DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 707]

9 minutes ago, Math of Insects said:

Right, but there's a lot of territory between, "That was 50 years ago" and "therefore nothing can be checked." Start with any item from any airplane today. If you don't find the particles, go backward. If you do, stop this silly line of inquiry.

Go swab an antique parachute pack. Or hell, even a current one. This would at least address the goose chase around labs in PA. If you DON'T find a similar profile, keep looking. If you do...bail. 

We all know where those particles are the most likely to have come from. Start at most likely and work backward, not vice versa. 

All that takes time, money and resources.. and even then all the variables can't be controlled.. it would be a massive undertaking even for the FBI..

IMO, it is asking too much of a bunch of amateur sleuths..

We do the best to work within our means..

As for the Ti patent and REMCRU..  it is a stretch to claim exclusivity and we don't even know those particles are an alloy.

[georger 244]

11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Old news.. this was posted many years ago on Shutter's site. 2018

Interesting. So a well known guy everyone knows, conducted the Cooper hijacking. He has  balls .... or is an idiot! 

[olemisscub 510]

7 minutes ago, georger said:

Interesting. So a well known guy everyone knows, conducted the Cooper hijacking. He has  balls .... or is an idiot! 

The hearings were a year after Hahneman's hijacking. He was a nobody just like all the other copycats. I'm not sure precisely sure why this was brought up at the Watergate hearings, but I believe it had something to do with the fact that one of the burglars had some dealings with Honduras. Perhaps the Hahneman hijacking was the only thing this bloviating Congressman knew about Honduras. 

[georger 244]

3 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

The hearings were a year after Hahneman's hijacking. He was a nobody just like all the other copycats. I'm not sure precisely sure why this was brought up at the Watergate hearings, but I believe it had something to do with the fact that one of the burglars had some dealings with Honduras. Perhaps the Hahneman hijacking was the only thing this bloviating Congressman knew about Honduras. 

So the FBI did not check Hahneman. Nobody thought of him. His prints were not on file. His familial dna is not in the system today? . . . . .  

[ParrotheadVol 70]

20 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I must have missed it. That's the problem with mega-threads like this one and the ones over on the other site. Miss a month and you're 50 pages behind. 

That's not really been the case on Shutter's site lately. Miss a month and you only miss a handful of posts. I hope it picks back up. 

 

GO CHIEFS (Can never pull for the Eagles)!!

[olemisscub 510]

10 hours ago, georger said:

So the FBI did not check Hahneman. Nobody thought of him. His prints were not on file. His familial dna is not in the system today? . . . . .  

He’s in the 302’s that have been released. Not much but he’s there. His photos were apparently exhibited to witnesses.

[FLYJACK 707]

The bomb may have been real, at least the electric detonators were..

[olemisscub 510]

Copycat Richard LaPoint's bomb was apparently real. 

 

[FLYJACK 707]

15 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Copycat Richard LaPoint's bomb was apparently real. 

 

Which begs the question..

Where did Cooper get that knowledge.. (radio setting off the detonators) and the confidence to make a bomb.

What is LaPoint's background re: explosives (former paratrooper)

You have to have some explosives experience to make a bomb and have the confidence to carry it on a plane even if only using detonators..

Edited February 12, 2023 by FLYJACK

[Math of Insects 98]

Rem-Cru had an employee-assistance program in the 1960s where they would financially support any technicians and scientists who wanted to learn explosives, skydiving, or air piracy.

[FLYJACK 707]

[FLYJACK 707]

Dan Cooper comic.. Boeing plant.

[olemisscub 510]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Which begs the question..

Where did Cooper get that knowledge.. (radio setting off the detonators) and the confidence to make a bomb.

What is LaPoint's background re: explosives (former paratrooper)

You have to have some explosives experience to make a bomb and have the confidence to carry it on a plane even if only using detonators..

LaPoint was a door gunner in Vietnam. I'm not sure where the media got that he was a paratrooper from, but that was repeated in the papers a bunch at the time. There's no evidence he had jumped before during his civilian or military life. 

Also, investigated him further just now and I'm not sure this is something that needed to be "defused". Sounds like he just had a bunch of flares. 

 

[FLYJACK 707]

Airborne object tracked by military planes over Michigan...

breaking, it has been shot down...

Edited February 12, 2023 by FLYJACK

[WalterRaleigh 9]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:58 AM, olemisscub said:

Hahneman was mentioned in the Watergate Hearings

 

To me, this exchange always felt like a coded message.

[CooperNWO305 151]

22 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Which begs the question..

Where did Cooper get that knowledge.. (radio setting off the detonators) and the confidence to make a bomb.

What is LaPoint's background re: explosives (former paratrooper)

You have to have some explosives experience to make a bomb and have the confidence to carry it on a plane even if only using detonators..

If the bomb was actually radio controlled (which it doesn’t seem to be) then those would be skills possibly only picked up in the military, in a specialized field. Possibly picked up in the civilian world, but less likely. If he was dealing with just dynamite and an electrical blasting cap, then those are still skills, but could be picked up in the military, mining, blasting for construction/roads, etc. He could very well have known explosives, but still made a fake bomb or just a dynamite bomb with regular electric detonator. At that point he just has to pretend it is more high tech than it is. Cooper comes across as a bit of a story teller/embellisher. Carr said “know it all.”  Live wires inside a briefcase makes for good drama, but a simple switch would have been safer for him, albeit less visually dramatic. 

[FLYJACK 707]

51 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

If the bomb was actually radio controlled (which it doesn’t seem to be) then those would be skills possibly only picked up in the military, in a specialized field. Possibly picked up in the civilian world, but less likely. If he was dealing with just dynamite and an electrical blasting cap, then those are still skills, but could be picked up in the military, mining, blasting for construction/roads, etc. He could very well have known explosives, but still made a fake bomb or just a dynamite bomb with regular electric detonator. At that point he just has to pretend it is more high tech than it is. Cooper comes across as a bit of a story teller/embellisher. Carr said “know it all.”  Live wires inside a briefcase makes for good drama, but a simple switch would have been safer for him, albeit less visually dramatic. 

Right, it wasn't radio controlled,,

The wire attached to an electronic detonator creates an "antenna" which can pick up nearby radio signals which may trigger it..

Cooper voiced some concern over that..  which suggests two things,, 

First, he had that somewhat specialized knowledge..

and they were probably real electronic detonators.

Cooper didn't say don't use the radio,, he said use as little as possible..

He knew there was a risk there...

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

Posted about him a few weeks ago but the way that Cooper copycat Melvin Fisher was described by the flight crew is remarkably similar to Cooper, yet Fisher was an unemployed house painter. A total loser essentially. Makes me wonder if we inflate the few statements that we have about Cooper and perhaps turn him into something he was not.

From the UPI article covering his court appearance:

"The captain and two stewardesses, in opening day testimony, said Fisher appeared rational, coherent and knew a lot about airplanes."

"Capt. Charles Dodds said it became apparent that Fisher, 49, 'knew a little more than the average person knew' about flying when he told Dodds it would be all right to take off with a tailwind if the wind was less than 10 knots. 'Also', Dodds said, 'he knew about our dual communication system.' "

"Dodds said at one point, Fisher told him an exact pattern to fly and at what altitude, and insisted that he lower the rear stairwell and lower the flaps to slow the airplane."

"Dodds said Fisher appeared 'very, very reasonable.' "

"Dodds said he received a note from Fisher which said '$550,000 in circulated $100 bills and a parachute.' "

"Stewardess Susan Sigmier...testified that Fisher appeared 'calm'. 'I'm sure he was nervous, but he didn't act real nervous and was real courteous,' she said."

Interestingly, in the Fisher case, he brought a briefcase on board that had a fake bomb that he showed to the crew and also had walkie-talkies with him. He had one of them taken to the pilot, which is how they communicated.  

 

[FLYJACK 707]

Ulis had the Penny's tie dating wrong for years,, because he stole it from my old post's he didn't really understand it.. I didn't reveal everything. He twisted it to fit his Sheridan narrative.

He claimed 1962/63 to fit Sheridan at Boeing.. it was BS.. when I called him on it he just ignored me..

Recently, he finally acknowledged the correct date ignoring he was wrong for the last 6 years, but claims he figured it out.. I had always pointed out that Ulis was wrong and the earliest the tie was sold was early 1964..

What Ulis didn't know then was that the Penny's logo was first changed November 24, 1963.. that started with store signage and marketing. The logo on Cooper's tie never existed before November 24, 1963 and didn't show up on products until early 1964.. There is also another clue on the tie..

So, the logo dates the tie to earliest about Spring 1964..

the patents date the tie to late 1964 and sold probably by Spring 1965 depending on inventory turnover.

We can date the tie from about Spring 1964 to about Spring 1965.

 

Penny's ad on top Nov 20,1963 with old logo.

Penny's ad on bottom Nov 27, 1963 with new logo.

(There is other documentation for the logo change date)

Edited February 13, 2023 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 707]

28 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Posted about him a few weeks ago but the way that Cooper copycat Melvin Fisher was described by the flight crew is remarkably similar to Cooper, yet Fisher was an unemployed house painter. A total loser essentially. Makes me wonder if we inflate the few statements that we have about Cooper and perhaps turn him into something he was not.

From the UPI article covering his court appearance:

"The captain and two stewardesses, in opening day testimony, said Fisher appeared rational, coherent and knew a lot about airplanes."

"Capt. Charles Dodds said it became apparent that Fisher, 49, 'knew a little more than the average person knew' about flying when he told Dodds it would be all right to take off with a tailwind if the wind was less than 10 knots. 'Also', Dodds said, 'he knew about our dual communication system.' "

"Dodds said at one point, Fisher told him an exact pattern to fly and at what altitude, and insisted that he lower the rear stairwell and lower the flaps to slow the airplane."

"Dodds said Fisher appeared 'very, very reasonable.' "

"Dodds said he received a note from Fisher which said '$550,000 in circulated $100 bills and a parachute.' "

"Stewardess Susan Sigmier...testified that Fisher appeared 'calm'. 'I'm sure he was nervous, but he didn't act real nervous and was real courteous,' she said."

Interestingly, in the Fisher case, he brought a briefcase on board that had a fake bomb that he showed to the crew and also had walkie-talkies with him. He had one of them taken to the pilot, which is how they communicated.  

 

That is an issue with observational evidence.. vs facts..

You can always raise doubt with observational evidence but then you have nothing left..

Blevins claims Cooper wasn't Latin/Swarthy but he just had a tan..

Edwards claims Cooper was White not Latino...

Observational evidence is valid, it just needs to have context.

This case is dominated by observational evidence.

Even the FBI admitted in 1976 they didn't have the evidence for a prosecution without Cooper's co-operation..

[Math of Insects 98]

I think he was just saying that the conclusions we are drawing from that (presumably accurate) observational evidence might be an overreach, since that same evidence was noted in a different case, with a very different conclusion. Not calling the observations themselves into question.

[Coopericane 44]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:58 AM, olemisscub said:

Hahneman was mentioned in the Watergate Hearings

 

Funny, from a certain point of view, one might say that this conversation contains one Cooper suspect being questioned about another Cooper suspect...

Edited February 14, 2023 by Coopericane

[ParrotheadVol 70]

10 hours ago, Coopericane said:

Funny, from a certain point of view, one might say that this conversation contains one Cooper suspect being questioned about another Cooper suspect...

I noticed that as well, although Hunt is one of the more ridiculous "suspects". 

[olemisscub 510]

Got bored and decided to try and make Flo's Dracula looking sketch more like a traditional Cooper sketch. 

 

[WalterRaleigh 9]

13 hours ago, ParrotheadVol said:

I noticed that as well, although Hunt is one of the more ridiculous "suspects". 

I agree.  Hunt was a middle manager.  Hunt never got his hands dirty on any operation (except maybe during WWII).  Always the messenger between the white-shoe decision makers and the CIA "contractors" who actually carried out the task at-hand....part of his lifelong frustration was being stuck outside of the inner circle.    I can't imagine he'd have felt comfortable pulling off the Cooper hijack, he just didn't have the experience.  That said, he would have known EXACTLY who to recruit to get the job done.