DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 713]

2 hours ago, JAGdb said:

If this was true, it would turn the case on it's head.  It would raise so many questions as to how it could have been ignored or not known by the FBI.  There's no way anyone would have suggested Ariel as a drop zone with this information.   Because of this, I have to dismiss this outright.  I do wonder who the "researcher" is or was that relayed this story.    

The other part of Dr. Edward's post that I found interesting was the comment from the chase plane pilot regarding that 305 was changing course "Flight 305 was changing course 45 degrees every 30 seconds".  

Can this tell us anything useful ? Does it support auto pilot or non auto pilot?  If it suggests being hand flown, why was the pilot of 305, flying in this manner ?  How many of these course changes were observed i.e. was it observed for 5 minutes, 10 minutes ?  Is it reflected anywhere in the "official" flight path map ?  Is it a nothing burger ?

 

It was a bar story from another researcher, not very reliable.

The chase plane pilot did not say "Flight 305 was changing course 45 degrees evert 30 seconds" that was attributed to Seattle Centre in Himmelsbach book NORJAK.

This is not true, the plane did not change 45 degrees, impossible... Himmelsbach's book does have some errors..

I bet it was "4 to 5 degrees" not 45 degrees, just misunderstood.

 

 

[FLYJACK 713]

So, now Ryan posts a sketch A image with KK5-1 eyes from sketch B.. and claims it looks more human.

Think about it.. Ryan has incorporated a significant part of sketch B into A to make it better.. but still claims A is the best likeness..

This makes no sense...  irrational.

Soon, he will be showing the full sketch B while still claiming sketch A is better.

Edited February 1 by FLYJACK

[georger 244]

5 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

It was a bar story from another researcher, not very reliable.

The chase plane pilot did not say "Flight 305 was changing course 45 degrees evert 30 seconds" that was attributed to Seattle Centre in Himmelsbach book NORJAK.

This is not true, the plane did not change 45 degrees, impossible... Himmelsbach's book does have some errors..

I bet it was "4 to 5 degrees" not 45 degrees, just misunderstood.

 

 

If the approach plane's lights are off I doubt anyone on the stairs would see anything, much less hear anything due to the whine of 305s engines. I tend to agree - just a bar story. Im disappointed Edwards would spend time on it. This is the last thing we need right now - whether by accident or his plan Cooper is right back headed toward Portland where it all started. And for some strange reason or intentionally, The US Treasury Forensic people will not even be consulted when the money is found. They are the very people you would want to consult and have examine and deal with the found money! The FBI decides to use its own Lab in Washington DC ... but maybe the Treausry people were consulted and we just have no lab report to confirm that ? Its strange what the FBI gives us vs. what they dont share or comment about ?     

[FLYJACK 713]

2 minutes ago, georger said:

If the approach plane's lights are off I doubt anyone on the stairs would see anything, much less hear anything due to the whine of 305s engines. I tend to agree - just a bar story. Im disappointed Edwards would spend time on it. This is the last thing we need right now - whether by accident or his plan Cooper is right back headed toward Portland where it all started. And for some strange reason or intentionally, The US Treasury Forensic people will not even be consulted when the money is found. They are the very people you would want to consult and have examine and deal with the found money! The FBI decides to use its own Lab in Washington DC ... but maybe the Treausry people were consulted and we just have no lab report to confirm that ? Its strange what the FBI gives us vs. what they dont share or comment about ?     

True, it all depends if the airstairwell light was on.. there is a light switch on the interphone panel.. Cooper did use the interphone at 8:05...  if that light was off the trailing pilot couldn't see..

Edwards and others are wasting time trying to move the jump south.. Soderlind got it right, it was 8:11 almost exactly. I have data to prove it and I have said for years that it could have been as far south as Battleground,, not now.

People keep trying to change the evidence without any facts..

[The Cooper Vortex 100]

New episode out now! DB Cooper was my Dad with my good friend James Lane.

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-my-dad-james-lane/

Enjoy!

[FLYJACK 713]

This is why this case has become a total farce...

 

All the time now is spent on bad theories, terrible suspects, wrong ideas and trying to correct them.

Edwards, a very smart guy completely screws up Cooper's complexion,, makes completely false claims and fails to understand that White/Caucasian and swarthy/olive are NOT incompatible.. Swarthy Latin Americans were called White/Caucasian.. 

Edwards does NOT understand Latin American ethnicity... they descend from American Indians and Spanish... some appear very "Indian" and others very "caucasian".

Swarthy means dark,, 

Edwards is just wrong, witnesses did say swarthy, dark and olive... latin

His evidence is wrong, his assumptions about Latin American ethnicity is wrong and his conclusion is wrong.

Edwards conflates the term Hispanic with Latin American..

Latin American is NOT incompatible with Caucasian.

Smart people like Ryan and Edwards just keep pushing nonsense.

https://medium.com/@robert.edwards_87384/d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-the-hijackers-ethnicity-02aeef5a25a4

100% FALSE

EDWARDS "And yet, no witness described the hijacker as “swarthy” or “dark-complexioned”. This was a fiction entirely of the FBI’s devising. The majority of the witnesses, and all of those who interacted closely with the hijacker, described him as white or Caucasian." 

 

swarthy means dark, many said dark

 

 

[FLYJACK 713]

1 hour ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

New episode out now! DB Cooper was my Dad with my good friend James Lane.

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-was-my-dad-james-lane/

Enjoy!

This is getting ridiculous now..

[georger 244]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

This is getting ridiculous now..

I agree but nothing we can do about  it - except - stick to facts etc. These folks will run out of steam then come back around .................. you can count on that!

Edited February 2 by georger

[FLYJACK 713]

3 hours ago, georger said:

I agree but nothing we can done about  it - except - stick to facts etc. These folks will run out of steam then come back around .................. you can count on that!

I feel like we are getting punked....  the case is going backwards not forwards.

Too many opinions presented as facts, not enough focus.

 

Some recent things heard in the Vortex…   

 

 

Sketch A is better than B. False - Murphy

 

Cooper had a small skinny nose. False

 

Cooper was Caucasian not swarthy. False, can be both

 

Cooper jumped at Orchards, the FBI confirmed it. Provably false

 

Cossey’s NB6 parachute description is accurate. False, no corroboration and many conflicts

 

The tie was worn at Union Carbide. Conjecture

 

Cooper was 6’ tall, not under 5’10”. False, unknown. FBI used 5'8" as the lower bound.

 

The TBAR money was human buried. Extremely unlikely.

 

Cunningham’s revised flightpath times. Provably false

 

The distributed ransom list was non-sequential. False it was re-ordered alpha-numeric

 

Braden was Cooper. False

 

Cooper had Skip Hall's obvious and severely wrinkled forehead. False, no witness ever mentioned it.

 

Vordahl was Cooper. False

 

My uncle was Cooper. False

 

My dad was Cooper. Nonsense

 

Cooper was a pilot. Conjecture, aviation experience but not necessarily a pilot

 

Cooper’s initial demand was aistairs lowered on takeoff. False, initial demand was airstairs lowered inflight.

 

The Hick's type placard was still attached to NORJAK. False, NORJAK never had that placard. It has a different one (wording).

 

No letter's were from Cooper. Conjecture

 

Edited February 2 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 713]

Strictly, SWARTHY means dark or olive skin...

Practically, it means a dark/olive skinned Caucasian. 

That is why most said Caucasian/white and Dark/Olive/Swarthy..

 

The FBI did not invent it, it accurately describes almost all witness observations.

Most witnesses also described Cooper as "Latin", which is also consistent...

Cooper's appearance and features were a Latin, olive/dark/swarthy caucasian...

Further research,, swarthy is generally Caucasian people who tan to dark/olive very fast in the sun. 

 

My analysis..

Cooper's complexion was dark on November 24..  He was not from the PNW.

 

 

[FLYJACK 713]

JACKPOT,,

FBI part 102 and 103 are up..

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper ?b_start:int=80

[olemisscub 510]

9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Most witnesses also described Cooper as "Latin", which is also consistent...

 

I have no reason to believe or disbelieve that Cooper was of Latin extraction, but Flo and Gregory are not "most". That's two witnesses. 

[FLYJACK 713]

4 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I have no reason to believe or disbelieve that Cooper was of Latin extraction, but Flo and Gregory are not "most". That's two witnesses. 

Maybe, maybe not.. We don't know everything the witnesses said. I know you think you have every witness description in the 302's but I know for fact you don't.

Extraction isn't really the right term,,,  "Latin appearance" is.

But you will need to take any confusion about Cooper's appearance up with the FBI.

Virtually every FBI description uses "latin"... that isn't a mistake.

White/Caucasian...   plus Swarthy/Latin/Olive/Dark/Mexican, which are similar descriptions by witnesses and are virtually interchangeable and are really different ways to describe a perceived characteristic.

Not that Cooper was necessarily Latin extraction but definitely latin appearance.

This is one of the few solid and most important pieces of evidence in this case.

I have called it the elephant in the room... if you can't see it you can't see anything.

I think Edwards doesn't understand that many Latin Americans were mixed race and called Caucasian. 

Cooper was Caucasian with Latin appearance. Simple.

 

 

 

Artist conception.. and virtually every Cooper description from the FBI has it..

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 07:38 AM by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 510]

I’m very much aware of how many times Latin shows up in the 302’s. I’ve also put “Latin” into the search. 

And it’s not an elephant in the room for me. As much as you fixate on every word I say in my videos, I’d suggest that perhaps you’re too busy fixating on finding things I get wrong to notice where we’re in agreement. I’ve stated many, many, many times that Cooper cannot simply look like a regular white guy. He needs to have some sort of ethnic flavor. It’s why Skip, despite the forehead wrinkles he gets when he raises his eyebrows and despite him almost certainly not being Cooper, is physically a better suspect than anyone out there presently in the mainstream, and is why I think he is at least more than a 0% chance like how I view every other suspect in the mainstream. A Caucasian who could pass for a white guy and pass for a Latino is precisely what I’m looking for with Cooper.

Regardless, none of what you have said or posted negates the fact that you just posted a demonstrably false statement. You said MOST witnesses. We have verifiable evidence that two witnesses said that. Two is not most. Period. 

And I don’t think I have seen all the 302’s. I mean, duh. We have thousands to go.

Edited Tuesday at 01:47 PM by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 713]

57 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I’m very much aware of how many times Latin shows up in the 302’s. I’ve also put “Latin” into the search. 

And it’s not an elephant in the room for me. As much as you fixate on every word I say in my videos, I’d suggest that perhaps you’re too busy fixating on finding things I get wrong to notice where we’re in agreement. I’ve stated many, many, many times that Cooper cannot simply look like a regular white guy. He needs to have some sort of ethnic flavor. It’s why Skip, despite the forehead wrinkles he gets when he raises his eyebrows and despite him almost certainly not being Cooper, is physically a better suspect than anyone out there presently in the mainstream, and is why I think he is at least more than a 0% chance like how I view every other suspect in the mainstream. A Caucasian who could pass for a white guy and pass for a Latino is precisely what I’m looking for with Cooper.

Regardless, none of what you have said or posted negates the fact that you just posted a demonstrably false statement. You said MOST witnesses. We have verifiable evidence that two witnesses said that. Two is not most. Period. 

And I don’t think I have seen all the 302’s. I mean, duh. We have thousands to go.

Nobody said Latino..  I avoid that term because it wasn't really used in 1971 as it is today. That applies today's context into 1971... probably why most don't get the Caucasian and Latin thing..

and you don't know it is false because you don't know what the witnesses said to the FBI. 

You argued in the past that we have all the witness 302's so Tina didn't claim Cooper had stained fingers, nice to see you have changed that stance.. hard to keep up with your shifting arguments.. Nothing is as dishonest as shifting your argument to fit the subject.

But,, what I take exception with is when you lie and spread FALSE information to discredit me...  here and in your videos. You never owned it or corrected it.

Dude, you lied. You made provably FALSE claims... Repeatedly, and just ignore it. The result is YOU have disseminated FALSE information and it isn't minor stuff. You did it to discredit me and it forces me to correct the record,, but you had me removed from the FB group even though I never posted anything ever.. YOU are lucky I am not on there.

Meanwhile, you and your buddies alter the map evidence, push and defend a terrible suspect like Vordahl or Skip (0% chance, WHO HAS TWO BIG GROWTHS ON HIS FACE, a facial scar, a crooked eyebrow plus massive wrinkles), and bad ideas presented as facts polluting the case with nonsense. You have Skip scoring at #1 on your unexplained and (un)biased matrix... 

People actually believe Cunningham's screwed up map is legit and you say nothing but "I defer to Cunningham the path expert". You are enabling completely falsified crucial evidence to enter the case. Most people don't have the case knowledge to recognize it as FALSE. You do, but say nothing. Why, because you put friends over truth...

and you keep claiming it is now known that Cooper jumped at Orchards and the FBI admits it... complete nonsense. 

You have burned up your credibility with me..  I am not really interested in discussing anything with people who lie or just shift arguments to fit the subject and apply selective criticism. IMO, you do bring in new people, not necessarily a good thing.. but are a net negative for advancing this case, you enable bad research, bad ideas, misinformation and endless rabbit holes. Most FB people are in this for the social aspect, I get that, that is fine but I am not. I am trying to solve this thing. YOU are taking this case backwards and on net have not added anything substantive to solving it.

You pushed/defended,, Vordahl, Ti REMCRU (metallurgy), Skip, sketch A, Orchards, Bump vs Oscillation delay, Cunningham's altered map, Gunther fraud, TBAR hand burial and Cossey's unreliable claims... probably more that I have forgotten.

A large portion of the public falsely believes Skip was Cooper, he jumped with an NB6 at Orchards and buried the money at TBAR...   congrats, you win the social game go sell some books.

Don't worry, few read the DZ so nobody on FB will even notice you lied..

[olemisscub 510]

edit: just not worth it.

and I never banned you from a FB group

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 07:42 PM by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 713]

12 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

lol you are so rustled. Calling me a liar when I point out that you made an OBVIOUS falsehood. You outright claimed that MOST witnesses said he is Latin. That's indefensible. You know better. Yeah, we don't have all the 302's. But there is ZERO indication that we are missing any additional witness statements from that night. 

You have burned up your credibility with me

I'll cry into my pillow every night that the most agenda driven researcher in the Vortex thinks I have no credibility. Dude, you think Bill Hahneman, with visible missing teeth, tiny barely visible bird lips, 5'8, bulbous nose, curly kinky hair, and Mr. Magoo glasses was D.B. Cooper. You somehow managed to find one of the only middle aged men alive in 1971 who doesn't look a damn thing like ANY of the sketches. Congratulations. That's deserving of an award in of itself. 

but you had me removed from the FB group even though I never posted anything ever.. YOU are lucky I am not on there.

Oh look, another lie. Two blatant lies in as many days. 

 

 

No, it is not a lie.. more misinformation from you as usual.

Not your group, the DB Cooper Mystery Group.. you got me blocked, you asked me to join the we got in a scrap here and I got blocked...   I never posted anything there. 

Nobody cares about your small group.

 

I don't care what you think of Hahneman.. you are irrelevant..  it makes you feel better attacking him but you are completely wrong about everything..  it is clear your ability to present evidence accurately and assess it is abysmal... you just lie and I don't want to waste time defending the facts to a liar. I would if I thought you were honest.. but you aren't.

I prefer you to keep advancing your delusional false narratives and leading people astray. 

So, keep going..  

 

 

[olemisscub 510]

9 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Not your group, the DB Cooper Mystery Group.. you got me blocked, you asked me to join the we got in a scrap here and I got blocked...   I never posted anything there. 

 

Nope. I will send you a PM to prove it and I expect you to recant your accusation on this forum once you see the proof. You're the one claiming to be honest and all this. So I'll expect that from you. 

[georger 244]

12 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Maybe, maybe not.. We don't know everything the witnesses said. I know you think you have every witness description in the 302's but I know for fact you don't.

Extraction isn't really the right term,,,  "Latin appearance" is.

But you will need to take any confusion about Cooper's appearance up with the FBI.

Virtually every FBI description uses "latin"... that isn't a mistake.

White/Caucasian...   plus Swarthy/Latin/Olive/Dark/Mexican, which are similar descriptions by witnesses and are virtually interchangeable and are really different ways to describe a perceived characteristic.

Not that Cooper was necessarily Latin extraction but definitely latin appearance.

This is one of the few solid and most important pieces of evidence in this case.

I have called it the elephant in the room... if you can't see it you can't see anything.

I think Edwards doesn't understand that many Latin Americans were mixed race and called Caucasian. 

Cooper was Caucasian with Latin appearance. Simple.

 

 

 

Artist conception.. and virtually every Cooper description from the FBI has it..

 

 

 

 

Unless I am wrong, so far there is no genetic information from any source, to suggest or document Latin vs anything else. The issue is documentation. Actual verified evidence. Appearance vs behaviors vs genetics .....   evidence ... ?

Edited Tuesday at 08:33 PM by georger

[FLYJACK 713]

19 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Nope. I will send you a PM to prove it and I expect you to recant your accusation on this forum once you see the proof. You're the one claiming to be honest and all this. So I'll expect that from you. 

I didn't say you blocked me, I said you got me blocked... 

and I still believe you played a role in it. 

But,, I don't care about FB.. I care about misinformation getting spread unchallenged and I saw lots of it there.

[olemisscub 510]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

I didn't say you blocked me, I said you got me blocked... 

and I still believe you played a role in it. 

But,, I don't care about FB.. I care about misinformation getting spread unchallenged and I saw lots of it there.

Check your PM's AGAIN. You're the honest one here, right? Let the people know that you accused me falsely and that it was Ulis who banned you on his own accord. 

[FLYJACK 713]

4 minutes ago, georger said:

Unless I am wrong, so far there is no genetic information from any source, to suggest or document Latin vs anything else. The issue is documentation. Actual verified evidence. Appearance vs behaviors vs genetics evidence ... ?

Well, we have latin appearance and characteristics.....

That is consistent with curly/wavy/marceled/dark hair and dark "possibly piercing" eyes, olive/dark/swarthy complexion...  

no behaviours or genetics..  though he did request to go Mexico,, 

[FLYJACK 713]

20 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

Check your PM's AGAIN. You're the honest one here, right? Let the people know that you accused me falsely and that it was Ulis who banned you on his own accord. 

I still don't agree, Ulis blocked me but you played a role in it,, that is what I said.

Maybe it wasn't your intention to get me blocked but I believe your actions did play a role in it.

Look, I don't care about FB..

 

 

[olemisscub 510]

1 minute ago, FLYJACK said:

I still don't agree, Ulis blocked me but you played a role in it,, that is what I said.

Maybe it wasn't your intention to get me blocked but I believe your actions did play a role in it.

Look, I don't care about FB..

 

 

Jacque Voler. Choose a less obvious alias next time. Even Eric figured it out, so that's saying something. 

[FLYJACK 713]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Jacque Voler. Choose a less obvious alias next time. Even Eric figured it out, so that's saying something. 

Wrong.

I wasn't trying to hide my identity,, I intentionally chose something obvious that wasn't my real name. I hate FB and its data collection scam.

Lots of people don't use their real names on FB,, 

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:25 PM by FLYJACK