DB Cooper

[olemisscub 521]

On 3/5/2025 at 6:12 PM, FLYJACK said:

Ryan is throwing up a straw-man,, although being wrong is too common for him it isn't the issue.

Ryan lies, distorts, smears and just makes up stuff about those who have a different conclusion... to discredit others who turn out to be right.

He just claimed I was making up stuff,, he was lying. I was not and I was correct..

He lies to win an argument... 

 

Unfortunately people with less case knowledge defer to his opinions,, most are bad.

I really don't care if he is wrong or if he admits it or not,,, in fact, I prefer he remains wrong...

I just can't strand a liar.

There’s really no need for me to deal with this vitriol anymore. No one should. This is a hobby, not a bloodsport dude. Be well. 

Edited March 7 by olemisscub

[CooperNWO305 155]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

FBI,, Sketch B is the best likeness..

Catalano's nose is wider than Sketch B..

Murphy was liked and shown to witnesses many months before sketch B was started and matches sketch B extremely well... Sketch A not so much...

 

 

My observation is that many people do not have enough case knowledge to feel confident questioning these claims that the B sketch was just a mistake, or an admin error as stated by Jude. I wonder who has even read or still reads the 302s besides Ryan, Fly, and myself. I assume there are more. I hope. 
 

I do find it amusing that now people are saying their suspect looks like Comp A when they used to be all about Comp B.  How can you look like Comp A and Comp B? They are clearly very different people. 
 

I encourage people to ask questions and not just fall for the party line. 50 years later all of a sudden A is a better sketch. That’s not as bad as the Western Flight Path, but it’s still a big leap from what the FBI believed. Until I see something truly solid, then I have trouble believing everyone in the FBI made a mistake. The witnesses are all over the place on all sketches. 

[FLYJACK 729]

45 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

There’s really no need for me to deal with this vitriol anymore. No one should. This is a hobby, not a bloodsport dude. Be well. 

Exactly how I feel having to put up with your lies and personal attacks.

You lie about me constantly, every comment you throw in a made up smear ...  

You have never admitted to your lies and misinformation...

 

Look in a mirror.. 

 

 

Edited March 7 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 729]

44 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

My observation is that many people do not have enough case knowledge to feel confident questioning these claims that the B sketch was just a mistake, or an admin error as stated by Jude. I wonder who has even read or still reads the 302s besides Ryan, Fly, and myself. I assume there are more. I hope. 
 

I do find it amusing that now people are saying their suspect looks like Comp A when they used to be all about Comp B.  How can you look like Comp A and Comp B? They are clearly very different people. 
 

I encourage people to ask questions and not just fall for the party line. 50 years later all of a sudden A is a better sketch. That’s not as bad as the Western Flight Path, but it’s still a big leap from what the FBI believed. Until I see something truly solid, then I have trouble believing everyone in the FBI made a mistake. The witnesses are all over the place on all sketches. 

The FBI did make that attribution error for Flo's comment.

But, that error didn't produce sketch B. The error was incidental not causative.

These guys blaming the error for the creation of sketch B are just misreading it. The error is irrelevant, there is zero evidence it was causative.

Fact is, they wanted to add complexion and age... Fact is, they spent months going back and forth with witnesses not a few hours. 

Edited March 7 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 521]

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

50 years later all of a sudden A is a better sketch. That’s not as bad as the Western Flight Path, but it’s still a big leap from what the FBI believed. Until I see something truly solid, then I have trouble believing everyone in the FBI made a mistake. The witnesses are all over the place on all sketches. 

It’s really not as complicated as I think you’re making this. There is nothing nefarious going on. I used to dismiss Comp A because I THOUGHT (like the FBI did) that Flo hated it. Once I realized that she said that she “liked it very much” and that Tina said it was “100% like him”, I began to believe it had serious value. Both sketches have value to me now. If you’ve seen or heard where I’ve began dismissing Comp B as lacking value, I’d like to see it. 

Three days later the best witnesses liked Comp A. 

9 months to a year later they all liked Comp B. 

No reason for me to be attacked for suggesting that the one closest to the event is more likely to be accurate. That’s just common sense. I’m planning on having this person who wrote a law book about eyewitness testimony on my show next month. I can’t imagine he is going to say that an eyewitnesses memory of a face is going to be better 9 months after an event as opposed to a week later.

But they definitely represent different humans. So which human does Cooper look like more. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 

You’re making an appeal to authority by saying “the FBI says it’s the best” and that B shouldn’t be questioned because of that. Sure, of course they say that. When they made that pronouncement they still were operating under the assumption that Flo didn’t like Bing and here now this new sketch is getting rave reviews. So, of course they’re going to say B is the best: they thought Revised Comp B was the first sketch that had achieved a consensus from their best witnesses…but it wasn’t.   

Edited March 7 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 729]

11 hours ago, olemisscub said:

It’s really not as complicated as I think you’re making this. There is nothing nefarious going on. I used to dismiss Comp A because I THOUGHT (like the FBI did) that Flo hated it. Once I realized that she said that she “liked it very much” and that Tina said it was “100% like him”, I began to believe it had serious value. Both sketches have value to me now. If you’ve seen or heard where I’ve began dismissing Comp B as lacking value, I’d like to see it. 

Three days later the best witnesses liked Comp A. 

9 months to a year later they all liked Comp B. 

No reason for me to be attacked for suggesting that the one closest to the event is more likely to be accurate. That’s just common sense. I’m planning on having this person who wrote a law book about eyewitness testimony on my show next month. I can’t imagine he is going to say that an eyewitnesses memory of a face is going to be better 9 months after an event as opposed to a week later.

But they definitely represent different humans. So which human does Cooper look like more. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 

You’re making an appeal to authority by saying “the FBI says it’s the best” and that B shouldn’t be questioned because of that. Sure, of course they say that. When they made that pronouncement they still were operating under the assumption that Flo didn’t like Bing and here now this new sketch is getting rave reviews. So, of course they’re going to say B is the best: they thought Revised Comp B was the first sketch that had achieved a consensus from their best witnesses…but it wasn’t.   

No Ryan, the FBI's claim is not appeal to authority fallacy....  you need to take that College logic course again. In fact, you are using appeal to authority fallacy if you claim what your eye witness will say has any bearing on this case.

But, Tina said she never saw his face, Flo was flakey and I think maybe Alice drove that bad sketch A with with the Micheal Jackson nose. It is a bad sketch anybody with a brain can see it,, it is too young, to androgynous, the nose is ridiculous and it doesn't even look human. Some sketches are good and some are bad... that one was bad and we don't really know why..  sometimes I wonder if the stews intentionally created a bad sketch.

Generally, evidence closer to the event is more accurate, you are right. Except that isn't universally true. You are using a generalization fallacy.... You assume the processes that created those sketches were equivalent, they were not.

My research on eye witness testimony is that they are very poor at details unless it is something very unique.. The FBI updated the identification catalog to block out areas of the image because with the full face shown people would subconsciously recognize something but not know exactly what it was... people recognize something familiar in the image but can't articulate it. Anyway, they changed the images in the catalog to isolate features.

Murphy closely matches sketch B which was created much later..

Though still a sketch,, Sketch B is the best likeness....  not A

[olemisscub 521]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

But, Tina said she never saw his face, Flo was flakey and I think maybe Alice drove that bad sketch A with with the Micheal Jackson nose. It is a bad sketch anybody with a brain can see it,, it is too young, to androgynous, the nose is ridiculous and it doesn't even look human. Some sketches are good and some are bad... that one was bad and we don't really know why..  sometimes I wonder if the stews intentionally created a bad sketch.

 

Half a century later you're suggesting that Comp A is a bad sketch despite not a single eyewitness having a major problem with it. Its only criticisms were essentially tweaks. All of them saw Cooper. None of us did. What gives you the right to say that it is a "bad" sketch? How do you know that?

Tina - "100% like him"

Flo - "Likes drawing very much"

Alice - "Could not pinpoint any characteristic about the sketch she didn't like"

Bill - "Everything from nose up is good. Mouth also good."

Spreckel - "if face were widened one sixteenth of an inch it would be an excellent likeness"

Hal - "artist's conception very good overall"

Gregory - "resemblance good"

Labisonniere [arguably its harshest critic] - "hijacker had an overall appearance in some ways similar to artist's conception." 

 

 

Edited March 7 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 521]

46 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It is a bad sketch anybody with a brain can see it,, it is too young, to androgynous, the nose is ridiculous and it doesn't even look human.

Yet we have several HUMAN suspects who look like it. 

 

 

 

[FLYJACK 729]

Yes, it is a bad sketch... could be the reason this case wasn't solved.

The main difference is sketch B is wider with a wider nose, there are some other minor tweaks, but largely the width.

Ultimately, the FBI and the witnesses collectively created sketch B as being better using a more comprehensive process. Sketch A was quick and dirty..

If Cooper had that Michael Jackson nose they all would've said so in their initial interviews..  Alice said nose small, that is subjective.. but she was the only one and why I suspect she was being Sketch A's ridiculous nose.

The FBI never described Cooper as having a narrow nose..

 

You have an opinion.. you run with that.

This image among other evidence is the death blow for your opinion..

Edited March 7 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 729]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Yet we have several HUMAN suspects who look like it. 

 

 

 

Who is we,,,  those aren't my suspects. That tiny nose eliminates them.

[FLYJACK 729]

2 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Half a century later you're suggesting that Comp A is a bad sketch despite not a single eyewitness having a major problem with it. Its only criticisms were essentially tweaks. All of them saw Cooper. None of us did. What gives you the right to say that it is a "bad" sketch? How do you know that?

I have every right, what right do you have to challenge my rights...

Sketch B was created using a more comprehensive process. B was not created because of the attribution error of Flo's statement. The FBI stated B was the best likeness...  B closely matches Murphy. A was created very fast....

When they liked parts of A they did not have B...   Witnesses were aware of A and they created and chose B. Case closed.

There is no evidence A is better. none. You don't even have a reasonable argument.

I forgot.... that undisclosed image of Cooper I obtained supports B not A... the evidence for B is just overwhelming.

Edited March 7 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 521]

45 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

You don't even have a reasonable argument.

 

Tina - "100% like him"

Flo - "Likes drawing very much"

Alice - "Could not pinpoint any characteristic about the sketch she didn't like"

Bill - "Everything from nose up is good. Mouth also good."

Spreckel - "if face were widened one sixteenth of an inch it would be an excellent likeness"

Hal - "artist's conception very good overall"

Gregory - "resemblance good"

Labisonniere [arguably its harshest critic] - "hijacker had an overall appearance in some ways similar to artist's conception." 

[olemisscub 521]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Who is we,,,  those aren't my suspects. That tiny nose eliminates them.

Canadians don't have the royal "we"? We as in humanity. The Cooper community. The Cosmos. 

And just to be clear, when we inevitably get the stews rejecting Hahneman's photo, you're going to claim their memory was faulty...while simultaneously claiming their memory was good enough to make Comp B four of five months AFTER they are shown Hahneman's photo?

[FLYJACK 729]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Tina - "100% like him"

Flo - "Likes drawing very much"

Alice - "Could not pinpoint any characteristic about the sketch she didn't like"

Bill - "Everything from nose up is good. Mouth also good."

Spreckel - "if face were widened one sixteenth of an inch it would be an excellent likeness"

Hal - "artist's conception very good overall"

Gregory - "resemblance good"

Labisonniere [arguably its harshest critic] - "hijacker had an overall appearance in some ways similar to artist's conception." 

You conflate two different arguments..  sketch B is the best likeness when witnesses were shown A they didn't have B.. 

Tina said she never saw Cooper's face, you know that but still use her claim.

Flo was kooky,, she later said none of the sketches was right.

Bill was critical...

Gregory was also critical,,

None of those comments make A better then B,, witnesses are commenting on a sketch they believe everyone else liked.. 

They were not comparing A to B..

Edited March 7 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 729]

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

Canadians don't have the royal "we"? We as in humanity. The Cooper community. The Cosmos. 

And just to be clear, when we inevitably get the stews rejecting Hahneman's photo, you're going to claim their memory was faulty...while simultaneously claiming their memory was good enough to make Comp B four of five months AFTER they are shown Hahneman's photo?

I didn't see psychic on your resume..

I have images of Hahneman that look look completely different. He looks like like three completely different people in those images.

Even several witnesses in Hahneman's hijacking were shown his actual image and said no not him..

 

Edited March 7 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 155]

4 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Yet we have several HUMAN suspects who look like it. 

 

 

 

Who are the suspects that look like A? Or POIs or whatever term we are using. 

[CooperNWO305 155]

4 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Who are the suspects that look like A? Or POIs or whatever term we are using. 

Ok. The pics didn’t load for me the first time. 

[CooperNWO305 155]

I’ll be starting to work on a new blog entry on William J. Smith, and some updates to my website. I might do a YouTube video on him. Stay tuned. Some new info. May take a while, no rush. 

[The Cooper Vortex 102]

Part 4 of our book review series with my good friend Nicole Legg is out now!

https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ahfnj-18358cb

Enjoy!

[The Cooper Vortex 102]

The 5th and final installment of our book review series with my good friend Nicole Legg is out now!

https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-6w3wf-1848537 

Enjoy!

[FLYJACK 729]

Johnston was arrested 2:25 AM of the 24th not PM in the afternoon...

 

[olemisscub 521]

7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Johnston was arrested 2:25 AM of the 24th not PM in the afternoon...

 

Yes, I caught that today. What I was looking at said PM. But apparently he's written up in the Longview Journal on the 24th which stated that he was arrested "earlier today", so that clinches it. Definitely going with AM now. Regardless, those serial numbers are too close for comfort. Something stinks with him. 

 

Edited March 20 by olemisscub

[FLYJACK 729]

He is a really interesting guy..  he did live in the area previously and had many arrests in the PNW years before. What a long rap sheet...  So, he had a prior connection to the area.

The bill numbers aren't that significant,, I have found $20 bills one number off.

You have 9998 random bill numbers that can be close.

Edited March 20 by FLYJACK

[olemisscub 521]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

He is a really interesting guy..  he did live in the area previously and had many arrests in the PNW years before. What a long rap sheet...  So, he had a prior connection to the area.

The bill numbers aren't that significant,, I have found $20 bills one number off.

You have 9998 random bill numbers that can be close.

I just ran a very unscientific test of all the 1969 L series 20's on ebay and compared them to ransom list to see how many numbers I could get. 

no digits - 1

two digits - 2

three digits - 12

four digits - 4

So, the top one is only interesting because of possible metathesis or scrivener's error and knowing that I can get 4 digits in on about a fifth of the random bills on ebay makes the bottom one not so impressive. 

 

Regardless, it's definitely interesting that he turns up randomly a month after he's eliminated. It's not as if the police chief in Astoria knew he had been investigated for being Cooper.  Him being picked up in the AM doesn't really change much aside from him not being able to be the drop-off accomplice. Perhaps originally it was going to be a two-man job or perhaps Cooper was the accomplice and he stole Johnston's idea and did it himself when Johnston failed to show back up that night. 

We live and breathe coincidences in the Vortex and I spend a fair amount of time on the Facebook groups naysaying the people who talk about "this thing in the file can't be a coincidence!" (Samdal asking about jumping out of a 727, McClellan's plane, Ben Leibson's rental house, etc), but Johnston makes me somewhat uneasy. An older burned out ex-con who is an unlicensed pilot and also has limited skydiving experience is really what I'm after when I'm thinking about the kind of person who would devise this heist. 

Most likely it's a nothingburger, but so far he's the "coincidence" that I think is least likely to be a genuine coincidence that has come from the files. 

Edited March 20 by olemisscub

[Slylock 2]

I learned recently there was an army air corps officer named Dan Cooper on Howland Island awaiting Amelia Earhart’s arrival.  I remember there being a lot of speculation about the Dan cooper comic book character as inspiration of the name being an important clue.  But I don’t remember ever hearing this Amelia Earhart connection being a possible clue.