DB Cooper

[Robert99 50]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

so why are the timestamps in McClelland's, Griffin's, and Lowenthal's all in sync for all the other important events? They all have 8:05 for attempting to contact hijacker. Timestamps at 8:00 and 8:02 are consistent among all three. They are even back in sync AFTER the discrepancy. McClelland and Lowenthal have 8:30 for Soderlind suggesting that Tina try to communicate with Cooper. 

So what gives?

They were obviously not on the phone patch and were getting their times from the teletype printouts.

Are the Stuart and Jim McClellands you mentioned the same person?

[olemisscub 510]

35 minutes ago, Robert99 said:

They were obviously not on the phone patch and were getting their times from the teletype printouts.

Are the Stuart and Jim McClellands you mentioned the same person?

ok...

And no, Jim McClellan was a pilot who was the center of the "light aircraft" lead that came out of La Center. 

But people with knowledge of the set up at Sea-Tac have been spoken to recently and it was stated that everyone whose notes are in the Harrison files were listening to the same feed in the same room. 

[olemisscub 510]

Latest Vault Drop. More of nothing. 

 

D.B. Cooper Skyjacking Part 83.pdf

[Robert99 50]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

ok...

And no, Jim McClellan was a pilot who was the center of the "light aircraft" lead that came out of La Center. 

But people with knowledge of the set up at Sea-Tac have been spoken to recently and it was stated that everyone whose notes are in the Harrison files were listening to the same feed in the same room. 

Did they take their notes as they listened or did they write them up, or add to them, later?

Do you know where the teletype machine was located?  Was it in the same room with them?  Who was acting as the "communicator" with the aircraft?

The communicator would probably be the NWA Chief Pilot at SEATAC (Lee ???) but George Harrison would be on that phone patch in Seattle as well.  Soderlind was also on the phone patch in Minneapolis.

[georger 244]

Edwards invoking Occam's razor is a cop-out !  There is no evidence that Cooper money fell directly from the plane into the Columbia River. Or any river anywhere. That is the conundrum Occam's razor cannot solve. Occam's razor is not even germane to the issues involved!

There is no evidence that Cooper bailed into the Columbia River and all known facts suggest that did not happen nor could it have happened. Invoking Occam's razor does not even apply!

Occam's razor is a figure of speech that reminds us of the value of simplicity.  But life and the real world are often not simple. When you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras, or turtles, or frogs! Context matters. The context for money being at Tena Bar started somewhere back around BTL VOR or earlier, not over the Columbia minutes later.  Cooper and the money were probably gone before the plane got near the Columbia.  

There is no substitute for evidence.

Edited June 8, 2023 by georger

[Robert99 50]

45 minutes ago, georger said:

Edwards invoking Occam's razor is a cop-out !  There is no evidence that Cooper money fell directly from the plane into the Columbia River. Or any river anywhere. That is the conundrum Occam's razor cannot solve. Occam's razor is not even germane to the issues involved!

There is no evidence that Cooper bailed into the Columbia River and all known facts suggest that did not happen nor could it have happened. Invoking Occam's razor does not even apply!

Occam's razor is a figure of speech that reminds us of the value of simplicity.  But life and the real world are often not simple. When you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras, or turtles, or frogs! Context matters. The context for money being at Tena Bar started somewhere back around BTL VOR or earlier, not over the Columbia minutes later.  Cooper and the money were probably gone before the plane got near the Columbia.  

There is no substitute for evidence.

Georger, just exactly where is the BTL VOR?

[georger 244]

21 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Georger, just exactly where is the BTL VOR?

BTG: BATTLE GROUND VORTAC BATTLE GROUND, WA. Location. Lat/Long: 45-44-52.120N / 122-35-29.532W (45.7478111/-122.5915367) Elevation: 253.3 ft.

sorry for the typo - are you happy now prick ? 

Edited June 9, 2023 by georger

[Robert99 50]

1 hour ago, georger said:

BTG: BATTLE GROUND VORTAC BATTLE GROUND, WA. Location. Lat/Long: 45-44-52.120N / 122-35-29.532W (45.7478111/-122.5915367) Elevation: 253.3 ft.

sorry for the typo - are you happy now prick ? 

I have corrected the typos in your response above which now correctly reads:

"Sorry for the typo - are you happy now? (Signed) Prick."

Georger, you need a spelling and grammar checker.

[olemisscub 510]

Georger those FBI agents you spoke to were full of it!

 

[georger 244]

40 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Georger those FBI agents you spoke to were full of it!

 

I just took the reports. I never know how representative those reports are. Contrary to some, I am not pushing an agenda. I just want the money facts whatever they are. The reason I keep this alive is that we had a prior solution, or I thought we had, involving Ckret and his work, but maybe not? From my point of view this is all very perplexing. Even vexing. The minute you think a problem is solved, then the next day it may not be solved!  CC's interview of Grinnel is ambiguous to me. And I have no reason to doubt the agents I spoke with regarding their experiences with banks packaging ransoms in cases these agents worked. Both versions could be true - different practices in different parts of the country ?   Ransoms historically have evidently been prepared in a number of ways.

So far as I know, there is no law or policy which demands that bank ransoms must be prepared in a certain way  ?  

On another note, Edwards has posted below regarding a Loadmaster that vanished - interesting!

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2500530.Robert_H_Edwards/blog

D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: the C-124 connection

'My reason for telling this man’s story was that, sometime in the 1970s, one of his former classmates told the FBI that he was a dead ringer for the sketches of ‘D. B. Cooper’ that were then circulating in the press. The FBI never followed that up, and the man from Oregon disappeared from history. I have no reason to believe that he was the hijacker of Flight 305.'

Hope you can make progress with this. Can you tell more ?

Can anyone prove this suspect vanished for all time immediately after the Cooper hijacking ?

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by georger

[Coopericane 44]

1 hour ago, georger said:

On another note, Edwards has posted below regarding a Loadmaster that vanished - interesting!

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2500530.Robert_H_Edwards/blog

D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: the C-124 connection

'My reason for telling this man’s story was that, sometime in the 1970s, one of his former classmates told the FBI that he was a dead ringer for the sketches of ‘D. B. Cooper’ that were then circulating in the press. The FBI never followed that up, and the man from Oregon disappeared from history. I have no reason to believe that he was the hijacker of Flight 305.'

Hope you can make progress with this. Can you tell more ?

Can anyone prove this suspect vanished for all time immediately after the Cooper hijacking ?

 

The only place I could find "loadmaster" in the FBI files is in this mysterious two-page note, though it doesn't match all the details of Dr. Edward's story, so I'm skeptical it's the right person. The suspect was apparently alive and well until at least 1984.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Coopericane

[olemisscub 510]

This is the guy from Doc's book. Wasn't too hard for me to find him after I read that part in the book. It matches up with the FOIA doc and most of what Doc wrote about him. He definitely didn't "disappear from history". 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/36453213/arthur-leslie-wilkie

this is his photo from the yearbook Doc refers to in the book. 

[georger 244]

2 hours ago, Coopericane said:

The only place I could find "loadmaster" in the FBI files is in this mysterious two-page note, though it doesn't match all the details of Dr. Edward's story, so I'm skeptical it's the right person. The suspect was apparently alive and well until at least 1984.

I just assumed Edwards and you were collaborating on this?  Is that incorrect?  Did Edwards arrive at this suspect all on his own ?  You do know Carr suggested a loadmaster. Did Carr find something in the files, that made him cite 'loadmaster' ? ..........................  a person who literally vanishes after the hijacking ?  Does Edwards really have evidence for that claim ?   ......................  interesting. a breakthrough?

Edited June 11, 2023 by georger

[olemisscub 510]

20 minutes ago, georger said:

I just assumed Edwards and you were collaborating on this?  Is that incorrect?  Did Edwards arrive at this suspect all on his own ?  You do know Carr suggested a loadmaster. Did Carr find something in the files, that made him cite 'loadmaster' ? ..........................  a person who literally vanishes after the hijacking ?  Does Edwards really have evidence for that claim ?   ......................  interesting. a breakthrough?

no one vanished after the hijacking. I found the guy from the 302 and Doc's book. This isn't a breakthrough. 

[Coopericane 44]

15 minutes ago, georger said:

I just assumed Edwards and you were collaborating on this?  Is that incorrect?  Did Edwards arrive at this suspect all on his own ?  You do know Carr suggested a loadmaster. Did Carr find something in the files, that made him cite 'loadmaster' ? ..........................  a person who literally vanishes after the hijacking ?  Does Edwards really have evidence for that claim ?   ......................  interesting. a breakthrough?

No, I don't know how he came to this guy... I am just trying to figure out who this mysterious loadmaster was!

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

This is the guy from Doc's book. Wasn't too hard for me to find him after I read that part in the book. It matches up with the FOIA doc and most of what Doc wrote about him. He definitely didn't "disappear from history". 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/36453213/arthur-leslie-wilkie

this is his photo from the yearbook Doc refers to in the book. 

Is this the same guy from the 302s I posted? He fits the yearbook story and "Art" seems like it would fit the instances of his redacted (nick)name... but Edwards said he came to the FBI's attention in the 70's, and that note was sent in 1997. And holy cow, those are some big and prominent ears!

[olemisscub 510]

12 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

No, I don't know how he came to this guy... I am just trying to figure out who this mysterious loadmaster was!

Is this the same guy from the 302s I posted? He fits the yearbook story and "Art" seems like it would fit the instances of his redacted (nick)name... but Edwards said he came to the FBI's attention in the 70's, and that note was sent in 1997. And holy cow, those are some big and prominent ears!

It's 100% the same guy. Doc was using some literary license for some of what he wrote about "Art."

And yes, I was a bit excited on my search to find the guy but when I found his photo I just chuckled because ya, those ears would be pretty noticeable. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by olemisscub

[georger 244]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

It's 100% the same guy. Doc was using some literary license for some of what he wrote about "Art."

And yes, I was a bit excited on my search to find the guy but when I found his photo I just chuckled because ya, those ears would be pretty noticeable. 

Best of luck with this!  

[georger 244]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

This is the guy from Doc's book. Wasn't too hard for me to find him after I read that part in the book. It matches up with the FOIA doc and most of what Doc wrote about him. He definitely didn't "disappear from history". 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/36453213/arthur-leslie-wilkie

this is his photo from the yearbook Doc refers to in the book. 

This image is in the ballpark ... on first base ? Those ears . . . facial proportions etc.  Age it a bit ? 

[georger 244]

Unabomber Ted Kaczynski dies by possible suicide in prison:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/unabomber-ted-kaczynski-found-dead-jail-cell/story?id=99984583

[olemisscub 510]

7 minutes ago, georger said:

Best of luck with this!  

Luck with what? I’m not investigating the guy. Those ears are worse than McCoy’s.

On second thought, it’s uncanny:

 

[georger 244]

12 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Luck with what? I’m not investigating the guy. Those ears are worse than McCoy’s.

On second thought, it’s uncanny:

 

I get your point - Tina should see this.

[olemisscub 510]

fwiw, Ted had an attaché case and what looked like an olive drab military parachute in his cabin lol

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by olemisscub

[JAGdb 89]

10 hours ago, olemisscub said:

This is the guy from Doc's book. Wasn't too hard for me to find him after I read that part in the book. It matches up with the FOIA doc and most of what Doc wrote about him. He definitely didn't "disappear from history". 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/36453213/arthur-leslie-wilkie

this is his photo from the yearbook Doc refers to in the book. 

If it wasn't for the large ears, it's not a bad likeness at all.

The hair is cut short in the picture, so hard to say if it could be wavy or not if it grew out.

Can't tell the eye color for sure, seems to be brown.

Is that the JC Penny Town and Country tie ???  (lol, just kidding)

Anyway, appreciate you guys tracking this down, I have been wondering about Dr. Edwards loadmaster for a while also.  It would be interesting to see an older image of him.

[georger 244]

14 hours ago, olemisscub said:

fwiw, Ted had an attaché case and what looked like an olive drab military parachute in his cabin lol

 

 

Ted had a little wagon he could pull behind his bike that he used to transport things back to his cabin.

I wonder what a particle list from Ted's tie would look like ? Or ties from any of the other 'guys who live in the woods' ?  Guess it would depend on whatever they were collecting, stealing, manufacturing, . . . things that are in the area trash dump etc (from as far away as Helena!)

Edited June 11, 2023 by georger

[dudeman17 340]

8 hours ago, georger said:

I wonder what a particle list from Ted's tie would look like ? Or ties from any of the other 'guys who live in the woods' ?

I would hope that one of the perks of living in a shack in the woods would be NOT wearing a tie!