific to a certain function. So yea, a pilot’s tie could be possible. Cooper may very well have removed the tie tack if it could identify the owner or at least narrow down the field. 
 

Pilots and plane crew are constantly on the road and staying at hotels. Any of us who have traveled a lot know how common it is to leave things behind. There is nothing that says Cooper didn’t find that tie. 
 

I still think he may have left the tie on the plane on purpose, as a symbol or because he didn’t care. 
 

Edit. Looking on eBay for old tie tacks, I see a lot of military, railroad, and airline. I think a lot of corporations probably had their own. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by CooperNWO305

[FLYJACK 702]

Am I reading this right...

They found two hands near Woodland in March 1972,,, 

[FLYJACK 702]

47 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Interesting angle. I agree with the placement of the tack in the lower third, at least that’s where I wore one. Also, a tack seems to have more options for customization as in a logo, etc. Mine would not point directly to me, but would be pretty specific to a certain function. So yea, a pilot’s tie could be possible. Cooper may very well have removed the tie tack if it could identify the owner or at least narrow down the field. 
 

Pilots and plane crew are constantly on the road and staying at hotels. Any of us who have traveled a lot know how common it is to leave things behind. There is nothing that says Cooper didn’t find that tie. 
 

I still think he may have left the tie on the plane on purpose, as a symbol or because he didn’t care. 
 

Edit. Looking on eBay for old tie tacks, I see a lot of military, railroad, and airline. I think a lot of corporations probably had their own. 

IMO, there are two likely scenarios..

Cooper removed the pin/tack and replaced it with the clip for the hijacking because it may have helped ID him..

or..

Cooper got the tie without the pin/tack just prior to the hijacking. 

 

 

 

 

 

[olemisscub 510]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Am I reading this right...

They found two hands near Woodland in March 1972,,, 

Since the top says "female deceased" it appears that it's both hands from that same corpse. 

[olemisscub 510]

made this the other day. I'm also almost positive, from looking at photos, that the first three people in that video are Robert and Adele Cummings and their adult son Lynn (holding the radio). Also, the guy between Andvik and Michelson matches the age and height of Andvik's co-worker, Albert B. Truitt, but I couldn't find any photos to corroborate this. 

 

[georger 244]

Fabric softener! and other things? 

Now that celebrity Mr. Ingram has finally 'recovered his memory' over at the Ulis Cooper Forum on Facebook, maybe Mr. Ingram can finally tell us something of value?

For example: where were Brian and Denise when they found the money at Tena Bar ! ?  Can Mr. Ingram read a map and point to the location. ?  40 feet from the shoreline or just 20 feet 'near the water's edge', as Crystal Ingram testified to Agent Himmelsbach saying 'the Ingrams have given you, the FBI, the wrong location' ?

No prompting from Mr Ulis, NickyB, Agent Carr, Tom Kaye, or Richard Tosaw etc. Pray on the matter.

Thank you.

Something is wrong with this whole story, or, its one of the greatest coincidences in the history of Mankind. There is something missing in the Ingram's account. 

   

Edited January 1, 2023 by georger

[georger 244]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Since the top says "female deceased" it appears that it's both hands from that same corpse. 

Yes. Interesting. A bear attack on a person or something out of "Fargo" ?  Missing person ? Dismembered person ?  Zombie attack? Were the Ingrams there looking for money ?

Edited January 1, 2023 by georger