snowmman 3
ltdiver 3
Quoteltdiver. I see your points. But isn't it likely the passengers were debriefed before they were released to an area where the press was?
I had, of course, considered this angle. And perhaps they were. However, it's spoken about as if this was the entry point directly from 305 and the tarmac.
Wonder if any of the true passengers were ever interviewed by the press...
ltdiver
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
QuoteI had, of course, considered this angle. And perhaps they were. However, it's spoken about as if this was the entry point directly from 305 and the tarmac.
Wonder if any of the true passengers were ever interviewed by the press...
ltdiver
Okay,
I tried to stay out of this…. But it’s just against my nature.
The time stamp on the Cronkite Video doesn’t mean squat!
What you are seeing is a FILM taken off a kinescope for archival purposes.
The time stamp was created by a rotating light wheel and projected on the kinescope screen while the film was being made. The time displayed could be GMT, PST, EST, CST, MST or any other time, AM or PM. It could represent the time it was broadcast or the time it was being archived. I’m just guessing that at sometime later the film was projected onto a shadowbox and put on 1-inch video-tape and then later to a video file.
If you’ll notice the time stamp rolls over twice or three times throughout the video. It doesn’t change when they switch from Seattle to Reno. That is pretty good evidence that the time-stamp has nothing to do with the time it was filmed.
Ltdiver, I have no idea how old you are, and I surely don’t want to sound like I’m talking down to you, but I’m guessing you haven’t looked at this video and tried to interpret it with your 1971 “Culture Goggles” on.
In 1971, the newscast anchored by Walter Cronkite (one of the most trusted men in America) would not use “File Footage” without labeling it as such. [ Remember Johnson’s comment about the Viet Nam War: “My God… If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost America”]
There were no satellites, internet, or any other way to get news around the world other than making film and one-inch tape and sending them out by courier.
The date and time stamped onto that video meant something to someone. But, for right now, for the purpose of trying to find DB Cooper, it just doesn’t mean squat.
I don’t know if the video was taken when they entered the terminal from the busses, after they had been debriefed, or when they were boarding a plane to their destination. But it was taken and it was broadcast on Thursday the 25th of November 1971 (because Cronkite says “last night”). I’m pretty sure those are real Flight 305 passengers.
I am curious why this has generated so much discussion? (That’s an honest question.)
Sluggo_Monster
EDIT: Remember, If it's physical... it's therapy!
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snowmman 3
QuoteI am curious why this has generated so much discussion? (That’s an honest question.)
I started it with my collage from the video. I was thinking that people have said things like "everyone looked like Cooper" or that people dressed like Cooper when they flew. But that's not true and the collage shows it to some degree.
One guy had a cowboy hat.
not all had raincoats.
All the ties I saw were wide-ish? One guy had a bolo tie. Also striped ties.
Hey you want to see a comparison between today and 1971? Attached is a photo of FBI sniper at this Kennedy/LaGuardia hijack in July 1971. Notice how casually dressed/adhoc the sniper setup is. N8733 indicates it's the 707 at JFK.
I think Cooper learned a lot from hijacks of the era. If we acknowledge that, he doesn't seem so smart/unique?
See, the point is, in 1971 they were shooting hijackers. Think about that, and the jump is obviously just a small part of the overall risk. And you can see maybe why Cooper decided 'no gun'.
Interesting things about this 7/24/71 hijack
1) Hijacker had gun. Threatened stewardess. Shot by FBI sniper while outside plane.
2) Unemployed airline mechanic. He was nervous
3) Note that metal detectors existed in July 1971 at LaGuardia at least, although this guy's gun got by.
4) Interestingly there was also another hijack to Cuba from Miami that weekend, where the hijacker shot a stewardess and passenger. They lived (Bond, Evans)
5) history of mental illness?
6) He did it locally. name Richard Allen Obergfell. 26 years old. From Passaic, NJ.
Sorry about disjointed text...just snippets from assorted news articles.
July 24, 1971, Saturday
A hijacker with a gun at the back of a terrified stewardess was shot and killed on a Kennedy Airport runway yesterday as he moved toward a Trans World Airlines jet he had ordered for a flight to Milan, Italy, his second air piracy of the day.
The man who hijacked a Trans World Airlines jetliner at La Guardia Airport yesterday had aroused the suspicions of airline employees enough to make them search a small bag he was carrying aboard the plane. But no weapon was found, so the line's agents let him board the aircraft.
The airline officials were warned by a signal from a metal-sensing antihijacking device that had searched a bag he was carrying. ..
TWA employes searched they had found several harmless metal items in Obergfell's bag ...
A thin, long-haired man in an orange shirt turned a Trans World Airlines transcontinental jet back to Laguardia Field at gunpoint Friday, then commandeered a truck that took him tq Kennedy Airport.
A nervous, neatly dressed man armed with a gun ...
Two rifle shots fired by an FBI agent felled the hijacker, who was using a Trans World Airlines stewardess as a hostage.
As they talked got off two quick shots from a rifle with telescopic sight. He caught the hijacker once in the abdomen, once in the back. Obergfeld was dead on arrival at a hospital...
The hijacker who was shot and killed at Kennedy Airport Friday as he attempted his second air piracy of the day had a history of mental illness for which he had been treated as recently as the last few weeks, sources close to the investigation said yesterday.
Hijacker 'very nervous' Stewardess not afraid --'until I heard shots'
Idie Maria Concepcion, the stewardess held hostage in the attempted Hijacking to Italy Friday, said she was not afraid during her ordeal until she heard the shots that killed the Hijacker. "I thought I was shot." the 21-year-old TWA stewardess said. She said she and the hijacker were standing alone near the TWA 707 jetliner, which was being prepared to take them to Milan.
Jobless Airline Mechanic Shot To Death In Hijacking, Tripped Alarm At LaGuardia
A man who fit a "hijacking behavior profile" but passed an airport security check pirated an airliner and a truck Friday, then was shot to death holding a hostage stewardess as he walked toward a jet for a .
georger 256
QuoteQuoteI had, of course, considered this angle. And perhaps they were. However, it's spoken about as if this was the entry point directly from 305 and the tarmac.
Wonder if any of the true passengers were ever interviewed by the press...
ltdiver
REPLY> This came up in the context of Duane
Weber being identified? as one of the passengers
on the CBS footage.
I guess the thought is if Weber was there then that is
the source of his compulsion or involvement?
Okay,
I tried to stay out of this…. But it’s just against my nature.
The time stamp on the Cronkite Video doesn’t mean squat!
What you are seeing is a FILM taken off a kinescope for archival purposes.
The time stamp was created by a rotating light wheel and projected on the kinescope screen while the film was being made. The time displayed could be GMT, PST, EST, CST, MST or any other time, AM or PM. It could represent the time it was broadcast or the time it was being archived. I’m just guessing that at sometime later the film was projected onto a shadowbox and put on 1-inch video-tape and then later to a video file.
If you’ll notice the time stamp rolls over twice or three times throughout the video. It doesn’t change when they switch from Seattle to Reno. That is pretty good evidence that the time-stamp has nothing to do with the time it was filmed.
Ltdiver, I have no idea how old you are, and I surely don’t want to sound like I’m talking down to you, but I’m guessing you haven’t looked at this video and tried to interpret it with your 1971 “Culture Goggles” on.
In 1971, the newscast anchored by Walter Cronkite (one of the most trusted men in America) would not use “File Footage” without labeling it as such. [ Remember Johnson’s comment about the Viet Nam War: “My God… If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost America”]
There were no satellites, internet, or any other way to get news around the world other than making film and one-inch tape and sending them out by courier.
The date and time stamped onto that video meant something to someone. But, for right now, for the purpose of trying to find DB Cooper, it just doesn’t mean squat.
I don’t know if the video was taken when they entered the terminal from the busses, after they had been debriefed, or when they were boarding a plane to their destination. But it was taken and it was broadcast on Thursday the 25th of November 1971 (because Cronkite says “last night”). I’m pretty sure those are real Flight 305 passengers.
I am curious why this has generated so much discussion? (That’s an honest question.)
Sluggo_Monster
EDIT: Remember, If it's physical... it's therapy!
ltdiver. I see your points. But isn't it likely the passengers were debriefed before they were released to an area where the press was?
And you saw the still photo of the passengers taken by someone else (it's taken from a different angle).
I find it hard to believe some news org. would video random non-associated passengers for a long shot (enough to count 15 individual passengers) and a still photographer would get the same shot.
I've attached the still photo and crop of the montage, so you can see they're of the same people (passenger 6-8)
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