Robert99 50
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QuoteHard to imagine anyone being motivated to harm Cossey simply because he packed some chutes forty-plus years ago. You should tell these two people the same thing. My only concerns regarding ANY possible Norjak connection are these:
1) Cossey is well-known to many people in the Northwest, and was featured in several articles back in 2008 for the Amboy chute discovery.
2) Cossey, for some reason or other, always kept his telephone and address freely available in the phone book, both online and print versions. The online version also gives your age, and possible associations by name.
There are many possibilities on what may have happened, but without more information from the police, anything is speculation. Here are a few I've considered...but remember...it's all speculative.
1) Cossey surprised a random burglar who had no prior knowledge of the man, his family, or his living arrangements.
2) Cossey surprised a burglar who knew the family, or was associated with an extended family member, or family friend.
3) A burglar, not associated with any family members in any way, obtained information that Cossey lived alone, and was a senior citizen. And then he was targeted for a burglary. Again...at Dex Knows and other telephone number sites, they not only give out your phone and address, but your age as well. It's better these days to have an unlisted number, IMHO.
4) Cooper Nut: Not because of the Cooper case, but because he knew details about Cossey and tried to do a burglary.
5) Cooper Nut: Went to residence specifically to harm Cossey for some twisted reason. This is EXTREMELY unlikely.
At this point, I favor either the first, second, or third possibilities. The last two are pretty far out there. There is a sixth possibility, but I'm not going into details, out of respect for the family. God hopes it wasn't anything like that.
One thing you can guarantee the cops are doing right now. They are consulting with the family and trying to determine if anything is missing from the home. A detailed explanation why isn't necessary, but it goes to motive. They will also look for signs of forced entry, of course.
_________________________________________________
Your wild speculations remind me of the first time I saw a bad car accident when I was 14 years old. Nothing is even official yet, and you're imagination has totally run wild. Get a grip grow up.
MeyerLouie
__________________________________________________
QuoteI have also done some significant editing on my DBC parachuting story that I admit was filled with gobbilygook. It offers a more concise analysis of Coss' contributions to Norjak. The link to the revised story is below:
http://themountainnewswa.net/2011/10/25/db-cooper-case-heats-up-again-with-controversy-over-parachutes/
_________________________________________________
You're going to make me read that all over again.... oh, man! MeyerLouie
georger 244
QuoteJo, As of this post, all indications are that both the Hayden parachute(s) and the Cossey parachute(s) were right hand pull types.
Also, an altimeter would not have been of any use to Cooper since he did not know where the aircraft was and the height of the terrain under the aircraft was very irregular. He did not have any means of determining his terrain clearance.
Robert99
R99, left hand hard pull figured heavily in Cossey's
and others description of the chute Cooper used.
Cossey said he had rigged that chute specifically for
his own private use and the early thread focused
heavily on this for a time - I am sure you are aware
of this. Something isn't right here -
Another facet is surfacing with people who knew
Cossey or were his students. To a person each is
saying when Cossey told the story of his providing
chutes for the hijacking 'he always referenced another
person who also provided chutes' ... one person says
'someone south' ? But nobody can remember who it
was Cossey was referencing. Ive asked three of these
people and all of them say they don;t recall the name.
I have asked if it was Emerick (sp?) and none think it
was. But Cossey was definitely referencing a second
person in his story. More than this I don't know ...
maybe something will come out in a news article?
QuoteJo, As of this post, all indications are that both the Hayden parachute(s) and the Cossey parachute(s) were right hand pull types.
Also, an altimeter would not have been of any use to Cooper since he did not know where the aircraft was and the height of the terrain under the aircraft was very irregular. He did not have any means of determining his terrain clearance.
Robert99
I did NOT say there was an Altimeter watch. I said Jerry Thomas claimed if Cooper had on a watch that was what it was.
The watch I have is not an altimeter - just an OLD watch that is very unique - maybe it was his Dad's. Lot of reason why people do not get rid of old stuff that does not work.
AS for my NOTES from the conversations with Cossey and Hayden - one of those chutes was rigged with a left hand pull.
I believe I might have a written note with the pictures sent to me by Cossey. So was Cossey just making this claim for the hell of it?
Why would Cossey tell that story to more than ONE person about the Left Hand Pull or was one of the chutes his personal chute and the other one belonged to Hayden. That is the way I remember it, but too many stories have gone down the road.
Most of you should know by now that Bruce goes for the sensationalism and is often inaccurate in this accounting.
Bet if I call Hayden (if his number is still the same as it was yrs ago) that he would dispute some of what Bruce wrote.
THINK ABOUT HOW HE TREATED AND WROTE ABOUT TINA'S SISTER AND BROTHER-IN-LAW. HOW OBTUSE! If none of you remember that - you have a short memory!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
When I first started calling people in 1997 - Mr Himmelsbach provide me with some number for certain individuals - Hayden be one of them and Cossey. Remember my mind was not tainted with all of the stuff accumulated over the yrs. I have to agree with Georger that both of the chutes did NOT belong to Hayden.
If Both chutes taken to the plane were from Hayden then we got a problem. IF it was Cosseys and Haydens - OK city. If they were Cossey's what happened to Hayden's. Of course logic provides the answer, but there are others who could pick up the phone and call Hayden - individual who would understand the explanations and who could explain the problem Cooper world is discussing right now. I am sure he would not mind setting the record straight.
Expect now would be a bad time, but is there ever a good time?
He like myself is getting older and we might not be around much longer.
Maybe one of you should outline the possibilities and ask him in writing which one is true or if none of them are and to provide an explanation. I believe I spoke with Hayden 2 times before 2001.
If Both chutes taken to the plane were from Hayden then we got a problem. IF it was Cosseys and Haydens - OK city. If they were Cossey's what happened to Hayden's. Of course logic provides the answer, but there are others who could pick up the phone and call Hayden - individual who would understand the explanations and who could explain the problem Cooper world is discussing right now. I am sure he would not mind setting the record straight.
Expect now would be a bad time, but is there ever a good time?
He like myself is getting older and we might not be around much longer.
Maybe one of you should outline the possibilities and ask him in writing which one is true or if none of them are and to provide an explanation. I believe I spoke with Hayden 2 times before 2001.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Robert99 wrote
Very true. Interestingly the central character in Sheridan Petersons novel worries about this very issue as he prepares to exit on an insane solo jump into the hills of N Viet Nam. He tips the pilot with a twenty.
If Cossey's death wasn't from surprising a stranger-intruder, the cops will be looking at who might have benefitted from his death. Wills and or life insurance policies have been behind many homicides.
Was I the only one who noticed the Edsel in his garage? The news footage showed one that looked like new.
I don't think anybody would kill for a mint Edsel, but if was a Shelby Cobra I might have a different opinion.
377
QuoteAlso, an altimeter would not have been of any use to Cooper since he did not know where the aircraft was and the height of the terrain under the aircraft was very irregular. He did not have any means of determining his terrain clearance.
Very true. Interestingly the central character in Sheridan Petersons novel worries about this very issue as he prepares to exit on an insane solo jump into the hills of N Viet Nam. He tips the pilot with a twenty.
If Cossey's death wasn't from surprising a stranger-intruder, the cops will be looking at who might have benefitted from his death. Wills and or life insurance policies have been behind many homicides.
Was I the only one who noticed the Edsel in his garage? The news footage showed one that looked like new.
I don't think anybody would kill for a mint Edsel, but if was a Shelby Cobra I might have a different opinion.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
QuoteQuoteQuoteHard to imagine anyone being motivated to harm Cossey simply because he packed some chutes forty-plus years ago. You should tell these two people the same thing. My only concerns regarding ANY possible Norjak connection are these:
1) Cossey is well-known to many people in the Northwest, and was featured in several articles back in 2008 for the Amboy chute discovery.
2) Cossey, for some reason or other, always kept his telephone and address freely available in the phone book, both online and print versions. The online version also gives your age, and possible associations by name.
There are many possibilities on what may have happened, but without more information from the police, anything is speculation. Here are a few I've considered...but remember...it's all speculative.
1) Cossey surprised a random burglar who had no prior knowledge of the man, his family, or his living arrangements.
2) Cossey surprised a burglar who knew the family, or was associated with an extended family member, or family friend.
3) A burglar, not associated with any family members in any way, obtained information that Cossey lived alone, and was a senior citizen. And then he was targeted for a burglary. Again...at Dex Knows and other telephone number sites, they not only give out your phone and address, but your age as well. It's better these days to have an unlisted number, IMHO.
4) Cooper Nut: Not because of the Cooper case, but because he knew details about Cossey and tried to do a burglary.
5) Cooper Nut: Went to residence specifically to harm Cossey for some twisted reason. This is EXTREMELY unlikely.
At this point, I favor either the first, second, or third possibilities. The last two are pretty far out there. There is a sixth possibility, but I'm not going into details, out of respect for the family. God hopes it wasn't anything like that.
One thing you can guarantee the cops are doing right now. They are consulting with the family and trying to determine if anything is missing from the home. A detailed explanation why isn't necessary, but it goes to motive. They will also look for signs of forced entry, of course.
_________________________________________________
Your wild speculations remind me of the first time I saw a bad car accident when I was 14 years old. Nothing is even official yet, and you're imagination has totally run wild. Get a grip grow up.
MeyerLouie
__________________________________________________
Exactly how are the above 'wild speculations'?
You have 5 bullets -- two for Cooper nuts, three for burglary type, and a 6th possibility. If that isn't Girls Gone Wild, I don't know what is. Cossey has not been confirmed yet as the victim, that will happen later today. You've already nailed down all the possibilities. My reference to my 14-year-old traumatic experience with the car accident refers to your level of maturity in reacting to this case. Once again, you totally miss the point.
MeyerLouie
mrshutter45 21
Quote*Coughs politely*
I'm sure Bruce Smith doesn't mind someone copy/pasted over all the pictures from his copyrighted article? Maybe he's okay with that? I hope so.
this page falls under educational, research and criticism. the fair use clause on pictures would fit this category
the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
I used a similar clause when the DMCA took a video down of mine on You Tube several years ago. I took 4 seconds of someones audio that he reversed and explained how he did it. this fell under the criticism clause.
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
Quote
Bruce, Could you post a photograph showing the left hand pull.
Robert99
Quote
There are numerous pictures on the Mountain News.
See above for link. Thanks, Robert.
__________________________________________________
Bruce,
Welcome back from Woodinville (you know, I lived in Woodinville for a brief time in the late 80s). I'm glad you had a safe and productive trip.
I arrived at the same conclusion -- the pull was on the left side, so it must be a left-handed pull. Just the exact opposite, thanks Robert99.
I have been reading all the posts about Cossey, Hayden, who owned the chutes, who didn't, Smoking99's astute analysis and admonishment to us Bevins bashers. It's all interesting, but as I read, I kept thinking -- does it really matter who owned or rigged the parachutes or whether Cooper was left-handed or right-handed (Which hand was dominant, Tina, as he secured the moneybag? What hand did he put to his mouth as he smoked the cigarettes, Tina?).
I know we all have Cossey on our minds this weekend, and wer'e thinking about his history and contributions as they relate to the case.
I learned Cooper opted for the military chute and the dummy reserve. He didn't use the recreational back chute (that got sent back to Hayden) and he cut up the good reserve chute. Why did Cooper make these choices -- you gotta wonder?
Sometimes people choose gear that's familiar, eventhough inconvenient and more difficult, over gear that's more user friendly, convenient, and more technologically advanced. Choosing a military chute may indicate familiarity and experience with it. Also, I heard said the military chute, when compared to the "recreational chute", would be more difficult to control and it would have a harder pull, maybe even a much harder pull. Might that indicate DBC needed to jump onto flatter ground, closer to civilation and not into heavily wooded terrain -- because of this control issue? This, in turn, would imply he needed to be familiar with the geography (afterall, he knew where Tacoma and SeaTac were), which, in turn, would imply a connection to McChord AFB.
Another thing: Did DBC keep the dummy reserve chute or did he throw it out? It's hard to say, but if you had a pocket knife, it wouldn't be that hard to fashion some sort of temporary protective clothing and makeshift shelter (which he would have been in dire need of that night -- Rambo did that in Firstblood Part I with that humongous knife, right?).
If Cooper threw out the dummy chute (and/or briefcase for that matter), then there's a chance they're still out there -- and that's a good reason to join up with Jerry Thomas' search this summer.
As I read the old posts, I am convinced a consolidated DBC profile is sorely needed -- one that synthesizes the key facts and information brought forth in this forum. I have no doubt, Bruce, that your upcoming book will help a lot in this behalf -- I look forward to reading it.
Okay, I've said my piece -- now I'm preparing myself for Professor Blevins' "line-item veto." Blevins is not a Doctor, he just plays one on TV. I hear he's a proctologist -- it's the only profession where you start out at the bottom and stay there.
MeyerLouie
377 22
Quotethis page falls under educational, research and criticism. the fair use clause on pictures would fit this category
And if it didn't it would still be OK if done by a skydiver. We are a tribe. Federal laws are regarded as "suggestions". The Feds are lucky we aren't building gambling casinos at DZs. And if we delay or skip an AD on our jumpship, well that's our right as a sovereign nation.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
sailshaw 0
Smokin99
I believe this quote is from you:
"Apparently, there were particles on the tie which Tom Kaye and Co. identified as pure titanium. On his website, he states that pure titanium would not have been used in the mfg of aircraft (military or otherwise),(only titanium alloy). This would include the Boeing SST project. From this data, the interpretation was made by the CS team that Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry."
I say this needs to be exposed for what it is:
The leap to the conclusion that Pure Titanium was not used in the aircraft industry (and Boeing) is based on a lack of knowledge by the Kaye lead Citizen Sleuth team. The team did a great job of finding the two types of Titanium on the DB tie. However their leap to it could not have been from Boeing, it totally wrong. Boeing was experimenting with pure titanium and flame spraying it onto alloy titanium leading edge surfaces. This process was to give the leading edges of the flying surfaces the higher temperature and abrasion resistance of the pure titanium while maintaining the strength of the alloy titanium underneath. The place this was being done at Boeing was in the Materials and Processes Lab 9-101 building in Seattle. This lab was on the main floor with the offices above on the 2nd floor, including the Manual and Handbook Group office where Sheridan Peterson worked. Scrap from the research lab was placed in several "tub skids" in the alleys right next to the lab. A person looking into the tub skids could have easily let their tie hang into the tub skids while scronging through scrap alloy titanium and pure titanium dust. Sheridan would have passed by those tub skids, many times each day going to and from his office.
The Citizen Sleuth Team very close to this important clue but missed it through not understanding what Boeing was doing for the SST program.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
I believe this quote is from you:
"Apparently, there were particles on the tie which Tom Kaye and Co. identified as pure titanium. On his website, he states that pure titanium would not have been used in the mfg of aircraft (military or otherwise),(only titanium alloy). This would include the Boeing SST project. From this data, the interpretation was made by the CS team that Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry."
I say this needs to be exposed for what it is:
The leap to the conclusion that Pure Titanium was not used in the aircraft industry (and Boeing) is based on a lack of knowledge by the Kaye lead Citizen Sleuth team. The team did a great job of finding the two types of Titanium on the DB tie. However their leap to it could not have been from Boeing, it totally wrong. Boeing was experimenting with pure titanium and flame spraying it onto alloy titanium leading edge surfaces. This process was to give the leading edges of the flying surfaces the higher temperature and abrasion resistance of the pure titanium while maintaining the strength of the alloy titanium underneath. The place this was being done at Boeing was in the Materials and Processes Lab 9-101 building in Seattle. This lab was on the main floor with the offices above on the 2nd floor, including the Manual and Handbook Group office where Sheridan Peterson worked. Scrap from the research lab was placed in several "tub skids" in the alleys right next to the lab. A person looking into the tub skids could have easily let their tie hang into the tub skids while scronging through scrap alloy titanium and pure titanium dust. Sheridan would have passed by those tub skids, many times each day going to and from his office.
The Citizen Sleuth Team very close to this important clue but missed it through not understanding what Boeing was doing for the SST program.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Robert99 50
QuoteR99, left hand hard pull figured heavily in Cossey's
and others description of the chute Cooper used.
Cossey said he had rigged that chute specifically for
his own private use and the early thread focused
heavily on this for a time - I am sure you are aware
of this. Something isn't right here -
Georger, You are correct. I do remember previous discussions on the thread about this.
As a certified parachute rigger, Cossey could easily and legally modify his personal emergency parachute to a left hand pull. That is, the rip cord would be mounted on the harness on the right side of the wearer's body and pulled by his left hand.
I have also seen pictures of some early skydivers that had rip cords for their back packs mounted on the harness on the right side and then pulled off to the right by their right hand. This feature was supposedly to help them maintain stability during pulls.
As 377 remarks elsewhere this morning, the Sky Diving Community, as a Sovereign Nation, seems to do whatever it damn well pleases and doesn't consider itself obligated to follow other people's rules.
Robert99
Robert99 50
QuoteWas I the only one who noticed the Edsel in his garage? The news footage showed one that looked like new.
I don't think anybody would kill for a mint Edsel, but if was a Shelby Cobra I might have a different opinion.
377
377, Don't dismiss the Edsel so fast. It would be worth a bundle at one of these exclusive car auctions.
The Ford Marketing Department VASTLY overestimated the marketing potential for the Edsel. The same marketing people then proceeded to VASTLY underestimate the marketing potential for Ford's next product - the Ford Mustang.
So Ford's marketing people made big-time mistakes on two consecutive products. I speak as a Charter Member of the Mustang Generation.
Robert99
mrshutter45 21
QuoteQuoteR99, left hand hard pull figured heavily in Cossey's
and others description of the chute Cooper used.
Cossey said he had rigged that chute specifically for
his own private use and the early thread focused
heavily on this for a time - I am sure you are aware
of this. Something isn't right here -
Georger, You are correct. I do remember previous discussions on the thread about this.
As a certified parachute rigger, Cossey could easily and legally modify his personal emergency parachute to a left hand pull. That is, the rip cord would be mounted on the harness on the right side of the wearer's body and pulled by his left hand.
I have also seen pictures of some early skydivers that had rip cords for their back packs mounted on the harness on the right side and then pulled off to the right by their right hand. This feature was supposedly to help them maintain stability during pulls.
As 377 remarks elsewhere this morning, the Sky Diving Community, as a Sovereign Nation, seems to do whatever it damn well pleases and doesn't consider itself obligated to follow other people's rules.
Robert99
Is this assuming that Hayden is now out of the equation with the back packs?
lefty model
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL31363/
Hayden ripcord is on the left for a right handed pull (see photo from The Mountain News)
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
georger 244
QuoteQuoteQuoteR99, left hand hard pull figured heavily in Cossey's
and others description of the chute Cooper used.
Cossey said he had rigged that chute specifically for
his own private use and the early thread focused
heavily on this for a time - I am sure you are aware
of this. Something isn't right here -
Georger, You are correct. I do remember previous discussions on the thread about this.
As a certified parachute rigger, Cossey could easily and legally modify his personal emergency parachute to a left hand pull. That is, the rip cord would be mounted on the harness on the right side of the wearer's body and pulled by his left hand.
I have also seen pictures of some early skydivers that had rip cords for their back packs mounted on the harness on the right side and then pulled off to the right by their right hand. This feature was supposedly to help them maintain stability during pulls.
As 377 remarks elsewhere this morning, the Sky Diving Community, as a Sovereign Nation, seems to do whatever it damn well pleases and doesn't consider itself obligated to follow other people's rules.
Robert99
Is this assuming that Hayden is now out of the equation with the back packs?
lefty model
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL31363/
Hayden rip cord is on the left for a right handed pull (see photo from The Mountain News)
I don't think so, at least not if you read news stories today.
Every new news story today is emphasizing that Cossey
"packed the chutes used in the Cooper hijacking" vrs
"supplied the chutes". I have no idea why this slant
has surfaced, to become dominant? It's obviously
based on something or someone, but the distinction
seems to be being universally made.
One article even says: "Cossey packed the chutes and
had sold them to the Issaquah skydiving school who
supplied them for the Cooper hijacking".
Maybe we will learn more today.
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteQuoteR99, left hand hard pull figured heavily in Cossey's
and others description of the chute Cooper used.
Cossey said he had rigged that chute specifically for
his own private use and the early thread focused
heavily on this for a time - I am sure you are aware
of this. Something isn't right here -
Georger, You are correct. I do remember previous discussions on the thread about this.
As a certified parachute rigger, Cossey could easily and legally modify his personal emergency parachute to a left hand pull. That is, the rip cord would be mounted on the harness on the right side of the wearer's body and pulled by his left hand.
I have also seen pictures of some early skydivers that had rip cords for their back packs mounted on the harness on the right side and then pulled off to the right by their right hand. This feature was supposedly to help them maintain stability during pulls.
As 377 remarks elsewhere this morning, the Sky Diving Community, as a Sovereign Nation, seems to do whatever it damn well pleases and doesn't consider itself obligated to follow other people's rules.
Robert99
Is this assuming that Hayden is now out of the equation with the back packs?
lefty model
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL31363/
Hayden rip cord is on the left for a right handed pull (see photo from The Mountain News)
Hayden apparently did own one of the back packs that made it into FBI possession. Bruce quotes Hayden as saying both of his back packs were identical. Since the one in Bruce's pictures is a right hand pull, it is logical to assume that the second Hayden parachute was also a right hand pull.
But Cossey claims to have owned and modified the back pack that Cooper actually took with him and that it was a left hand pull.
There is a simple solution here. All we need to do is find Cooper's remains, if any, along with an NB-6 parachute with the chest and leg straps still fastened and, ideally, with the rip cord still in its housing. Or at least the housing still on the harness.
That would answer a lot of questions and put this thread out of business, although Jo and Blevins would probably claim thread ownership and object to closing it down.
Robert99
mrshutter45 21
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteR99, left hand hard pull figured heavily in Cossey's
and others description of the chute Cooper used.
Cossey said he had rigged that chute specifically for
his own private use and the early thread focused
heavily on this for a time - I am sure you are aware
of this. Something isn't right here -
Georger, You are correct. I do remember previous discussions on the thread about this.
As a certified parachute rigger, Cossey could easily and legally modify his personal emergency parachute to a left hand pull. That is, the rip cord would be mounted on the harness on the right side of the wearer's body and pulled by his left hand.
I have also seen pictures of some early skydivers that had rip cords for their back packs mounted on the harness on the right side and then pulled off to the right by their right hand. This feature was supposedly to help them maintain stability during pulls.
As 377 remarks elsewhere this morning, the Sky Diving Community, as a Sovereign Nation, seems to do whatever it damn well pleases and doesn't consider itself obligated to follow other people's rules.
Robert99
Is this assuming that Hayden is now out of the equation with the back packs?
lefty model
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL31363/
Hayden rip cord is on the left for a right handed pull (see photo from The Mountain News)
I don't think so, at least not if you read news stories today.
Every new news story today is emphasizing that Cossey
"packed the chutes used in the Cooper hijacking" vrs
"supplied the chutes". I have no idea why this slant
has surfaced, to become dominant? It's obviously
based on something or someone, but the distinction
seems to be being universally made.
One article even says: "Cossey packed the chutes and
had sold them to the Issaquah skydiving school who
supplied them for the Cooper hijacking".
Maybe we will learn more today.
understood, but, we have an FBI Agent saying one was given back...correct. Hayden
claims the chute in the picture was the one left behind that was given back to him thru
a law suit...correct. we have documents showing two chute were Haydens and one
shows evidence of Cossey packing it. we can see that two cards were signed by Cossey,
one on Haydens chute, the other is the front pack in the FBI's evidence room. this could
show that Cossey did in fact pack all of the chutes and could be the owner of the front chutes.
leaving the two back chutes to Hayden, Cooper took one of Hayden's and one of Cossey's......
possible, maybe, could be????
after reading Robert99's comment while posting this, my theory is incorrect....
BUT, where is Hayden's other chute.....................................
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
mrshutter45 21
Robert, you need to learn how to post. you are once again directing your post to Meyer thru me..........
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
mrshutter45 21
QuoteQuoteRobert, you need to learn how to post. you are once again directing your post to Meyer thru me..........
Fixed. What do you mean by 'where is Hayden's other chute?' I think it went out the door with Cooper...
You guys are making this more complicated than it really is. Read the PDF excerpt. Hayden gives extensive details on both chutes, gets one back from the FBI later. Neither belonged to Cossey. He was just the person who packed them. The evidence is nearly overwhelming on this point. Hayden claims ownership forty years ago, via the PDF. He does the same thing in the Bruce Smith interview. The FBI and the courts agree, returning the second chute to Hayden later. What more do you need?
agreed, until I remembered what Robert99 was saying about Cossey modifying the chute. that's the only proof we don't have, other than Cossey's word.....
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI
smokin99 0
QuoteSmokin99
I believe this quote is from you:
"Apparently, there were particles on the tie which Tom Kaye and Co. identified as pure titanium. On his website, he states that pure titanium would not have been used in the mfg of aircraft (military or otherwise),(only titanium alloy). This would include the Boeing SST project. From this data, the interpretation was made by the CS team that Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry."
I say this needs to be exposed for what it is:
The leap to the conclusion that Pure Titanium was not used in the aircraft industry (and Boeing) is based on a lack of knowledge by the Kaye lead Citizen Sleuth team. The team did a great job of finding the two types of Titanium on the DB tie. However their leap to it could not have been from Boeing, it totally wrong. Boeing was experimenting with pure titanium and flame spraying it onto alloy titanium leading edge surfaces. This process was to give the leading edges of the flying surfaces the higher temperature and abrasion resistance of the pure titanium while maintaining the strength of the alloy titanium underneath. The place this was being done at Boeing was in the Materials and Processes Lab 9-101 building in Seattle. This lab was on the main floor with the offices above on the 2nd floor, including the Manual and Handbook Group office where Sheridan Peterson worked. Scrap from the research lab was placed in several "tub skids" in the alleys right next to the lab. A person looking into the tub skids could have easily let their tie hang into the tub skids while scronging through scrap alloy titanium and pure titanium dust. Sheridan would have passed by those tub skids, many times each day going to and from his office.
The Citizen Sleuth Team very close to this important clue but missed it through not understanding what Boeing was doing for the SST program.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Hi Sailshaw,
I will post some info pertaining to this when I get home this evening
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
BobKnoss 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteRobert, you need to learn how to post. you are once again directing your post to Meyer thru me..........
Fixed. What do you mean by 'where is Hayden's other chute?' I think it went out the door with Cooper...
You guys are making this more complicated than it really is. Read the PDF excerpt. Hayden gives extensive details on both chutes, gets one back from the FBI later. Neither belonged to Cossey. He was just the person who packed them. The evidence is nearly overwhelming on this point. Hayden claims ownership forty years ago, via the PDF. He does the same thing in the Bruce Smith interview. The FBI and the courts agree, returning the second chute to Hayden later. What more do you need?
agreed, until I remembered what Robert99 was saying about Cossey modifying the chute. that's the only proof we don't have, other than Cossey's word.....
WRONG AGAIN, Shutter. The chute Cooper used was NOT packed by Cossey. He used the one marked with the "X" which was sewn shut. It was packed by the guy who trained him to jump and I witnessed the whole thing. You can speculate forever, but the fact is that what really happened is what I am telling you. I had spoken to Cossey. He said, "There are a lot of important people involved here....." I'll confirm that.
Also, an altimeter would not have been of any use to Cooper since he did not know where the aircraft was and the height of the terrain under the aircraft was very irregular. He did not have any means of determining his terrain clearance.
Robert99
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