DB Cooper

[georger 247]

I will reply to Mr Nuke to come back to central facts
and a synopsis we could make, I feel.

Central facts:

[Sluggo] “In actuality they were a 50º Left-Turn at Toledo and a 48º Right-Turn at the 20:15 location on the map (which actually occurred at 20:14 because of
the lost minute). That means he jumped at 20:14 Right over Scholl Airport (historical) which was an FAA ID’ed DZ.

I think the Orchards-Hokinson area would have been
a much more productive search area than Merwin Dam (in 1972). “

Ckret then reminded everyone as follows:

“Ratazcak said he could see the northern suburbs of Portland when this (the bump) occurred. He also said
it occurred 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05 PM.”

Thus:
We have two separate events: oscillations and bump. The bump occurs Just AFTER Cooper has bailed, some time between 8:10-8:15 on the flight map. “Rataczak said he could see the northern suburbs of Portland
when (the bump) occurred.” But, Ratacazak also said: ‘we had NOT crossed the Columbia River yet’. This places the DZ somewhere between a mile to maybe 5
miles north of the Columbia and Portland, which at
the greater extent (5 miles) agrees with Sluggo's
analysis. ??

We then moved to a consideration of how money
could get to Tina Bar, say from Orchards-Scotton.
There is no direct water route. I then showed there
is a direct rail link, however, which passes directly
from Scotton area to directly behind Tina Bar. This

Ckret is convinced the condition of the money dictates a water route. I disagree with that analysis and favour land storage (with wet periods) were the money was pressed and compacted by an overlay of soil, with mainly edge rotting.

In spite of the above I went ahead to prove a water
route to Tina Bar via the Columbia which depends on
the Willamette confluence taking debris into the area
of Vancouver Lake all the way up to Tina Bar by an
inland route. That scenario will require a hydologist's
opinion.

Jo pointed out that locals and farmers "know their own
land" and no local person had ever noticed money at Tina Bar or anywhere else in the area over the years.

Lastly, a 2400-2600ft forward throw (based on 1000 feet per 100mph) has been suggested as applying to
the Cooper jump, subject to a 20 knot SE to NW wind
drift.

I think that inland water routes to Tina Bar are so problematic as to be unrealistic in this case. The only
direct route to Tina Bar from the projected DZ is a
rail line which literally goes straight behind Tina Bar
at a relatively close distance.

If inland water routes are not realistic (for many reasons) then we have the prospect of Cooper or someone delivering money to the Columbia or Tina
Bar, by some means other than water. If it was Cooper
then he survived the jump enough to travel. The money gets to Tina Bar by some reason!

If Rataczak and others could see the lights of Portland
Cooper could see them too! He knew where he was at
in general terms and bailed. He needs the cover of night and few people so he bails not at Portland but before it to get to the Columbia to steal a boat to
get back across the Columbia to Portland where perhaps he has a car? He loses money in the area of
Tina Bar or before it along the Columbia in the process
of looking for a boat to steal. Or maybe he has an
altercation with someone and loses the money to them and they travel up the river toward Tina Bar and
disappear?

George.

[snowmman 3]

georger:

reading thru your synopsis, it makes me think there's nothing that should make us care about the exact details of the money.

Those facts should give us a reasonable guess at a Cooper LZ. Then an inspection of that LZ allows us to guess at a probability of whether a dead Cooper wasn't found. If we then agree the probability says Cooper didn't die, isn't that all we need? Or a probability that he did die and just wasn't found?

Any details about how the money got to Tina Bar doesn't really help us in identifying Cooper, does it?

I think we were intent on this money thing, because it might help with the flight path or LZ prediction. But now in looking at the facts you outline, it doesn't seem like the money helps in either of those.

So why do we care about the money at Tina Bar? Are you thinking it might help fine tune a prediction on whether Cooper survived? I'm not sure it's needed for that?

[snowmman 3]

Quote

georger wrote:
get to the Columbia to steal a boat to
get back across the Columbia to Portland where perhaps he has a car? He loses money in the area of
Tina Bar or before it along the Columbia in the process
of looking for a boat to steal.

Georger: are you referencing the report of a boat theft in the area that night? I think you mentioned it before, but could you clarify why you highlighted boat here?

I've attached a recent picture of bicycles on the I5 bridge to Vancouver. So I'm assuming that Cooper could have just walked across the I5 bridge?
from http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/27/expect-temporary-detour-on-i-5-bridge/

(edit) attached a better picture of the current I5 bridge over the columbia. It's an old bridge. Confirmed photo b looking close in Google Earth. They were talking about a big replacement project for this bridge recently.

(edit) If cooper didn't want to be seen walking across the bridge, he would still have the visibility problem making it to wherever he parked his car beforehand? unless maybe he called someone. But then why not call from the Vancouver side? This boat theory seems unnecessarily complicated, in terms of plausability.

[snowmman 3]

Was trying to visualize what Cooper might have done on landing.

Gather up the canopy. Take the rig off. Now have to hide the canopy/rig. Maybe stash it somewhere. Unlikely to be be able to dig a hole.

Canopy was never found though. So maybe Cooper backtracked later on (day(s) later) and retrieved the stashed stuff.

If he's stashing the canopy, why not stash the money? High risk to walk around with money that night, matching the description of the hijacker. 21 lbs of money plus guy in a business suit? Sticks out.

So assume he stashed money plus chute that night.
Came back for it later. But not too much later. If he lives up in Seattle area, and is heading back, he's probably going to pick up the stuff the next day or so? Not going to leave it down by Portland and have to come back for it?

So I'm thinking, pick up once he gets a car.
But his stash wouldn't be by the Columbia. It'd be close to where he landed.

(edit) Where did Coop spend the night? Maybe just crashed in the bushes. Rather than skulk around at night. Walk out next morning. Hopefully not missing a shoe, though. Noticeable. Maybe call for pickup? But unlikely to have accomplice or ???

[snowmman 3]

A couple posts back, Jo invited me to "research her".
I thought that might be an interesting side project.

Jo, there are a lot of details about you and Duane that you don't highlight. Maybe you can answer some.

Ckret has confirmed Duane was doing crime up to 1976.
I suspect he was still doing crime after that, potentially during your marriage.

Also, as you point out, you're not stupid. So all your claims to "dumb blonde" syndrome are silly. I suspect you decided to look the other way on some things.

Duane was an older man. You were a younger woman, divorced, with kids? Duane took advantage of you. He was a user of people.

Can you clarify some things:
1) Duane's ?5? year marriage to the woman before you? When did that end? Why did Duane pay out money to her? Why didn't he just run and hide and assume a new identity, rather than pay her off?

2) Did your kids live with you and Duane during the early years of your marriage? I'm guessing at their ages, but they would seem to have been <18 at that point? or no?

3) You've mentioned your maiden name here before: Collins. Is that true?
So you were Josephine C. Collins? and Duane was John C. Collins. I'm sure he got a big kick out of that inside joke if so. Doesn't he sound like an ass? A number of your posts make him sound like a fun guy. Was he a fun guy or an ass? What did he do with himself in his spare time other than sing?

4) If you want to control the facts about the Duane and Jo show that you release, for whatever reasons, then I'll stop. But it makes your story less credible. A good story will hold up when all aspects of the story are revealed, not just cherry picked details.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

georger said:
I then showed there
is a direct rail link, however, which passes directly
from Scotton area to directly behind Tina Bar.

I guess, even though we don't have the geology report, which could be flawed, that we're agreeing the money arrived on Tina Bar after '74.

It's hard to imagine a railroad story that ties to money delivery in '74.

Unless you flesh it out, shouldn't you dump any rail story? Not sure how it's workable.

Also, when you mention soil burial, shouldn't you say "sand burial". Direct contact with real soil would lead to much more decomposition, right? (microbial). Or are you saying soil burial for < 8-1/2 years? Or are you saying burial in container?

[Mr.Nuke 0]

Quote

From reading the reports in the file the placard was found in this general area, I have not located the Sheriff's Office report on the matter so I don't have the exact location. Keep in mind the airstairs where released just a few minutes out of Seatac, so they would have been open about 20 degrees the whole flight.

Thanks Crket. The air stairs at 20 degrees shouldn't really matter much here. My point in raising the placard issue is that it is probably the best piece of evidence we have. The money is nice, but as the discussions here have indicated there is still a fair amount of uncertainty and multiple variables affecting how it may have arrived where it did. With the Placard you only have where Cooper let it go, and how and where it fell/landed.

We still aren't sure on the 1971 map. Where was the radar? How detailed was the information presented and the information saved? How/what information was used to make the map? At this point, I put a fair amount of trust in the map simply because it looks like a plausible hand flown flight path. Getting as precise location as possible for the placard would lend credence to the map.

[377 22]

Quote

sitting on the couch watching "Point Break" for the 300 time.

I just hit 300 Friday night. That PROVES the FBI has implanted sensors in my brain. I need thicker aluminum for my helmet. Foil does not work. I am nice to Ckret because I get shocked if even think disparaging thoughts about his employer.

It would be interesting to find out more about the shoe allegedly found by the Army searcher. It's a real long shot but if it were Cooper's shoe it would give you better exit info than the money or the placard. Gives a Cinderella aspect to the case.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I've been curious about the data for the '72 map (the predicted Lake Merwin DZ)

You would think it's based on the same data from the '71 map.

So I checked for consistency.

The '71 map has an x at the point where Lewis River (Lewis River Rd) crosses the flight path, just 1.5 miles W of Lake Merwin. The x is marked "2010"

This is approximately point D on the '72 map

Point D is halfway between the first two predicted drift lines.

But if Point D is really at 2010 on the flight path, and the old predicted jump point was 2011, then there is inconsistency between the '71 map and the '72 map...because Point D is between two predicted drift lines, but it's before the 2011 predicted jump time, according to the '71 map.

(Point D on '71 map is either 2010 or 2009 depending on whether you account for the missing 2004 tick)

Somehow this has to be resolved to be confident that any good data was used to produce either map.

We already know there was a 1 minute error early on (2004 was missing) on the '71 map. If so, that would mean point D is really 2009? That makes things even worse when correlating '71 map and '72 map

Either the '72 map had new information and the '71 map is wrong, or the '71 map is right and the '72 map was totally bogus and a waste of time.

(edit) Alternative theory: ACCWD (Any CIA Conspiracy Will Do)

(edit) The most likely explanation, since "computers" were involved and more people and it was later, and maybe key people didn't review it, is that the '72 map just used bad data somehow.

[Mr.Nuke 0]

Quote

If Rataczak and others could see the lights of Portland
Cooper could see them too! He knew where he was at
in general terms and bailed.

Not necessarily. Your statement seems to imply that Rataczak and Cooper had an equal view which they did not. Rataczak is sitting at the front of the plane with a near 180 degree view in front of him. Cooper is either looking out side windows, which gives you little indication of what is in front of you. Or he is standing at the backstairs giving no indication at all of what is in front of him.

But again to know where you are in "general terms" on a plane, if you know the route doesn't require seeing anything.

[snowmman 3]

I've been wondering why the apparent plan for a night jump was considered a bad idea.

The insane thing would have been to plan a day jump. Increases the odds of getting caught dramatically? Unless it's someplace way in the middle of nowhere with no possibility of chase planes.

Shouldn't we say "nite jump means smart", "day jump means stupid".

How did we get to nite jump = stupid?

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

If Rataczak and others could see the lights of Portland
Cooper could see them too! He knew where he was at
in general terms and bailed.

Not necessarily. Your statement seems to imply that Rataczak and Cooper had an equal view which they did not. Rataczak is sitting at the front of the plane with a near 180 degree view in front of him. Cooper is either looking out side windows, which gives you little indication of what is in front of you. Or he is standing at the backstairs giving no indication at all of what is in front of him.

But again to know where you are in "general terms" on a plane, if you know the route doesn't require seeing anything.

Agreed. If Cooper was standing on the stairs just after it
passed Lake Merwin, he'd probably see the lights on the Lake Merwin Dam right? So he'd have a general feel of a couple minutes since then.

Sluggo has talked about compasses and the BTG vortac turn. But just waiting a couple minutes since he saw Lake Merwin would be pretty accurate. I think Cooper had a watch since he dictated time boundaries (5:00) and complained about elapsed time (fuel truck)

The lights on Merwin Dam have been highlighted by some of the TV shows on youtube.

[snowmman 3]

An aerial view looking north at Scholl's Airport from
http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/WA/Airfields_WA_SW.html
I did not find this in Cooper's wallet in the van.

Picture is interesting because it gives a feel for the area in 1971.

from that url:
"From the 1971 WA Airport directory (courtesy of Chris Kennedy)...depicted Scholl's Airport as having a single 3,300' turf Runway 7/25....Several buildings or hangars were clustered around the west end of the runway, and a total of 7 light single-engine aircraft were visible on the field.

The manager was listed as Elvin Pluckett."

(edit) '69 Sectional included from that url

[Mr.Nuke 0]

Quote

Agreed. If Cooper was standing on the stairs just after it passed Lake Merwin, he'd probably see the lights on the Lake Merwin Dam right? So he'd have a general feel of a couple minutes since then.

It depends on the cloud cover. On a normal day/night the dam would've been visible from the back or one of the left side seats.

Quote

Sluggo has talked about compasses and the BTG vortac turn. But just waiting a couple minutes since he saw Lake Merwin would be pretty accurate.

If you are planning a specific drop zone than likely not and on a night where we know their was possible precipitation/cloud cover in places you are taking a huge risk on spotting a landmark.

After Sluggo made the compass comment I responded saying a compass isn't necessary. If V-23 was picked Deliberately the turn at Malay provides the perfect starting spot. A turn like that doesn't require a compass. Sluggo is thinking like a pilot there. For dead reckoning we like our compass, timing device, and sectional chart. Pilots like landmarks as well, lake the dam. Again though given the conditions, I wouldn't plan it as a primary mark. Given the possibility of bad weather, and the beauty that V-23 is for dead reckoning the dam would be a nice secondary confirmation point as to where you are, but I would be "timing" based on Malay and BTG.

Quote

I think Cooper had a watch since he dictated time boundaries (5:00) and complained about elapsed time (fuel truck)

I'll have to back over the transcripts... I will say that I would take a watch over a compass in this case.

[377 22]

Quote

I've been wondering why the apparent plan for a night jump was considered a bad idea.

The insane thing would have been to plan a day jump. Increases the odds of getting caught dramatically? Unless it's someplace way in the middle of nowhere with no possibility of chase planes.

Shouldn't we say "nite jump means smart", "day jump means stupid".

How did we get to nite jump = stupid?

Night jump was just less stupid than a day jump. Both were stupid. Very high risk of death, very high risk of caper being foiled before takeoff, very high risk of post-jump capture.

If Cooper survived, it was more luck than brains.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I was musing on 377's comment about stupid vs luck.
I think we all don't have a good feeling for stupid vs luck for crime.

Read this account of the trenchcoat guys. Biggest US bank take. $4,461,681. In Ckret's territory, and Seafirst bank, but before Ckret was there? (1997). The money weighed 355 lbs. wow.

http://www.incite-pictures.com/trenchcoat_article.html

How did they get caught? Wife bitching to the builder.
Note that paying in cash in paper bags was fine. Bitching wasn't fine. Also shows that our ideas of difficulty in "passing money" might be misinformed?

"They hired a local builder, Michael Senty, and with him designed a three-level, cedarlog home by the water. Penney paid Senty mostly in cash, in fifty and hundred dollar bills, wrapped in rubber bands and delivered in brown lunch bags. "I was led to believe that she inherited the money," Senty said.
....

By the spring of 1996, the Lake Superior home was almost complete. Penney hounded Senty about the final adjustments so relentlessly that, angered by her badgering, he placed an anonymous call to the Internal Revenue Service and reported that a woman named Myra Penney had paid for a home in Hovland entirely in cash."

IRS guy followed up on the anonymous tip and figured out the builder. Rest was history.

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

If Rataczak and others could see the lights of Portland
Cooper could see them too! He knew where he was at
in general terms and bailed.

Not necessarily. Your statement seems to imply that Rataczak and Cooper had an equal view which they did not. Rataczak is sitting at the front of the plane with a near 180 degree view in front of him. Cooper is either looking out side windows, which gives you little indication of what is in front of you. Or he is standing at the backstairs giving no indication at all of what is in front of him.

But again to know where you are in "general terms" on a plane, if you know the route doesn't require seeing anything.

REPLY> I knew some one would say this. All he has to do is look out the windows, the cabin is dark. Or out
the back of the aircraft at the direction of skyglow.
He knows Vancouver and Portland are coming up. He
knows the area.

[skyjack71 0]

I want to clairfy things about my trip to WA in Oct. I am not going there to present Proof,

I am going there to get answers to things regarding information I have accumulated and to verify things I told the FBI.

My questions about Duane have not been answered by the FBI so I have to go get the answers myself - I should have done this 12 yrs ago, but I was working and could not afford to do so on my own without jeopardizing my future.

Snowmman stated

Quote

Duane was an older man. You were a younger woman, divorced, with kids? Duane took advantage of you. He was a user of people.

Exactly what does my being divorced with kids have to do with anything? I will not deny that he may have used me - I have admitted that.


Snowmman stated:

Quote

1) Duane's ?5? year marriage to the woman before you? When did that end? Why did Duane pay out money to her? Why didn't he just run and hide and assume a new identity, rather than pay her off?

I won't touch that with a 10 ft pole and I will not set myself up for a lawsuit. I have stayed away from that part of his life with due cause.
I would only discuss that part of his life before a judge and under court order.


Snowmman stated:

Quote

2) Did your kids live with you and Duane during the early years of your marriage? I'm guessing at their ages, but they would seem to have been

What business is this of yours or anyone else? For your information my youngest daughter was with us and Duane thought the world of her. She saw the composites (the ones the FBI took so long to send me) and said "My God, he really was Cooper".

Prior to the arrival of those composites all I had to work with was a small postage size digitized black and white from a newpaper article and the Bing Crosby look alike..


Snowmman states:

Quote

3)
So you were Josephine C. Collins? and Duane was John C. Collins. I'm sure he got a big kick out of that inside joke if so. Doesn't he sound like an ass? A number of your posts make him sound like a fun guy. Was he a fun guy or an ass? What did he do with himself in his spare time other than sing?

I have already gone on record as having stated that I deep down think he may have married me because of my name. He had a winning personality.

Spare time - what is that? - we worked 7 days a wk and 10 hrs or more a day. He liked to sing and he liked working with his hands. He was a good husband and good father...and a very hard worker. Our spare time was use on other jobs to insure our future (such as wholesale distirbutions and flea markets).


Snowmman staes:

Quote

4) If you want to control the facts about the Duane and Jo show that you release, for whatever reasons, then I'll stop.

First there is NO Duane and Jo show - it is not a show - just a journey for the truth - and it is a hard one. I never said I was releasing anything. I am going to Wa in search of answers to questions.

make sure that the pictures (all of them) and pictures of the other suspects and ALL composites are posted in some publication along with my letter asking for help into the background of Duane and these other individuals.

ALL known AKA's of Duane will be published - especially the one CKRET Ignored. Because it was of the missing period in Duane's life...which we know from his knowledge of Wa and Or some of it had to have been in that area.

If not from that era - then when in his life other than the prison time he spent at McNeil could he have learnd that area so well - he could find pipeline and powerlines (noted that you could walk for miles without being seen), those hat things, cabins, bars, camp sites, fishing cabins, creeks in the woods, sheds in the woods and towers, tracks, airports (2 he sited)., Shall I take this list on and on. The boat missing from the marina below the Washougal area, the feeding station in the woods, 2 cementaries, a woman in the St.Helen, Or. area who ran a store.

These are things I have been saying from day one in my conversations with the FBI and Himmelsbach and the reporter who helped me for 2 yrs before I went public in 2000 - there are multiple individuals I told ALL of these things to prior to 2000.

The hat thing - was the only new thing I have mentioned. I did tell Pasternak and others about the area he drove me thru and that he pointed out something that I didn't see saying I missed it - he said something about planes and a building but I did not have a clue what they were until this forum...sort of difficult to explain something that you did not understand...this was written in my orginal writings of the places he took me and the things he showed me and the things he told me...dated 1998 -.

I had been asked to write down everything I could remember about the trip by Doug Pasternak and Himmelsbach had told me to keep notes about people who contacted me and what I remembered.

Someone does not learn this area from 17 months spent in the McNeil Island Prison in 1945 - 1947.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

It would be interesting to find out more about the shoe allegedly found by the Army searcher. It's a real long shot but if it were Cooper's shoe it would give you better exit info than the money or the placard. Gives a Cinderella aspect to the case.

If the shoe existed, I am unsure about whether it would be a long shot.

How many slip-on loafers are you going to find in woods? People don't hike in loafers.

A find of that shoe, in that area, would provide facts:
1-an exit point. The shoe would come off at exit and have a poor glide path.
2-a DNA match to suspects. He would be wearing his normal shoes that he wore and sweated in, on a day to day basis.
3-physical description. Size and width would provide a closer estimate of height and weight.

Per the discussion earlier, the subject was dropped.
So, either the shoe did not exist, does not exist now, or is not being discussed.

We have a guy at our dz that will ask you where you chopped and at what altitude. He will check the winds aloft and then go find your main. He is very successful.

A shoe landing point, wind measurements from 10K to the ground, a round. Good stuff to narrow down a landing area.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snowmman stated:

Quote

2) Did your kids live with you and Duane during the early years of your marriage? I'm guessing at their ages, but they would seem to have been <18 at that point? or no?

What business is this of yours or anyone else? For your information my youngest daughter was with us and Duane thought the world of her.

I was musing about why you might have remembered the WA trip so well. You had only known Duane 2-3? years then? and been married maybe 2? years? Was this the first big trip away without your daughter? Did you guys take other big trips like this?

You remember amazing details about a single trip to WA 16-17 years later. You were working a lot of hours as you say. I'm guessing you guys didn't take very many big trips like this. Were there others?

As you've seen with the Cooper case, every detail can be interesting. You believe that only the details you want to talk about are interesting in the Duane show. That's part of why your story is not believable. Fleshing out the details fleshes out the Duane profile more, I think. I think you don't want to flesh out the details more, because every detail makes it sound less like Duane the Skyjacker.

[Mr.Nuke 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If Rataczak and others could see the lights of Portland
Cooper could see them too! He knew where he was at
in general terms and bailed.

Not necessarily. Your statement seems to imply that Rataczak and Cooper had an equal view which they did not. Rataczak is sitting at the front of the plane with a near 180 degree view in front of him. Cooper is either looking out side windows, which gives you little indication of what is in front of you. Or he is standing at the backstairs giving no indication at all of what is in front of him.

But again to know where you are in "general terms" on a plane, if you know the route doesn't require seeing anything.

REPLY> I knew some one would say this. All he has to do is look out the windows, the cabin is dark. Or out
the back of the aircraft at the direction of skyglow.
He knows Vancouver and Portland are coming up. He
knows the area.

The way you worded your initial statement isn't always true. If you are approaching a city straight on in an airplane the flight crew is going to see the glow and subsequently the lights before a passenger does. Given the likelihood of clouds that night the fact that Cooper likely had his back to the city, and my experiences that flying at night you get less "night glow" than driving when approaching a city, It isn't as certain as you are trying to make it out to be.

[georger 247]

Quote

georger:

reading thru your synopsis, it makes me think there's nothing that should make us care about the exact details of the money.

Those facts should give us a reasonable guess at a Cooper LZ. Then an inspection of that LZ allows us to guess at a probability of whether a dead Cooper wasn't found. If we then agree the probability says Cooper didn't die, isn't that all we need? Or a probability that he did die and just wasn't found?

Any details about how the money got to Tina Bar doesn't really help us in identifying Cooper, does it?

I think we were intent on this money thing, because it might help with the flight path or LZ prediction. But now in looking at the facts you outline, it doesn't seem like the money helps in either of those.

So why do we care about the money at Tina Bar? Are you thinking it might help fine tune a prediction on whether Cooper survived? I'm not sure it's needed for that?

REPLY: Sure you can forget about the money and Tina
Bar and search for Cooper remains near Scotton Corner etc. But 37 years has already accomplished that. The is barely one stick of ground that hasnt been
explored one way or another and nothing ever seen or
noticed.

I dont know anything about a shoe being found or a boat being stolen. Likewise I dont know anything about a corpse being found in a rail car 300 miles away that was never linked to the hijacking, if that
ever occurred.

I can also say with absolute certainty that had the
original jump point been projected as being Scotton
Corner, the rail line at Scott would have come under
intense investigtion. It is an obvious escape route -
which just happens to lead right behind Tina Bar,
where Cooper money just happens to surface 9 years
later. That's some "coincidence", in my book.

I suppose if he had packed roller skates we would ALL be looking at - - - railroad tracks! The logic in this matter gets a little humorous at times. It's like a board meeting with vested interests at stake and oil
going higher every day?

I wonder if there is Quicksand at Vancouver Lake?
Maybe his bones are there after jumping off a railcar?
Maybe there is quicksand at Scotton Corner, but I doubt it.

Sluggo etc have moved this whole case from Merwin Lake to the Scotton area which is to move it from wilderness to civilisation, and Cooper still leaves
vanishes and leaves no trace. That is no small
accomplishment! He must have had a valet waiting.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I was musing about why you might have remembered the WA trip so well.(edited)
I think you don't want to flesh out the details more, because every detail makes it sound less like Duane the Skyjacker.

Questions you are asking are personal and not for a forum - so far I have been an open book but this is going too far. I think I have given FAR more DETAILS than necessary. ARE you wanting to know the most intimate details of our marriage?

If you were a writer doing a book you might be entitled to answer to the details of our lives, but considering this is a public forum - You have stepped over the line.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

If Rataczak and others could see the lights of Portland
Cooper could see them too! He knew where he was at
in general terms and bailed.

Not necessarily. Your statement seems to imply that Rataczak and Cooper had an equal view which they did not. Rataczak is sitting at the front of the plane with a near 180 degree view in front of him. Cooper is either looking out side windows, which gives you little indication of what is in front of you. Or he is standing at the backstairs giving no indication at all of what is in front of him.

But again to know where you are in "general terms" on a plane, if you know the route doesn't require seeing anything.

REPLY> OK. Thanks.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I can also say with absolute certainty that had the
original jump point been projected as being Scotton
Corner, the rail line at Scott would have come under
intense investigtion. It is an obvious escape route -
which just happens to lead right behind Tina Bar,
where Cooper money just happens to surface 9 years
later. That's some "coincidence", in my book.

I don't think you're thinking clearly. Or you've never walked railroad tracks.

Why is the railroad track an escape route. So you get to Tina Bar. You're not done. Where do you go from there...You get off, lose some money then get back on the train?

If you got on the train, there's no reason to get off at Tina Bar? The Tina Bar connection is being used to justify the validity of the train path for escape, but the Tina Bar link makes no sense, train-wise? if escape is the goal?

(edit) Also you can't get off a train unless it slows to maybe 10-15mph. Faster than that is crazy?

I've not heard a sensible train theory.

It makes most sense to get back to Portland. You had to get to Portland area somehow to start the trip? Getting to Portland makes sense. A random railroad walk or hop makes no sense. Can you flesh it out?