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BobKnoss 0
Quoteanything in a metal can (milk can) for that many years would have rusted and leaked! I would say it would take a massive wash out in order to pull it out from the earths suction, that close to the river would make the ground very moist causing more damage to the (milk can) as each year passed, not plausible!!
Despite its uses in storing and transporting milk, milk cans had a few faults. Milk cans lacked insulation, so on warm days the milk would start to sour in the can. There wasn't an adequate covering for the milk cans. the milk can was used for transporting milk and not meant to be submerged!
Even in 1971 milk cans were considered "Old School" and were rarely used by farmers, if one was found on a farm, it was probably already rusted in in disrepair.
in 1938, the first farm bulk tanks began to pick up the milk from farmer. That development sounded the death knell for the utilitarian milk can
Fact is, the money was buried in a standard milk can. Speculate on condition or moisture content of the soil all you wish. Duane couldn't find where he buried the can, but the money surfaced, we can only guess how, and the '79 flood is the obvious culprit. Rusted or not, popped up or stayed buried, immaterial. Some or all of the remaining money FLOATED out of the can. 10 feet, 100 feet, 500 feet or more. It was found in a confined area, not over a long distributive trail. This lends credence to the original burial being at or near Tena Bar and the release in 1979. Pretty simple natural science it would seem.
BobKnoss 0
QuoteYeah, Georger...first decent post from you in a while.
Georger says in part:Quote'Some 'people' have advanced the idea to the point of even assuming it, that the bundles found at Tena Bar match the 'money' Cooper pulled from his bag and offered Tina Mucklow. Then when Tina rejects the money Cooper stuffs it into his coat pocket, and loses it out of his coat pocket later? I dont buy that theory at all....'
Guilty. I was dumb enough to fall for that one as well - at first. Like I said, I don't lie to people, but sometimes I DO get it wrong.
Knowing the real facts as I do, Blevins, if you really, really wrote all those falsiehoods believing what Poisonous was reporting, you got so much wrong that you have to be the biggest pushover since Humpty-Dumpty. Add to that the fact that you have yet to contribute to one single element of the Cooper case that actually will be shown to have merit. I honestly find it impossible to accept that you do not intentionally lie to people, based on your activities on Rigina Site and other dirty tricks. The ENTIRE Blast book is NOTHING but straw man tales and misdirection prompted by KC's brother and associates. I was privy to the deception plans. Ask Geoff or Jim! Bad hole to dig yourself out of, there. Bad. Really bad.
mrshutter45 21
very good, now as caretakeral you first said "a can" then you changed it to a milk can, and now you wish to change it once again to a "standard milk can"
flood of 1979? bob, now you are pin pointing scientific answers to exactly how the money was released? only 3 bundles were found that stayed together?
a milk can in the ground for 8 years would not "pop up" like you say it would, again not plausible.
you said Duane couldn't find the money and yet you know exactly how, where and why it showed up on Tena Bar, AMAZING!
that is as crazy as you telling people your records were "wiped clean" (see photo)
flood of 1979? bob, now you are pin pointing scientific answers to exactly how the money was released? only 3 bundles were found that stayed together?
a milk can in the ground for 8 years would not "pop up" like you say it would, again not plausible.
you said Duane couldn't find the money and yet you know exactly how, where and why it showed up on Tena Bar, AMAZING!
that is as crazy as you telling people your records were "wiped clean" (see photo)
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
BobKnoss 0
Quotevery good, now as caretakeral you first said "a can" then you changed it to a milk can, and now you wish to change it once again to a "standard milk can"
As opposed to stainless milk can, or plastic milk can, or rusty milk can, or 7 gallon milk can, or cream can. Just a regular milk can. Yah, that works for me. Mac described it as just a regular milk can that was in really good shape, which was unexpected. He also found a shovel there, not left intentionally. Go fish!
flood of 1979? Bob, now you are pin pointing scientific answers to exactly how the money was released? only 3 bundles were found that stayed together?
Generic discussion, Jesus! Flood that Georger put in 1979 or so, based on Carr's analysis. The kid admitted to 3 bundles, nobody else discussed finding more....... Lot's more was found 'down under' in shreaded pieces, deep as three feet under dredgings. Supposition by logic as stated. What is this, "Pin the tail on the Donkey?"
a milk can in the ground for 8 years would not "pop up" like you say it would, again not plausible.
Prove it. Study underground burial in New Orleans and effects of floods. Covers the subject satisfactorily from my point of view.
you said Duane couldn't find the money and yet you know exactly how, where and why it showed up on Tena Bar, AMAZING!
Supposition as clearly stated. Using logic and known facts. It is an educated guess, just like Kaye. You are attempting to badger again.
that is as crazy as you telling people your records were "wiped clean" .
"Purdged" is the term Mac used. You will find no record of anything I did under McCoy's direction in my files. All records of anything pertaining to Norjak in my files have been wiped clean, erased, purged, by McCoy. There is nothing unusual in my files, anymore. I was never inducted into the Military, only coersed to function under McCoy by Commander John Anderson. Everything I have stated is absolutely true, so help me , God. And I have NOT told everything.
Cross your legs, grab your shorts and hold on. Don't argue about facts, look them up. Nice to see there might be something there, but don't get your hopes up, we've been there before.
Robert99 50
QuoteKnowing the real facts as I do, Blevins, if you really, really wrote all those falsiehoods believing what Poisonous was reporting, you got so much wrong that you have to be the biggest pushover since Humpty-Dumpty. Add to that the fact that you have yet to contribute to one single element of the Cooper case that actually will be shown to have merit. I honestly find it impossible to accept that you do not intentionally lie to people, based on your activities on Rigina Site and other dirty tricks. The ENTIRE Blast book is NOTHING but straw man tales and misdirection prompted by KC's brother and associates. I was privy to the deception plans. Ask Geoff or Jim! Bad hole to dig yourself out of, there. Bad. Really bad.
Blevins, I assume that you are going to insist on playing yourself in your upcoming movie. In fact, there is probably no one else up to that task.
My suggestion is that you get Marla to play your love interest. After all, you have been keeping close tabs on her since she tried to elbow her way into the Cooper matter at you expense. So you already know her talents.
Birds of a feather fly together. Shakespeare?
Robert99 50
Does this mean that you are going to start the movie with a screen shot giving one of your famous quotations such as:
"Maybe KC was D.B. Cooper. Maybe he wasn't. Who the hell knows?"
"Maybe KC was D.B. Cooper. Maybe he wasn't. Who the hell knows?"
BobKnoss 0
"I finally came to my conclusions on KC based on four main things:
1) The general evidence against Christiansen, i.e. his letters home, his patterns of spending after the hijacking, results of the investigation in 2007 by Geoff Gray, his background as a paratrooper, and many other items."
If your number one supporting fact is Geoffrey Gray, you just admitted printing trash, because Gray won't go along with your story, that's why he won't support you guys! You are funnier than JACK BENNY!!! Oh, my!
1) The general evidence against Christiansen, i.e. his letters home, his patterns of spending after the hijacking, results of the investigation in 2007 by Geoff Gray, his background as a paratrooper, and many other items."
If your number one supporting fact is Geoffrey Gray, you just admitted printing trash, because Gray won't go along with your story, that's why he won't support you guys! You are funnier than JACK BENNY!!! Oh, my!
mrshutter45 21
well, first of all Bobby, your can, milk can, standard milk can is not waterproof, so, over the 8 years it was in the ground water levels would have changed over time leaving sediments in the container in question! the money would be in a Disintegrated condition, far worse than the condition found! (IMHO) there were many more floods before 79! just think about how that money would look!
as in "might be something there" is far different from "wiped clean" expunged (correct spelling) or the other words you used for not there! I am sending for your classification just to make sure!
you keep telling people to walk the walk, well I'm doing just that ! your background starting from your Draft is where this story begins correct? you want to prove all of this, well this is and will be a chance to prove your story! we can't start your story after you were drafted, wouldn't be flare 
flare was intentional
did Mac find the Milk can in good shape or did Duane? "Mac described it as just a regular milk can that was in really good shape, which was unexpected"
why would that be unexpected in 1971? your story follows with improvements when things are discovered?
let the record show that Bob has now claimed the can to be in "really good shape" improving the theory 
So, just for the hell of it, lets call him Cooper, we now have Cooper landing on the west side of the river and hiked 15-20 miles south around Tena Bar on the east side of the river correct? did he still bury the chute under the old fire tower? the boy was busy! or did he hike North and cross the river then move east and finally South down "around Tena Bar?
did he carry the chute and money and dig separate holes with two separate shovels?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
mrshutter45 21
where was your court hearing held?
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
BobKnoss 0
Quotewhere was your court hearing held?
Bloomington, Mn.
I don't think court hearing is an accurate description. I was hypnotized then questioned under hypnosis. I was told I was found guilty and not to argue about it. I signed a sheet of paper marked top secret. Commander Anderson read the sentence and they left with instructions for the hypnotist to finish with me. Hardly a legal hearing.
This would have been the first week in April, 1968, on a Wednesday to the best of my recollection. It was two to three weeks after my induction walk-out. I failed to attend my first appointment here. The location was on the west side of the street, Lyndale Ave. South, in Bloomington, MN. They called it, Dr. David Black's? Office, but there was just a small black sign in the window and a street no. over the door.
The building was a creme colored single story brick building with a single door in the front center. There were two large glass panes with aluminum framing on either side of the door covering most of the front of the building. There were heavy black curtains around the north side of the front room, and a huge ceramic Barber/ dental/ optometrist chair with furniture around it. There were two of those old varnished brown 8' folding tables with the black trim around the edge and a half dozen or so tan metal folding chairs. The building was built with a sidewalk between it and the street, like most downtown areas. It had a side exit on the north side of the building about 40 feet off the sidewalk. All linoleum in light brown shades, tiles on the floor. It was isolated, but near other stores in a business area several blocks north of Old Shakopee Road. Gray has the co-odinates of what I believe could have been the place. It may have been the Bloomington Armory at the time, since Anderson was there. That was a long time ago, but I do remember what happened very clearly. Most of it word for word.
mrshutter45 21
why was there a need to hypnotize you if McCoy was helping you? how many times did you go to this building?
Don't forget the questions above the post about your hearing!!!
Don't forget the questions above the post about your hearing!!!
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
BobKnoss 0
Quotewhy was there a need to hypnotize you if McCoy was helping you? how many times did you go to this building?
McCoy conducted the questioning in the presence of Anderson. I assume it was to insure that I told the truth, as I had claimed CO status. I only went to this building once in 1968, and again recently with Geoff Gray. No other times.
Don't forget the questions above the post about your hearing!!!
mrshutter45 21
well, again it seems your memory works amazingly well with everything except things about Bob, the details you give about the building and then turn around and say things such as "it was before I was hypnotized" when asked about Bob dates?
you were only there once and were able to describe it very well, you would of not noticed much while leaving?
after the hypnotizing.
you were only there once and were able to describe it very well, you would of not noticed much while leaving?
after the hypnotizing.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
BobKnoss 0
Quotewell, first of all Bobby, your can, milk can, standard milk can is not waterproof, so, over the 8 years it was in the ground water levels would have changed over time leaving sediments in the container in question! the money would be in a Disintegrated condition, far worse than the condition found! (IMHO) there were many more floods before 79! just think about how that money would look!
I don't have the experience to make any conclusions as you seem to be able to do. I think there is a wide span of variables you can not predict with enough accuracy to draw a conclusion. Sorry. We differ.
as in "might be something there" is far different from "wiped clean" expunged (correct spelling) or the other words you used for not there! I am sending for your classification just to make sure!
OK. Good. Expunged is Mac's word. My attorney said, "Nothing there." Don't know for sure what that means.
you keep telling people to walk the walk, well I'm doing just that ! your background starting from your Draft is where this story begins correct? you want to prove all of this, well this is and will be a chance to prove your story! we can't start your story after you were drafted, wouldn't be flareflare was intentional
WRONG AGAIN!! I was not drafted. I was sent a notice, nothing more.
did Mac find the Milk can in good shape or did Duane? "Mac described it as just a regular milk can that was in really good shape, which was unexpected"
Duane found the can. Duane reported to Mac what happened.
why would that be unexpected in 1971? your story follows with improvements when things are discovered?
No, I don't spend the time to tell the entire word for word story on most of this because it gets boring. It would be unexpected because the place was deserted. A nice can would be a surprise, a shovel would not be expected.
let the record show that Bob has now claimed the can to be in "really good shape" improving the theory.
Well, you claimed it was all rusted out, and that triggered it was not what Mac said. I asked him the same thing you proposed for the same reason. I can add what you help me to remember. I am still experiencing recall.
So, just for the hell of it, lets call him Cooper, we now have Cooper landing on the XXXX side of the river and hiked 15-20 miles south around Tena Bar on the east side of the river correct? did he still bury the chute under the old fire tower? the boy was busy! or did he hike North and cross the river then move east and finally South down "around Tena Bar?
I'd guess the east side of the river, not west. Isn't that what my proposed map shows? If Jo still says he buried it under a tower of some sort, that is all I have on the chute subject, nothing more other than Carr's statement.
did he carry the chute and money and dig separate holes with two separate shovels?
Jo's story on burying the chute, ask her. The money was buried under a tree by the river, with a shovel, in a milk can that was not all rusted out, it was in good shape. I don't think Jo's information is very often correct, so I do not rely on it. I just acknowledge it. She told me something about burying something by an old shed, too. I ignored it.
That could be interesting. I had relatives at
Vancouver and Portland during the whole Cooper
saga. Concerning the money discovery my
impression is feelings & opinions ran the gamut
against a general background of surprise. Surprise
because newspaper coverage had placed the arena
of the Cooper activity well north of Portland-VCVR.
By 1976, for example, FBI Himmelsbach himself had
placed Cooper's bailout as being 12 miles north of
Vancouver (in a well publicised newspaper interview).
With the money find many people now believed
Cooper had survived, made his way south back to
Portland, and got separated from some of his
money somehow, perhaps in an altercation in one
of the hobo camps that dotted the area west to
the Tena Bar area. Some people wondered if Cooper
had managed to jump a train and come south, then
crossed the Columbia at Vancouver trying to get
back to Portland (and was separated from some of
his money there?).
I can tell you that the Janet story, for example,
was not commonly known, so far as I know, but a
few people in Janet's circle did know of her and her
husband's account - there should be FBI paperwork
if she did in fact contact the FBI about her story. Mr.
Tosaw heard the story directly from Janet years later,
at a book signing, by all accounts, and not from FBI
sources.
The official FBI version was the Palmer theory, so far
as I know. Some agents were not sure his theory
worked. One question I have always wondered about
is if the Portland and Seattle offices (their agents)
were in total agreement, in accepting the Palmer
theory? I dont have an answer to that, or even
opinion. In particular I don't know what the lead
agent at Vancouver thought in spite of the fact I
have always been told he was a true expert on the
Cooper case, in all of its facets, and thoroughly
professional, but never gave interviews and was
never sought out for interviews for some reason?
He is long deceased, for whatever that's worth.
I know the discovery of the money caused a
scramble at Vancouver-Portland, areas were
explored and searched by all kinds of people
immediately after the money find, but again
my impression is interest died down pretty quickly
after the excavation at Tena Bar ended.
It would be interesting to see what you can develop
on this basic question.
Some 'people' have advanced the idea to the point
of even assuming it, that the bundles found at Tena
Bar match the 'money' Cooper pulled from his bag
and offered Tina Mucklow. Then when Tina rejects
the money Cooper stuffs it into his coat pocket, and
loses it out of his coat pocket later? I dont buy that
theory at all.
We have debated, tested and research everything we can on a thread. It is time for some more GROUND work in WA. I don't mean the river or the money - I want the citizen Sleuths to DISPROVE my claim. Shocked!
Well, don't be! This will be done and hopefully while I am a still a warm body on this earth. You do know files have been made available to the public never ever available before and these are NOT FBI files. The footprints are there - right were I said they were.
If you or the FBI have PROOF Weber was NOT Cooper - speak now or forever hold you piece - think that is supposed to be peace.
I suggest the FBI get their PHOTO ID system up and running at peak performance. Tahoe is up for the job at hand. You'll Never Know If You Don't Know Now....remember that song?
Duane sang it on bended knee on our wedding night with a full band hehind him. Duane was known for his voice and his ability to sing.... this goes WAY back when!
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