DB Cooper

[matthewcline 0]

Interesting angle. If he is the same guy it kind of leans back to a SOG type guy. And leads us away from a stuck stateside kind of suspect.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[georger 244]

Sorry Georger, but your Fact about Tom Kayne is not in agreement with what he told me in person. He said that his latest conclusion (not reported anywhere else) about the Titanium was it was from the match heads that DB had been using. Was Tom just feeding me BS or are you not up to date on his latest thinking about the findings on the tie? Maybe Tom is like Cossey and likes to tell untrue things as facts. Who knows? However, you can believe me that what I say is to the best of my knowledge of what I know.

Bob Sailshaw

[georger 244]

Quote

what exactly would the purpose of Titanium be in matches?

Pure metallic Ti is not in matches. Its' Titanium
dioxide. TiO2. Is in the atmospheres of low temp
stars etc. Same stuff used in pigments. Easily
converts into a gas and has other attractive
properties as a binder etc. My guess is the two
atoms of oxygen (O2) would be a handy thing to
have around when striking and lighting a match ?
Low ignition temp for one thing -

But, this is a beautiful example of how the public
can get confused when facts are lacking.

What I want t know: Is there anything Mr Cooper
said, even a tangential reference about, metals or
machine shop, making things, etc etc etc ?

Peterson is looking better these days! (Im just
kidding)

And BIG THANKS to Tom for coming here again to
help straighten things out.

[BruceSmith 3]

didn't Peterson retract the statement of being Cooper at one point?

[georger 244]

Quote

didn't Peterson retract the statement of being Cooper at one point?

Quote

As far as I know, Sheridan Peterson has never admitted to being DB Cooper. However, he has written extensively about his qualificatiosn to be the skyjacker and how the FBI has investigated him twice in the case. Surprisingly, it is from these writings that I have learned most of what I know about Sheridan, along with copious amounts of assistence from Snowmman, who has retrieved most of the Peterson writing on Cooper via the Internet.

Further, Mr. Peterson has steadfastly refused to meet with me to discuss these issues, and we have had an uneven email correspondence over the past three years. Currently, he is unresponsive to my entreaties despite all of my efforts to be the charming lad my mother knows me to be.

Is Gray looking at Peety?

BTW: Gray was allowed access to suspect files at
Seattle, which no one else was - that is my
understanding.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

has anyone discussed this angle? this was in the FBI files.

Quote

Whoa - a Cooper-look-alike jacking a plane in Australia? With FBI follow-up. Very cool.

I've never heard of this. We need to follow up. Thanks Mr. Shutter!

• Quote

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

has anyone discussed this angle? this was in the FBI files.

Quote

Whoa - a Cooper-look-alike jacking a plane in Australia? With FBI follow-up. Very cool.

I've never heard of this. We need to follow up. Thanks Mr. Shutter!

All things start with Donna at the bar. "He went that-
a-way!"

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Was Tom just feeding me BS or are you not up to date on his latest thinking about the findings on the tie? Maybe Tom is like Cossey and likes to tell untrue things as facts. Who knows? However, you can believe me that what I say is to the best of my knowledge of what I know.

Bob Sailshaw

Sailshaw, How many hours have you spent looking at Titanium under a microscope? Do electrical engineers use microscopes? For that matter, in view of our previous exchange of posts, do you now understand how cloud heights are measured?

[sailshaw 0]

Georger: You say "Is Gray looking at Peety?

BTW: Gray was allowed access to suspect files at
Seattle, which no one else was - that is my
understanding."

Georger: When I talked with Gray (at his book signing here in Seattle) he had never heard of Sheridan or saw anything about him in the FBI files he saw. That would indicate that Gray did not have full access to all the FBI files. There were two female FBI agents that visited Sheridan and took DNA samples from him. Gray was unaware of that too.

How about that. Gray was running with not a lot of info and most of it was wrong. He writes well but he needs the straight info and not Blevins BS.

Bob Sailshaw

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Soooo refreshing to see a discussion of Norjack facts rather than personal squabbles and wild conspiracy theories.

377

SHHHHHH you know how that goes....

[mrshutter45 21]

Quote

Interesting angle. If he is the same guy it kind of leans back to a SOG type guy. And leads us away from a stuck stateside kind of suspect.

Matt

After reading that file, one must wonder why Cooper asked for the money they way he did!

I found the article and it was dated May 26th not May 28th as the FBI file says! why am I not shocked!

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

Made a hoax bomb threat involving a Qantas aircraft, netting a $500,000 ransom. "Mr Brown" aka Peter Pasquale Macari was sitting in a hotel room one night watching a movie called, 'Doomsday Flight' when the cogs began turning in his head. It was almost like an aircraft version of the movie 'speed' (that was released many years later) ... If the plane flies under a certain altitude, it would blow up. With his brain still ticking over, the plan was formulated. Qantas flight 755 became the target and the Commonwealth Police in Sydney received a call from "Mr Brown" demanding a $500,000 ransom for information on the bomb's location or the plane would be blown up. If the plane dropped below 6,500 metres the bomb would detonate automatically. To prove it wasn't a hoax, he had left another bomb inside a Sydney airport terminal and gave police the location of it. The bomb was found to be active and equipped with a altitude activator. "Mr Brown" clearly meant business. The ransom was delivered as the Qantas flight kept circling Sydney Airport unable to descend due to the altitude activator and rapidly running out of fuel. As soon as "Mr Brown" had the ransom money another call was made to the police stating, "You can relax, there is no bomb aboard the plane ... You can land her safely". A massive manhunt followed and Macari was soon captured because an accomplice 'dobbed him in' (Aussie slang for snitching). A fair proportion of the money was spent, $138 000 was recovered, and a cool quarter of a million remained unaccounted for. Macari copped 15 years in jail for his crime as "Mr Brown".

http://australiancrimes.com/crimes/doomsdayflightbombhoax.html

link has a pic of Peter Macari, looks like a dead end

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 244]

Quote

Made a hoax bomb threat involving a Qantas aircraft, netting a $500,000 ransom. "Mr Brown" aka Peter Pasquale Macari was sitting in a hotel room one night watching a movie called, 'Doomsday Flight' when the cogs began turning in his head. It was almost like an aircraft version of the movie 'speed' (that was released many years later) ... If the plane flies under a certain altitude, it would blow up. With his brain still ticking over, the plan was formulated. Qantas flight 755 became the target and the Commonwealth Police in Sydney received a call from "Mr Brown" demanding a $500,000 ransom for information on the bomb's location or the plane would be blown up. If the plane dropped below 6,500 metres the bomb would detonate automatically. To prove it wasn't a hoax, he had left another bomb inside a Sydney airport terminal and gave police the location of it. The bomb was found to be active and equipped with a altitude activator. "Mr Brown" clearly meant business. The ransom was delivered as the Qantas flight kept circling Sydney Airport unable to descend due to the altitude activator and rapidly running out of fuel. As soon as "Mr Brown" had the ransom money another call was made to the police stating, "You can relax, there is no bomb aboard the plane ... You can land her safely". A massive manhunt followed and Macari was soon captured because an accomplice 'dobbed him in' (Aussie slang for snitching). A fair proportion of the money was spent, $138 000 was recovered, and a cool quarter of a million remained unaccounted for. Macari copped 15 years in jail for his crime as "Mr Brown".

http://australiancrimes.com/crimes/doomsdayflightbombhoax.html

link has a pic of Peter Macari, looks like a dead end

attached -

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Quote

Made a hoax bomb threat involving a Qantas aircraft, netting a $500,000 ransom. "Mr Brown" aka Peter Pasquale Macari was sitting in a hotel room one night watching a movie called, 'Doomsday Flight' when the cogs began turning in his head. It was almost like an aircraft version of the movie 'speed' (that was released many years later) ... If the plane flies under a certain altitude, it would blow up. With his brain still ticking over, the plan was formulated. Qantas flight 755 became the target and the Commonwealth Police in Sydney received a call from "Mr Brown" demanding a $500,000 ransom for information on the bomb's location or the plane would be blown up. If the plane dropped below 6,500 metres the bomb would detonate automatically. To prove it wasn't a hoax, he had left another bomb inside a Sydney airport terminal and gave police the location of it. The bomb was found to be active and equipped with a altitude activator. "Mr Brown" clearly meant business. The ransom was delivered as the Qantas flight kept circling Sydney Airport unable to descend due to the altitude activator and rapidly running out of fuel. As soon as "Mr Brown" had the ransom money another call was made to the police stating, "You can relax, there is no bomb aboard the plane ... You can land her safely". A massive manhunt followed and Macari was soon captured because an accomplice 'dobbed him in' (Aussie slang for snitching). A fair proportion of the money was spent, $138 000 was recovered, and a cool quarter of a million remained unaccounted for. Macari copped 15 years in jail for his crime as "Mr Brown".

http://australiancrimes.com/crimes/doomsdayflightbombhoax.html

link has a pic of Peter Macari, looks like a dead end

attached -

There was an American TV movie, probably sometime in the 1970s, on the same subject. I believed it starred Van Johnson. In the TV movie, the airliner managed to get to a high elevation airport that was above the altitude set for the bomb to explode.

[georger 244]

There was an American TV movie, probably sometime in the 1970s, on the same subject. I believed it starred Van Johnson. In the TV movie, the airliner managed to get to a high elevation airport that was above the altitude set for the bomb to explode.

[sailshaw 0]

Robert99: You say " Sailshaw, How many hours have you spent looking at Titanium under a microscope? Do electrical engineers use microscopes? For that matter, in view of our previous exchange of posts, do you now understand how cloud heights are measured? "

To answer your questions (or attacks), Engineers do use microscopes but prefer to have Technicians use such equipment so the Engineers can devote their time to engineering. Cloud heights question leads me to believe I must have hurt your feelings. Sorry, there is no room on this web site for attacks or you fall into the same Bob Knoss and Bob Blevins band by Quade. Hope you are not a Technician and offended by my statement. Clouds having glow from city lights is mentioned in past posts by several others. I have been reading all the past posts and find we are lost in going over the same things in greater detail.

Bob Sailshaw

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Robert99: You say " Sailshaw, How many hours have you spent looking at Titanium under a microscope? Do electrical engineers use microscopes? For that matter, in view of our previous exchange of posts, do you now understand how cloud heights are measured? "

To answer your questions (or attacks), Engineers do use microscopes but prefer to have Technicians use such equipment so the Engineers can devote their time to engineering. Cloud heights question leads me to believe I must have hurt your feelings. Sorry, there is no room on this web site for attacks or you fall into the same Bob Knoss and Bob Blevins band by Quade. Hope you are not a Technician and offended by my statement. Clouds having glow from city lights is mentioned in past posts by several others. I have been reading all the past posts and find we are lost in going over the same things in greater detail.

Bob Sailshaw

Sailshaw, I hope I didn't hurt your own feelings by pointing out that Tom Kaye, you may recall that he did the research on the Titanium, has probably got much more experience in such matters than yourself.

Also, I hope I don't hurt your feelings by pointing out that as an aeronautical engineer and general aviation pilot with some parachuting experience, I probably have more aeronautical type experience than yourself. As I understand your previous statements, you are an electrical engineer whose primary experience has been in electrical systems and structural matters.

In addition, I have looked down at night time through clouds at quite a few areas of light glow, coming from various cities, over the last 50+ years. Nevertheless, the flight crew of the hijacked airliner said that the overcast and several layers of clouds below them that night were so thick that they could not see the light glow from the Portland and Vancouver areas.

Finally, I really am disappointed that you don't/didn't know how clouds heights are measured. I believe that how the cloud heights are measured is actually common knowledge and doesn't require any aeronautical experience or knowledge.

[mrshutter45 21]

I don't think it's so much of going over the samething as it is understanding the answer, yes you can see a glow thru some clouds while above them and then you can have heavy cloud coverage that can block any light or glow coming thru them, this seems to be the case with 305.

ever notice some times during a lightning storm you can see the flash thru some of the clouds, but not all of them?

I tend to believe the Pilots when they said they could not see anything below, no charts or broadcast will change this. who's word will be better?

back in 71 I can't see the same amount of lights on at nite as much as today either,

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

Quote

didn't Peterson retract the statement of being Cooper at one point?

---------------------------------------------
Is Gray looking at Peety?

BTW: Gray was allowed access to suspect files at
Seattle, which no one else was - that is my
understanding.

GG called me in January, asking for The Eagle-Eyed One's address. I haven't heard anyting back.

As soon as I get some extra moolah I'll be heading back to Santa Rosa. I've got a lead on where Petey likes to dine. Maybe we can click chop sticks together and talk about the smell of American Foreign Policy in the morning....

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

didn't Peterson retract the statement of being Cooper at one point?

---------------------------------------------
Is Gray looking at Peety?

BTW: Gray was allowed access to suspect files at
Seattle, which no one else was - that is my
understanding.

GG called me in January, asking for The Eagle-Eyed One's address. I haven't heard anyting back.

As soon as I get some extra moolah I'll be heading back to Santa Rosa. I've got a lead on where Petey likes to dine. Maybe we can click chop sticks together and talk about the smell of American Foreign Policy in the morning....

Hey Bruce...I will be in Santa Rosa in a month..... and in and around the Bay area for about a week.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[sailshaw 0]

Robert99 This is a post from Georger:

"Rat said Cooper bailed somewhere between 5-10
minutes after their last contact woith him at 8:05,
and he could see the nothern suburbs of Portland
coming up, and they had not crossed the Columbia yet".

There has been disagreement about what Rat's
vision was from his seat, and what Cooper could
have seen from his seat or standing on the stairs.

The conditions were 3/4 moon, perhaps cloud deck
at 5000ft, windy-rainy, and 305 was flying somewhere along or variably east of V23 as per
the FBI flight map ...

Photo No.1 shows the view from Rataczak's seat.
His forwards vision is restricted, as Sluggo pointed out earlier. His side vision through his side window
is favorable, to his right side extending to approx
70 degrees to his front. His downward vision on his
right side extending forward is quite good, from
10,000 feet.

Photos no.2 & 3 further detail vision from the 727 cockpit.

Rataczack's statement implies Cooper bailed between 8:10 and 8:15. If you look at the FBI
flight path map, photo 3A, you can see that up
to 20:15 Rataczack has a good right window view
to the ground of Portland-Vancouver coming up,
because 305 has not made its turn yet beginning
at 20:15. After 20:15 Rat's view ahead is more
limited but not fully restricted. So, Rataczack's
statement is consistent with the flight path map in
terms of the angle of the plane and Rat's ability view PDX-VCR approaching out his right side window.

In the back, Cooper would have had a more restricted forward view due to his smaller window
but his view toward Portland until 20:15 is very
much like that Rataczack has, because of the angle of the plane. Cooper would have seen the lights
of PDX-VCR coming up, if the clouds permitted this.

Photos 4-6 show the back stairs extended. Once
again given the angle of the plane to 20:15, if
Cooper is standing on the stairs during this period
(20-10-20:15) all Cooper has todo is look to his
left and cloud cover permitting he can see the lights
of Vancouver-Portland in the distance coming up.
Cooper bails during this period, according to Rat.

If 305 is east off V23 it is basically the same scenario with respect to Rataczack's rightside view
toward PDX-VCR, and the same also for Cooper if
he knew where he was, or cared.

There is the issue of cloud cover. One would think
even with cloud cover, VCR and PDX would have
appeared as 'light glow' through the clouds, against a backdrop of black night, with a 3/4 moon somewhere above.

I dont see that there is any restriction to Rataczack's right side vision as it conflicts with his statement.
Rather I see the facts of 727 rightside vision from the copilot's seat as supporting Rat's statement.

The only issues are where and when. But, the
angle of the plane between BTG and the 20:15
are favorable for Rataczack seeing VCR-PDS off
his right side. Likewise for Cooper seeing these
lights if he looked. "

So, I am not the only one that thinks DB used the "glow in the clouds" or lights of Vancouver/Portland to time his jump. DB had a better view by having no windshield/rain drops (blown off somewhat by the airflow) to look through that the pilots had. He also had his watch to help locate when he was close to Vancouver/Portland.

Therefore Robert99, read it and weep! You are wrong again, just get over it.

Bob Sailshaw

[georger 244]

Quote

Robert99 This is a post from Georger:

"Rat said Cooper bailed somewhere between 5-10
minutes after their last contact woith him at 8:05,
and he could see the nothern suburbs of Portland
coming up, and they had not crossed the Columbia yet".

There has been disagreement about what Rat's
vision was from his seat, and what Cooper could
have seen from his seat or standing on the stairs.

The conditions were 3/4 moon, perhaps cloud deck
at 5000ft, windy-rainy, and 305 was flying somewhere along or variably east of V23 as per
the FBI flight map ...

Photo No.1 shows the view from Rataczak's seat.
His forwards vision is restricted, as Sluggo pointed out earlier. His side vision through his side window
is favorable, to his right side extending to approx
70 degrees to his front. His downward vision on his
right side extending forward is quite good, from
10,000 feet.

Photos no.2 & 3 further detail vision from the 727 cockpit.

Rataczack's statement implies Cooper bailed between 8:10 and 8:15. If you look at the FBI
flight path map, photo 3A, you can see that up
to 20:15 Rataczack has a good right window view
to the ground of Portland-Vancouver coming up,
because 305 has not made its turn yet beginning
at 20:15. After 20:15 Rat's view ahead is more
limited but not fully restricted. So, Rataczack's
statement is consistent with the flight path map in
terms of the angle of the plane and Rat's ability view PDX-VCR approaching out his right side window.

In the back, Cooper would have had a more restricted forward view due to his smaller window
but his view toward Portland until 20:15 is very
much like that Rataczack has, because of the angle of the plane. Cooper would have seen the lights
of PDX-VCR coming up, if the clouds permitted this.

Photos 4-6 show the back stairs extended. Once
again given the angle of the plane to 20:15, if
Cooper is standing on the stairs during this period
(20-10-20:15) all Cooper has todo is look to his
left and cloud cover permitting he can see the lights
of Vancouver-Portland in the distance coming up.
Cooper bails during this period, according to Rat.

If 305 is east off V23 it is basically the same scenario with respect to Rataczack's rightside view
toward PDX-VCR, and the same also for Cooper if
he knew where he was, or cared.

There is the issue of cloud cover. One would think
even with cloud cover, VCR and PDX would have
appeared as 'light glow' through the clouds, against a backdrop of black night, with a 3/4 moon somewhere above.

I dont see that there is any restriction to Rataczack's right side vision as it conflicts with his statement.
Rather I see the facts of 727 rightside vision from the copilot's seat as supporting Rat's statement.

The only issues are where and when. But, the
angle of the plane between BTG and the 20:15
are favorable for Rataczack seeing VCR-PDS off
his right side. Likewise for Cooper seeing these
lights if he looked. "

So, I am not the only one that thinks DB used the "glow in the clouds" or lights of Vancouver/Portland to time his jump. DB had a better view by having no windshield/rain drops (blown off somewhat by the airflow) to look through that the pilots had. He also had his watch to help locate when he was close to Vancouver/Portland.

Therefore Robert99, read it and weep! You are wrong again, just get over it.

Bob Sailshaw

First, I dont see that anyone must weep. More to
simply trying to figure this out as per evidence given
by people.

My statement you quote above is a direct quote
by Larry Carry after Carr reviewed Rat's sworn
testimony in the FBI files - then Carr posted the
statement here. Carr's quote is freely available in a
back search here at Dropzone. So, its not something
I dreamed up.

Secondly, Robt99 keeps quoting the "flight crew" as
saying, quote: " the flight crew of the hijacked
airliner said that the overcast and several layers of
clouds below them that night were so thick that they
could not see the light glow from the Portland and
Vancouver areas." I have no idea where Robt99 got
this statement on behalf of the whole "flight crew".
I would sure like to know what Robt99's source for
this is. Maybe H's book? I have a feeling Robt99
has a reference in mind, because I know yhe would
not make something like this up.

Thirdly, I have talked to a number of people
including two retired observatory directors who say
they recall sky conditions the evening of 11-24-71,
in Portland and at Vancouver. Most everyone
reported 'broken clouds' from time to time, and
when asked 'could Cooper have seen the sky glow
from Portland-Vancouver that night' all responded
'yes' or 'I think so'.

Lastly, I have said this before, I will say it again: I
find it strange nobody made a formal report of sky
conditions at PDX-VCR that night, as seen over
those cities. Pilots. The helo pilots. One reason for
the lack of reports on this issue involving VCR-PDX
specifically, may be nobody thought Cooper had
bailed there - so no reason for a sky condition
report.

My personal stance on this matter is, its undecided
pending further evidence of a specific nature. And
I know just as quickly as I write this Robt99 may
say: 'The aviation wx report for PDX-VCR that
evening is the best evidence and conclusive'. ???

I agree with you Sail. I dont think this issue is
settled fact. And Carr's report of Rat's testimony
weighes heavily in my mind, that this is undecided.

Im very torn about this, frankly, because I also take
Robt99 seriously.

And why after all this time the matter is still
undecided, is a mystery all of its own!

[georger 244]

Someone asks the group this question:

Quote:

you might float this question out there............
the JC Penney's tie left behind looked a lot like a
military issue tie from that era. Can you ask around
and see if the military (probably Army) had any
contracts with JC Penny's to furnish dark ties with
their dress uniforms, and maybe that tie Cooper
used is one them?

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Someone asks the group this question:

Quote:

you might float this question out there............
the JC Penney's tie left behind looked a lot like a
military issue tie from that era. Can you ask around
and see if the military (probably Army) had any
contracts with JC Penny's to furnish dark ties with
their dress uniforms, and maybe that tie Cooper
used is one them?

The tie left behind is a "clip on" tie correct? Issue ties are actually around the neck fore in hand tied neck ties. So, maybe worn by service member but not issued, in my 21 years they never issued clip on ties. I did wear one for the Ball if it was off post, you only need one drunk to drag you by the tie to learn that lesson.

Pg 99 is the era the question asks about.

http://www.history.army.mil/html/museums/uniforms/survey_uwa.pdf

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

Interesting find here (see photo) not sure of the year

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI