DB Cooper

[olemisscub 510]

Hi Randy, I've come across Ellis before on NAMUS and he certainly has a dang good looking face for Cooper, but unfortunately his profile says he was only 5'6. Cooper was 5'10 to 6' tall, with one stewardess estimating him as tall as 6'1. Height exaggeration is a very real thing among eyewitnesses, but to think someone 5'6 was described as 6' is a bit of a bridge too far. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by olemisscub

[Math of Insects 98]

7 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Hi Randy, I've come across Ellis before on NAMUS and he certainly has a dang good looking face for Cooper, but unfortunately his profile says he was only 5'6. Cooper was 5'10 to 6' tall, with one stewardess estimating him as tall as 6'1. Height exaggeration is a very real thing among eyewitnesses, but to think someone 5'6 was described as 6' is a bit of a bridge too far. 

Spring diatoms can add up to 6" in height. 

[randy233 6]

38 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Hi Randy, I've come across Ellis before on NAMUS and he certainly has a dang good looking face for Cooper, but unfortunately his profile says he was only 5'6. Cooper was 5'10 to 6' tall, with one stewardess estimating him as tall as 6'1. Height exaggeration is a very real thing among eyewitnesses, but to think someone 5'6 was described as 6' is a bit of a bridge too far. 

Hi, thanks for your reply.

Yes, his height is definitely an issue. Apart from that I find Ellis an intriguing suspect. There is just something about this guy that makes me think he could have been Cooper. I wonder if the FBI has ever looked into him and ruled him out as a suspect. Maybe if Larry Carr reads this he can let us know.

[FLYJACK 707]

17 hours ago, randy233 said:

Hi, thanks for your reply.

Yes, his height is definitely an issue. Apart from that I find Ellis an intriguing suspect. There is just something about this guy that makes me think he could have been Cooper. I wonder if the FBI has ever looked into him and ruled him out as a suspect. Maybe if Larry Carr reads this he can let us know.

The FBI would have ruled him out based on his size,, they did look at people who didn't quite match Cooper's profile if they had some other significant characteristic..  for example, a blue eyed expert jumper.

[olemisscub 510]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

The FBI would have ruled him out based on his size,, they did look at people who didn't quite match Cooper's profile if they had some other significant characteristic..  for example, a blue eyed expert jumper.

I checked the database for all the 302's that mention Maryland and there is nothing relating to anyone on the run in 71. 

[randy233 6]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The FBI would have ruled him out based on his size,, they did look at people who didn't quite match Cooper's profile if they had some other significant characteristic..  for example, a blue eyed expert jumper.

You guys are right, Ellis is too small to be Cooper.

I converted their heights to centimeters (which makes more sense to me) and Ellis' 1.67m compared to Coopers 1.85m is too much of a height difference.

Ellis was actually a really small guy and that would have been noticed by the people who interacted with Cooper.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by randy233

[olemisscub 510]

For anyone wanting to mess around with the flight path without the FBI's connect the dots marking, I removed the pencil mark.

 

[georger 244]

4 hours ago, olemisscub said:

For anyone wanting to mess around with the flight path without the FBI's connect the dots marking, I removed the pencil mark.

 

why?

[Robert99 50]

12 hours ago, georger said:

why?

Georger, you have got the blue line to far west.  You need to line it up with the Mayfield and Canby Intersections and then you will notice that it passes through some of those red "X" marks.

When you do that, you can call it the Western Flight Path.  And you will notice that it passes right over Tena Bar.

The above is best seen on the original FBI maps.

But Georger and FlyJack will deny all of this since it doesn't fit into their scenarios.

[FLYJACK 707]

27 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, you have got the blue line to far west.  You need to line it up with the Mayfield and Canby Intersections and then you will notice that it passes through some of those red "X" marks.

When you do that, you can call it the Western Flight Path.  And you will notice that it passes right over Tena Bar.

The above is best seen on the original FBI maps.

But Georger and FlyJack will deny all of this since it doesn't fit into their scenarios.

No, it is rejected because there is no evidence,, the evidence supports the so called "FBI" path.

[Robert99 50]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

No, it is rejected because there is no evidence,, the evidence supports the so called "FBI" path.

FlyJack, you Georger and Olemisscub need to list your aeronautical qualifications here, if any, and explain what leads you to accept the so-called FBI flight path at face value.  It should be noted that the FBI didn't have anything to do with the preparation of that flight path.  If you don't have any aeronautical qualifications to support your claims, you are just accepting that flight path on faith. 

[FLYJACK 707]

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack, you Georger and Olemisscub need to list your aeronautical qualifications here, if any, and explain what leads you to accept the so-called FBI flight path at face value.  It should be noted that the FBI didn't have anything to do with the preparation of that flight path.  If you don't have any aeronautical qualifications to support your claims, you are just accepting that flight path on faith. 

Credentialism is a common fallacy...

Everybody knows the FBI didn't make the map, we got it from the FBI and is accepted by them as the path..

You know the evidence, it has been discussed to death, if not search.

The WFP has been beaten to death and there is no evidence for it.. 

 

 

[olemisscub 510]

Copycat Melvin Fisher. Some familiar elements here with Cooper. He got further than any other copycat who didn't jump. He actually got the stairs down but couldn't locate a familiar landmark, chickened out, then turned himself in. I don't know of any other non-jumping copycats who actually put a chute on and had the stairs down. My research on Fisher indicated that he was at one point an aviation cadet, but ended up as a B-24 mechanic during the war. 

[georger 244]

7 hours ago, Robert99 said:

FlyJack, you Georger and Olemisscub need to list your aeronautical qualifications here, if any, and explain what leads you to accept the so-called FBI flight path at face value.  It should be noted that the FBI didn't have anything to do with the preparation of that flight path.  If you don't have any aeronautical qualifications to support your claims, you are just accepting that flight path on faith. 

More to the point - what's your excuse!      Try where you put your keys .. try the refrigerator! Still in the door lock ?   ...........................................................  ???

Edited February 2, 2023 by georger

[Robert99 50]

7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Credentialism is a common fallacy...

Everybody knows the FBI didn't make the map, we got it from the FBI and is accepted by them as the path..

You know the evidence, it has been discussed to death, if not search.

The WFP has been beaten to death and there is no evidence for it.. 

 

 

Carr apparently posted that flight path here years ago in an effort to find out where it came from.  That doesn't sound like the FBI had bought off on it.

[Robert99 50]

1 hour ago, georger said:

More to the point - what's your excuse!      Try where you put your keys .. try the refrigerator! Still in the door lock ?   ...........................................................  ???

Georger, what is your excuse for evading the question?  Even George Santos may have told the truth once even if he can't remember what it was.

[Rohmer 1]

Minor topic, but what’s the opinion on here regarding Cooper’s choice of Thanksgiving (eve)? It could merely be random of course, but in light of his overall planning & deliberation, I tend to think not.

On a practical level, would he have done it because stews/pilots would’ve had their guard down, with one eye on the holiday? Is that likely, or would the crew have been working Thursday anyway?

If it’s not about that, perhaps he’s buying himself time to get back to his family and/or job. For me this potential rationale would tie into the question of Cooper’s survival. If he had a steady job or an immediate family, I think it’s very likely he survived. Otherwise his sudden absence would’ve been picked up, in my view.

[FLYJACK 707]

10 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Carr apparently posted that flight path here years ago in an effort to find out where it came from.  That doesn't sound like the FBI had bought off on it.

I wasn't here when Carr was posting, but if you read the 302's that path was used by and accepted by the FBI..

A copy of that map and path was used by the search centre, it is on the wall.

To claim it was not used and accepted by the FBI is lunacy.

Edited February 2, 2023 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 707]

7 hours ago, Rohmer said:

Minor topic, but what’s the opinion on here regarding Cooper’s choice of Thanksgiving (eve)? It could merely be random of course, but in light of his overall planning & deliberation, I tend to think not.

On a practical level, would he have done it because stews/pilots would’ve had their guard down, with one eye on the holiday? Is that likely, or would the crew have been working Thursday anyway?

If it’s not about that, perhaps he’s buying himself time to get back to his family and/or job. For me this potential rationale would tie into the question of Cooper’s survival. If he had a steady job or an immediate family, I think it’s very likely he survived. Otherwise his sudden absence would’ve been picked up, in my view.

Probably random.. getting back to a job is possible but he would have been recorded missing from his job on the 24th,

Getting back to the family doesn't make sense because he would be missing for T-DAY.. so unlikely he had to get back to a family.

Anything is possible but IMO most likely,, a random day.

More interesting is why choose the end of November, the PNW weather and temps are not good for a jump and ground escape. If he lands safe he is going to be wet, cold and dirty...  My theory, his original plan was to jump further South.

Edited February 2, 2023 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

22 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Probably random.. getting back to a job is possible but he would have been recorded missing from his job on the 24th,

Getting back to the family doesn't make sense because he would be missing for T-DAY.. so unlikely he had to get back to a family.

Anything is possible but IMO most likely,, a random day.

More interesting is why choose the end of November, the PNW weather and temps are not good for a jump and ground escape. If he lands safe he is going to be wet and dirty...  My thoery, his original plan was to jump further South.

 

Definitely wasn't the moon. I'm not sure why I had never checked before, but Nov 24 was a 1st quarter (half) moon. If he had gone a week earlier he'd have had a new moon and it would have been pitch dark. 

This is why McNally hijacked his plane when he did. He was going by the phases of the moon. His first attempt was a month earlier but he was spotted by an old Navy buddy in the St. Louis airport (what are the odds?). So he abandoned that attempt and waited an entire month to try it again. 

[olemisscub 510]

These pilots actually left their stews by going out the cockpit window in a 1972 Cooper Copycat hijacking leaving their stews with two men carrying shotguns. Real chivalrous, fellas. 

 

[georger 244]

9 hours ago, Rohmer said:

Minor topic, but what’s the opinion on here regarding Cooper’s choice of Thanksgiving (eve)? It could merely be random of course, but in light of his overall planning & deliberation, I tend to think not.

On a practical level, would he have done it because stews/pilots would’ve had their guard down, with one eye on the holiday? Is that likely, or would the crew have been working Thursday anyway?

If it’s not about that, perhaps he’s buying himself time to get back to his family and/or job. For me this potential rationale would tie into the question of Cooper’s survival. If he had a steady job or an immediate family, I think it’s very likely he survived. Otherwise his sudden absence would’ve been picked up, in my view.

Read the crew interviews - Cooper stated why. 'right plane in the right place at the right time'. He didn't elaborate. He got upset when Tina asked him where he was from. He asked the ticket agent if it was a 727 coming. He wanted a jumpable aircraft. He said he had a grudge, but not against NWO.

Edited February 2, 2023 by georger

[FLYJACK 707]

21 minutes ago, georger said:

He asked the ticket agent if it was a 727 coming. 

Slightly OT,, this was in Gray's book but is there an original source.. it isn't in Lysne's 302.

[ParrotheadVol 70]

49 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Slightly OT,, this was in Gray's book but is there an original source.. it isn't in Lysne's 302.

It may have came from Ralph H?

Prior to Gray's book, the reenactment on the Unsolved Mysteries episode has Cooper asking the ticket agent if the plane is a 727. Ralph was interviewed for that segment, as you know. Or perhaps it was just added in there by whomever put the reenactment together and it just became fact moving forward.

Edited February 2, 2023 by ParrotheadVol

[FLYJACK 707]

2 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

It may have came from Ralph H?

Prior to Gray's book, the reenactment on the Unsolved Mysteries episode has Cooper asking the ticket agent if the plane is a 727. Ralph was interviewed for that segment, as you know. Or perhaps it was just added in there by whomever put the reenactment together and it just became fact moving forward.

I found it in Himmelsbach's book...   GG probably got it from there...

It isn't in the Lysne's FBI 302.. not sure if this is accurate or a manufactured narrative.

Edited February 2, 2023 by FLYJACK