DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 692]

Tosaw's book is very accurate but he did rely on others for info.

Cossey assisted Tosaw for his book,,,  and lied.

Cossey given credit for assisting...

 

This is a lie...  to cover Cossey's conflation of Hayden's rigs with his personal rigs.

 

More lies... from Cossey, claims he was paid $50 for Cooper's rig and the other rig was returned to him.

Edited December 30, 2024 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 692]

Was Cooper the last to board or second to last??

and if he was second to last who was last?

Flo, thought second to last..

'

 

Gregory though he might have been the last to board..

 

Tosaw's book Mitchell was before Cooper, but he didn't speak to Mitchell. he did speak to the stews.

 

Mitchell wasn't sure..

 

It appears Cooper was likely second to last to board but after Mitchell, perhaps Gregory was last.. if so that may be why he would have chosen the left side.

 

[FLYJACK 692]

In Tosaw's book the F-106's got behind flight 305 heading at 148 degrees that is SSE,, and essentially eliminates the Western flightpath.

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 508]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Tosaw's book Mitchell was before Cooper, but he didn't speak to Mitchell. he did speak to the stews.

Mitchell 100% spoke to Tosaw. I've had conversations with Bill about his experience with "Mr. Tosaw" (as Bill calls him). 

I've spoken to Bill recently about another issue, mainly about the obnoxious drunk. He said that it was an "elderly man" sitting in front of him. The only elderly person on the flight was Robert Gregory, who would have been sitting back there. I sent him photos of Gregory and Labissoniere (my candidate for the drunk) and he says he really can't recall the actual face. He remembers the drunk making the FBI agent on the bus doing the roll call laugh by asking "hey, how long is all this going to take, I've got to piss." 

Gregory's description is pretty thorough, so I just don't think it's him. Lab's testimony, on the other hand, reads like a drunk man's recollection of the events on the plane. Cooper wearing a "blazer and sporty vest". What? Lab also refers to having to take numerous trips to the bathroom and had a DUI at one point. Plus his hair is all disheveled in the video of him coming in the airport and I think he even looks a little drunk. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 692]

24 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Mitchell 100% spoke to Tosaw. I've had conversations with Bill about his experience with "Mr. Tosaw" (as Bill calls him). 

I've spoken to Bill recently about another issue, mainly about the obnoxious drunk. He said that it was an "elderly man" sitting in front of him. The only elderly person on the flight was Robert Gregory, who would have been sitting back there. I sent him photos of Gregory and Labissoniere (my candidate for the drunk) and he says he really can't recall the actual face. He remembers the drunk making the FBI agent on the bus doing the roll call laugh by asking "hey, how long is all this going to take, I've got to piss." 

Gregory's description is pretty thorough, so I just don't think it's him. Lab's testimony, on the other hand, reads like a drunk man's recollection of the events on the plane. Cooper wearing a "blazer and sporty vest". What? Lab also refers to having to take numerous trips to the bathroom and had a DUI at one point. Plus his hair is all disheveled in the video of him coming in the airport and I think he even looks a little drunk. 

Tosaw named the people he spoke with, odd he didn't mention Bill..  but, point is if Mitchell boarded before Cooper that is why Cooper chose the left side...

[FLYJACK 692]

Updated analysis Cooper left the plane between 20:11 and 20:12.

While not conclusive it is very strong new evidence.

 

If Cooper jumped then he could have drifted up to 6 miles if he pulled right away, or if he pulled late 1 mile drift and he might be virtually under the path as it has a 1 mile error. Depending on the wind direction at that location he could have landed just N of the Lewis R.

I would estimate a 20:11 - 20:12 jump at 95%...

Edited December 31, 2024 by FLYJACK

[georger 242]

On 12/30/2024 at 4:23 PM, FLYJACK said:

Tosaw named the people he spoke with, odd he didn't mention Bill..  but, point is if Mitchell boarded before Cooper that is why Cooper chose the left side...

Saw JAG's post with new url for this forum - glad it is back!! Thanks.....

[georger 242]

e

On 12/30/2024 at 1:56 PM, FLYJACK said:

In Tosaw's book the F-106's got behind flight 305 heading at 148 degrees that is SSE,, and essentially eliminates the Western flightpath.

 

My issue with Tosaw is the issue of "authenticity". He had no formal role or assignment in the Cooper case, just as in he had no formal assignment or role in Kinnick case, but that did not stop him from issuing 'press announcements' and making 'claims' that resulted in a 'issue' for all kinds of people to have to deal with. Having just announced his involvement in the Nile Kinnick case at Iowa City, he then calls the "Daily Iowan", a small inconspicuous university newspaper and announces to the world that he will now involve himself in the DB Cooper case - too!  In other words, the Great Investigator "Tosaw" will now SOLVE the DB Cooper case too, his announcement immediately following the discovery of Cooper money at Tena Bar! People reading this at Iowa City laughed and wondered: What is this? 

Tosaw told the people working for him on the Columbia that he was FBI and being fed the latest information by .......................  the FBI and experts working on the case. Years later Tosaw has nothing to show for his efforts except for a book, and Nile Kinnick's plane is not raised ... and Tosaw's insistence that a piece of Kinnick's plane be mounted as a memorial to Nile Kinnick outside the front door of Kinnick Stadium does not happen in spite of Tosaw's insistence that 'he is expressing the wishes of the Nile  Kinnick family! 

The whole thing is a little bit embarrassing ... thus I have to question Tosaw's authenticity and the accuracy of his information, as a general premise ?

Tosaw did find Kinnick's plane in the ocean off Argentina using coordinates recorded in the ship's log, but he had nothing remotely similar (so far as anyone knows) in the Cooper case. Years later he jumped to announce Janet Wink's story even though that disagreed with his own previous 'estimates' about where Cooper had to have jumped sand landed.

Time and circumstance has eroded chapters in the full Tosaw story. 

Edited Saturday at 09:44 PM by georger

[dudeman17 335]

23 hours ago, georger said:

Saw JAG's post with new url for this forum

Where was that at? I just saw your post at Shutter's site. Only a couple other posts on this site so far, apparently the word isn't out yet?

[georger 242]

3 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Where was that at? I just saw your post at Shutter's site. Only a couple other posts on this site so far, apparently the word isn't out yet?

It was at Bruce Smith's  Mountain News posted by JAG ... word will get out!

JAG says:

January 3, 2025 at 5:02 pm

dropzone is now skydiveforum:

https://www.skydiveforum.com/forums/topic/56036-db-cooper/page/2564/

Reply

• brucesmith49 says:

  January 3, 2025 at 6:10 pm

  Good to know. Thanks

Edited Sunday at 07:57 AM by georger

[georger 242]

Interesting article on Tosaw :::::

UPI Archives

Nov. 23, 1982

Former FBI agent claims D.B. Cooper survived his jump

By

CLYDE JABIN

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Legendary skyjacker D.B. Cooper survived his parachuting from a airliner on Thanksgiving Eve 11 years ago but lost the $200,000 ransom in the Columbia River, a former FBI agent says.

Richard Tosaw, now a Ceres, Calif., attorney, is backing his theory by paying for a 27-foot boat to drag the river dividing Oregon and Washington near where some of the $20 bills that were part of the loot were found nearly three years ago.

'So far all they have found is inner tubes, tires, household appliances, pieces of trees and other articles,' he said. 'It is going to be interesting if they find anything (from the skyjacking).'

Tosaw is hoping boat owner Blake Payne and crewman Bill Sweeney will either find more of the money, the bank money bag or the parachute.

Tosaw, 57, who is writing a book on the skyjacking, is making a check on the progress of the search. About $5,800 of the ransom was found Feb. 10, 1980, by Brian Ingram, who now lives in Highland, Calif.

Because the money was found along the Columbia, Tosaw figures Cooper came down further south than the area southwest of volcanic Mount St. Helens where the FBI thought he landed. Extensive searches immediately after the Nov. 24, 1971, skyjacking failed to turn up a clue and officials speculated Cooper had died.

Tosaw, who was an FBI agent from 1951 to 1955, said he became interested in the crime after part of the loot was found. Since then he has done extensive research -- interviewing the six crew members on the Northwest Airlines Flight 305 that was hijacked on a Portland to Seattle run and other people involved in the case.

He also surveyed 100 parachutists on whether they thought Cooper could have survived the jump from the rear door of a Boeing 727. He said 70 percent of those he checked believe the skyjacker could have survived frigid temperatures if he had served in the military as a parachutist, as Tosaw theorizes.

'He was in his early 40s at the time of the skyjacking, which means he would have been at the right age to be in the Korean War, possibly as a Green Beret,' Tosaw said. 'He learned his parachuting somewhere.'

The attorney said his view of Cooper as a veteran was also based on the skyjacker's choice of parachutes airline officials provided. He said Cooper took a khaki-colored back chute rather than a 'more comfortable' white civilian chest chute he also was given.

In addition, Tosaw said Cooper did not appear to be a 'loner' whose disappearance would not have been noticed. He said he thinks Cooper returned home after jettisoning the heavy money bag loose after landing in the river.

'He had a mother, father, girlfriend or wife who would have reported him missing otherwise,' Tosaw said.

Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram for more UPI news and photos.

 

[olemisscub 508]

On 1/4/2025 at 3:20 PM, georger said:

 

My issue with Tosaw is the issue of "authenticity". He had no formal role or assignment in the Cooper case, just as in he had no formal assignment or role in Kinnick case, but that did not stop him from issuing 'press announcements' and making 'claims' that resulted in a 'issue' for all kinds of people to have to deal with.

 

Portland office weren't fans of his....

[georger 242]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Portland office weren't fans of his....

You and FJ have such a total grasp of these files - its a pleasure to just come here to read!

[FLYJACK 692]

I have zero interest in Tosaw's opinions and actions...

His contribution to the case is his book because he interviewed so many relevant people,,

It is very accurate in that context, of course Cossey lied to him and there are some minor errors here and there...  even Alice liked the book..

but overall it is a very important Cooper book.

[FLYJACK 692]

Cooper jumped at 8:11, I have new data and it is irrefutable. He did not jump later. I always felt it may have been as far south as Battleground but no longer. I won't post the data because it wouldn't matter to most and I am using it for my project.

 

This is NOT Cooper's forehead Ryan..

These are not average forehead lines, these are extreme deep lines that go right down the temple. 

No Cooper witness mentioned forehead lines like this.

Skip was not Cooper. Any objective person can understand this.

This is the equivalent of Reca's nose....

and he doesn't have wavy, curly, marcelled hair...

Skip may be an interesting guy but he clearly was NOT Cooper.

 

Sketch A vs B...  more nonsense..

Sketch B is the best likeness... It is essentially a widened version of A with the nose also proportionally widened. It is also aged and coloured. I have lots of evidence to support this maybe one day I'll post it but I don't think people really understand it with the misinformation out there.. sketch B was not created ONLY because of an error, that was incidental not causative. 

Ryan's argument that the error caused B and therefore B is not accurate is unfounded speculation. It is a logical non-sequitur.

The FBI said B is the most accurate and I have undisclosed evidence that proves B is more accurate..  though still a composite sketch. 

The idea that a Cooper suspect must match A and not B is actually insane.

Edited Monday at 04:21 PM by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 508]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

The idea that a Cooper suspect must match A and not B is actually insane.

Find someone WITHOUT a suspect who actually agrees with you that a sketch drawn from scratch two days after an event is somehow LESS accurate than an identikit sketch created 9 to 12 months after an event. 

The main witnesses liked A days after the event

The main witnesses liked B a year after the event

Because these two look like different individuals, they can't both be right, so I'll go with the earliest sketch as being the more accurate of the two. 

And hey, if your supposed photo of Cooper looks like B, then more power to you. I have no dog in this fight. I could care less if my opinion on which sketch is better is realized one day or not. I'm just being logical and logic suggests that a memory two days after an event is better than one a year later. 

[olemisscub 508]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

 

This is NOT Cooper's forehead Ryan..

These are not average forehead lines, these are extreme deep lines that go right down the temple.

and he doesn't have wavy, curly, marcelled hair... 

You're picking out photos of him with his eyebrows raised. His forehead lines weren't normally that dramatic in any other photos I've seen of him. And his hair is super short in those photos you posted. What mainly eliminates him in my mind is his nose. He has a nose like your guy Bill. 

 

[FLYJACK 692]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Find someone WITHOUT a suspect who actually agrees with you that a sketch drawn from scratch two days after an event is somehow LESS accurate than an identikit sketch created 9 to 12 months after an event. 

The main witnesses liked A days after the event

The main witnesses liked B a year after the event

Because these two look like different individuals, they can't both be right, so I'll go with the earliest sketch as being the more accurate of the two. 

And hey, if your supposed photo of Cooper looks like B, then more power to you. I have no dog in this fight. I could care less if my opinion on which sketch is better is realized one day or not. I'm just being logical and logic suggests that a memory two days after an event is better than one a year later. 

I don't have to find anything,,

The FBI stated Sketch B is the most accurate.

Your argument is speculative. The actual construction of your argument is flawed. 

It is nonsense and ignores the context.

Your premise's are bad.

The error is the ONLY reason for B,, nonsense

You claim that 3 witnesses sitting together is somehow more reliable. False. This is never done, they can influence each other. 

Witnesses should be interviewed separately.

and Murphy was liked by witnesses, he matches B very well below the sunglasses, sketch A does not.

You have an opinion with nothing to back it up.

B is more accurate, the evidence indicates it, the FBI said it and the process was more comprehensive.

 

Murphy sketch A vs B... B is much better.

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:46 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 692]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

You're picking out photos of him with his eyebrows raised. His forehead lines weren't normally that dramatic in any other photos I've seen of him. And his hair is super short in those photos you posted. What mainly eliminates him in my mind is his nose. He has a nose like your guy Bill. 

 

That is a washed out photo and he looks younger there, no turkey neck.. 

I posted images that accurately show his forehead details..

Get real Ryan. No way those EXTREME forehead lines were NOT noticed by witnesses.. not one.

Just those extreme forehead lines alone eliminates him.

His nose is irrelevant.

This is closer to the hijacking...

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:22 PM by FLYJACK

[georger 242]

Prints are a big issue in this case. The FBI has used prints to evaluate suspects endlessly, except we are told the prints collected were of no value! It cant be both. Have value but were of no value! If the prints had no value then every single case of using them, had no value - over and over again endlessly! 

[FLYJACK 692]

36 minutes ago, georger said:

Prints are a big issue in this case. The FBI has used prints to evaluate suspects endlessly, except we are told the prints collected were of no value! It cant be both. Have value but were of no value! If the prints had no value then every single case of using them, had no value - over and over again endlessly! 

Very astute..

If the DNA is a dead end and the prints have no value,,,

How do we put a suspect on the plane and solve this 100%??

This is the dilemma I have been working on..

[georger 242]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Very astute..

If the DNA is a dead end and the prints have no value,,,

How do we put a suspect on the plane and solve this 100%??

This is the dilemma I have been working on..

Even better - how can they keep processing and rejecting suspects on prints ?  Unless, there are more prints collected after Reno that have never been revealed so far ?

Edited 23 hours ago by georger

[FLYJACK 692]

3 hours ago, georger said:

Even better - how can they keep processing and rejecting suspects on prints ?  Unless, there are more prints collected after Reno that have never been revealed so far ?

Not sure if they rejected suspects only based on prints.

I never used DNA or print results as the sole reason for elimination.

It was probably more of a fishing expedition,,,

[FLYJACK 692]

Blevins posted this..

Cooper sleuth Meyer Louie passes away...

 

[georger 242]

16 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Blevins posted this..

Cooper sleuth Meyer Louie passes away...

 

Very sorry to hear this. This is a loss and a personal loss. Meyer and I discussed the Cooper case by telephone over the years. Aside from his interest in the Cooper case (Meyer collected many sand samples for people and participated in many explorations of the Tena Bar area...) Meyer was interested in Cooper's grudge and what Cooper meant by 'this was the right plane in the right place at the right time,'. Meyer thought if we could get to the bottom of that, it would identify who Cooper was. 'Was the hijacking spontaneous or something Cooper had been planning for and was going to do, inevitably'. On a personal level, Meyer played a vital service role in his community over many years, educationally and socially. This is a loss for many people for many reasons. Meyer's enthusiasm and activism will be missed by many people ... travel well my friend!  

Edited 6 hours ago by georger