georger 244
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QuoteJo: I don't know if Duane was the guy, but I know you are not Knoss. Being wrong is one thing, but just completely making up a story is quite another.
(SEE: 'Bob Knoss and Marla Cooper' for details, LOL.)
Honestly, not trying to be snarky. But, you, yourself, have got to recognize that you took a series of facts and wove a story around them. You have a person who had jumped before, who was unaccounted for that weekend and came into money sometime after -- but nothing to tie him to the hijacking. And, you wrote a book about it.
You must see the irony in that.
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteQuoteOk, I can accept transitional styles in 1971 spanning the 60's and the 70's. It's easy to believe that Cooper could wear clothes that looked early 60's in 1971 and not expect to stand out.
Q2: So you are planning to jump from 10,000 feet, in the late November sky wearing a suit and dress shoes with an overcoat over potentially wooded and mountainous terrain. Sounds really cold and really stupid. Why?
Q3: Why did he wait to purchase his ticket last at the airline counter? The last person is the first one remembered.
Q4: What about the dropzone? What should it have looked like? How could he have known when to jump in order to hit his dropzone?
Replies to your questions:
Q2: Why? The short answer is that it was really stupid, but also see the answer to Q4. However, it is possible that the late afternoon before Thanksgiving Day was the ideal time (at least in Cooper's mind) for the hijacking due to quite a reduction in governmental activities on Thanksgiving Day. Also, that time frame may have been the best fit for him in some manner.
Q2: I personally haven't seen anything that stated Cooper was the last person to buy a ticket for the flight. But he is reported to have been the last person to board the aircraft, which the passengers did through the aft stairs. And he then took a seat in the last row on the right side of the cabin. While waiting to board, Cooper spent some time in the general area of the other Portland boarders and could have checked them out and made sure he didn't know any of them. Any thru passengers and the cabin crew could be easily checked out in the few minutes it took to board. Cooper was apparently satisfied that he didn't know any of these people and he then passed the hijacking note to a flight attendant jut as the airplane was taking off.
Q4: Cooper specified that the money be ready at a time that was well past sunset. Adding in the cloudy day, Cooper knew that it would be absolutely dark when he jumped. If Cooper had a jump point in mind, it was probably very close to Seattle and maybe in the Fort Lewis/McChord AFB area. The aircraft was above an overcast before Cooper managed to get the aft stairs unlocked. That means he could not see a jump point in the first place and did not have a means to determine his location with any accuracy. So he had to jump "blind".
Robert99
He also picked a flight that had only been added at
the end of August -
And that means that his planning, or at least the final planning, for the hijacking had to be made between the end of August and Thanksgiving Eve (November 24th). A slightly less than three months period.
Robert99
georger 244
He also picked a flight that had only been added at
the end of August -
the end of August -
And that means that his planning, or at least the final planning, for the hijacking had to be made between the end of August and Thanksgiving Eve (November 24th). A slightly less than three months period.
Robert99
Ckret thought it was just a coincidence.
georger 244
You have a person who had jumped before, who was unaccounted for that weekend and came into money sometime after -- .
Except he is accounted for on that weekend - he was with Geestman... somewhere.
The information on this thread has become corrupted and little resembles a shread of the real story anymore as it was reported.
The thread has become useless except for those who wish to confuse the facts....and to bury the real story in so much Crap that NO one would ever be able to find the truths.
Has become a useless waste of time lately.
Cooper chose November 24 only because it was a date associated with some things in his life - good memories or bad memories. He was alone on a Thankgiving eve - a man who seemed all but lost. Cooper was a NOBODY lost in a sea of grief over a life wasted and yet bitter about this.....he had lost everything and he faced a battle with his own demons and health.
He chose to go out doing the BIG ONE. Cooper never thought he would survive - he expected the Sky Marshalls would charge and kill him...that or he would spend the rest of his life in a cell.
A cell was basically all he had ever known and there was NO family left. He could see NO way out - he was totally alone. His life had been useless.
The recent diagnosis regarding the Polysitic Kidney disease he inherited from his mother was defeating. His life was defeated.
Why did he choose WA. Perhaps he wanted to die in a place that made him feel like he belonged. A place that made him feel happy and the only place he ever seemed to connect with others. His memories of Wa and Or where the only happy memories he had.
Cooper did NOT expect to live, but he survived and it was a life altering thing. He didn't know what to do - he didn't know who to turn to. He ended up contacting someone from his past - a person whose own life was not a pretty one....but, the only person he had to turn to.
On the run he sent out a note - he was flaunting his survival - still hoping the FBI would catch him, but they didn't even get the code he sent to the Reno paper.
He waited and still no one had a clue who Cooper was. Then he headed to N.Y. arriving there for the New Yr. and again tried to turn himself in by contacting a man who had written stories about changing your identity.
As time went on - he decided it was time to step away from his past - in relationships and to try to make something of his life.
He was still "heady" about what he did - but, he could share it with NO ONE. He had found the confidence he needed to succeed in life - but, he had to walk away from his Past - completely.
He needed a partner to do this with and it hit him like a ton of brick on that night in August of 1977 when he went to a very high-end but low key place to have a drink.....
That night he decided he had to change. Perhaps he was out to make a "hit" on yet another mark, but when he found out her grandfather's name was the same as an aliase he had use - he felt he had a shield. He was only going to use the shield for a little while, but when he met her daughter - he changed. She looked like the girl on the plane.
The stewardess on the plane - he could never get her out of his mind or his memory. Perhaps he felt fate had stepped in and this girl and her mother would become his salvation. He did not become an angel, but he did make steps to be all he could and as the yrs started to unwind and he did not die of the disease as he thought he would within 5 yrs. He liked the life he was experiencing and he found himself. He became confident enough to contact his sister around 1984.
Then several yrs later he knew the time was coming the - dreaded fate he had escape for way too long.
Elephant - what does an elephant have to do with Cooper?
Take the Baby down stair,
Bring the Baby back up,
I can't go till the baby gets here.
I love youuu! And then the death gurgle.
End of the story!
Cooper died and those were his last words....words I will never understand.
The thread has become useless except for those who wish to confuse the facts....and to bury the real story in so much Crap that NO one would ever be able to find the truths.
Has become a useless waste of time lately.
Cooper chose November 24 only because it was a date associated with some things in his life - good memories or bad memories. He was alone on a Thankgiving eve - a man who seemed all but lost. Cooper was a NOBODY lost in a sea of grief over a life wasted and yet bitter about this.....he had lost everything and he faced a battle with his own demons and health.
He chose to go out doing the BIG ONE. Cooper never thought he would survive - he expected the Sky Marshalls would charge and kill him...that or he would spend the rest of his life in a cell.
A cell was basically all he had ever known and there was NO family left. He could see NO way out - he was totally alone. His life had been useless.
The recent diagnosis regarding the Polysitic Kidney disease he inherited from his mother was defeating. His life was defeated.
Why did he choose WA. Perhaps he wanted to die in a place that made him feel like he belonged. A place that made him feel happy and the only place he ever seemed to connect with others. His memories of Wa and Or where the only happy memories he had.
Cooper did NOT expect to live, but he survived and it was a life altering thing. He didn't know what to do - he didn't know who to turn to. He ended up contacting someone from his past - a person whose own life was not a pretty one....but, the only person he had to turn to.
On the run he sent out a note - he was flaunting his survival - still hoping the FBI would catch him, but they didn't even get the code he sent to the Reno paper.
He waited and still no one had a clue who Cooper was. Then he headed to N.Y. arriving there for the New Yr. and again tried to turn himself in by contacting a man who had written stories about changing your identity.
As time went on - he decided it was time to step away from his past - in relationships and to try to make something of his life.
He was still "heady" about what he did - but, he could share it with NO ONE. He had found the confidence he needed to succeed in life - but, he had to walk away from his Past - completely.
He needed a partner to do this with and it hit him like a ton of brick on that night in August of 1977 when he went to a very high-end but low key place to have a drink.....
That night he decided he had to change. Perhaps he was out to make a "hit" on yet another mark, but when he found out her grandfather's name was the same as an aliase he had use - he felt he had a shield. He was only going to use the shield for a little while, but when he met her daughter - he changed. She looked like the girl on the plane.
The stewardess on the plane - he could never get her out of his mind or his memory. Perhaps he felt fate had stepped in and this girl and her mother would become his salvation. He did not become an angel, but he did make steps to be all he could and as the yrs started to unwind and he did not die of the disease as he thought he would within 5 yrs. He liked the life he was experiencing and he found himself. He became confident enough to contact his sister around 1984.
Then several yrs later he knew the time was coming the - dreaded fate he had escape for way too long.
Elephant - what does an elephant have to do with Cooper?
Take the Baby down stair,
Bring the Baby back up,
I can't go till the baby gets here.
I love youuu! And then the death gurgle.
End of the story!
Cooper died and those were his last words....words I will never understand.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
I was told by sources that Weber was NOT Cooper and that the witnesses said it was Not Duane.
BUT, not one time did I ever see someone who could tell me that face to face....NOT ONCE.
Was Weber actually Cooper - will anyone ever know the truth? Probably not! Until then - I will believe he was and if he wasn't he damn sure knew who was!
I will never understand WHY on that trip to WA in 1979 - he wanted to make a side trip. On this brief side trip he instructed me to make this picture of this man. This was the last wk of Sept or the 1st wk of Oct and the location was SALT LAKE.
Who was this man and what was his connection to Duane's past?
I gave Galen Cook this picture yrs ago to see if it was Gossett.
Galen claimed to have shown it to his wife and children - they said it was NOT Gossett. Since Galen was in touch with me in 2004 - I may have sent it to him before Gossett became a suspect.
Who WAS this MAN and why WAS he so important to Weber he arranged for his wife (me) to make take this photo in 1979.?
What was this man's connection to Duane Weber. NOT one person in Salt Lake would or could ID this man, yet he worked out of a office in the Vistor's Center before it was torn down!
You will never know if you don't know now.
BUT, not one time did I ever see someone who could tell me that face to face....NOT ONCE.
Was Weber actually Cooper - will anyone ever know the truth? Probably not! Until then - I will believe he was and if he wasn't he damn sure knew who was!
I will never understand WHY on that trip to WA in 1979 - he wanted to make a side trip. On this brief side trip he instructed me to make this picture of this man. This was the last wk of Sept or the 1st wk of Oct and the location was SALT LAKE.
Who was this man and what was his connection to Duane's past?
I gave Galen Cook this picture yrs ago to see if it was Gossett.
Galen claimed to have shown it to his wife and children - they said it was NOT Gossett. Since Galen was in touch with me in 2004 - I may have sent it to him before Gossett became a suspect.
Who WAS this MAN and why WAS he so important to Weber he arranged for his wife (me) to make take this photo in 1979.?
What was this man's connection to Duane Weber. NOT one person in Salt Lake would or could ID this man, yet he worked out of a office in the Vistor's Center before it was torn down!
You will never know if you don't know now.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Jo wrote
??? Duane certainly knew how to get arrested. He had been arrested many times. It's impossible to believe that he couldn't manage to accomplish this when he wanted to. If you want to get arrested you go to the FBI, not to an identity change author.
Your story, although quite moving, is pure speculation. If this was a suicide mission Cooper wouldn't have been so careful to avoid being shot through a window by FBI marksmen who would have been happy to fulfill a death wish. Whoever Cooper was, he took measures to avoid getting gunned down.
Your theory that Duane would take hot twenties back into the crime area and toss them in the river makes no sense. That's unnecessarily risky. You claim he was so wary of being associated with Norjack that he wouldn't even let you watch a TV show about it. How would it make sense for him to transport evidence that could nail him? Duane's felony record would be disclosed by radio to any cop who pulled him over. When cops pull over a driver and learn that he's a felon, they almost always find a reason to do a search. It would be insane to carry incriminating evidence on a car trip.
377
QuoteHe waited and still no one had a clue who Cooper was. Then he headed to N.Y. arriving there for the New Yr. and again tried to turn himself in by contacting a man who had written stories about changing your identity.
??? Duane certainly knew how to get arrested. He had been arrested many times. It's impossible to believe that he couldn't manage to accomplish this when he wanted to. If you want to get arrested you go to the FBI, not to an identity change author.
Your story, although quite moving, is pure speculation. If this was a suicide mission Cooper wouldn't have been so careful to avoid being shot through a window by FBI marksmen who would have been happy to fulfill a death wish. Whoever Cooper was, he took measures to avoid getting gunned down.
Your theory that Duane would take hot twenties back into the crime area and toss them in the river makes no sense. That's unnecessarily risky. You claim he was so wary of being associated with Norjack that he wouldn't even let you watch a TV show about it. How would it make sense for him to transport evidence that could nail him? Duane's felony record would be disclosed by radio to any cop who pulled him over. When cops pull over a driver and learn that he's a felon, they almost always find a reason to do a search. It would be insane to carry incriminating evidence on a car trip.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
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QuoteMaybe. But if that is true then he was not worried about beind ID'd. When you want to get away with a crime before it is committed, don't you want to do everything beforehand to ensure success.
The dress doesn't fit. But...it may be inconsequential.
I asked a question earlier -- Why wasn't Cooper afraid of being recognized? You have to remember, in terms of dress, the early 70s were just an extension of the crazy 60s. No such thing as a wardrobe malfunction back then. Nobody really cared how anybody dressed back then. We were just starting to recover from the withdrawals caused by free love, sit-ins, love-ins, psychedic shirts, and Woodstock. I'm betting DBC's outdated apparel didn't even get a second look.
But I still keep thinking why he didn't try to cover his face or make an attempt to disguise himself in some way. He just didn't seem to even be concerned about it. Why? Maybe the disguise was already in place -- a complete makeover or facelift before he got there, maybe? Or maybe he wasn't from here, he lived far, far away, from some remote location and figured the chances of someone recognizing him were slim to none. But you ask, how then did he know where Tacoma was? He must be from here then. Maybe not. Maybe he could have come around weeks or months earlier (disguised), cased the joint, then flown over the area several times to get the lay of the land -- all the while planning every detail of his sordid deed.
If he had worked for Boeing or Northwest in the past, don't you think someone(s) somewhere along the way would have recognized him? He had to fill out a job application, he had to go to the job interview, he had to pick up his paycheck, he had to drop by Human Resourcers, he had to go to work. Then the DBC composites were on every newspaper and TV screen around the world. If the composite sketches were anywhere close, don't you think someone, somewhere in the Boeing or Northwest Airline ranks would have recognized him?
Blevins, please do not respond to this post. Nobody wants your 20 paragraphs of regurgitated, broken- record, singing-the-praises of "KC and the Sunshine Band."
MeyerLouie
A second instinct takes over and that is why he avoided being shot in the event they had sharp shooters out there, but the windows are basically bullet proof.
A sniper was not going to fire randomly at a window with the blinds pulled down - innocent people were on that plane.
Whoever Cooper was, he took measures to avoid getting gunned down. Yes he did by pulling 2 of the blinds down. I did NOT even know this was where the plane was and I knew nothing about the crime.
That is human instinct - to avoid being shot - he pulled down the blinds in the seats he was sitting at. Yea, I knew this but I never read anything about it that I am aware of. Just a comment he made at the airport about 2 blinds being pulled down. He actually mentioned this on the back side of the airport, but I didn't realize he was talking about a hijacked plane and that he was the skyjacker.
The twentys he took back or retrieve from a hiding place were damaged - so he wanted to get rid of the (Probably so I wouldn't see them). This was in 1979. At that time he had realized he had a life and he wanted that life.
I was easy to fool.
Carrying criminating evidence. That is why he had me stay in the car twice. He was unloaded anything that was damaged.
Then when we cross the river and he head East on along the river - and we get down to a road that would have gone to Hood River, he turns around and asked me if I would like to go to Tahoe. I asked if we could afford it and he told me they gave him a cash bonus at the meeting. THERE where NO Cash bonuses paid.
His not letting me watch TV about the crime is because it had only been a few months and he was afraid I would put the things he did and said together. I would get suspicious and call the police - this was 8 yrs after the crime. I was pretty gullible.
I believe he really really did it.
A sniper was not going to fire randomly at a window with the blinds pulled down - innocent people were on that plane.
Whoever Cooper was, he took measures to avoid getting gunned down. Yes he did by pulling 2 of the blinds down. I did NOT even know this was where the plane was and I knew nothing about the crime.
That is human instinct - to avoid being shot - he pulled down the blinds in the seats he was sitting at. Yea, I knew this but I never read anything about it that I am aware of. Just a comment he made at the airport about 2 blinds being pulled down. He actually mentioned this on the back side of the airport, but I didn't realize he was talking about a hijacked plane and that he was the skyjacker.
The twentys he took back or retrieve from a hiding place were damaged - so he wanted to get rid of the (Probably so I wouldn't see them). This was in 1979. At that time he had realized he had a life and he wanted that life.
I was easy to fool.
Carrying criminating evidence. That is why he had me stay in the car twice. He was unloaded anything that was damaged.
Then when we cross the river and he head East on along the river - and we get down to a road that would have gone to Hood River, he turns around and asked me if I would like to go to Tahoe. I asked if we could afford it and he told me they gave him a cash bonus at the meeting. THERE where NO Cash bonuses paid.
His not letting me watch TV about the crime is because it had only been a few months and he was afraid I would put the things he did and said together. I would get suspicious and call the police - this was 8 yrs after the crime. I was pretty gullible.
I believe he really really did it.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Meyer Louie wrote
That's a big IF. Everyone assumes that the sketch was an accurate depiction of DBC. I worked on cases where composite sketches were prepared, witnesses all agreed that the sketch closely resembled the perpetrator, then a guy is arrested, tied to the crime by solid evidence... and he looks VERY different from the sketch. Go figure.
I've seen witnesses get height and weight waaaay off too. Sometimes they even got eye color wrong.
I too wonder why Cooper appeared to take no significant disguise measures. But I've represented defendants who stuck up places they KNEW had cameras and yet they didn't put on a mask. I think Cooper was way smarter than they were. If Ted Braden was DBC he might have figured he'd spend his life in non extraditable exhile and didn't care if he was eventually identified.
Because of my experience with police sketches, I don't assume that the FBI drawings closely resemble Cooper. I've seen too many cases where the drawings were highly inaccurate.
377
QuoteIf the composite sketches were anywhere close, don't you think someone, somewhere in the Boeing or Northwest Airline ranks would have recognized him?
That's a big IF. Everyone assumes that the sketch was an accurate depiction of DBC. I worked on cases where composite sketches were prepared, witnesses all agreed that the sketch closely resembled the perpetrator, then a guy is arrested, tied to the crime by solid evidence... and he looks VERY different from the sketch. Go figure.
I've seen witnesses get height and weight waaaay off too. Sometimes they even got eye color wrong.
I too wonder why Cooper appeared to take no significant disguise measures. But I've represented defendants who stuck up places they KNEW had cameras and yet they didn't put on a mask. I think Cooper was way smarter than they were. If Ted Braden was DBC he might have figured he'd spend his life in non extraditable exhile and didn't care if he was eventually identified.
Because of my experience with police sketches, I don't assume that the FBI drawings closely resemble Cooper. I've seen too many cases where the drawings were highly inaccurate.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
He also picked a flight that had only been added at
the end of August -
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