BobKnoss 0 #32151 April 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteSome more information on the aft stairs. ... What was the approximate date of the unknown caller's inquiry on the stairs? Spring 1968? The short answer is I don't know. The longer answer is that Jayme and her family seem to think that it was close enough in time to the Cooper skyjacking for the grandfather, Stan Gilliam, to make a connection between the phone call and the hijacking. Jayme is saying maybe months before the skyjacking, which would make it still 1971 and not 1968. However, family discussions on the subject are now proceeding more robustly, and Jayme will have more to say on the subject in the near furture, I am sure. She made a video interview of her grandfather just before he passed away, and when that is reviewed I suspect more pertinent information will be forthcoming. One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight. Tog did his investigation on the subject in the spring of 1968. He would not have made an inquiry in 1971 because he had almost forgotten about the Project. It came as a surprise to him. Cooper was not the type to investigate technical data, and particularly not after having gotten all the information from TOG earlier. There was another hijacker just before Cooper who used a pistol. Two weeks before Cooper’s hijacking, a passenger named Paul Cini brandished a handgun aboard an Air Canada flight over Montana. According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute. This could be your caller. He was NOT associated with Norjak, and he was not too bright. This would be my expert guess based on observing the guys do their research. TOG had constant access to the stairs for dimensions. Would not logically fit Norjak especially if it was not pre-70. Look at the 727 testing dates and the dates of the rumored military action with the tail stairs. Timeline needs to be earlier for Norjak. Who says it even has to be Cooper? Just my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #32152 April 26, 2012 You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. Since the "bomb" parts were left on the plane it is safe to assume it was a "fake". I think that is a relatively safe assumption. There are a ton of things one can extrapolate from the remnants of information, but you ALL refuse to check ANY of it. The BYU Medallion, the reported wind directions and a 15-35 mile location discrepancy, dead reckoning, Janet's sighting, McCoy's visit to Janet, The Co-Pilot's meeting with Ralph, Cooper's missing notes to the cockpit, the X parachute debacle, O'Hara's promise to keep a secret, missing radio transcripts, Scott's missing final statement, KC's written note to Lyle in his will, Tina's BlueBird zombie state of mind, my entire offering of information, the Walker timeline connection to the McCoy/O'Hara team, Goerge Tenent's admissions, un-interviewed known witnesses, lack of honest investigation by the FBI, constant misdirection by the Cooper Crew, obvious falsehoods ignored while major points are made of insignificant trivia, International records IGNORED, number one suspect protected from any discussion, the Cooper Vane, the Pilot's Union activities in 1967-8 IGNORED, leader covered up, McCoy's photographs from 1995 and later, and the list just goes on and on. Point is proven with beyond any reasonable question, guys. You REFUSE to approach any of the above topics, only discuss evidence that is planted or erroneous, and make only conclusions that support some alternative hoax. Unbelievable. Nixon incarnate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #32153 April 26, 2012 QuoteBruce Smith says in part: Quote'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. Blevins, This could indeed mean a lot of different things. But maybe the Mysterious Caller was mainly concerned with how opening the stairs would affect HIM. And remember that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs opened and that there were only two people in the cabin at that time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #32154 April 26, 2012 "There was another hijacker just before Cooper who used a pistol. Two weeks before Cooper’s hijacking, a passenger named Paul Cini brandished a handgun aboard an Air Canada flight over Montana. According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute. This could be your caller. He was NOT associated with Norjak, and he was not too bright." let's read the real version Two weeks before Cooper’s hijacking, a passenger named Paul Cini brandished a handgun aboard an Air Canada flight over Montana. He extorted money and a parachute, just like Cooper, but he was rushed and subdued by the jet’s crew when he put down the gun to don the parachute. The FBI’s Himmelsbach has said he believes Cooper borrowed his basic plan from Cini and the detail of a bomb in his briefcase from the plot of “Airport,” the disaster flick released six months before the Cooper hijacking. you are mixing two different hijackings, A quick-thinking stewardess slipped three Valiums into Tripp's drink, and the plane never left the ground. During the ten hour standoff, Tripp lowered his demands, and released all 52 of the passengers, settling for three cheeseburgers and a demand to be driven from the airport in a rental car by the two pilots left with him. (July 11, 1980) "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #32155 April 26, 2012 you are mixing two different hijackings, A quick-thinking stewardess slipped three Valiums into Tripp's drink, and the plane never left the ground. During the ten hour standoff, Tripp lowered his demands, and released all 52 of the passengers, settling for three cheeseburgers and a demand to be driven from the airport in a rental car by the two pilots left with him. (July 11, 1980) Yes. That sounds accurate. He traded the gun for three cheesburgers. I thought it was just one. Can't believe anything written about hyjackers nowadays, it's all lies! That could be your caller. Or, it could have been Mr. Ed. Yah, that's it! Makes perfect sense. Explains the four canopies and the olive green complexion. Horseface, hisself! Blevins would certify that one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #32156 April 26, 2012 "According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute" "I thought it was just one" ("I", being the word that sticks out) can we finally come to terms that McCoy is in your head? you originally said McCoy told you. "Can't believe anything written about hyjackers nowadays" this would include yourself, you do realize this, correct?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #32157 April 26, 2012 QuoteBruce Smith says in part: Quote'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. The individual could also have had very little Pressurized Air frame Experience, and wanted to make sure no one would be "sucked out". Kind of makes any "trained" and airline 'experienced" suspects, well suspect. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #32158 April 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteBruce Smith says in part: Quote'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. The individual could also have had very little Pressurized Air frame Experience, and wanted to make sure no one would be "sucked out". Kind of makes any "trained" and airline 'experienced" suspects, well suspect. Matt when was the call made?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #32159 April 26, 2012 I think Bruce will be the one who will have the answer eventually. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #32160 April 26, 2012 Quote"According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute" "I thought it was just one" ("I", being the word that sticks out) can we finally come to terms that McCoy is in your head? you originally said McCoy told you. "Can't believe anything written about hyjackers nowadays" this would include yourself, you do realize this, correct? You betcha, Masked Man. Going through my pictures of the episode this morning I see development dates on all my slides. July 1967 for our belated spring honeymoon to Grand Canyon and a visit to Denny N. and his wife. Pictures of my new 67 VW, all the period stuff. My pictures arrived right after we returned. When the SS records get here I expect it to be even one year earlier than I thought. As I said, this was not an overnight thing, it took years to evolve, but now I've got better record of when things happened. Right after Duane jumped, we moved to Haapala's company. Amazing what one can learn from a couple documented dates, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #32161 April 26, 2012 Quote"According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute" "I thought it was just one" ("I", being the word that sticks out) can we finally come to terms that McCoy is in your head? you originally said McCoy told you. Yup! McCoy said. I believe McCoy. McCoy said, "sandwich" or "sandwiches", not three cheeseburgers. I believe there was at least one sandwich, which may have been a cheeseburger or more. I think the stories correlate sufficiently well for recounting irrelevant history from 1971. I'll take another two points. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #32162 April 26, 2012 thought and believe are two different words. you slipped up period, you said "I thought it was just one" meaning you! you didn't say you disagreed with McCoy, stop using the quick damage control button! the correct response would have been, I'll inform McCoy of his mistake! no more twisters!"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #32163 April 26, 2012 Quotethought and believe are two different words. you slipped up period, you said "I thought it was just one" meaning you! you didn't say you disagreed with McCoy, stop using the quick damage control button! the correct response would have been, I'll inform McCoy of his mistake! no more twisters! I don't communicate regularly with Richard. He was very polite during our last telephone exchange, but I suspect he'd like to be left out of this. He stirred the pot, but it is not his kitchen. He was serving as an immigration advisor/advocate, which is typical for this generous and helping man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #32164 April 26, 2012 "certification" means nothing. If you want a document that has any legal clout prepare it as a sworn affidavit or declaration and get your signature notarized. Even a factually false affidavit or declaration about McCoy being alive etc wont expose BK to any realistic chance of a perjury charge. Nobody cares, it's just noise. It's like an inventors affidavit that he has made a working perpetual motion machine that can perform work. It's false, but so what? Maybe the inventor affiant truly believes his claims. Maybe Bob believes he saw Duane Weber training as a parachutist. Sigh... Can we disengage a bit with BK and get back to some serious Cooper dialogue? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #32165 April 26, 2012 Quote Quote Bruce Smith says in part: Quote 'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. Blevins, This could indeed mean a lot of different things. But maybe the Mysterious Caller was mainly concerned with how opening the stairs would affect HIM. And remember that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs opened and that there were only two people in the cabin at that time. .... well, its obvious, that can only be Geestman! Maybe Blevins will claim Geestman was fired/booted off some Citizen Sleuth Team Thingy, tooey? Geestman needs to get his emotions under control? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #32166 April 26, 2012 Quote"certification" means nothing. If you want a document that has any legal clout prepare it as a sworn affidavit or declaration and get your signature notarized. Even a factually false affidavit or declaration about McCoy being alive etc wont expose BK to any realistic chance of a perjury charge. Nobody cares, it's just noise. It's like an inventors affidavit that he has made a working perpetual motion machine that can perform work. It's false, but so what? Maybe the inventor affiant truly believes his claims. Maybe Bob believes he saw Duane Weber training as a parachutist. Sigh... Can we disengage a bit with BK and get back to some serious Cooper dialogue? 377 How about Blevin's LIBEL of me!? Something you have some personal knowledge of and yet sit idly by allowing it to happen - pretty self serving? It never ceases to amaze me here how some things just skate by, if your concern really is "get back to some serious Cooper dialogue?" ? The bias is apparent. Wasn't it counsel who said: : "Its all good"! How about some equity for the other side, Judge? Credibility? Truth? Counsel has facts he is not sharing! RobertMBlevins United States Jumps License In sport : : Apr 26, 2012, 12:38 AM Post #33939 of 33955 (144 views) Shortcut Registered: Aug 1, 2010 Posts: 1869 Re: [georger] Aft Stairs and the Boeing test program [In reply to] Can't Post Georger: I'm beginning to understand WHY you got booted off the Citizens' Sleuth team... Gotta get control of those emotions. ?????????????????????????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #32167 April 26, 2012 Quote Georger: I'm beginning to understand WHY you got booted off the Citizens' Sleuth team... Gotta get control of those emotions. Who told you this, Blevins? What's the basis for your libel against me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #32168 April 26, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Georger: I'm beginning to understand WHY you got booted off the Citizens' Sleuth team... Gotta get control of those emotions. Who told you this, Blevins? What's the basis for your libel against me? A reliable source. You should know where to go to ask about it. Let me ask you this: Did you reveal information that they didn't want you to? Besides, after the dozens of insults you have posted about me, you have a lot of nerve. You asked for it, now stop whining. I just had a nice conversation with Tom Kaye who says, quote: "What's he talking about - you weret kicked off the team!". So Mr. Blevins, once again. you either are making this up or your source doesnt know what they are talking about. Who is your socalled "reliable source"? You shouldnt be posting information you have no personal knowledge or verification of, in any event. And to quote someone else close to this matter, quote: "Why doesn't Quade kick Blevins off?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b1jercat 0 #32169 April 27, 2012 no shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #32170 April 27, 2012 has anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #32171 April 27, 2012 Quotehas anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet? I think there was a post on this subject within the past month of so. And I believe it said that Tom Kaye measured the length of the missing shroud lines and that it was about the equivalent of two shroud lines (maybe three). Each shroud line on the reserve from the riser to the skirt of the canopy is about 15 feet long. So that would be about 30 (maybe 45) feet of shroud line used by Cooper. In reality, that isn't an excessive amount for just tying the money bag to the harness or his body. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #32172 April 27, 2012 Quotehas anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet? See the page on Toms site where Carol measured the lines - its very detailed - she did a spectacular job with that. I forget the numbers, Its near the end at Tom's site; am sure you will find it. .... G. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #32173 April 27, 2012 Five cords on the pink parachute had cut lines: Line #7 had 186 ¾ inches of cord removed Line #11 had 169 ¾ inches of cord removed Line #12 had 169 inches of cord removed Line #15 had 213 inches of cord removed Line #22 had 217 ¼ inches of cord removed The length of an uncut cord (including the double-sewn cord used to tie into the cross-connector, the bundle of cords located between the butterfly snap-hook rings in the reserve container) is 218 inches (or 18.2 feet). Exactly how much suspension line is currently missing from the pink parachute? 955 ¾ inches (or 79.6 feet). Exactly how much suspension line did D.B. Cooper use to wrap the bundle of money to his waist? If the investigative search of the plane was conducted a mere 24 minutes after the plane touched down in Reno, NV and the number of cut cords recorded by the search team at that time was two, it suggests that Cooper removed two shroud lines (suspension lines) from the pink parachute. Logically, it seems as though the hijacker would grab two cords at the same time and make only one cut, rather than choosing lines individually and cutting them separately. Lines #11 and #12 seem the most plausible two, being a mere ¼ inch difference in length and located next to each other on the canopy. If D.B. Cooper took these two lines, he took a total of 338 ¾ inches (28.2 feet) of cord with him. If he doubled-up the cords for extra security during the jump, he used 169 ¾ inches (or 14.1 feet) of cord. Two cords vs. Three cords Whether two cords or three cords were cut remains a debate. Tina Mucklow asked the hijacker during the flight to cut some of the chute cord for her to possibly use as a safety line when the aft stairs were lowered, so as to not be sucked out of the plane [2]. Mucklow stated that Cooper informed her that she didn't need a cord. Was an additional cord cut from the chute at the time for Mucklow, but never used?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #32174 April 27, 2012 QuoteQuotehas anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet? I think there was a post on this subject within the past month of so. And I believe it said that Tom Kaye measured the length of the missing shroud lines and that it was about the equivalent of two shroud lines (maybe three). Each shroud line on the reserve from the riser to the skirt of the canopy is about 15 feet long. So that would be about 30 (maybe 45) feet of shroud line used by Cooper. In reality, that isn't an excessive amount for just tying the money bag to the harness or his body. Don't forget the two lengths of rope to tie the reserve chute onto the back of the harness, if he followed instructions, which I am convinced he did. Lots and lots of gramma knots or whatever. Duane was supposedly a knot expert, but one would not have to be a knot expert to tie knots, wether or not the knots were not gramma knots. That's just nuts, not knots. ......Knoss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #32175 April 27, 2012 "Quade: Feel free to delete my account. Actually, that is a REQUEST." That is a most honorable request. I fully support your decision. You may wish to seek professional help, perhaps BlueBird, to cure you of your Coopermonia. Prednezone and Valium may be necessary to break your dependance on the Forum. Don't call me in the morning. In your memory, I will personally erect a plastic monument to you and all future Cooper Crew Members who wish to fall on their tin swords. The skelletual "Thinker" is applicable for that as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 Next Page 1287 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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BobKnoss 0 #32152 April 26, 2012 You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. Since the "bomb" parts were left on the plane it is safe to assume it was a "fake". I think that is a relatively safe assumption. There are a ton of things one can extrapolate from the remnants of information, but you ALL refuse to check ANY of it. The BYU Medallion, the reported wind directions and a 15-35 mile location discrepancy, dead reckoning, Janet's sighting, McCoy's visit to Janet, The Co-Pilot's meeting with Ralph, Cooper's missing notes to the cockpit, the X parachute debacle, O'Hara's promise to keep a secret, missing radio transcripts, Scott's missing final statement, KC's written note to Lyle in his will, Tina's BlueBird zombie state of mind, my entire offering of information, the Walker timeline connection to the McCoy/O'Hara team, Goerge Tenent's admissions, un-interviewed known witnesses, lack of honest investigation by the FBI, constant misdirection by the Cooper Crew, obvious falsehoods ignored while major points are made of insignificant trivia, International records IGNORED, number one suspect protected from any discussion, the Cooper Vane, the Pilot's Union activities in 1967-8 IGNORED, leader covered up, McCoy's photographs from 1995 and later, and the list just goes on and on. Point is proven with beyond any reasonable question, guys. You REFUSE to approach any of the above topics, only discuss evidence that is planted or erroneous, and make only conclusions that support some alternative hoax. Unbelievable. Nixon incarnate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #32153 April 26, 2012 QuoteBruce Smith says in part: Quote'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. Blevins, This could indeed mean a lot of different things. But maybe the Mysterious Caller was mainly concerned with how opening the stairs would affect HIM. And remember that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs opened and that there were only two people in the cabin at that time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32154 April 26, 2012 "There was another hijacker just before Cooper who used a pistol. Two weeks before Cooper’s hijacking, a passenger named Paul Cini brandished a handgun aboard an Air Canada flight over Montana. According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute. This could be your caller. He was NOT associated with Norjak, and he was not too bright." let's read the real version Two weeks before Cooper’s hijacking, a passenger named Paul Cini brandished a handgun aboard an Air Canada flight over Montana. He extorted money and a parachute, just like Cooper, but he was rushed and subdued by the jet’s crew when he put down the gun to don the parachute. The FBI’s Himmelsbach has said he believes Cooper borrowed his basic plan from Cini and the detail of a bomb in his briefcase from the plot of “Airport,” the disaster flick released six months before the Cooper hijacking. you are mixing two different hijackings, A quick-thinking stewardess slipped three Valiums into Tripp's drink, and the plane never left the ground. During the ten hour standoff, Tripp lowered his demands, and released all 52 of the passengers, settling for three cheeseburgers and a demand to be driven from the airport in a rental car by the two pilots left with him. (July 11, 1980) "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #32155 April 26, 2012 you are mixing two different hijackings, A quick-thinking stewardess slipped three Valiums into Tripp's drink, and the plane never left the ground. During the ten hour standoff, Tripp lowered his demands, and released all 52 of the passengers, settling for three cheeseburgers and a demand to be driven from the airport in a rental car by the two pilots left with him. (July 11, 1980) Yes. That sounds accurate. He traded the gun for three cheesburgers. I thought it was just one. Can't believe anything written about hyjackers nowadays, it's all lies! That could be your caller. Or, it could have been Mr. Ed. Yah, that's it! Makes perfect sense. Explains the four canopies and the olive green complexion. Horseface, hisself! Blevins would certify that one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32156 April 26, 2012 "According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute" "I thought it was just one" ("I", being the word that sticks out) can we finally come to terms that McCoy is in your head? you originally said McCoy told you. "Can't believe anything written about hyjackers nowadays" this would include yourself, you do realize this, correct?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32157 April 26, 2012 QuoteBruce Smith says in part: Quote'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. The individual could also have had very little Pressurized Air frame Experience, and wanted to make sure no one would be "sucked out". Kind of makes any "trained" and airline 'experienced" suspects, well suspect. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32158 April 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteBruce Smith says in part: Quote'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. The individual could also have had very little Pressurized Air frame Experience, and wanted to make sure no one would be "sucked out". Kind of makes any "trained" and airline 'experienced" suspects, well suspect. Matt when was the call made?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #32159 April 26, 2012 I think Bruce will be the one who will have the answer eventually. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #32160 April 26, 2012 Quote"According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute" "I thought it was just one" ("I", being the word that sticks out) can we finally come to terms that McCoy is in your head? you originally said McCoy told you. "Can't believe anything written about hyjackers nowadays" this would include yourself, you do realize this, correct? You betcha, Masked Man. Going through my pictures of the episode this morning I see development dates on all my slides. July 1967 for our belated spring honeymoon to Grand Canyon and a visit to Denny N. and his wife. Pictures of my new 67 VW, all the period stuff. My pictures arrived right after we returned. When the SS records get here I expect it to be even one year earlier than I thought. As I said, this was not an overnight thing, it took years to evolve, but now I've got better record of when things happened. Right after Duane jumped, we moved to Haapala's company. Amazing what one can learn from a couple documented dates, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #32161 April 26, 2012 Quote"According to McCoy, they talked him into trading a sandwich for the gun as he put on his parachute" "I thought it was just one" ("I", being the word that sticks out) can we finally come to terms that McCoy is in your head? you originally said McCoy told you. Yup! McCoy said. I believe McCoy. McCoy said, "sandwich" or "sandwiches", not three cheeseburgers. I believe there was at least one sandwich, which may have been a cheeseburger or more. I think the stories correlate sufficiently well for recounting irrelevant history from 1971. I'll take another two points. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32162 April 26, 2012 thought and believe are two different words. you slipped up period, you said "I thought it was just one" meaning you! you didn't say you disagreed with McCoy, stop using the quick damage control button! the correct response would have been, I'll inform McCoy of his mistake! no more twisters!"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #32163 April 26, 2012 Quotethought and believe are two different words. you slipped up period, you said "I thought it was just one" meaning you! you didn't say you disagreed with McCoy, stop using the quick damage control button! the correct response would have been, I'll inform McCoy of his mistake! no more twisters! I don't communicate regularly with Richard. He was very polite during our last telephone exchange, but I suspect he'd like to be left out of this. He stirred the pot, but it is not his kitchen. He was serving as an immigration advisor/advocate, which is typical for this generous and helping man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #32164 April 26, 2012 "certification" means nothing. If you want a document that has any legal clout prepare it as a sworn affidavit or declaration and get your signature notarized. Even a factually false affidavit or declaration about McCoy being alive etc wont expose BK to any realistic chance of a perjury charge. Nobody cares, it's just noise. It's like an inventors affidavit that he has made a working perpetual motion machine that can perform work. It's false, but so what? Maybe the inventor affiant truly believes his claims. Maybe Bob believes he saw Duane Weber training as a parachutist. Sigh... Can we disengage a bit with BK and get back to some serious Cooper dialogue? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #32165 April 26, 2012 Quote Quote Bruce Smith says in part: Quote 'One interesting note to come forth so far is from a brother who remembers the grandfather recounting how the Mysterious Caller was very concerned about impacts on the passengers when the aft stairs were opened in flight...' This could mean a lot of different things, but what it tells me is that the caller wasn't a psycho or a garden-variety nut. Maybe he was concerned about actually hurting someone by attempting to open the door. You could extrapolate that to mean he wanted the money...but not necessarily to kill people or injure them in order to get it. According to Ralph Himmelsbach, he thinks the bomb was a fake, too. Blevins, This could indeed mean a lot of different things. But maybe the Mysterious Caller was mainly concerned with how opening the stairs would affect HIM. And remember that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs opened and that there were only two people in the cabin at that time. .... well, its obvious, that can only be Geestman! Maybe Blevins will claim Geestman was fired/booted off some Citizen Sleuth Team Thingy, tooey? Geestman needs to get his emotions under control? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #32166 April 26, 2012 Quote"certification" means nothing. If you want a document that has any legal clout prepare it as a sworn affidavit or declaration and get your signature notarized. Even a factually false affidavit or declaration about McCoy being alive etc wont expose BK to any realistic chance of a perjury charge. Nobody cares, it's just noise. It's like an inventors affidavit that he has made a working perpetual motion machine that can perform work. It's false, but so what? Maybe the inventor affiant truly believes his claims. Maybe Bob believes he saw Duane Weber training as a parachutist. Sigh... Can we disengage a bit with BK and get back to some serious Cooper dialogue? 377 How about Blevin's LIBEL of me!? Something you have some personal knowledge of and yet sit idly by allowing it to happen - pretty self serving? It never ceases to amaze me here how some things just skate by, if your concern really is "get back to some serious Cooper dialogue?" ? The bias is apparent. Wasn't it counsel who said: : "Its all good"! How about some equity for the other side, Judge? Credibility? Truth? Counsel has facts he is not sharing! RobertMBlevins United States Jumps License In sport : : Apr 26, 2012, 12:38 AM Post #33939 of 33955 (144 views) Shortcut Registered: Aug 1, 2010 Posts: 1869 Re: [georger] Aft Stairs and the Boeing test program [In reply to] Can't Post Georger: I'm beginning to understand WHY you got booted off the Citizens' Sleuth team... Gotta get control of those emotions. ?????????????????????????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #32167 April 26, 2012 Quote Georger: I'm beginning to understand WHY you got booted off the Citizens' Sleuth team... Gotta get control of those emotions. Who told you this, Blevins? What's the basis for your libel against me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #32168 April 26, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Georger: I'm beginning to understand WHY you got booted off the Citizens' Sleuth team... Gotta get control of those emotions. Who told you this, Blevins? What's the basis for your libel against me? A reliable source. You should know where to go to ask about it. Let me ask you this: Did you reveal information that they didn't want you to? Besides, after the dozens of insults you have posted about me, you have a lot of nerve. You asked for it, now stop whining. I just had a nice conversation with Tom Kaye who says, quote: "What's he talking about - you weret kicked off the team!". So Mr. Blevins, once again. you either are making this up or your source doesnt know what they are talking about. Who is your socalled "reliable source"? You shouldnt be posting information you have no personal knowledge or verification of, in any event. And to quote someone else close to this matter, quote: "Why doesn't Quade kick Blevins off?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32170 April 27, 2012 has anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #32171 April 27, 2012 Quotehas anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet? I think there was a post on this subject within the past month of so. And I believe it said that Tom Kaye measured the length of the missing shroud lines and that it was about the equivalent of two shroud lines (maybe three). Each shroud line on the reserve from the riser to the skirt of the canopy is about 15 feet long. So that would be about 30 (maybe 45) feet of shroud line used by Cooper. In reality, that isn't an excessive amount for just tying the money bag to the harness or his body. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #32172 April 27, 2012 Quotehas anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet? See the page on Toms site where Carol measured the lines - its very detailed - she did a spectacular job with that. I forget the numbers, Its near the end at Tom's site; am sure you will find it. .... G. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #32173 April 27, 2012 Five cords on the pink parachute had cut lines: Line #7 had 186 ¾ inches of cord removed Line #11 had 169 ¾ inches of cord removed Line #12 had 169 inches of cord removed Line #15 had 213 inches of cord removed Line #22 had 217 ¼ inches of cord removed The length of an uncut cord (including the double-sewn cord used to tie into the cross-connector, the bundle of cords located between the butterfly snap-hook rings in the reserve container) is 218 inches (or 18.2 feet). Exactly how much suspension line is currently missing from the pink parachute? 955 ¾ inches (or 79.6 feet). Exactly how much suspension line did D.B. Cooper use to wrap the bundle of money to his waist? If the investigative search of the plane was conducted a mere 24 minutes after the plane touched down in Reno, NV and the number of cut cords recorded by the search team at that time was two, it suggests that Cooper removed two shroud lines (suspension lines) from the pink parachute. Logically, it seems as though the hijacker would grab two cords at the same time and make only one cut, rather than choosing lines individually and cutting them separately. Lines #11 and #12 seem the most plausible two, being a mere ¼ inch difference in length and located next to each other on the canopy. If D.B. Cooper took these two lines, he took a total of 338 ¾ inches (28.2 feet) of cord with him. If he doubled-up the cords for extra security during the jump, he used 169 ¾ inches (or 14.1 feet) of cord. Two cords vs. Three cords Whether two cords or three cords were cut remains a debate. Tina Mucklow asked the hijacker during the flight to cut some of the chute cord for her to possibly use as a safety line when the aft stairs were lowered, so as to not be sucked out of the plane [2]. Mucklow stated that Cooper informed her that she didn't need a cord. Was an additional cord cut from the chute at the time for Mucklow, but never used?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #32174 April 27, 2012 QuoteQuotehas anyone discussed the amount of rope taken from the reserve chute? I know it was 79.6 feet, but has anyone really wondered or tried to figure out where it all went, I know a handle was believed to be made and he probably tied it to his chest and had a lead for ground detection, but 80 feet? I think there was a post on this subject within the past month of so. And I believe it said that Tom Kaye measured the length of the missing shroud lines and that it was about the equivalent of two shroud lines (maybe three). Each shroud line on the reserve from the riser to the skirt of the canopy is about 15 feet long. So that would be about 30 (maybe 45) feet of shroud line used by Cooper. In reality, that isn't an excessive amount for just tying the money bag to the harness or his body. Don't forget the two lengths of rope to tie the reserve chute onto the back of the harness, if he followed instructions, which I am convinced he did. Lots and lots of gramma knots or whatever. Duane was supposedly a knot expert, but one would not have to be a knot expert to tie knots, wether or not the knots were not gramma knots. That's just nuts, not knots. ......Knoss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #32175 April 27, 2012 "Quade: Feel free to delete my account. Actually, that is a REQUEST." That is a most honorable request. I fully support your decision. You may wish to seek professional help, perhaps BlueBird, to cure you of your Coopermonia. Prednezone and Valium may be necessary to break your dependance on the Forum. Don't call me in the morning. In your memory, I will personally erect a plastic monument to you and all future Cooper Crew Members who wish to fall on their tin swords. The skelletual "Thinker" is applicable for that as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
