DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 697]

A few corrections...

Horn rimmed glasses are not defined by the corner shape but by the frame material.

Originally there were wire frame and horn/tortoise frame glasses.. plastic/acetate replaced horn/tortoise but the name remained.

Horn rimmed refers to thick plastic frames that replaced/mimicked horn/tortoise frames..

So, Cooper's glasses can be wraparound AND horn rimmed.. 

Cooper's glasses in the sketch closely match Ray Ban Balorama's or Chalet..

There were a few similar styles that could have prescription lenses..

Balorama's..

 

Ray Ban Chalet.

 

The sunglasses Cunningham found were NOT Cooper's.. they have no bottom rim. Like the FP time shift and Skip the Vortex is getting polluted with nonsense.

 

Aslo..

The Hick's placard was debunked years ago.

No, Norjak did not have the decal that matches the Hick's placard. There was an optional emergency release for 727's which had a handle in the stairwell and below from outside access, NORJAK did not have this option.

There were a few different decals used on the outside of 727's.

Hick's placard. Note the number of lines and length/position of lines.

 

NORJAK, it is missing most of the decal.. text lines do not match Hick's placard..

 

Pursuit of DB Cooper plane, decal also missing part of the decal.. also does not match Hick's placard. Same location as Norjak.

 

Not all 727's had the same placard's there were several different placards used at that location.

Norjak did not have that specific Hick's placard.

 

Edited January 12 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 697]

Cooper took food...

[olemisscub 510]

On 1/12/2025 at 10:32 AM, FLYJACK said:

Cooper took food...

This news report is in my book and I'm confident this is almost certainly from the dogs. Rataczak said the first thing the K-9's did was take the steaks out of the crew meals. The FBI dudes who came on later wouldn't have known about that and made an assumption. 

Please don't fight this. You can just say "Yeah, I guess that makes more sense." 

Edited January 14 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 510]

Larry said last night that Cossey told him that the ripcord handle was moved higher on the same side as it always was, not moved across the chest. He also told Larry that this had been an old chute of his that he repurposed and sold to Hayden, not that they were his parachutes from his residence or his own personal chutes from Issaquah. 

That can't be totally accurate though, because Cossey would never jump with an emergency rig that didn't have D-rings for a reserve. 

[olemisscub 510]

On 1/12/2025 at 8:45 AM, FLYJACK said:

 

Norjak did not have that specific Hick's placard.

 

Hard to tell. Port side of stairs on NORJAK plane had a square placard. Not sure if same one. Quality isn't good enough. 

[olemisscub 510]

On 1/12/2025 at 8:45 AM, FLYJACK said:

Balorama's..

 

I agree with this assessment. They look very close and fit within all of the descriptions.

 

 

 

Edited January 14 by olemisscub

[randy233 5]

17 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Larry said last night that Cossey told him that the ripcord handle was moved higher on the same side as it always was, not moved across the chest. He also told Larry that this had been an old chute of his that he repurposed and sold to Hayden, not that they were his parachutes from his residence or his own personal chutes from Issaquah. 

That can't be totally accurate though, because Cossey would never jump with an emergency rig that didn't have D-rings for a reserve. 

I am listening to it right now, couldn't join the livestream because of the time difference.

Question: if an FBI agent gets assigned to the Cooper case does that mean he/she only has that case and nothing else? Is it a full time job or do they handle other cases too?

 

Edited January 14 by randy233

[olemisscub 510]

7 minutes ago, randy233 said:

I am listening to it right now, couldn't join the livestream because of the time difference.

Question: if an FBI agent gets assigned to the Cooper case does that mean he/she only has that case and nothing else? Is it a full time job or do they handle other cases too?

 

It's what is called a "hobby case", meaning that the Bureau really only wants you working on it on your free time. Larry only studied the case when he went home. He said he'd just take copies of the documents home with him to read at night or weekends. Of course, sometimes you'd work the case during "work hours", but they really preferred you not to do that. I think that is what got Larry in trouble with his bosses. By going to the media about it, it brought in more leads which meant A) Seattle Office had to answer more calls from people, and 2) that Larry would have to spend more actual "company time" working the case. 

Larry didn't throw the current guy under the bus on the interview, but privately he said he doubts the current case agent has done any substantial work at all on this case. He said he'd be surprised if the current agent has even bothered to spend any time at all on the Gryder chute since it was retrieved last year. Current case agent apparently has a large sized role in something involving Asian gangs in Seattle. 

[FLYJACK 697]

55 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

This news report is in my book and I'm confident this is almost certainly from the dogs. Rataczak said the first thing the K-9's did was take the steaks out of the crew meals. The FBI dudes who came on later wouldn't have known about that and made an assumption. 

Please don't fight this. You can just say "Yeah, I guess that makes more sense." 

Maybe, but we already knew about the dogs... 

Did they eat the containers as well?

Could be both..

Edited January 14 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 697]

29 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Hard to tell. Port side of stairs on NORJAK plane had a square placard. Not sure if same one. Quality isn't good enough. 

Not hard to tell, no match.

The other side is a different decal altogether.

Edited January 14 by FLYJACK

[randy233 5]

14 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

It's what is called a "hobby case", meaning that the Bureau really only wants you working on it on your free time. Larry only studied the case when he went home. He said he'd just take copies of the documents home with him to read at night or weekends. Of course, sometimes you'd work the case during "work hours", but they really preferred you not to do that. I think that is what got Larry in trouble with his bosses. By going to the media about it, it brought in more leads which meant A) Seattle Office had to answer more calls from people, and 2) that Larry would have to spend more actual "company time" working the case. 

Larry didn't throw the current guy under the bus on the interview, but privately he said he doubts the current case agent has done any substantial work at all on this case. He said he'd be surprised if the current agent has even bothered to spend any time at all on the Gryder chute since it was retrieved last year. Current case agent apparently has a large sized role in something involving Asian gangs in Seattle. 

Ah, okay. I always thought it was a full time job.

It was a good thing of Larry to make the case public by inviting citizen sleuths to work on it as well, imo. It seems this was the right thing to do with such a super cold case.

Edited January 14 by randy233

[FLYJACK 697]

Died in the jump.. based on evidence very unlikely. If he pulled he lived. Carr thinks that since everyone talks Cooper must have died not to talk,, Cooper did talk, the FBI just never discovered it.

 

Jump location. New data analysis, not used by Soderlind supports an 8:11 jump…  I would say with 95% to be conservative (100%) certainty. A Battleground or Orchards jump is off the table.

 

Larry did say on DZ Cossey got the back chutes from his house. Maybe before he learned about Hayden.

 

“NB6” is NOT a fact it is an unsubstantiated claim by Cossey, a serial liar and even though he was required to keep his packing records he never supplied them to confirm his claim.. Cossey’s description of the missing chute does not match the packing card or Hayden’s description.. Objective analysis of the evidence indicates it is very unlikely that the missing container was an NB6. It is NOT a FACT. Cossey falsely claimed he was paid for it and the chute left behind was returned.. Cossey's NB6 claim is not verified and NOT a fact.

 

Height. Both wrong on height.. The FBI noted in the files to NOT reject a suspect based on height, they used 5’8” as a lower bound. I assume because of reported variances and shoes...

Cooper was seated most of the time, when Flo wrote 6’1” she had NOT seen Cooper standing after he was known to be the hijacker. In the Hahneman case, I have documented 20 witness accounts describing his height between 5’10” and 6’, witness height recall is just not very accurate, studies have proved this. The first Cooper description was 5’9”-6’,, Height is a recall estimate based on many variables,,, Cooper’s initial weight was 150-175 and med to stocky, at 6’ tall that is thin. Cooper was later described as average to well built..  170-180 lbs average to well built matches 5”10” not 6’...

 

 

 

 

Sketch A vs B..

Still wrong Ryan, your argument is speculative not objective.. that date error is not causative, it is incidental. The process for sketch B was more comprehensive and being done anyway. Both Murphy and LD Cooper were liked by witnesses and they look like B not A. Three witnesses together is big NO-NO… The FBI said in the files that Sketch B is the best likeness…  though not needed for the argument an undisclosed image I have supports B. There is no evidence to support A over B, none. The witnesses liked suspects that matched B NOT A..  

 

Bill Mitchell saw strange socks,, maybe a jump suit.

 

 

Edited January 14 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

6 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Maybe, but we already knew about the dogs... 

Yes we did. But the FBI agents didn't...so they made an assumption.

For Cooper to have been the one to have taken something from the crew meals would mean that he went up near the cockpit AFTER Tina was sent up there (food was on first row of first class), which seems highly unlikely. Plus, Tina said that she asked Cooper if she could cook the crew meals and he told her no, so if it's Cooper doing this then he's also taking uncooked/cold food. 

I don't think we need to infer anything from this other than agents not realizing that the K-9's had gotten into the food. 

[olemisscub 510]

16 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Not hard to tell, no match.

The other side is a different decal altogether.

Well, it wouldn't matter even if it was a match since clearly NORJAK plane wasn't missing any decals = Edwards sadly wasted a lot of energy writing about that. 

[FLYJACK 697]

47 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I agree with this assessment. They look very close and fit within all of the descriptions.

 

 

 

Ray Ban Balorama is very close...  

Ray Ban Chalet is a good runner up..

[FLYJACK 697]

16 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Well, it wouldn't matter even if it was a match since clearly NORJAK plane wasn't missing any decals = Edwards sadly wasted a lot of energy writing about that. 

Shutter and I had already eliminated the Hick's placard before the Edward's book...

Norjak did NOT have the optional emergency airstair release...  never had that specific decal.

Edited January 14 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

38 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 In the Hahneman case, I have documented 20 witness accounts describing his height between 5’10” and 6’

 

 

No way. 20 DIFFERENT witness accounts for Hahneman being between 5'10 and 6'? I've read quite a lot of information on his hijacking and the highest I've ever seen is 5'10. His official FBI description is 5'8 to 5'9. The crew said 5'8. 5'10 shows up in the AP article, but I can't recall seeing anything taller than that for him. I'd like to see some examples. 

 

[FLYJACK 697]

46 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

No way. 20 DIFFERENT witness accounts for Hahneman being between 5'10 and 6'? I've read quite a lot of information on his hijacking and the highest I've ever seen is 5'10. His official FBI description is 5'8 to 5'9. The crew said 5'8. 5'10 shows up in the AP article, but I can't recall seeing anything taller than that for him. I'd like to see some examples. 

 

It is true.. I have found about 20 unique ones.

If I showed you that height research would it change your mind? probably not.

My point is that witness recall for height is poor especially in a plane...  and I have data that proves it. Height estimates are just not that accurate. The FBI themselves used 5'8" as a lower bound (it isn't just me), the initial description used 5'9"...  6' is the upper bound and not likely based on weight and build.

Did you check other hijacker's.

Research shows people use impressions/stereotype variables like race, age, ethnicity, body size, etc.. when recalling and estimating height... it is hard enough to guess somebody's height when they are standing in front of you, try recalling height from memory..

Nobody measured Cooper's height and we have a relatively small sample size for height estimates in NORJAK.. 

He was close to 5'10" in shoes.

Edited January 14 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 697]

Sketch A or B... Clearly B..

 

 

 

Murphy,, sketch A vs B... Clearly B.

 

Really close..

 

 

[dudeman17 339]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

That can't be totally accurate though, because Cossey would never jump with an emergency rig that didn't have D-rings for a reserve. 

You make that sound like you don't think he would own such a rig. Sure he would. No he wouldn't skydive with it, but he would wear it while flying, if he was flying jumpers in a small Cessna he would be required to wear it. And he might likely wear it as an instructor while putting out static-line students.

[FLYJACK 697]

17 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

You make that sound like you don't think he would own such a rig. Sure he would. No he wouldn't skydive with it, but he would wear it while flying, if he was flying jumpers in a small Cessna he would be required to wear it. And he might likely wear it as an instructor while putting out static-line students.

Yes, I think Cossey did own an NB6 for flying students with a modified handle and no D rings.. that is why he initially assumed THAT HIS rig was sent to Cooper via Issaquah, but it wasn't. He never corrected his error and covered it up by NOT providing his packing records.

That wasn't the back chute sold to Hayden and not the rig Cooper used.

Hayden bought the rigs from a surplus store. They had Cossey pack them for Hayden..

It is possible Cossey sold his rig through the surplus store but very unlikely.

[FLYJACK 697]

1985 Issaquah jump training video..

Instructor/pilot is wearing a back chute only at about 11:00

 

[olemisscub 510]

6 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

You make that sound like you don't think he would own such a rig. Sure he would. No he wouldn't skydive with it, but he would wear it while flying, if he was flying jumpers in a small Cessna he would be required to wear it. And he might likely wear it as an instructor while putting out static-line students.

Oh yeah, I forgot about him needing one whenever he flew. So it's likely he was actually telling Larry the truth. 

[olemisscub 510]

nm

Edited January 15 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 510]

7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

It is true.. I have found about 20 unique ones.

If I showed you that height research would it change your mind? probably not.

Did you check other hijacker's.

 

By all means, if you show me about 20 unique eyewitness accounts from the EAL hijacking, including numerous ones putting Bill's height at 5'11 or 6'0, it would change my mind. 

And Yes, and I'll be glad to show my research on this. There is nothing top secret about Hahneman's witness descriptions, so if I'm going to the trouble of sharing these then I expect you to share yours. 

Fisher was measured when arrested 6'3 1/2

If in our count we will count a "6'1 to 6'2" as counting as both 6'1 and 6'2 on a chart, it comes out to this from 41 witness descriptions. And it should be noted that Fisher was stalking up and down the aisles the entire flight in full view of everyone. 

5'11 - 2

6' - 11

6'1 - 15

6'2 - 13

6'3 - 7

6'4 - 2

So, if anything, the evidence shows that people, at least in Fisher's hijacking, were chronically underestimating his height. 82% of eyewitnesses had him under his actual height.