DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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Did Duane ever attempt to forge US currency and do
you have any of it?

We could compare his $20 with Ingram's and the FBI's money.

The only thing Duane ever forged was a name on a check or a charge card - evidently since he supposedly was ONLY a thief who robbed hotels, motels, military wives in Bars with their Gov cks! Bar Pick-ups is what I call them and they got what they deserved for running around on their military husbands.

I do NOT justify the actions of Weber and I have NEVER been told the extent of the crimes he committed. Wonder WHY?

Where are the records and did he have court trials or just appear infront of a judge because he was Bad Conduct discharge and Undesirable. IF Weber had NOT gotten a BAD deal to begin with - he might have been able to have made something out of himself early on. He actually had what it took - as he did prove to himself much later in life....I think he had a lot of good guys on his side at times. Such as our old friend.

What the hell could he have done had he received the breaks they give kids today?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

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Georger says in part:

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'If a plant, why not a forgery too! Blevins
expansion theory no. 464548464447456

Vicki's Dad!

The short dark stranger who knew KC and Geestman.
The Clydesdale trainer.

Yakety Yak and all that Jack.

This adds another FBI screwup Blevins can advertise.
FBI failed to examine the money for being a forgery!
Whoopteedoo! Here we go again....'

I see from your recent posts you've been hard at work contributing in a positive way to the discussion.

Well, sort of.

Well, you doth protest too much!

The theory is tailor made for you - even Jo thought so.
See Jo Weber reply. The theory is easily as good as
any theory you have ever come up with, on any subject
here.

Moreover, it's exactly the type of theory you would up
with.

Don't protest if your own theory making technique
comes up and greets you, unexpectedly, in print. Ten
days ago you would have been arguing the same
lines, except I came up with it first, modeling you.

Keep in mind Blevins, I am only one of your "wage
earner sheeple". I had a stroke of brilliance.

Don't be jealous! Yakety yak don't talk back. A year
from now you will be claiming the theory was yours.

How's your Titanic revisionist makeover going?

[georger 244]

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Quote

Did Duane ever attempt to forge US currency and do
you have any of it?

We could compare his $20 with Ingram's and the FBI's money.

The only thing Duane ever forged was a name on a check or a charge card - evidently since he supposedly was ONLY a thief who robbed hotels, motels, military wives in Bars with their Gov cks! Bar Pick-ups is what I call them and they got what they deserved for running around on their military husbands.

I do NOT justify the actions of Weber and I have NEVER been told the extent of the crimes he committed. Wonder WHY?

Where are the records and did he have court trials or just appear infront of a judge because he was Bad Conduct discharge and Undesirable. IF Weber had NOT gotten a BAD deal to begin with - he might have been able to have made something out of himself early on. He actually had what it took - as he did prove to himself much later in life....I think he had a lot of good guys on his side at times. Such as our old friend.

What the hell could he have done had he received the breaks they give kids today?

Of course Duane never thought about or tried to forge
money.

Blevins would have said it first if he had thought of it!
I'll bet he's thinking about it now. He knows a
plant when he sees one

[MeyerLouie 5]

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Meyer Louie says in part:

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'The money fell out of the sky to that location: it must have been some fierce wind on the jump then, to cause all those bills to get so tattered and worn. Maybe the actual impact of the money bag caused that blackened, oval-shape, tattered-look on all of them thar bills...'

Hold on thar, pardner. I didn't say the money fell out of the sky. I said it can't be proven HOW the money arrived at Tena Bar.

__________________________________________________

Bullshit, Blevins. Read your own words! You said it was possible the money fell out of the sky or it was a plant.

You said: "The money does NOT, because it cannot be established for certain that this money fell out of the sky to that location. You cannot say that without being able to prove that's how it arrived there. It could have been a plant. Either is possible."

How does that jive with "I didn't say the money fell out of the sky. I said it can't be proven HOW the money arrived at Tena Bar."


Here comes some more of your double talk, Blevins:

If you discount dredging and washdown, I pointed out this leaves only two possibilities:

1) Fell from the sky on the way down.

2) Planted by human hands.

You are way off-base here and obviously didn't see some of my previous posts on this.

_________________________________________________

You're way off base, thar pardner. You can't even keep consistent in your current posts! Unbelievable!

MeyerLouie_________________________________________________


Concerning number one possibility, (fell from sky) I think you can discount the idea of loose bill packets. This is because at least three bundles of the cash were found in the same spot. So this would mean the entire bag had to land somewhere in the vicinity, and the only thing remaining by 1980, somehow or other, were the loose packets found. But this also begs the question on WHY nothing else was found. Again...no parachutes, briefcase, body, other money, money bag, clothing scraps, paracord pieces, NOTHING. Why is that? I speculated that maybe Cooper went into the river separated from the bag and the bag ended up on land, while he did the Big Splash.

On the second possibility, Planting: We know Cooper offered a portion of the money to Mucklow, so that negates the idea he might be unwilling to part with some of the money to throw off the cops.

Maybe it's a plant. But there is no proof of that, either. How could you prove it was a plant beyond a reasonable doubt? Well...I gave one scenario, and that was if someone finds a piece of evidence AWAY from the where the money was found. Like the parachute, or the briefcase, or anything that can be definitively, without question, linked to the hijacker. Say in the Ariel, Amboy, or Merwin Lake area. Or even further south, as some believe, as long as it wasn't west of the interstate. In this event, it would be absolutely impossible for the Tena Bar money to be attributed to a fall, or to have arrived at its location by accident. In other words, it would certainly be a plant.

The real trouble with all of this is the lack of additional evidence, both at Tena Bar, and anywhere else Cooper might have landed. You have the placard falling off a plane along the flight path. You have the Tena Bar money found a full FIVE MILES to the west of Interstate 5, and most sources agree that the flight path of the jet was NOT west of Interstate 5?

So how do you reconcile these things? Well, some have suggested the official report of the flight path is wrong. Fine. I say prove it. Tom Kaye and his team seem to believe the flight path is correct. The truth is, you can't reconcile it unless new evidence emerges, and that evidence would probably take one of two forms:

A) Flight path is proven INCORRECT, and 305 was actually WEST of Interstate 5 at the time of Cooper's jump.

B) An additional piece of evidence is found that can be linked to Cooper, either near Tena Bar, or close to the 'official' flight path. It would actually be better, in my opinion, to find something along the flight path, because this would answer two questions at the same time, i.e. whether Cooper survived, and whether the money was a plant.

Example: Someone discovers the briefcase in the woods in the Ariel/Amboy area. Extrapolation you can obtain from this evidence:

1) The money on Tena Bar was a plant.
2) Cooper survived the jump, since you need a live person to do a plant.

Without any additional evidence, the Tena Bar money remains a mystery. That's my opinion on it, anyway. One more key is needed to open the information vault, as it were. That key has not yet been discovered. One bright spot: Robert99 and MrShutter are researching the flight path, and I am interested to see what their results turn out to be.

_________________________________________________

Like I said earlier, not having a whole to say doesn't usually keep you from talking. Would've, could've, may have if new evidence is found. New evidence has not been found, and I'm sure when new evidence is found, there will others more qualified than you to analyze it.

MeyerLouie

[MeyerLouie 5]

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I'm attaching some completely unscientific maps showing a rough demo on what the problem is with the Tena Bar money.

Basically, the placard and the available data shows the plane was headed probably SSE as it passed over the Merwin Lake area. For the flight to end up west of Interstate 5 by more than four miles, the flight would have to take a pretty good turn to the west...and then later back to SSE to continue on to Reno.

As I said...totally unscientific. But it does give a general picture of what I mean.

MrShutter: Bill Rataczak has stated several times that they know WHEN Cooper jumped, they just don't know where he landed.

"SSE as it passed over the Merwin Lake area"

you need to look at the flight path again!
Rataczak stated he knows when Cooper jumped. we have a time frame and a questionable path.
they base it on the time frames of the path and when the pilot reported the pressure bump. they
think they have the area where he jumped, only if the path is correct. if the path is incorrect, then
when he jumped doesn't matter does it?

your map is a very bad example....sorry.

__________________________________________________

That map is about as unscientific and bad as it gets. Maybe Blevins, just maybe, it might be better to try to be a bit more rigorous in you analysis and conclusions. Geeez!

MeyerLouie

[airtwardo 7]

You obsession is creepy and disturbing - seek help, seriously...something unhealthy going on there.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 244]

Here comes some more of your double talk, Blevins:

MeyerLouie

That pretty much covers it. Add the arrogance +
hostility + venom and ..... well, what he wants is a
free ride and about 10 people leaving Dropzone to
have it all to himself as another Newsvine. It
probably will never work out that way.. at some point
even Airtwardo would get ancy and growl ..

Two other aspects drive me nuts!

#1: he literally cannot stand other good options being
offered. He immediately goes on the attack. This
indicates both a lack of intelligence AND some kind of
"I'm running this forum" mentality.

He poo-hooed "ppd" last night. Then he is told the
owner and Moderator control that (collection of stats).
He went stone silent! He compared "ppd" to "catshit"
but when told the owner and mods of this site collect
that "catshit", he went stone silent. He has no
hesitation about offending-attacking posters, but he
won;t knowingly offend-attack a Mod or the owner.
I thought all of that was pretty funny!

#2. It doesn't seem to be "in" the poster to be
creative at all. Moreover he clearly envies and has a
dislike of other who are creative, or can be. The
poster does not trust them, he has said!

#3 His repetitions of the same material over and
over have become his archetype and flag.

He then attacks me for not posting NEW material.

Send me a nice check Blevins and I will give you some NEW factual material.

[georger 244]

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You obsession is creepy and disturbing - seek help, seriously...something unhealthy going on there.

OK my good man.

I think in English it should be: "Your" obsession, not
"You obsession", unless you are calling me a name ?

[georger 244]

I go with the official version of the radar map. .

Then why do you accept the FBI's map, but do not accept
the FBI's word on the Amboy parachute?

Meyer said you cherry-pick. Isnt that an example of
cherry-picking?

You literally have no more proof of the map than you
do the parachute! And yet you accept the map for
some reason, but not the parachute.

How do you decide between the two?

You believe the FBI on the map, but not on the
parachute.



And WHY do you keep making the same exact posts
about these matters over and over ad nauseum?
We aren't stupid with no memory!

[MeyerLouie 5]

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Robert99 wrote

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Basically, the money find indicates that it was in the bag and tied to Cooper on ground contact (cratered would be a better word).

I prefer a more optimistic interpretation. No crater. DBC lands alive and escapes.

A cratered jumper would probably have been found by now. Georger made a convincing presentation about how unlikely a river landing would have been.

Unfortunately my Cooper twenty has no clues as to vertical speed at the time of landing. It just stares at me and says nothing. Maybe Bruce could conjur up its past but I can't.

377

Not a joke: Ever thought about letting a psychic take a look at the bill? I never believed in psychics until I met a lady named Mary down in Vancouver. She could find lost keys, anything I hid from her, she found right away. The bad part was when she would take hold of your hand. You couldn't keep any secrets from the old bi#*ch. No kidding.
I asked her once how long I was going to live. This was back in 1982. She says: "You will live long enough to see people landing on Mars..." I never told her I wrote sci-fi, either. I got the idea that was going to be about it, too. Now I hope they don't go for a while yet. I'd give you her address, but she died some years ago.

__________________________________________________

Blevins, go ahead give us her address. Afterall, she's psychic, so she should still be able to communicate with us from where she currently is.

A psychic, Blevins? It's amazing you told us you consulted a psychic in the first place. Even more amazing, you told us, the whole world, the many revelations she imparted to you. I'd say Blevins...and I don't think I'm going out on a limb here.... simply put, that's TMI -- too much information.

Have you completely gone off your rocker? You're aware this is a professional forum, not one where you come to check your horoscope, get your palms read (vs. red), and consult a psychic.

I have a suggestion: Google on 'psychics.' I'm sure there are plenty of chat rooms and web sites on the subject. Go to their forums, share your happy horseshit. Doing that here only makes you look more foolish and less credible than you already are.

MeyerLouie

[georger 244]

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Quote

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Robert99 wrote

Quote

Basically, the money find indicates that it was in the bag and tied to Cooper on ground contact (cratered would be a better word).

I prefer a more optimistic interpretation. No crater. DBC lands alive and escapes.

A cratered jumper would probably have been found by now. Georger made a convincing presentation about how unlikely a river landing would have been.

Unfortunately my Cooper twenty has no clues as to vertical speed at the time of landing. It just stares at me and says nothing. Maybe Bruce could conjur up its past but I can't.

377

Not a joke: Ever thought about letting a psychic take a look at the bill? I never believed in psychics until I met a lady named Mary down in Vancouver. She could find lost keys, anything I hid from her, she found right away. The bad part was when she would take hold of your hand. You couldn't keep any secrets from the old bi#*ch. No kidding.
I asked her once how long I was going to live. This was back in 1982. She says: "You will live long enough to see people landing on Mars..." I never told her I wrote sci-fi, either. I got the idea that was going to be about it, too. Now I hope they don't go for a while yet. I'd give you her address, but she died some years ago.

__________________________________________________

Blevins, go ahead give us her address. Afterall, she's psychic, so she should still be able to communicate with us from where she currently is.

A psychic, Blevins? It's amazing you told us you consulted a psychic in the first place. Even more amazing, you told us, the whole world, the many revelations she imparted to you. I'd say Blevins...and I don't think I'm going out on a limb here.... simply put, that's TMI -- too much information.

Have you completely gone off your rocker? You're aware this is a professional forum, not one where you come to check your horoscope, get your palms read (vs. red), and consult a psychic.

I have a suggestion: Google on 'psychics.' I'm sure there are plenty of chat rooms and web sites on the subject. Go to their forums, share your happy horseshit. Doing that here only makes you look more foolish and less credible than you already are.

MeyerLouie

I wonder what this means?

[airtwardo 7]

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[MeyerLouie 5]

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Oh, I trust science to a certain degree. Especially on the good things. Like Pasteur or Fleming.

Inventing the atom bomb, that's another story.

As far as Mary, my very good friend the psychic, she was the mother of my then-girlfriend in Vancouver. And my girlfriend and I rented a big house there back in the early 80's. Mom dropped by sometimes and then it got interesting. I would play games and test her. She always won. My girlfriend was a former model and we had a lot of fun during our time together. I don't regret a moment of it.

Never apologize for your past unless there's a reason.

Just go with it as long as it isn't evil.

__________________________________________________

Blevins, the more you talk, the more you are making a total fool of yourself. It's too much information! Stop already! Who cares? You take up almost 25% of the air time on this forum, so much of it on irrelevant, ridiculous, non-DB Cooper, who-gives-a-shit kind of information like this post.

However, since you brought it up -- most secure guys don't talk about the models they used to date or dare mention to the world the psychics they used to consult (however, her daughter was a model, so I'm bettin' Mary was a looker too, maybe even moreso than Marla....I always hated when that happened -- I didn't who was hotter or who I was more attracted to -- the daughter or the mother).

Why don't you quit while you're way behind? You've reached a new low, Blevins. I thought it wasn't possible, but here you are.

MeyerLouie

[mrshutter45 21]

Amazing mind reader reveals his 'gift'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=F7pYHN9iC9I

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

"Robert99 and Shutter are working on this,"

you are leaving a key person out of this. Hominid.

" Don't assume they were stupid, although they could have made mistakes."

do me a favor and look at the flight path time frames, now look at
the 20:03 position and then what time frame follows that? we have
known "mistakes" already on the map.

nobody is claiming that anyone is stupid. this project is not designed to make
anyone look stupid.

****************READ CAREFULLY****************

I have a flight simulator that has been tested in the following manor.

#1 I ran tests on the altitude and it passed.
#2 I ran tests on distances and it passed.
#3 Hominid put me thru a series of speed tests. it passed.
#4 I ran tests on how the plane reacts to different flap settings. gear up/gear down.


I have been able to take the 727-100 up to 7,000 at a speed of 160 KIAS
with flaps at 30 degree's & gear down having a fuel flow of 4500 to 4800

10,000 at a speed of about 175 KIAS flaps at 15, head wind of 24 knots &
fuel flow of about 4300.

after reading information Robert99 gave me, I ran another test to the maylay
intersection, it read 63 NM (doesn't show 63.5)

I have the best known weather system which will input winds aloft,
interpolation, direction, temps, barometrics, wind shear,turbulence etc. etc.

it appears to me that I have a system well enough to fly the path with the
known information I have. the project is designed to see if the path can be
flown the way they present it. if it can not be flown this way, we have the
first step in resolving the problems. it's designed to try and verify, not to
make someone look stupid!

"don't assume they were stupid" is certainly a factor several posters need
to understand about the FBI.........

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[JerryThomas 0]

MeyerLouie. The money found at Tinas bar was not a plant it is a well known fact that it floated there. Clarity Time: Sorry its taken so long to get back to dropzone. The search area that I wish to consentrate on is the Washougal water shed.Remember the Army Corps of Engineers had determined that the money path to tinas bar was by floating down one of the washougal tributaries to the columbia river.I was contacted last night by a producer from london that wishes to do a documentary this summer during a search, all of you that wish to join are welcome.What the actual search will be for is the chute.Those of you that have experience in the woods will be a valuable asset. Especially those with search and rescue experience.Georger I will also need your assistance.ML you Bruce, Georger and Blevins please try and contact me today and I'll fill you in. Jo as it apears that the only reason you are on dropzone is for the attention Im mentioning you in this post so you won't feel left out. Jo please stop telling the lie that I mis led you or lied to you in any way you no I haven't. Jerry PS Amazon my prayers are with you.

[georger 244]

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Oh, I trust science to a certain degree. Especially on the good things. Like Pasteur or Fleming.

Inventing the atom bomb, that's another story.

As far as Mary, my very good friend the psychic, she was the mother of my then-girlfriend in Vancouver. And my girlfriend and I rented a big house there back in the early 80's. Mom dropped by sometimes and then it got interesting. I would play games and test her. She always won. My girlfriend was a former model and we had a lot of fun during our time together. I don't regret a moment of it.

Never apologize for your past unless there's a reason.

Just go with it as long as it isn't evil.

Oh really! ? The Great Blevini !

Mm. Mmmm mm. Mmmm mmmmmmmb, mm.

What am I saying ?

Are you on a Magician-Psychik Watch List?

My girlfriend was a former model too! 1934 Ford.

[Robert99 50]

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I said that the placard DID help establish the flight path of the jet, but that the money found at Tena Bar does not necessarily do the same.

Why: Because it's reasonable to assume the placard flew off after the stairs were opened, but you can't say the same for the Tena Bar money.

Blevins, If the money didn't separate from the aircraft AFTER the stairs were opened, then please explain to the rest of us bozos how it separated from the aircraft BEFORE the stairs were opened. Or did it separate from the aircraft at all?

Also, glad that you got a laugh out of the take off time question, but that time would be very useful in determining the flight path.

Robert99

[377 22]

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I have a flight simulator that has been tested in the following manor.

#1 I ran tests on the altitude and it passed.
#2 I ran tests on distances and it passed.
#3 Hominid put me thru a series of speed tests. it passed.
#4 I ran tests on how the plane reacts to different flap settings. gear up/gear down.


I have been able to take the 727-100 up to 7,000 at a speed of 160 KIAS
with flaps at 30 degree's & gear down having a fuel flow of 4500 to 4800

10,000 at a speed of about 175 KIAS flaps at 15, head wind of 24 knots &
fuel flow of about 4300.

after reading information Robert99 gave me, I ran another test to the maylay
intersection, it read 63 NM (doesn't show 63.5)

I have the best known weather system which will input winds aloft,
interpolation, direction, temps, barometrics, wind shear,turbulence etc. etc.

it appears to me that I have a system well enough to fly the path with the
known information I have. the project is designed to see if the path can be
flown the way they present it. if it can not be flown this way, we have the
first step in resolving the problems. it's designed to try and verify, not to
make someone look stupid!

Really appreciate your work on this Mr. Shutter. Static Line Intreractive has a pretty good canopy flight simulator. I wonder if you could incorporate a simple drift model for a canopy into your flight sim? Or run one separately using starting points on your flight path? You could try different opening altitudes, estimated rate of descent for a C9 or similar round canopy with no steering vents. To the extent you have good winds aloft data, you could get a range of landing areas. You could also estimate where a no pull DBC might have impacted.

Wouldnt it be a hoot if the Tena Bar money was counterfeit? I don't think it is but I had never even considered the possibility.

I hope it isnt counterfeit. Buying a Cooper twenty is foolish enough but paying big bucks for a fake would be embarassing. [;)

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

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You could also estimate where a no pull DBC might have impacted.

377

For a no pull situation from 10,000 ASL, and with the winds aloft that existed in the Portland area for the night of the hijacking, and assuming the airliner was in stable flight when he separated, DBC would travel not more than about 2500 feet down the airliner track and not more than about 1000 feet perpendicular to the airliner track.

He would be on the ground in about 40 seconds for a stable head down position for the fall. If tumbling, which is more likely, he would be on the ground in not more than 60 seconds.

From the above, and assuming he had the money bag tied to him all the way down, Cooper could have been over or on the west side of the Columbia River in the Tena Bar area when he separated from the airliner.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

Thanks 377, Microsoft has a jump simulator you can put into the system. I don't know how accurate it is though.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Tsofl7bls

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

did you ever get a hold of Rataczak?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MeyerLouie 5]

Quote

MeyerLouie. The money found at Tinas bar was not a plant it is a well known fact that it floated there. Clarity Time: Sorry its taken so long to get back to dropzone. The search area that I wish to consentrate on is the Washougal water shed.Remember the Army Corps of Engineers had determined that the money path to tinas bar was by floating down one of the washougal tributaries to the columbia river.I was contacted last night by a producer from london that wishes to do a documentary this summer during a search, all of you that wish to join are welcome.What the actual search will be for is the chute.Those of you that have experience in the woods will be a valuable asset. Especially those with search and rescue experience.Georger I will also need your assistance.ML you Bruce, Georger and Blevins please try and contact me today and I'll fill you in. Jo as it apears that the only reason you are on dropzone is for the attention Im mentioning you in this post so you won't feel left out. Jo please stop telling the lie that I mis led you or lied to you in any way you no I haven't. Jerry PS Amazon my prayers are with you.

_________________________________________________

I'm in Jerry, see my PM. MeyerLouie

[MeyerLouie 5]

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Did Duane ever attempt to forge US currency and do
you have any of it?

We could compare his $20 with Ingram's and the FBI's money.

The only thing Duane ever forged was a name on a check or a charge card - evidently since he supposedly was ONLY a thief who robbed hotels, motels, military wives in Bars with their Gov cks! Bar Pick-ups is what I call them and they got what they deserved for running around on their military husbands.

I do NOT justify the actions of Weber and I have NEVER been told the extent of the crimes he committed. Wonder WHY?

Where are the records and did he have court trials or just appear infront of a judge because he was Bad Conduct discharge and Undesirable. IF Weber had NOT gotten a BAD deal to begin with - he might have been able to have made something out of himself early on. He actually had what it took - as he did prove to himself much later in life....I think he had a lot of good guys on his side at times. Such as our old friend.

What the hell could he have done had he received the breaks they give kids today?

_________________________________________________

Jo:

Duane had every break anyone else ever had. Each and every time, he had a choice. Too often, he made a conscious decision, on his own, to break the law. No one forced him to do, or not do, anything. It's good he finally turned things around, but saying he didn't have the same breaks as kids do today just isn't true. It's an excuse.

Some people come from a very tough, bad, sad upbringing and turn out to be successful, contributing members of society. Others come from priviledge, money, and opportunity and turn out to be despicable scumbags. We all know some from each group, don't we?

Duane did what he because he chose to, plain and simple.

MeyerLouie

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins stated

Quote

Maybe it WAS a bit south and closer to Battleground/Orchards area. I think someone needs to speak to Bill Rataczak. For those who don't know, Rataczak has been researching the case over the years, too. He told Porteous something about this when Porteous interviewed him. So...you would figure by now he has his own map with a mark on it that says 'Cooper jumped HERE'.

The co-pilot indicated to me something of that same nature, but NOT going to pull the notes I made from that call. I have MORE than one notation - East of Battleground and North of Battleground. Not too far from Heission. There is an area NORTH and EAST of Amboy that had 2 sitings of supposedly Cooper on the ground...FBI just ignored them.

The tower that was there 1971 and was not there 1979 was NOT too far away from Heisson - but East of Heisson. I don't think that is the area Cooper jumped into, but a direction he headed to when he got on the ground.

If the sitings north and east of there are reliable he was on the ground not too from from Yale Dam (I do find that one hard to believe but the women have been consistent and insistent). They think he crossed a logging truck bridge near Swift and headed for the rails that took him to the cars at Chelatchie where he either jumped a train or Rail Jacked a pump car that went to Yacoult.

I also believe Cooper did use a pump car or jumped a freight but that could have been near the VERY area they thought Cooper could have landed. Near the N.E. Yale Bridge Rd. (Not giving the exact location they told me - just putting you in a vicinity).

Both theories have good points based on things Duane told me about the area and the fact he talked about the Rails and the curves into the Yacolt and the fact that the rails go right to the place he took me where there used to be a tower that was not there in 1979.

those rails go to Moulton Falls and then head back west to the Lucial Falls Rd.

I think he jump the cars in the Lucia Falls Rd area because perhaps there was a crossing (came back to make and insertion - he did MENTION a Cross, but I do not remember at what point he did this). He was familiar with and knew the area well enough to get his bearings and stow away whatever he was carrying.

Things Duane said - "go right back at them". He told about the train and rails and Yalcoult and Moulton falls and he took me to Heission. He mentions how scary those rails were - strange comment unless he was in freight car. Who in those days who traveled that route by passenger????????? I have never been able to research this!

He talked about the Pump Cars!

Things Duane said and told me about the area without mentioning Cooper - are all RIGHT here.

Frankly I think he got some rest at that tower that was there in 1971 and not there in 1979. He hid something behind the shed.

Talked about being able to see a tower light - but I do NOT know it if was north or south. In that area the road loops and depending on how one goes in the loop - you would have the same senario he described - both NORTH and SOUTH at that point.

I believe JT knew exactly the area I was describing and it is possible he did find the place and retrieved something to PLANT in an area - he wanted it to be in. Some individuals are just sick enough or so fearful of being made out to look badly that they will do all they can to make themselves look good and save face. When I was describing all of this to JT before 2000, I did NOT have any MAPS and I did NOT acquire this map until 2010 on my trip out there and after I got back the 2 ladies sent me another map.

Maps sure do bring everything together! Wonder why JT did NOT provide me with these maps?

Since JT denied so many of the places I have spoke about such as Green Mountian - I DO NOT trust him. I would never turn my back on him (why I AM BEING SO EXPLICT IN THIS POST OR TRYING TO BE).

This is the 1st time I have spelled out this much, but it is time to do so.

How did he escape - go back to the story I told when I first started. He knew the area and wanted to get away from the places they might search - so twice he went back at them - but, his immediate goal was to go South to places he knew he could find refuge.

He got back on the rails and then jumped at the pipeline. After that he was ON foot. He knew that area very well - places to hide and to find food. He made it to the point of Green Mt.
There is a signal tower there now, but in 1971 - it was just that strange looking place I have and did describe to JT - the tall dark (in 1979) trees and the boulder and the fence and the gate. The mountain/hill JT denied and has REFUSED to even admit did exist and does exist!

At this site - he told me where the power lines went and how you could get to the Marina from there - NOW that is ODD!

It think this was yet another night of refuge - because the caretakers place for the Ledbetter Properties was not very far from that point. (No ONE ever tried to find out who the CARETAKER was at the Ledbetter properties). The FBI sure never made an effort to find out who he was and what his connection was to Weber! WEBER CLAIMED TO HAVE KNOWN HIM!

The rest of the story and what he meant with his statement made at that point - I can only guess at.

"That's where Cooper Walked out of the Woods".

I feel from the things he told me that he continued on under the power line to another point of intersections - at this point he goes South to the Columbia and then to the Marina.

He mentioned the above route, but he talked about the cottages that were on Lake LaCames. They were pretty close to the Ledbetter home and their properties. Perhaps he took refuge there to lick his wounds - but I think he left a package up in that fenced area that looked like an OLD homestead to me - why put a homestead on top of a hill like that...what about water and accessability in the snow.

Before we left the area he took me to the other side of the lake to a place where he used to know the man and woman and they had 2 boys about his age.
Interesting fact (one of those boys was a jumper). He had earlier mentioned the air strip - that used to be there...and there being a feeding cabin near by and the Sluthe that went down to the Columbia.

FACE it DUANE was in the N.W. for a long time before 1971. Why has the FBI never revealed HOW he knew the area the way he did. NOT ONE agent ever actually listened to this story even though I posted it before in the thread and I told Himmelsback about it - that was WHY he put me in contact with JT and the most damaging thing I ever did in my life!

JT cost me many yrs of my life, by claiming he was the expert and he knew the area - by the time I figured out he didn't, lots of yrs had been wasted. If he knew the area - why has he avoided acknowledging it in the thread and why call me liar and fantasy story teller - if he did NOT understand or know the area I spoke of?

Remember this - I have never posted as much detail as I have tonight. I am sure u guys or others will find other variations of this Sentimental Journey. The WAKE up call was my trip in 2010 - EVEN though that area had changed a LOT and I could NOT find my Green Mountain until I went back with Bruce to that area a couple of day before I left. Strange Bruce has NEVER told that story - I guess because he knows it IS my story and he might screw it up.

Meyer - get some of your students on the ground for me!
Cameras in hand. Have them take pictures and send them to me - If anyone can find OLD pictures GO for IT. I am as READY as I will EVER BE!

After the last 2 horrid wks of sheer hell - regarding FIRES - Today I measureed the area - 18 ft from my house! The deputies and the fire department did NOT tell me that was Illegal. I found out WHO I am supposed to CALL and the next FIRE gets pictures and phone calls. Had the Division of foresty recieved the CALL that should have BEEN made by the Deputies - I would not have had to suffer the horrible smoke inhallation of smoke I did Sat.

The 24 hours of coughing destroyed the repairs made in a surgery 15 months ago - I am not a surgical candidate for any alternative surgeries due my rejection of foreign matter..

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber