DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

" BK may not be as crazy as some of you make him out to be. "

the problem with BK is the fact of more than half of his story was taken from jo, the
rest he puts into a believable form that is also taken from other plausible theories.
he admits to talking to Mac just last year and yet in 2006 claims he received a photo
from him before he died? went to school with David Haapala, but never mentioned this.
said he was a college drop out, another false statement. didn't know the Induction process
(said he went on a Saturday?) the list is way to long on his false statements.

he likes to mix a little truth in order to suck you in. BK isn't stupid or he wouldn't have gone on
as long as he did. BK stayed here because he was safe. other forms kicked him out. once you
call his bluff, he returns changing the subject or resorts to childish name calling. I have contacted
news sources willing to talk to him, but he backs out. he then says he will only talk to LE or a
State Attorney's Office, I told him I could also arrange this, gone again. it's all a game to him.

still on the fence whether he is nuts or just finding this a fun past time....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Guru312 0]

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It's such a non-point. MeyerLouie

Of course. Almost everything being "discussed" here is a non-point.

What is being accomplished by all of this "discussion"? Really? I truly don't get it. I question my own rationality for even bothering to read this thread...and post once a month the way I do.

Doing what DB did was almost trivial. Thousands -...tens of thousands...of jumpers could pull it off. With one exception: doing it alone without loss of the money bag.

Tying the money bag to the harness/body without help is almost impossible. The found money pretty much confirms it, from my perspective.

550 cord (parachute line to you whuffos) is notoriously difficult to work with and tie... without some practice. The act of tying the bag to the harness or his body without another pair of hands to support the cumbersome weight and shape of the bag would be very difficult, IMO.

Finding buried money, dredging, pressure bumps, rain, placards, airways etc etc,..all unimportant.

He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[MeyerLouie 5]

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It's such a non-point. MeyerLouie

Of course. Almost everything being "discussed" here is a non-point.

What is being accomplished by all of this "discussion"? Really? I truly don't get it. I question my own rationality for even bothering to read this thread...and post once a month the way I do.

__________________________________________________


Oh, c'mon now, you don't really mean that, do ya? Meyer Louie
__________________________________________________

Doing what DB did was almost trivial. Thousands -...tens of thousands...of jumpers could pull it off. With one exception: doing it alone without loss of the money bag.

Tying the money bag to the harness/body without help is almost impossible. The found money pretty much confirms it, from my perspective.

550 cord (parachute line to you whuffos) is notoriously difficult to work with and tie... without some practice. The act of tying the bag to the harness or his body without another pair of hands to support the cumbersome weight and shape of the bag would be very difficult, IMO.

Finding buried money, dredging, pressure bumps, rain, placards, airways etc etc,..all unimportant.

He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

_________________________________________________

Couldn't Cooper have sat in one of the chairs (or even on the floor), with the moneybag sitting in the chair next to him. That way, he wouldn't have to support the weight of the moneybag while trying to tie the rope around himself and around the moneybag. Is that a possibility? Difficult, but if anyone practiced, I'm betting it was him.

And we're not talking just about the moneybag. How about the briefcase and its contents, and the other two parachutes? Could he have packed all that stuff along in the jump without losing any of it? A lot has already been said about the possibility of him going into a tailspin because of when he actually pulled the cord and because of his equilibrium and balance being so adversely affected by the parcels and weight he was carrying. I'm not a skydiver, so I guess I'm asking your expert opinion.

MeyerLouie

[georger 244]

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It's such a non-point. MeyerLouie

Of course. Almost everything being "discussed" here is a non-point.

What is being accomplished by all of this "discussion"? Really? I truly don't get it. I question my own rationality for even bothering to read this thread...and post once a month the way I do.

Doing what DB did was almost trivial. Thousands -...tens of thousands...of jumpers could pull it off. With one exception: doing it alone without loss of the money bag.

Tying the money bag to the harness/body without help is almost impossible. The found money pretty much confirms it, from my perspective.

550 cord (parachute line to you whuffos) is notoriously difficult to work with and tie... without some practice. The act of tying the bag to the harness or his body without another pair of hands to support the cumbersome weight and shape of the bag would be very difficult, IMO.

Finding buried money, dredging, pressure bumps, rain, placards, airways etc etc,..all unimportant.

He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

There is direct witness testimony to support your
position - and I believe you stated almost exactly what
you say tonight, years ago! I remember it well.

No more Einsteinian ego fart palaver needed.

[georger 244]

Robert replies: Sure, they put thought into it. Later they said the money was probably a sign Cooper died in the jump. Agent Furhman told me that yes...my thoughts on how approximately three bundles of the ransom ended up there, and nothing else...was not discussed in 1980. He said no one at that time who was investigating the money find thought of it, and he agreed with my point that it might be evidentiary. If you don't believe me, you can contact him yourself and ask him. He also has a daughter and both of them live in the Seattle area. The Seattle FBI office will forward messages/mail to him if you ask.

[georger 244]

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Robert replies: Sure, they put thought into it. Later they said the money was probably a sign Cooper died in the jump. Agent Furhman told me that yes...my thoughts on how approximately three bundles of the ransom ended up there, and nothing else...was not discussed in 1980. He said no one at that time who was investigating the money find thought of it, and he agreed with my point that it might be evidentiary. If you don't believe me, you can contact him yourself and ask him. He also has a daughter and both of them live in the Seattle area. The Seattle FBI office will forward messages/mail to him if you ask.

My guess is Agent Furhman never said what you are
saying he said!

It's total bullshit in any event, from a dozen different
angles.

Two buys in a bar. One guy says: "Did you see the two
assholes on that camel that went by?" The other guy
records months later: "The tail on the camel
concealed two assholes".

You would say something like that. Fuhrman and I weren't the only ones at the table, though. His daughter, Geoff Gray, among others.

Better go check on your camel.

Well to begin with, robo-poster of editorials, you
have a long record here of making stuff up. And
then the utter gall to deny and attack anyone who
says you are making stuff up! That was the whole
point of Farflung's whole dialogue with you, which
you conveniently dismiss and forget waiting to wear
Farflung down and leave.

Nothing you have said since you came to Dropzone
has turned out to be true or even germane and Im
just guessing your dialogue with Furhrman is just one
more instance of that.

You claimed to have the Palmer Report and that
melted away like the fabrication it was ...

You claimed to have damaging email against me
from Geoff Gray and Geoff and I talked at length
on Monday and Geoff says he hasnt even emailed
you in the last several months, has nothing to do with
you, and he searched and said: ' the only email I
have sent Blevins are a few quick five word replies
so it sounds to me like Blevins is just making trouble'.

There you have it!

"Agent Furhman told me that yes...my thoughts on
how approximately three bundles of the ransom
ended up there, and nothing else...was not discussed
in 1980. He said no one at that time who was
investigating the money find thought of it, and he
agreed with my point that it might be evidentiary.'

What is this "it" you keeping yammering about
claiming it is some new discovery dumb FBI agents
and consultants galore, failed to think of?

The only reason I can think of for an FBI agent telling
you " He said no one at that time who was investigat-
ing the money find thought of it, and he agreed with
my point that it might be evidentiary.' ... was to say:
"If you want to pretend you have discovered
something new, well then yes, it whatever 'it' is,
could be evidential."

Furhman is telling you that your obtuse thoughts,
were not thought of at the time, and if whatever it is
you are claiming had been true (WHICH IT ISNT!) ...
then yes, chocolate and cows flying in ufos would be
"evidential"

My guess is Furhman was just brushing you off.
Because it isn't the first time you have put words in
people's mouths including the FBI.

Isn't this just about RobertMBlevins looking for
meaning and purpose in Blevins' life, and nothing
more, and is completely irrelevant to the actual DB
Cooper case? Your whole history in this has been to
claim insight and special evidence, only to have it
vanish when pressed .. !

It's all mind games on the part of RobertMBlevins
in what Geoff Gray describes as the "snakepit" of
Dropzone.

I will post more about my conversation with Geoff
tonight -

[Amazon 7]

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He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

Well we know he left the airplane... some of the money did make it to the ground as well

I did not start jumping till a year later.. its not me

BUT I could tie that shit on with no issues with the suspension lines he used... think sheet bend knot

[airtwardo 7]

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It's such a non-point. MeyerLouie

Of course. Almost everything being "discussed" here is a non-point.

What is being accomplished by all of this "discussion"? Really? I truly don't get it. I question my own rationality for even bothering to read this thread...and post once a month the way I do.

__________________________________________________


Oh, c'mon now, you don't really mean that, do ya? Meyer Louie
__________________________________________________

Doing what DB did was almost trivial. Thousands -...tens of thousands...of jumpers could pull it off. With one exception: doing it alone without loss of the money bag.

Tying the money bag to the harness/body without help is almost impossible. The found money pretty much confirms it, from my perspective.

550 cord (parachute line to you whuffos) is notoriously difficult to work with and tie... without some practice. The act of tying the bag to the harness or his body without another pair of hands to support the cumbersome weight and shape of the bag would be very difficult, IMO.

Finding buried money, dredging, pressure bumps, rain, placards, airways etc etc,..all unimportant.

He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

_________________________________________________

Couldn't Cooper have sat in one of the chairs (or even on the floor), with the moneybag sitting in the chair next to him. That way, he wouldn't have to support the weight of the moneybag while trying to tie the rope around himself and around the moneybag. Is that a possibility? Difficult, but if anyone practiced, I'm betting it was him.

And we're not talking just about the moneybag. How about the briefcase and its contents, and the other two parachutes? Could he have packed all that stuff along in the jump without losing any of it? A lot has already been said about the possibility of him going into a tailspin because of when he actually pulled the cord and because of his equilibrium and balance being so adversely affected by the parcels and weight he was carrying. I'm not a skydiver, so I guess I'm asking your expert opinion.

MeyerLouie

As a point of clarification ~ I do a lot of jumping with large heavy things attached to my harness & have a rather extensive background with designing, manufacturing, rigging & testing said gear.

Without knowin' the how's & where's Cooper actually attached the bag, it's impossible to speculate with reasonable certainty if it landed with him or not.

That being said, one must consider that the type of parachute line he used to facilitate the attachment was just about the worst kind of thing to use for that application short of kite string.

It's strong for sure, the '550' designation refers to the strength in pounds...but it was designed AS suspension lines FOR parachutes...in other words, resistant to 'knotting up'.

It's fairly slick, 'thick' & round...It's constructed of several smaller thinner nylon lines packed tightly into a tightly woven round nylon covering sheath.

It is certainly flexible, however when one uses it for something like boot laces it won't stay tight. The nylon tends to slip against itself always loosing up.

IF Cooper were to tie any kind of 'ordinary' knot...which he likely would have - and cut the trailing end pieces down short in order to minimize interference with grabbing the ripcord - which makes sense...he only greatly increased the chances the line would slip the knot and become undone.

I've utilized 550 to ASSIST in the attachment of gear to a harness...it's usually necessary to use a bow-line knot and allow several inches of line trailing to insure positive performance. I wouldn't ever use 550 as the 'primary' method of attachment.

Also...for those unfamiliar with parachute harness systems - how they fit you while seated are considerably different than how they fit while standing.

Had Cooper placed the bag in his lap while seated to facilitate the attaching, as soon as he stood the bag would 'most likely' have slumped lower & looser than initially intended during the rigging of it.

What THAT would do is make for a more difficult jump in regard to achieving optimal body position for any kind of stable free-fall and consequently reduce the odds of a stable deployment.

I've personally jumped out of a 727 several times and under MUCH better conditions than Cooper had, with much better gear and with thousands of jumps experience...under the BEST of conditions - exit stability is a considerable challenge.

SO...

With the limited amount of factual information available -

~Logical speculation would dictate that it's quite possible an 'average Joe' with little practical real world experience in properly performing the multitude of intricate tasks needed to be done 100% correctly, in the limited time and under the obvious pressure associated with the hi-jacking...slipped up a few places & got separated from the prize.

IN FACT - given the things I've experienced through out my skydiving career - I'd tend to be more surprised to learn that he DIDN'T lose the bag!


AND...given that the only evidence of money verifiably associated with the crime was found not in general circulation, but instead out in the 'super-toolies' lumped together in 'bundles' certainly lends credence to the theory it was 'raining money' from the sky one dark & stormy night.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 244]

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He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

Well we know he left the airplane... some of the money did make it to the ground as well

I did not start jumping till a year later.. its not me

BUT I could tie that shit on with no issues with the suspension lines he used... think sheet bend knot

Tina's testimony is that 'he was having a lot of trouble
tying (it) off around his waste'.

This may go directly to Guru's point.

[georger 244]

Without knowin' the how's & where's Cooper actually attached the bag, it's impossible to speculate with reasonable certainty if it landed with him or not.

That being said,

[Amazon 7]

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He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

Well we know he left the airplane... some of the money did make it to the ground as well

I did not start jumping till a year later.. its not me

BUT I could tie that shit on with no issues with the suspension lines he used... think sheet bend knot

Tina's testimony is that 'he was having a lot of trouble
tying (it) off around his waste'.

This may go directly to Guru's point.

Obviously he was not a good "scout" then... soooooooo not prepared.

BUT. Tying the bag on is not real hard... and tying in the waist area in front poses no real challenge to keeping it there in place.. or in stability issues once it is tied to the harness.

[georger 244]

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He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't.

If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed...

I am not D B Cooper.

Well we know he left the airplane... some of the money did make it to the ground as well

I did not start jumping till a year later.. its not me

BUT I could tie that shit on with no issues with the suspension lines he used... think sheet bend knot

Tina's testimony is that 'he was having a lot of trouble
tying (it) off around his waste'.

This may go directly to Guru's point.

Obviously he was not a good "scout" then... soooooooo not prepared.

BUT. Tying the bag on is not real hard... and tying in the waist area in front poses no real challenge to keeping it there in place.. or in stability issues once it is tied to the harness.

Ckret cited this as one of the reasons he thinks
Cooper was an amateur. I can almost quote it: 'Just
knew enough to get himself in real trouble'. All based
on Tina's testimony. I am sure Guru remembers these
discussions here - 377 likewise.

OT: Do you know any of the guys in the Iowa Mountaineers? Chuck Huss or any of those guys ...
?

[Amazon 7]

Right.. but her concerns over how bad he was doing may have been misleading...

It may have looked like an exercise in goat roping while he was trying to rig it...Hell.... I would certainly be going thru a lot of gyrations making sure it was well attached... and probably adding a few colorful words into the process as well

[airtwardo 7]

Tina's testimony is very specific: he was typing it off
around his waste.

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I understand that she related to the best of her ability what she believed she saw...

However given the circumstances, I wouldn't bet the farm in respect to the description accuracy of Coopers impromptu rigging.

But that's just me...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 244]

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Right.. but her concerns over how bad he was doing may have been misleading...

It may have looked like an exercise in goat roping while he was trying to rig it...Hell.... I would certainly be going thru a lot of gyrations making sure it was well attached... and probably adding a few colorful words into the process as well

I know exactly where you're coming from ...
but she did a good job of describing the bomb from
memory ... and Im told her testimony on him tying
the bag around his waste was almost as detailed ..
the words "having a lot of trouble doing it ... was
struggling ... etc ... are in her description". Again
there was a lengthy discussion about all of this here
at the time.

[airtwardo 7]

BUT. Tying the bag on is not real hard... and tying in the waist area in front poses no real challenge to keeping it there in place.. or in stability issues once it is tied to the harness.

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Maybe not for a savvy survival instructor such as yourself...but we've BOTH seen experienced Skydivers that can't simply close a rig, much less tie a knot.

And I'd argue that at exit speed, sans considerable experience...a loosely secured item of considerable bulk & weight would definitely cause issues with stability.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

• Quote

[airtwardo 7]

...and probably adding a few colorful words into the process as well

Hey 'Zon...whether it stayed with him or not ~ whatdaya wanna bet the the friction burn from a line around the waist during deployment - left a bit of a 'mark'?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Amazon 7]

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...and probably adding a few colorful words into the process as well

Hey 'Zon...whether it stayed with him or not ~ whatdaya wanna bet the the friction burn from a line around the waist during deployment - left a bit of a 'mark'?!

Probably so... but I would not have tied it to myself... it would have been cinched up real nice like to the harness however. It may look like it was being tied to the waist... from someone not used to some of the god awful lashups I have seen... But I am betting I could tie it so no damage was done from any "friction"

[airtwardo 7]

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...and probably adding a few colorful words into the process as well

Hey 'Zon...whether it stayed with him or not ~ whatdaya wanna bet the the friction burn from a line around the waist during deployment - left a bit of a 'mark'?!

Probably so... but I would not have tied it to myself... it would have been cinched up real nice like to the harness however. It may look like it was being tied to the waist... from someone not used to some of the god awful lashups I have seen... But I am betting I could tie it so no damage was done from any "friction"

I'm with ya on that...however I can see how a wuffo might conceivably believe that attaching it to the harness might be undesirable...until opening shock that is!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 244]

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...and probably adding a few colorful words into the process as well

Hey 'Zon...whether it stayed with him or not ~ whatdaya wanna bet the the friction burn from a line around the waist during deployment - left a bit of a 'mark'?!

Probably so... but I would not have tied it to myself... it would have been cinched up real nice like to the harness however. It may look like it was being tied to the waist... from someone not used to some of the god awful lashups I have seen... But I am betting I could tie it so no damage was done from any "friction"

Im going to vote for Tina's testimony being accurate - around the waste - she had seen him try several other iterations, he ordered her forward (she was seeing too much?) - and she turned short of the curtain and
watched _ he was now tying loops "around his waste".
Before being told 'go forward' she had already seen
him 'tying several loops "around the bag"'.

If her testimony is accurate this can't be good? This
testimony and her description plays heavily in the FBI
decision to call him "dead", emphasis AFTER FBI SA's
consulted with outside experts including those in the
Boeing skydiving club ... who (believe it or not) did
some actual force calculations! (a bunch of engineers
who turn to calculations for everything, including how
many scouts we can get into three observatories in 30
mins)... I know these ornery guys personally.
We have weekly debates about which light switches
should be left on where for how many minutes etc etc
all within our budget.

Dick P. in one report says, quote: "... and his
shoes would have come off instantly ...." Concerning
the reliability of the Boeing club analysis? I do not
know. This a matter for you guys ... but 'shoes off
and a high probability of other specific physical injuries
was brought up and discussed'. Dick P. went on to
work on the fix - thew Cooper vane.

[skyjack71 0]

"You can put him in a chute, but you have to put him on the plane."

NEVER EVER tell Jo she can't do something!

1. Better DNA source.
2. Better pics for witness ID
and I don't mean just the
crew.
3. An item he had on the plane
one of a kind. Watch, coin,
mouse, picture, book or
whatever.
4. Recording of his voice
5. The man who bought the van
did NOT know the ransom was
in 20 dollar bills.
6. I have a confession.
7. The subject was MORE than
just familiar with the area.
8. A scar on his hand.
9. Wore alligator ankle boots
with zipper.


Question is HOW do I present these things?

This thread certainly can't do it and it just feeds the fodder of the wannabes and those who take my word and my memories and reproduce them as their own and part of their story.

The FBI will spend NO more monies on DNA from subjects for comparison

The FBI has kept certain things very secret and never revealed these things - SO what to do?

ONLY one option! GO forward! DO Something I said I would NEVER do, but the world thinks I am a fool and a liar - so how could it get any worse?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[MeyerLouie 5]

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MeyerLouie says...(with my responses)

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'Somehow Blevins, it's always the FBI who just never ever does quite enough to get the job done. I just can't believe the FBI is as blatantly incompetent, inconsistent, and incomplete as you think...'

Robert replies: I never said the FBI was incompent, incomplete, or inconsistent. They just haven't solved the case yet.

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'You don't think they put some serious thought and consideration into how the money ended up at Tina Bar? You thought up something before the FBI did? Don't think so, Blevins....'

Robert replies: Sure, they put thought into it. Later they said the money was probably a sign Cooper died in the jump. Agent Furhman told me that yes...my thoughts on how approximately three bundles of the ransom ended up there, and nothing else...was not discussed in 1980. He said no one at that time who was investigating the money find thought of it, and he agreed with my point that it might be evidentiary. If you don't believe me, you can contact him yourself and ask him. He also has a daughter and both of them live in the Seattle area. The Seattle FBI office will forward messages/mail to him if you ask.

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'It's possible the money was buried deeper than the shallow depth it was found....'

Robert: Tom Kaye and his team say the same. They point to the cessation of dumping dredge spoils there after 1974. The degradation of the rubber bands has to be considered, though. Could they have still been around the money after nine years, even in a crumbling state?

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'Did you and others ever think of the possibility the moneybag ended intact at Tina Bar? The bills ended up together because they spilled out of a partially damaged moneybag -- that had been buried under some sand for an extended period, that had gotten there and departed because of a flood event. BK may not be as crazy as some of you make him out to be...'

Robert: BK is the Twilight Zone. ULTRA whatever and all that. Using him for support is like using Lindsay Lohan in an anti-drug commercial. You've just stated a theory on how the money arrived, but there is no evidence (yet) to support it. No signs of the bag, no body, no briefcase, no parachute. If you say the money washed up, then how did three bundles stay together to end up in the same exact spot? If the bag landed on Tena Bar, then where's the rest of the money or any signs of the bag? There is also the matter of the flight path, of course. Current info says it wasn't over Tena Bar, unless the FBI is wrong.

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'Here's another thing: we can't prove or substantiate the exact time DBC exited 305. Some say we can nail it down pretty close because of the pressure bump. The pressure bump says he jumped real close to Ariel. But it was 377, I believe, who implied earlier, that it is conceivable, possible, that DBC could have faked the jump at Ariel. That is, DBC could have gone to the bottom of the aft stairs, jumped up and down a few times to activate the pressure gauge, then climb back up the stairs, wait several minutes, then gently step off, do a freefall from, the bottom step of the aft stairs -- gentle enough so no pressure bump was indicated...'

Robert: Crew reported that the indicator light only went OFF once during the flight, a few minutes after the door was opened. Just ONCE. This means that when it did, this was the point Cooper actually jumped. In order for the indicator light to go off, the stairs must very nearly close completely. Your scenario is like a Bouncing Betty and doesn't match the known facts. Think about what you are saying here. Hijacker out there with three screaming jet engines over his head. It's freezing out there. He has a chute and a load. Stairs up and down from his weight and airflow. You have him running around like a chicken without a head. This is really a stretch on your part. As I said, the indicator light came ON when the stairs were activated. Light only went off ONCE. Testimony from Rataczak says they knew he jumped. He said that in 1996, and later for us. Same story. He says they know WHEN he jumped, they just don't know where he LANDED.

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'Blevins, who cares if he backed down the stairs -- why do you pole vault mouse tirds? It's such a non-point...'

Robert: You are right, it's not important. I think if they do another film, they should have Cooper backing down, though. Otherwise, the actor portraying Cooper had better be a contortionist. The opening to pass through (until the stairs take his weight) was 36" or less. Might be tough to do that wearing a chute and packing a load. It's a small point, yes.

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'In any event.... if what I posit is possible -- when it really gets down to it, Cooper could have jumped anytime, anywhere during that flight -- we don't really know, do we? He could have jumped closer to Portland and the Columbia River. We heard earlier Cooper could have possibly ended up in the Villamette River, the major tributary that dumps into the Columbia River just upstream from Tina Bar (add that one to the theory list).

Robert: See above. The door indicator light only went off ONE time during the flight, and it did so north of Portland. Then it stayed ON all the way to Reno. No other pressure bumps. Just the one time. If Cooper jumped over the Columbia, then your theory about the money could conceivably hold weight. But the evidence doesn't indicate a Portland jump, but one farther north. Also...the condition of the money and rubber bands may not indicate the money was exposed to water and/or the elements for almost nine years.

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'There is some indication, however, that water was involved, possibly a great deal of water -- water from the Columbia River, to be exact -- since some of the money was found on her banks...'

Robert: You're going with the flood theory, i.e. it washed up from somewhere else because of a water fluctuation. I already answered that above. I'll agree your theory is as good as any others right now. The Citizen Sleuths don't share your theory, though. Just saying.

For the record, this is our official position on the whole thing.

__________________________________________________

Just got an answer for everything, don't you Blevins. Sometimes, some people don't have a whole lot to say, but that usually doesn't keep 'em from talking (not you, of course, Blevins).

BK is in the twilight zone? Coming from you, now that's funny. Didn't say I was a BK fan. His theory that the money ended up at Tina Bar by natural means because of a possible flood event does more to explain the condition of the T-Bar money than you and your buddies' "non-natural means" theory -- which, to me, is so unlikely and improbable. Whatever the heck "non-natural means" -- but that's another story. You, and others, just completely ignore the condition of the bills. Maybe when Cooper jumped out of 305, the wind caused the bills to become pitted, tattered, and worn. Afterall, it was a fierce wind coming out of 305. Cooper was, as Bob Seiger once said, "against the wind." Or maybe Cooper lost the moneybag in the River, then found it several years later, then took 3 packets out of the bag and buried them at Tina Bar -- just to throw us all off and get a good laugh.

Cooper running around like a chicken with its head cut off? He walks down the stairs twice and up once is hardly a chicken with its head cut off, Drama Queen.

Rataczak -- nor anybody else for that matter -- has been able to prove the exact moment Cooper actually jumped -- way north of the Columbia or otherwise -- there is no proof, it has not been substantiated. Don't think Cooper was smart enough to make us think he jumped when he really didn't? Once again, you do not know the difference between your assumptions and actual fact. If an expert says it's possible to freefall off the bottom aft stair without activating the pressure bump gauge, then that's good enough for me. Expertise comes from experience, not from how loud you can talk.

MeyerLouie

[Amazon 7]

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...and probably adding a few colorful words into the process as well

Hey 'Zon...whether it stayed with him or not ~ whatdaya wanna bet the the friction burn from a line around the waist during deployment - left a bit of a 'mark'?!

Probably so... but I would not have tied it to myself... it would have been cinched up real nice like to the harness however. It may look like it was being tied to the waist... from someone not used to some of the god awful lashups I have seen... But I am betting I could tie it so no damage was done from any "friction"

Im going to vote for Tina's testimony being accurate - around the waste - she had seen him try several other iterations, he ordered her forward (she was seeing too much?) - and she turned short of the curtain and
watched _ he was now tying loops "around his waste".
Before being told 'go forward' she had already seen
him 'tying several loops "around the bag"'.

If her testimony is accurate this can't be good? This
testimony and her description plays heavily in the FBI
decision to call him "dead", emphasis AFTER FBI SA's
consulted with outside experts including those in the
Boeing skydiving club ... who (believe it or not) did
some actual force calculations! (a bunch of engineers
who turn to calculations for everything, including how
many scouts we can get into three observatories in 30
mins)... I know these ornery guys personally.
We have weekly debates about which light switches
should be left on where for how many minutes etc etc
all within our budget.

Dick P. in one report says, quote: "... and his
shoes would have come off instantly ...." Concerning
the reliability of the Boeing club analysis? I do not
know. This a matter for you guys ... but 'shoes off
and a high probability of other specific physical injuries
was brought up and discussed'. Dick P. went on to
work on the fix - thew Cooper vane.



Yeah... I remember those kind of guys... jumping in anything other than French Jump Boots was DEATH INCARNATE... kinda like them thar DEATH WOODS. Yeah yeah yeah.. I started out in those padded pieces of shit too and did a lot of jumps in my Corcoran Jump boots as well but I gave all those up for a nice pair of comfy tenny runners within a couple years when all the cool kids started doing that in the mid 70's... Damn hippies.. changed the sport a lot at that time.. All the French Jump Boot crewcut military guys got fairly scarce around most of the DZ's I was jumping at.

[mrshutter45 21]

"Excuse me, but what experience do you speak of here? There is no 'pressure bump gauge"

um, yes there is....but it's not called a "pressure Bump Gauge"


care to take a crack at it?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[propblast 0]

I know nothing about that panel.

But, I have jumped with many a load and can tell you that lowering line is made of much wider ( 1/2 inch tubular nylon webbing) material than the suspension lines Cooper used. Additionally, that harness has a single point release which involves metal releases, buckles and friction adapters. ( Older harness involved two releases) It would have been a helluva rig job to do that with suspension lines and expect it to stay attached.

Propblast