georger 256 #4126 August 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteAnd Jo, throwing the rock at the dog was the worst thing you could do. Hopefully he'll bite you soon. It was just a pebble besides I couldn't hit an elepant in my yard, much less a BOXER - I was corrected today. REPLY> Had Duane ever been a boxer or suffered a serious head injury? G. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #4127 August 21, 2008 Credentials? I finished Kindergarten. I was particularly good at woodworking and I raised guppies. Guppies? I'll show you a GUPPY!2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 256 #4128 August 21, 2008 Quote Credentials? I finished Kindergarten. I was particularly good at woodworking and I raised guppies. Guppies? I'll show you a GUPPY! REP: and so it is! The Guppy. Good one 377. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #4129 August 21, 2008 QuoteCredentials? I finished Kindergarten. I was particularly good at woodworking and I raised guppies. Ya know, guppies growth rate is directly related to how much you feed them. And females tend to grow much larger than the males... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/guppy-growth-rate-vt7517.html ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #4130 August 21, 2008 Has there been any word on a book release date from attorney-investigator-author Cook? Any more news on "the hijack money is in the lost Canadian safe deposit box" angle? Just wondering... 377 I like Boeing 377 Guppies. No matter how fast you feed them money, they do not grow. They just corrode and depreciate. Airplanes can burn money faster than incinerators can.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #4131 August 21, 2008 Re: [skyjack71] Forget Raincoats...let's talk Huevoes Someone stated And Jo, throwing the rock at the dog was the worst thing you could do. Hopefully he'll bite you soon. Jo Replied: It was just a pebble besides I couldn't hit an elepant in my yard, much less a BOXER - I was corrected today. Georger you replied Had Duane ever been a boxer or suffered a serious head injury. Everyone laugh because that is a strange reply for Georger - Georger - did you fall on your head laughing. No Duane was never a boxer nor did he ever have a head injury or be diagnosis with anything you guys have mentioned. He did need some counseling regarding going on the Kidney Machine, but who wouldn't - they do the same thing when someone has cancer. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #4132 August 21, 2008 QuoteYou seem to have your finger on the pulse of many discussions besides the DB Cooper one. Do you read every post in every forum? I scan all of the forums I personally moderate just about every day. I read all of some threads top to bottom and scan others until I see something that sticks out or is worth commenting on. There are some specific names that I slow my scan down to see if there's anything particularly incendiary, but it's nearly impossible to keep track of everything happening everywhere. One of the reasons I have a particular insistence about keeping all the DB Cooper stuff in one thread is to facilitate this. I'm "faulted" by people on every side of keeping the thread alive to deleting it entirely. I figure if I'm getting heat from both sides I'm doing my job.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #4133 August 21, 2008 I have a hard time finding any non-US/Canada parachute extortion hijacks. (excepting that Phillipines home-made parachute case) The first British domestic hijack (Jan 7?, 1975) was a parachute extortion but the guy was a nut. It was a BAC-111 which seemed perfect for the job...BAC-111's were involved in a number of the non-US hijacks, but not parachute jobs. It got me thinking that the 727 for Cooper could have just been an accidental choice. Maybe someone out there has more info. I suppose I don't have access to European newspaper archives. note to Jo: in the Brit hijack attached, a steward was bit by a police dog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #4134 August 21, 2008 QuoteOne of the reasons I have a particular insistence about keeping all the DB Cooper stuff in one thread is to facilitate this. I'm "faulted" by people on every side of keeping the thread alive to deleting it entirely. I figure if I'm getting heat from both sides I'm doing my job. I do appreciate you keeping this thread open Quade. I know there is a lot of pressure to shut it down. Curiously, the critics seem to think we are all whuffos here, which is not true. We have a good mix of jumpers and non jumpers, each bringing something different to the party. If it were just skydivers, I doubt if the digging would have been as deep. We skydivers are all borderline ADDs. I know I'd be pulling silver (on the top of the beer can) and turning on the TV to watch the Olympics long before I'd do the painstaking research that some of the non jumpers have done here. Speaking of the Olympics... I am the only one who has noticed that the TV coverage of the events is inversely proportional to the clothes coverage on the participating female athletes? I think the women's equestrian teams need to wear bikinis if they expect any TV time. Man, if BMX bicycling and archery are Olympic events, why not skydiving? I know weather and TV coverage would be problems, but it would have great viewer appeal. Add bikinis to the womens swoops and you'd be in prime time. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #4135 August 21, 2008 Quote Has there been any word on a book release date from attorney-investigator-author Cook? Any more news on "the hijack money is in the lost Canadian safe deposit box" angle? Just wondering... I took all the money out years ago. However, I did leave a check for the entire amount. (edited to add...) If anyone went through the trouble of hijacking a plane to get $200K, is it a reasonable expectation that they would not spend it? Leave it in a box for 30 years? No. If anybody told their kids where the money was, where the keys were, and then died... are there any kids who wouldn't drive up to Canada this evening to get the money? Maybe leave a very few as proof... ok, three. Leave three 20s in the box. Who would risk that the FBI would want the $200K back as evidence? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #4136 August 21, 2008 Quote I know I'd be pulling silver (on the top of the beer can) and turning on the TV to watch the Olympics long before I'd do the painstaking research that some of the non jumpers have done here. ... Add bikinis to the womens swoops and you'd be in prime time. 377 Ah research.. rorschach test for the thread attached. -skydivers will be making estimates on the front passenger. -snowmman notices the back passenger is wearing sandals -georger says "see, Cooper could have survived Columbia landing" -377 says "I wonder if that would fit out the back stairs of a Martin 404?" -Jo says "Duane learned that in prison" -Sluggo says "Well they're obviously trained professionals" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #4137 August 22, 2008 I think he may have said RAFT ....STAIRS, not AFT STAIRS. Man, how did you know I liked Doobie Liners (Martin 404s?). They were the Doobie Bros Lear Jet back in the day. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #4138 August 22, 2008 raft Same raft company. Sevylor makes a good raft. Used many of them. They even paid me for some video. THIS is what a 727 exit looks like (at only 150mph). side view Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #4139 August 22, 2008 Quote raft Same raft company. Sevylor makes a good raft. Used many of them. They even paid me for some video. THIS is what a 727 exit looks like (at only 150mph). side view looks cool! clicking thru stuff, saw a video of a guy going out on a jetski, with two guys holding on to it for stability...one guy standing on it...When they landed, the guy proudly bragged about the "first jetski skydive" ...and I couldn't help but think "WTF?" so, from the outside, sometimes there is that aspect of someone smashing a beer can on his forehead, and then yelling "of course the damn raincoat flapped" :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #4140 August 22, 2008 Here is what a DC 9 exit looks like, and No, it was not a stable one. I was going to attempt a trick some better jumpers reportedly pulled off on 727 exits where they lined up with the direction of aircraft flight, arched their bodies, and CLIMBED above exit altitude while bleeding off speed. I said they were better jumpers... Photo by Matt Dowling. 377 jet chump2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #4141 August 22, 2008 Quote Quote raft Same raft company. Sevylor makes a good raft. Used many of them. They even paid me for some video. THIS is what a 727 exit looks like (at only 150mph). side view looks cool! clicking thru stuff, saw a video of a guy going out on a jetski, with two guys holding on to it for stability...one guy standing on it...When they landed, the guy proudly bragged about the "first jetski skydive" ...and I couldn't help but think "WTF?" so, from the outside, sometimes there is that aspect of someone smashing a beer can on his forehead, and then yelling "of course the damn raincoat flapped" :) Out in Arizona, they used to have "junk day". Jump what ya bring. Cars, motorcycles, shopping carts. Get a copy of Joe Jennings "Good Stuff". They launched a "living room set". You have to see it to believe it. Also, one of the coolest car launches ever. As far as a raincoat goes, better have it tucked in tight under the leg straps or it will cup air wildly. It would bring your butt up over your head. Instant violent instability. I used to jump with a guy who was 6'5" or so, and 350 lbs. He had a full wing (like a camera suit) and a half-panel sewn between his legs below his groin to add lift. He said it was like having a mini-parachute. The raincoat is a non-issue. It is probably the least of his worries. In fact, probably his only contributing survival factor if he landed safely that night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #4142 August 22, 2008 Quote Get a copy of Joe Jennings "Good Stuff". They launched a "living room set". You have to see it to believe it. Also, one of the coolest car launches ever. What I couldn't get over on those endeavors is how precise Brian Burke had those spots to the ground crew! Some of them didn't have to zoom in all that far to get the crash shot. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #4143 August 22, 2008 Quote Quote Get a copy of Joe Jennings "Good Stuff". They launched a "living room set". You have to see it to believe it. Also, one of the coolest car launches ever. What I couldn't get over on those endeavors is how precise Brian Burke had those spots to the ground crew! Some of them didn't have to zoom in all that far to get the crash shot. ltdiver That would be a little nerve wracking to watch a car head for you at that speed. If it was going to hit you, you couldn't move fast enough to get away. I heard that there was some endangered toads that they had to miss, so it was promised that the spot would be very exact. (Really. ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 256 #4144 August 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteHave the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold. And how would the judicial system deal with the flood of people that would simply claim to have been DB Cooper in order to become rich or go down in history? How would they deal with the delusional ones living out a fantasy life that might actually think they are DB Cooper? REPLY: The same way they deal with them here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 256 #4145 August 22, 2008 The raincoat is a non-issue. It is probably the least of his worries. In fact, probably his only contributing survival factor if he landed safely that night. REPLY: I have been keeping a tally. (for a long time) The current tally is 13 - raincoat would have harmed or killed him. 9 - raincoat of no consequence at all. All experienced jumpers (I guess). A similar tally of survived vs didnt survive splits almost 50-50 among skyjumpers. Now do you see the dilemma? Experts cant even agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #4127 August 21, 2008 Credentials? I finished Kindergarten. I was particularly good at woodworking and I raised guppies. Guppies? I'll show you a GUPPY!2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 256 #4128 August 21, 2008 Quote Credentials? I finished Kindergarten. I was particularly good at woodworking and I raised guppies. Guppies? I'll show you a GUPPY! REP: and so it is! The Guppy. Good one 377. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #4129 August 21, 2008 QuoteCredentials? I finished Kindergarten. I was particularly good at woodworking and I raised guppies. Ya know, guppies growth rate is directly related to how much you feed them. And females tend to grow much larger than the males... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/guppy-growth-rate-vt7517.html ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #4130 August 21, 2008 Has there been any word on a book release date from attorney-investigator-author Cook? Any more news on "the hijack money is in the lost Canadian safe deposit box" angle? Just wondering... 377 I like Boeing 377 Guppies. No matter how fast you feed them money, they do not grow. They just corrode and depreciate. Airplanes can burn money faster than incinerators can.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #4131 August 21, 2008 Re: [skyjack71] Forget Raincoats...let's talk Huevoes Someone stated And Jo, throwing the rock at the dog was the worst thing you could do. Hopefully he'll bite you soon. Jo Replied: It was just a pebble besides I couldn't hit an elepant in my yard, much less a BOXER - I was corrected today. Georger you replied Had Duane ever been a boxer or suffered a serious head injury. Everyone laugh because that is a strange reply for Georger - Georger - did you fall on your head laughing. No Duane was never a boxer nor did he ever have a head injury or be diagnosis with anything you guys have mentioned. He did need some counseling regarding going on the Kidney Machine, but who wouldn't - they do the same thing when someone has cancer. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4132 August 21, 2008 QuoteYou seem to have your finger on the pulse of many discussions besides the DB Cooper one. Do you read every post in every forum? I scan all of the forums I personally moderate just about every day. I read all of some threads top to bottom and scan others until I see something that sticks out or is worth commenting on. There are some specific names that I slow my scan down to see if there's anything particularly incendiary, but it's nearly impossible to keep track of everything happening everywhere. One of the reasons I have a particular insistence about keeping all the DB Cooper stuff in one thread is to facilitate this. I'm "faulted" by people on every side of keeping the thread alive to deleting it entirely. I figure if I'm getting heat from both sides I'm doing my job.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #4133 August 21, 2008 I have a hard time finding any non-US/Canada parachute extortion hijacks. (excepting that Phillipines home-made parachute case) The first British domestic hijack (Jan 7?, 1975) was a parachute extortion but the guy was a nut. It was a BAC-111 which seemed perfect for the job...BAC-111's were involved in a number of the non-US hijacks, but not parachute jobs. It got me thinking that the 727 for Cooper could have just been an accidental choice. Maybe someone out there has more info. I suppose I don't have access to European newspaper archives. note to Jo: in the Brit hijack attached, a steward was bit by a police dog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #4134 August 21, 2008 QuoteOne of the reasons I have a particular insistence about keeping all the DB Cooper stuff in one thread is to facilitate this. I'm "faulted" by people on every side of keeping the thread alive to deleting it entirely. I figure if I'm getting heat from both sides I'm doing my job. I do appreciate you keeping this thread open Quade. I know there is a lot of pressure to shut it down. Curiously, the critics seem to think we are all whuffos here, which is not true. We have a good mix of jumpers and non jumpers, each bringing something different to the party. If it were just skydivers, I doubt if the digging would have been as deep. We skydivers are all borderline ADDs. I know I'd be pulling silver (on the top of the beer can) and turning on the TV to watch the Olympics long before I'd do the painstaking research that some of the non jumpers have done here. Speaking of the Olympics... I am the only one who has noticed that the TV coverage of the events is inversely proportional to the clothes coverage on the participating female athletes? I think the women's equestrian teams need to wear bikinis if they expect any TV time. Man, if BMX bicycling and archery are Olympic events, why not skydiving? I know weather and TV coverage would be problems, but it would have great viewer appeal. Add bikinis to the womens swoops and you'd be in prime time. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #4135 August 21, 2008 Quote Has there been any word on a book release date from attorney-investigator-author Cook? Any more news on "the hijack money is in the lost Canadian safe deposit box" angle? Just wondering... I took all the money out years ago. However, I did leave a check for the entire amount. (edited to add...) If anyone went through the trouble of hijacking a plane to get $200K, is it a reasonable expectation that they would not spend it? Leave it in a box for 30 years? No. If anybody told their kids where the money was, where the keys were, and then died... are there any kids who wouldn't drive up to Canada this evening to get the money? Maybe leave a very few as proof... ok, three. Leave three 20s in the box. Who would risk that the FBI would want the $200K back as evidence? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #4136 August 21, 2008 Quote I know I'd be pulling silver (on the top of the beer can) and turning on the TV to watch the Olympics long before I'd do the painstaking research that some of the non jumpers have done here. ... Add bikinis to the womens swoops and you'd be in prime time. 377 Ah research.. rorschach test for the thread attached. -skydivers will be making estimates on the front passenger. -snowmman notices the back passenger is wearing sandals -georger says "see, Cooper could have survived Columbia landing" -377 says "I wonder if that would fit out the back stairs of a Martin 404?" -Jo says "Duane learned that in prison" -Sluggo says "Well they're obviously trained professionals" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #4137 August 22, 2008 I think he may have said RAFT ....STAIRS, not AFT STAIRS. Man, how did you know I liked Doobie Liners (Martin 404s?). They were the Doobie Bros Lear Jet back in the day. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #4138 August 22, 2008 raft Same raft company. Sevylor makes a good raft. Used many of them. They even paid me for some video. THIS is what a 727 exit looks like (at only 150mph). side view Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #4139 August 22, 2008 Quote raft Same raft company. Sevylor makes a good raft. Used many of them. They even paid me for some video. THIS is what a 727 exit looks like (at only 150mph). side view looks cool! clicking thru stuff, saw a video of a guy going out on a jetski, with two guys holding on to it for stability...one guy standing on it...When they landed, the guy proudly bragged about the "first jetski skydive" ...and I couldn't help but think "WTF?" so, from the outside, sometimes there is that aspect of someone smashing a beer can on his forehead, and then yelling "of course the damn raincoat flapped" :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #4140 August 22, 2008 Here is what a DC 9 exit looks like, and No, it was not a stable one. I was going to attempt a trick some better jumpers reportedly pulled off on 727 exits where they lined up with the direction of aircraft flight, arched their bodies, and CLIMBED above exit altitude while bleeding off speed. I said they were better jumpers... Photo by Matt Dowling. 377 jet chump2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #4141 August 22, 2008 Quote Quote raft Same raft company. Sevylor makes a good raft. Used many of them. They even paid me for some video. THIS is what a 727 exit looks like (at only 150mph). side view looks cool! clicking thru stuff, saw a video of a guy going out on a jetski, with two guys holding on to it for stability...one guy standing on it...When they landed, the guy proudly bragged about the "first jetski skydive" ...and I couldn't help but think "WTF?" so, from the outside, sometimes there is that aspect of someone smashing a beer can on his forehead, and then yelling "of course the damn raincoat flapped" :) Out in Arizona, they used to have "junk day". Jump what ya bring. Cars, motorcycles, shopping carts. Get a copy of Joe Jennings "Good Stuff". They launched a "living room set". You have to see it to believe it. Also, one of the coolest car launches ever. As far as a raincoat goes, better have it tucked in tight under the leg straps or it will cup air wildly. It would bring your butt up over your head. Instant violent instability. I used to jump with a guy who was 6'5" or so, and 350 lbs. He had a full wing (like a camera suit) and a half-panel sewn between his legs below his groin to add lift. He said it was like having a mini-parachute. The raincoat is a non-issue. It is probably the least of his worries. In fact, probably his only contributing survival factor if he landed safely that night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #4142 August 22, 2008 Quote Get a copy of Joe Jennings "Good Stuff". They launched a "living room set". You have to see it to believe it. Also, one of the coolest car launches ever. What I couldn't get over on those endeavors is how precise Brian Burke had those spots to the ground crew! Some of them didn't have to zoom in all that far to get the crash shot. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #4143 August 22, 2008 Quote Quote Get a copy of Joe Jennings "Good Stuff". They launched a "living room set". You have to see it to believe it. Also, one of the coolest car launches ever. What I couldn't get over on those endeavors is how precise Brian Burke had those spots to the ground crew! Some of them didn't have to zoom in all that far to get the crash shot. ltdiver That would be a little nerve wracking to watch a car head for you at that speed. If it was going to hit you, you couldn't move fast enough to get away. I heard that there was some endangered toads that they had to miss, so it was promised that the spot would be very exact. (Really. ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 256 #4144 August 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteHave the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold. And how would the judicial system deal with the flood of people that would simply claim to have been DB Cooper in order to become rich or go down in history? How would they deal with the delusional ones living out a fantasy life that might actually think they are DB Cooper? REPLY: The same way they deal with them here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 256 #4145 August 22, 2008 The raincoat is a non-issue. It is probably the least of his worries. In fact, probably his only contributing survival factor if he landed safely that night. REPLY: I have been keeping a tally. (for a long time) The current tally is 13 - raincoat would have harmed or killed him. 9 - raincoat of no consequence at all. All experienced jumpers (I guess). A similar tally of survived vs didnt survive splits almost 50-50 among skyjumpers. Now do you see the dilemma? Experts cant even agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 256 #4146 August 22, 2008 Everyone laugh because that is a strange reply for Georger - Georger - did you fall on your head laughing. No Duane was never a boxer nor did he ever have a head injury or be diagnosis with anything you guys have mentioned. He did need some counseling regarding going on the Kidney Machine, but who wouldn't - they do the same thing when someone has cancer. REPLY: Jo, can you tell me simply "why" you want Duane to have been Cooper? Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #4147 August 22, 2008 Quote Everyone laugh because that is a strange reply for Georger - Georger - did you fall on your head laughing. No Duane was never a boxer nor did he ever have a head injury or be diagnosis with anything you guys have mentioned. He did need some counseling regarding going on the Kidney Machine, but who wouldn't - they do the same thing when someone has cancer. REPLY: Jo, can you tell me simply "why" you want Duane to have been Cooper? Georger I'm in the process of trying to get a 1971 NWA flight timetable so we can debate the flights and NWA's '71 stable of planes more intelligently. (I think DC-10, 707, 747, 727 at the time). I'm wondering if arguably the choice of 727 was random by Cooper (the whole stairs plan seems to have been created on the fly)...If we think he's Portland/WA local, 727 may have just been default. If we agree he's inexperienced jumper, why would he be intelligent about jet exit stairs vs door? Cini apparently wasn't (DC-8). The next Cooper wannabe wasn't (707). Wonder if this concept of Cooper "choosing" 727 is just myth. So then I thought, if I have an actual '71 flight timetable from NWA, and I have the FBI fingerprint card from Ckret for Duane...then I should be able to get the right technology to put a false set of Duane's prints on the '71 flight timetable. While difficult, I read somewhere that prints that old could still be lifted. Jo: what would that be worth? I would think a bunch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #4148 August 22, 2008 Quote Jo, can you tell me simply "why" you want Duane to have been Cooper? Now, that would be an interesting answer. I suspect you won't get a proper one i.e. in terms of "why" ... just something along the lines of she "knows" that he was. She may even deny "wanting" Duane to have been Cooper (even though that fact seems obvious to most of us). I personally think that the real answer to that question would explain an awful lot. I have my own theory on it, but seeing as I don't have an MA in clinical pysch, or am even a Texas cop, it certainly wouldn't be coming from someone considered "good enough" to theorize...Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #4149 August 22, 2008 I was really scratching my head when it was suggested that Duane's commutation had any meaning or suggested anything. Why? because no data on the rates of state commutations was presented. I found a paper outlining all the federal clemencies by presidents. There's a lot per president. Like >thousand for some. Did people realize that? (FDR: 3687, Nixon:926) (clemencies include commutations + pardons + ...) http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonspres1.htm But at the state level, the data's harder to find. (edit) http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_08_11_04/huckabee8.html addresses Huckabee..showing state clemencies from '96-'04. MO: 69, OK: 178, AR: 703, LA: 213, MS: 24, TN: 32, TX: 98. Here's a specific example from Oregon '69-'74. And it's not including pardons. Seems like there were 77 commutations in OR over the period of '69 thru '74. This all makes me think state commutations are a lot more common than us non-prison-system-aware folk realize. We hear about clemency for murderers in the papers, but not the more mundane stuff (like Duane's). http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/governors/McCall/mccalllcclem.html 11. Commutations Granted, 1969-1974. 12. Commutation, Warren Anspaugh. 13. Commutation, Ernest Avery. 14. Commutation, Frank Baird. 15. Commutation, Melvin Bray. 16. Commutation, Hiram Campbell. 17. Commutation, Stephen Chochrek. 18. Commutation, Arthur Clawson. 19. Commutation, Charles Cornelius. 20. Commutation, Charles Dawson. 21. Commutation, Helen Drayton. 22. Commutation, Wendell DeLorme. 23. Commutation, Elmer Dixon. 24. Commutation, Edward Easter. 25. Commutation, Arnold Eaton. 26. Commutation, Thomas Elliott. 27. Commutation, Frank Erickson. 28. Commutation, Ben Fleischman. 29. Commutation, Lane Fletcher. 30. Commutation, Arden Foster. 31. Commutation, Jerome Foster. 32. Commutation, Thomas Gardner. 33. Commutation, Leroy George. 34-35. Commutation, Billy Glover. 36. Commutation, John Goodall. 37. Commutation, Gerald Guffey. 38. Commutation, Robert Gruver. 39. Commutation, Henry Hale 40. Commutation, Marvin Hamilton. 41. Commutation, Joseph Hard. 42. Commutation, Edward Harris. 43. Commutation, Dale Helmick. 44. Commutation, Jerry Hollingsworth. 45. Commutation, Kenneth Hovey. 46. Commutation, Arthur Huff. 47. Commutation, Ronald Jennings. 48. Commutation, Stanley Johnson. 49. Commutation, Michael Joseph. 50. Commutation, Tom Keffer. 51. Commutation, William Kent. 52. Commutation, Keith Lee. 53. Commutation, Gordon Little. 54. Commutation, Curtis Lockwood Box 3 1. Commutation, Albert Mario. 2. Commutation, Leroy McCauley. 3. Commutation, Ervin McDonald. 4. Commutation, Walter McNair. 5. Commutation, Robert Meyer. 6. Commutation, Thomas Moore. 7. Commutation, Lynne Nichols. 8. Commutation, Joseph O'Brien. 9. Commutation, Gene Oland. 10. Commutation, Rudolph Oliver. 11. Commutation, Verne Peterson. 12. Commutation, Dellmar Phillips. 13. Commutation, Robert Phipps. 14. Commutation, Stephen Pieroni. 15. Commutation, William Reeves. 16. Commutation, David Rhoten. 17. Commutation, Arnold Robbins. 18. Commutation, Stanley Rose. 19. Commutation, Mary Rowley. 20. Commutation, Marvin Ryan. 21. Commutation, Douglas Schelin. 22. Commutation, Wesley Sieckmann. 23. Commutation, David Skrelunas. 24. Commutation, Larry Slopak. 25. Commutation, Ernest Smith. 26. Commutation, Mark Smith. 27. Commutation, Wayne Stewart. 28. Commutation, Killes Teel. 29. Commutation, Tracy Thompson. 30. Commutation, Irene Van Kleeck. 31. Commutation, Van Wallach. 32. Commutation, Billy White. 33. Commutation, Peter Wiley. 34. Commutation, Albert Wilhelm. 35. Commutation, Eddie William. Most likely the commutation meant Duane was relatively benign as a criminal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #4150 August 22, 2008 Snowmman, Again, your research skills are impressive. Federal (presidential) clemency is often political in nature e.g. Patty Hearst, Scooter Libby, Richard Nixon etc. When you consider how many felony convictions there are on the state level every year, the commutation numbers you published are an incredibly small percentage. I have polled a number of friends who still practice criminal defense and they say commutations by state governors, at least in this area, are EXTREMELY rare and are not routinely given just because someone is considered low risk etc. These guys have been practicing for decades and not one of them ever had a client receive a commutation of sentence. Prisoners with time on their hands apply for clemency, flood the courts with writs, etc etc. Most of them get nowhere. If they get traction, there is a reason. I still think Duane, with his recidivism, was a terrible candidate for a commutation. Too risky and more importantly, NO GAIN FOR THE GOV. Duane was not the son of a big contributor nor was he an upright citizen who had some technical skirmish with the law, like an accounting/financial reporting crime that resulted in no personal gain. I still think there is a story there and it involves Duane having something that he could trade. What was it? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
