DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 724]

2 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

this is literally what you did with your fictional Cossey statement. 

No it isn't,  Cossey said he was contacted and he must have been contacted before his in person meeting with the FBI.. 

Not even close.

[olemisscub 520]

24 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

No it isn't,  Cossey said he was contacted and he must have been contacted before his in person meeting with the FBI.. 

Not even close.

You’ll cross your arms and stomp your feet at this, but I think in retrospect Tosaw’s narrative makes the most sense now that I’ve reread it. Cossey WAS contacted. But it wasn’t by the FBI, it was NWA. Lee said that when they got the request for parachutes they were all scratching their heads trying to figure out where to come up with parachutes  and one of the guys on the NWA staff knew of Cossey. NWA is who contacted Cossey that night. Cossey told them about Hayden, which led them to call Barry Halstad at Boeing Field, who then contacted Hayden. Cossey is probably who also told them to get in touch with Emrick. 

[FLYJACK 724]

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

You’ll cross your arms and stomp your feet at this, but I think in retrospect Tosaw’s narrative makes the most sense now that I’ve reread it. Cossey WAS contacted. But it wasn’t by the FBI, it was NWA. Lee said that when they got the request for parachutes they were all scratching their heads trying to figure out where to come up with parachutes  and one of the guys on the NWA staff knew of Cossey. NWA is who contacted Cossey that night. Cossey told them about Hayden, which led them to call Barry Halstad at Boeing Field, who then contacted Hayden. Cossey is probably who also told them to get in touch with Emrick. 

yes, I've heard that before,, I am not referring to that. That is likely revisionism from Cossey.

Cossey said he was contacted after the plane landed..

I know he might be lying but we don't know for sure..

The files only have that Cossey in person meeting with the FBI,, that can't be the first contact with him..  they had to have contacted him to set up the meeting at least.

This is why you get so many things wrong.. it is legitimate and necessary to use assumptions to build theories that get tested.. but you use assumptions to build conclusions that get expressed as fact..

 

Cossey told them to get all 4 chutes from Emerick at Issaquah. Emerick was contacted and told they only needed the fronts, they had secured the backs from Hayden.. but Cossey didn't know that until later. He had assumed his back chutes were taken from Issaquah and given to Cooper. 

Clearly, at some point he learned of his error.. when is the key. When he learned that Hayden's backs were used not his he wove Hayden into his narrative. That is why Cossey's description doesn't match Hayden's or the packing cards, he was describing his chute. So, he never corrected the record and did not supply his records which would expose his error.

Cossey lied to Tosaw..

Edited March 1 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 724]

Tosaw book,, Florence..  Cooper was threatening to touch the wire to the battery terminal..

[olemisscub 520]

23 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Cossey told them to get all 4 chutes from Emerick at Issaquah.

 

You're continuing to fill in imaginary gaps to try and be correct on this. What Cossey said to Tosaw lines up precisely with what the evidence suggests. 

We KNOW that the dudes at NWA called Boeing Field for some reason, which is what led them to Hayden. This is 100% fact. 

Cossey says he told them he recently packed two chutes and to call Boeing Field. 

COSSEY was WHY they called Boeing Field. 

If Cossey did what you are suggesting and told them to get all 4 chutes from Issaquah, then why did they ever call Boeing Field looking for two backpacks??

How is that at all incongruent?

It's congruent with Cossey's statement to Tosaw, but also congruent with what Al Lee told Tosaw.

Stop inventing things to fill in imaginary gaps. 

 

[dudeman17 341]

On 2/7/2025 at 6:32 AM, FLYJACK said:

A question for jumper's..

Cooper asked for mains but received back reserves...  Would an experienced jumper be able to tell that they were reserves?

Would they know the difference between a main and a bailout rig?

An experienced skydiver or jump pilot would definitely know the difference. A military paratrooper would probably / should know. A military aircrew might know, depending on what kind of training they received and how much interest they had. A private pilot with experience in the type of flying that requires a bailout rig might know, again how much training and interest. A total whuffo probably not but maybe.

 

On 2/7/2025 at 6:32 AM, FLYJACK said:

Does the fact that Cooper jumped with a back reserve after inspecting the chutes tell us anything about him or his experience?

That's hard to say. My thought is that by that time he was committed. Was he going to complain and ask for better chutes? How long would that take? He was already concerned about time? And still being on the plane when it landed in Reno meant certain capture (or worse). My guess is that regardless of his experience or what he knew, he made do with what they gave him.

 

A couple side notes:

Some reserve type round canopies are steerable. But you'd have to be familiar with it, especially the four line release type.

If his overcoat was the typical knee length type and he kept it on, it would be awkward getting the leg straps on right. Doable, but awkward.

[dudeman17 341]

On 3/1/2025 at 3:09 PM, olemisscub said:

We KNOW that the dudes at NWA called Boeing Field for some reason, which is what led them to Hayden. This is 100% fact. 

Cossey says he told them he recently packed two chutes and to call Boeing Field. 

COSSEY was WHY they called Boeing Field. 

If that is true then that raises interesting questions. Cossey definitely knows the difference between mains and bailout rigs. If he tells them to call Boeing Field he knows that they're going to get bailout rigs and not mains. Is it possible that they discussed it and figured that if they gave Cooper bailout rigs that it might discourage him from actually jumping? It could explain why the dummy reserve was given.

 

On 2/28/2025 at 3:48 PM, FLYJACK said:

Cossey told them to get all 4 chutes from Emerick at Issaquah.

It would make the most sense to give him student rigs.

[olemisscub 520]

8 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

 

It would make the most sense to give him student rigs.

Yes, this is an issue I have with Flyjack's belief that Cossey thought they were HIS bailout rigs. Why would Cossey volunteer his OWN personal rigs for such a thing in the first place? It makes much more sense that he told them about Hayden's rigs than to volunteer anything he actually owned. No doubt Cossey had the same belief that Emrick had: "I'm not giving anything of real value to this effort because I probably won't ever see them again."

 

[CooperNWO305 155]

Looks like the morality police are out again. Every couple of months William Smith’s daughter stirs the pot and then the fake accounts come out and comment and the morality police comes out with their shaming language, gas lighting, theatrics, red herrings, misdirection, guilt trips, and manipulation tactics. Like we are a bunch of second graders getting lectured by our teacher. 
 

The tree house group has hamstrung themselves by claiming you can only name someone who has a criminal record or was investigated by the FBI. As Liz R. says, why even be on the groups or in the case if that’s the deal. 
 

But using POI instead of suspect absolves you of all sin, and if you keep it on Facebook or at CooperCon you are absolved of sin too. What a joke. Try naming someone as a POI in a robbery or pedophile ring and see what happens. 
 

With minimal effort I could find skeletons on everyone. 
 

Also, EU naming random people for publicity is not the same as someone else doing actual research. 
 

My favorite is from John H. who must have bought the sob story on Smith and says the Oregonian should not have published an article. Here’s some news, they have 7 Pulitzers. 
 

Smith was in the news for years, but all of a sudden it was a 2 second clip in episode 4 of a Netflix show that exposed him or a History Channel documentary that most people never even saw?

I should name all the people who have helped me with Smith or been curious or are now silent or actually now claiming they weren’t part of it  

I’m not here to change minds. But where is the curiosity? It’s gone. All people do in those groups is regurgitate and rehash the same info. Sad to say that the intellect is not there, except for a few people who are overshadowed.

And the boys vs girls thing is not helping. Pat B. has some solid ideas and research, and it would be great to hear about her talk with Alice. Let her talk. We don’t see eye to eye on everything, and I don’t agree with her saying Smith’s daughter is a victim, but she brings a lot more than she takes.

Anyhow, you all should start charging for membership and maybe have a rush or pledge class. The group spends more time backstabbing and back channeling then they do researching. So many lemmings falling for the latest tie analysis. How many times do you have to get burned to give it up? Or ranking top 5 suspects like it’s NASCAR and there are points for second place.

By the way, it’s the newspapers and shows that start using the term suspects, it gets them more views. Anyone saying POI is better than suspect is a full on hypocrite.
 

Have at it on Smith. I always know there is talk going on when I see the hits on websites. You guys are the best advertisers.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CooperNWO305 155]

I’ve mentioned that the Facebook groups are more of a social community and that overshadows legit curiosity and research. Some of the people on there who I’ve seen who are willing to ask questions and not just take the party line are:

Paul R. D. 
Mark S. 
John K. 
Shawn W. 
Dave U. 
 

This is not the complete list, but this group is worth following. I certainly don’t agree with everything they all say or even the delivery of one or two, but none of us agree on everything. They disagree with me I’m sure. These guys will at least offer counter arguments and keep the politics out of things. 
 

There are others out there too, but this group is a set that do not get a lot of publicity in the case. 

[FLYJACK 724]

On 3/1/2025 at 3:09 PM, olemisscub said:

You're continuing to fill in imaginary gaps to try and be correct on this. What Cossey said to Tosaw lines up precisely with what the evidence suggests. 

We KNOW that the dudes at NWA called Boeing Field for some reason, which is what led them to Hayden. This is 100% fact. 

Cossey says he told them he recently packed two chutes and to call Boeing Field. 

COSSEY was WHY they called Boeing Field. 

If Cossey did what you are suggesting and told them to get all 4 chutes from Issaquah, then why did they ever call Boeing Field looking for two backpacks??

How is that at all incongruent?

It's congruent with Cossey's statement to Tosaw, but also congruent with what Al Lee told Tosaw.

Stop inventing things to fill in imaginary gaps. 

 

Ryan, full of more lies,,,  that is your MO.. smear people who actually know more than you.. disgusting.

You accuse of making up stuff which is exactly what you are doing... making up stuff.

I am not inventing anything, Emerick explained this in an interview... He was to grab all 4 then was told told to send only the fronts..  

Cossey was contacted and told them to get the chute from Issaquah..

Is there any end to you misinformation and false accusations.

I think you need a new hobby.. you aren't good at this.

"Arrangements for the parachutes were conducted by an official from Northwest Orient, named George Harrison in the official documents.  Harrison knew to call Pacific Aviation at the nearby Boeing Field because they sold acrobatic airplanes and according to FAA regulations acrobatic pilots and their passengers had to wear parachutes, so he knew that Pacific Aviation would have a couple available.

 However, when Harrison called Pacific Aviation he spoke with Barry, a sales manager there, and learned that they had only conical “seat packs’ and not the “back parachutes” demanded by Cooper.  Hence, Halstad recommended to Harrison that he contact one of Pacific Aviation’s recent customers, Norman Hayden, who had two back parachutes and was located not too far away in Kent, Washington, about ten miles away."

https://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/

Edited Wednesday at 01:13 AM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 724]

On 3/3/2025 at 7:28 AM, olemisscub said:

Yes, this is an issue I have with Flyjack's belief that Cossey thought they were HIS bailout rigs. Why would Cossey volunteer his OWN personal rigs for such a thing in the first place? It makes much more sense that he told them about Hayden's rigs than to volunteer anything he actually owned. No doubt Cossey had the same belief that Emrick had: "I'm not giving anything of real value to this effort because I probably won't ever see them again."

 

You are wrong.. like many things in this case.

All you have are baseless assumptions... that block your own thinking.

Edited Wednesday at 12:32 AM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 724]

On 3/2/2025 at 10:46 PM, dudeman17 said:

If that is true then that raises interesting questions. Cossey definitely knows the difference between mains and bailout rigs. If he tells them to call Boeing Field he knows that they're going to get bailout rigs and not mains. Is it possible that they discussed it and figured that if they gave Cooper bailout rigs that it might discourage him from actually jumping? It could explain why the dummy reserve was given.

 

It would make the most sense to give him student rigs.

Cossey didn't tell them to call Boeing Field... he had nothing to with obtaining Hayden's rigs. He lied to Tosaw in a CYA move.

The obvious problem is Hayden's rigs did not have D rings yet they still supplied the fronts.. doesn't make sense.

I bet Cossey's rigs had D rings because Emerick was to grab fronts and backs..

 

My question is really about how distinguishable a main from a bailout rig is without opening it.. for Cooper.

Would he know it was bailout rig and not a main.

Did Cooper know or should have reasonably known he was jumping with a bailout rig and not a main that he requested.

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:15 AM by FLYJACK

[The Cooper Vortex 100]

New episode out now! DB Cooper Book Review Part 3 with my good friend Nicole Legg. 

https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-xfzsh-182ae2b

Check it out!

[olemisscub 520]

15 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

You are wrong.. like many things in this case.

That may be, but at least one of us is man enough to admit when they’re wrong. You’re too much of an intellectual coward to admit when you’re wrong. 

[FLYJACK 724]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

That may be, but at least one of us is man enough to admit when they’re wrong. You’re too much of an intellectual coward to admit when you’re wrong. 

Just can't help yourself..

You are a liar,,, it doesn't get lower than that.

Edited Wednesday at 05:49 PM by FLYJACK

[dudeman17 341]

18 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

My question is really about how distinguishable a main from a bailout rig is without opening it.. for Cooper.

Would he know it was bailout rig and not a main.

Did Cooper know or should have reasonably known he was jumping with a bailout rig and not a main that he requested.

Well I thought I answered that in my post above the one you quoted. It depends on his experience, if any...

On 3/2/2025 at 10:25 PM, dudeman17 said:

An experienced skydiver or jump pilot would definitely know the difference. A military paratrooper would probably / should know. A military aircrew might know, depending on what kind of training they received and how much interest they had. A private pilot with experience in the type of flying that requires a bailout rig might know, again how much training and interest. A total whuffo probably not but maybe.

And it wouldn't take opening it, the packed rig would be apparent. Mains are generally bulkier than bailout rigs, the container design is often a bit different, on mains the ripcord is usually on the right side whereas on bailout rigs they're usually on the left, mains have the D-rings, bailout rigs don't, mains don't have seals or packing cards...

 

18 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The obvious problem is Hayden's rigs did not have D rings yet they still supplied the fronts.. doesn't make sense.

The NWA or FBI people procuring the rigs probably don't have any idea about the differences, they're just grabbing what they can get. When they tell Emrick they've got the backs, he probably knows they've got bailout rigs, but he probably doesn't say anything lest they ask him for more. Which again, might explain the dummy reserve. There's no way in hell Emrick doesn't know that training aid from a real one.

[FLYJACK 724]

1 hour ago, dudeman17 said:

Well I thought I answered that in my post above the one you quoted. It depends on his experience, if any...

And it wouldn't take opening it, the packed rig would be apparent. Mains are generally bulkier than bailout rigs, the container design is often a bit different, on mains the ripcord is usually on the right side whereas on bailout rigs they're usually on the left, mains have the D-rings, bailout rigs don't, mains don't have seals or packing cards...

 

The NWA or FBI people procuring the rigs probably don't have any idea about the differences, they're just grabbing what they can get. When they tell Emrick they've got the backs, he probably knows they've got bailout rigs, but he probably doesn't say anything lest they ask him for more. Which again, might explain the dummy reserve. There's no way in hell Emrick doesn't know that training aid from a real one.

See, that is fascinating about the difference between mains and a bailout rig.. 

Cooper asked for mains..  He jumps with a bailout rig and that isn't ideal.

That indicates Cooper wasn't a very experienced jumper.. some jump experience but no expert like say Braden. 

 

For Hayden's rig my point was the counter to Cossey obtaining Hayden's rig,, he didn't and it doesn't make sense that he would procure bailout rigs and fronts that couldn't be used. The guys who got the Hayden's rigs didn't realize they were bailout rigs...  and yes it seems unbelievable that Emerick didn't know that one was a dummy reserve.. I bet he knew but assumed it wouldn't be used so it didn't matter, then later later claimed ignorance.

 

Lots of jumpers have said easy jump no problem they'd do it...

but would they jump at night in a bailout rig... that is another level... which makes me think Cooper didn't actually realize it was a bailout rig.. an experienced jumper would have rejected them and demanded mains.

Edited Wednesday at 09:00 PM by FLYJACK

[dudeman17 341]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Cooper asked for mains..  He jumps with a bailout rig and that isn't ideal.

That indicates Cooper wasn't a very experienced jumper..  

...which makes me think Cooper didn't actually realize it was a bailout rig.. an experienced jumper would have rejected them and demanded mains.

I'm not sure about that...

On 3/2/2025 at 10:25 PM, dudeman17 said:

My thought is that by that time he was committed. Was he going to complain and ask for better chutes? How long would that take? He was already concerned about time? And still being on the plane when it landed in Reno meant certain capture (or worse). My guess is that regardless of his experience or what he knew, he made do with what they gave him.

Some of those round reserves were steerable. They wouldn't maneuver quite as well as a main, but they did have control. And I don't know if the info on the packing card would have told him whether or not it was. The reserves are smaller, a bit higher rate of descent, but if he was trained and had a good PLF, Parachute Landing Fall, a specific way to land and absorb the impact, he might have thought he'd be ok.

[CooperNWO305 155]

8 hours ago, olemisscub said:

That may be, but at least one of us is man enough to admit when they’re wrong. You’re too much of an intellectual coward to admit when you’re wrong. 

To be fair, when have you acknowledged that you’ve been wrong? I don’t remember many times if at all. There is not a lot of people in the Vortex who acknowledge being wrong that often. 

[FLYJACK 724]

16 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

To be fair, when have you acknowledged that you’ve been wrong? I don’t remember many times if at all. There is not a lot of people in the Vortex who acknowledge being wrong that often. 

Ryan is throwing up a straw-man,, although being wrong is too common for him it isn't the issue.

Ryan lies, distorts, smears and just makes up stuff about those who have a different conclusion... to discredit others who turn out to be right.

He just claimed I was making up stuff,, he was lying. I was not and I was correct..

He lies to win an argument... 

 

Unfortunately people with less case knowledge defer to his opinions,, most are bad.

I really don't care if he is wrong or if he admits it or not,,, in fact, I prefer he remains wrong...

I just can't strand a liar.

[FLYJACK 724]

The classic claim that keeps getting repeated as fact over and over without any evidence or analysis... People hear it and just repeat it because it sounds good.

That is.. Cooper demanded to go to Mex City only to get the plane heading south (a ruse) and chose the longest route to give him the most time after he jumps.

Cooper never demanded to fly directly to Mex City, he said no landing in US for fuel or anything else, can land anywhere in Mexico. So, his range demand was actually just Mexico not Mexico City.

Cooper must have believed the plane could make it to Mexico when he made the demand. Nobody is going to make a demand that they knew was not achievable and would be rejected. So, the ruse idea makes no sense.

Since Cooper's initial demand was airstairs lowered in flight and he gave no directions/instructions, he was going to give that later in the air and that means he could have directed the plane to almost anywhere. When Reno was in play he changed his plan and that caused him jump earlier than he had planned.

[CooperNWO305 155]

On 3/4/2025 at 8:35 AM, CooperNWO305 said:

I’ve mentioned that the Facebook groups are more of a social community and that overshadows legit curiosity and research. Some of the people on there who I’ve seen who are willing to ask questions and not just take the party line are:

Paul R. D. 
Mark S. 
John K. 
Shawn W. 
Dave U. 
 

This is not the complete list, but this group is worth following. I certainly don’t agree with everything they all say or even the delivery of one or two, but none of us agree on everything. They disagree with me I’m sure. These guys will at least offer counter arguments and keep the politics out of things. 
 

There are others out there too, but this group is a set that do not get a lot of publicity in the case. 

Add Rohit to the list too. He’s had some good insight. 

[FLYJACK 724]

FBI,, Sketch B is the best likeness..

Catalano's nose is wider than Sketch B..

Murphy was liked and shown to witnesses many months before sketch B was started and matches sketch B extremely well... Sketch A not so much...

 

 

Edited Thursday at 07:00 PM by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 724]

A question for parachute guys...

Cooper initially asked for 2 parachutes front and back...

Then he wanted 4...

I ran into this issue with Hahneman.. a parachute with a main and reserve was counted as one parachute...  technically 2, but counted as one.

I suspect Cooper wanted two sets of main and reserve..  technically 4..  that was he confusion. He didn't change his demand he clarified the terminology.

Can a main and reserve be referred to as one parachute.