DB Cooper

[CCharger 0]

In reference to contamination of lycopodium by FBI latex gloves...the lycopodium was present along with titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. This combination is only present in pill coatings. We know Benzedrine pills were coated in lycopodium powder in 1971. We know Coop had Benezedrine on him. Is it safe to conclude Coop was a routine user of Benezedrine?

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

***In reference to contamination of lycopodium by FBI latex gloves...the lycopodium was present along with titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. This combination is only present in pill coatings. We know Benzedrine pills were coated in lycopodium powder in 1971. We know Coop had Benezedrine on him. Is it safe to conclude Coop was a routine user of Benezedrine?

My guess is 'maybe not'. Reason being if he was a long-term user of amphetamines his behavior probably would have been more bizarre than it was. 'Speed Freak' was a good descriptive term for those type of folks. Talking a million miles a minute, heavy sweating, paranoia, bizarro behavior, etc. Cooper didn't seem to exhibit those behaviors. Also, body odor was sometimes a problem.
......

That is not correct. You should have stopped with the Maybe not. I've known many people - truck drivers, cops, nurses, doctors, and musicians, who used amphetamines on a routine basis in the mid 70s and exhibited none of the behaviors, etc. that you describe.
Routine use vs overuse - which is what you are describing. LOL....oddly enough the only person that I knew who did exhibit the behaviors you describe when he overused and abused amphetamines was a Vietnam vet paratrooper.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

It's difficult to come to any conclusions regarding substances on the tie, because of the number of people who have handled the thing over the last forty-plus years. One possible exception might be the DNA.

I like Tom Kaye and I think he's done the best he could (for the most part) with the evidence. But it's always tricky when you can't establish a chain with a piece of evidence. For example, what if Cooper picked up the tie from a Goodwill and it was previously owned by a person who handled titanium sponge? What if a shopper picked it up and set it down who did the same thing? What if it was borrowed and that's why it was the only real piece of evidence he left behind, as if he didn't care if they found it? There are too many variables in any possible chain of evidence to make assumptions on those things.

The tie, with the exception possibly of the DNA sample, will never lead to the hijacker. The reason being that titanium and powder cannot identify a suspect. DNA can...if you have someone to compare it to, so it is the best shot. The other items probably won't because you can't say the tie wasn't contaminated by handling over the years by all the agents who worked on the case, or the FBI techs who examined it. Or even to establish where it was purchased, when, or how it was originally acquired by the hijacker. The DNA, in my opinion, still stands as the one good clue that ever came from the tie.

Kaye tries to link the powder and titanium to the hijacker, but it's strictly a leap of faith and a bunch of assumptions. The DNA is actual identification, of a sort. The powder might point to Cooper using benzedrine during the hijacking, but it cannot help identify him. The titanium could have come from a number of human sources, as I pointed out.

Unfortunately DNA can contaminate also. Who's to say it's not Larry Carr's skin cells on that tie? Has he been excluded or all of the other who knows how many people who have handled it. What about cross contamination? Even with gloves if you just put all the stuff in a bag who's to say it doesn't capture DNA from another item.

Just saying, the only way DNA is a good clue is if someone is matched to it. And the odds of that are???? Especially since we've been told that per the amount/type of DNA they can only exclude? And since they don't really know who they are excluding against? I don't know - I think the DNA is one of those things that we all want to hang our hat on but it's not the Holy Grail.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

  CCharger

In reference to contamination of lycopodium by FBI latex gloves...the lycopodium was present along with titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. This combination is only present in pill coatings. We know Benzedrine pills were coated in lycopodium powder in 1971. We know Coop had Benezedrine on him. Is it safe to conclude Coop was a routine user of Benezedrine?

lol.... I'm too lazy tonight to look it up - but I'm not sure that combination is only present in pill coatings? Cause I think I have looked this up before when we've discussed this - and other items or places that might have this combination include candy?, white fingerprint powder, paint powders, cosmetics, pharmacy, manufacturers of these types of products? It could be that was after 1971 though - It's late, but I'll be glad to look it up tomorrow evening. Enjoying the discussion.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 256]

  CCharger

In reference to contamination of lycopodium by FBI latex gloves...the lycopodium was present along with titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. This combination is only present in pill coatings. We know Benzedrine pills were coated in lycopodium powder in 1971. We know Coop had Benezedrine on him. Is it safe to conclude Coop was a routine user of Benezedrine?

  Quote

If the gloves and other sources can be ruled out then that is a
logical conclusion.

Lets assume he used benzedrine. Nothing too special about that.
The form might matter; maybe generic. Maybe he had a prescription for a condition? Btw Benzedrine was/is a trademark.

I see the logic you're persuing.

• Quote

[mrshutter45 21]

  smokin99

******In reference to contamination of lycopodium by FBI latex gloves...the lycopodium was present along with titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. This combination is only present in pill coatings. We know Benzedrine pills were coated in lycopodium powder in 1971. We know Coop had Benezedrine on him. Is it safe to conclude Coop was a routine user of Benezedrine?

My guess is 'maybe not'. Reason being if he was a long-term user of amphetamines his behavior probably would have been more bizarre than it was. 'Speed Freak' was a good descriptive term for those type of folks. Talking a million miles a minute, heavy sweating, paranoia, bizarro behavior, etc. Cooper didn't seem to exhibit those behaviors. Also, body odor was sometimes a problem.
......

That is not correct. You should have stopped with the Maybe not. I've known many people - truck drivers, cops, nurses, doctors, and musicians, who used amphetamines on a routine basis in the mid 70s and exhibited none of the behaviors, etc. that you describe.
Routine use vs overuse - which is what you are describing. LOL....oddly enough the only person that I knew who did exhibit the behaviors you describe when he overused and abused amphetamines was a Vietnam vet paratrooper.


back in the early 80's I worked for pizza hut. on Friday and Saturday nite rush hour we popped black beauties like candy. nobody had a clue what we were doing. I remember the tingle in the scalp. if you took more than two, you would get an upset stomach, be a little shaky, nothing real noticeable would ever happen. however, drugs act differently with each individual. one guy who worked with us had a problems when taking more than two of them. I don't remember the symptoms leading up to what would happen to him , but, basically he would crash, meaning he would get dizzy and was not able to stand up. his heart rate was beating a mile a minute.

I don't recall talking up a storm during the use of them. Cocaine is a different story. this is where you will talk up a storm. many signs show up during the use of this drug. excessive smoking, gritting your teeth or strange jaw movements, sniffing a lot and heavy drinking. constant disappearing acts. sometimes it's hard to notice any of these symptoms on certain individuals. I know many people in the past that used everyday and didn't show any signs at all, unless they were going over there usual daily amount. I knew a popular DJ "smile'n Jack Daniels" this guy drank like a fish, heavy coke user. I would drop off a pint to the station just to get him through the shift. again, nobody had a clue.

same for alcohol, working in the bar biz I can use the term "been there, done that" some people can drink all day and show zero signs of being "drunk" then you have guys/gals who have a couple and look like the town drunk. basically, unless you are street savvy, or have a trained eye, a lot of this can be over looked. not many books can teach you this.....unless you lived it, books can't tell you the real facts of it.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

Smokin99 says in part:

  Quote

'That is not correct. You should have stopped with the Maybe not.
I've known many people - truck drivers, cops, nurses, doctors, and musicians, who used amphetamines on a routine basis in the mid 70s and exhibited none of the behaviors, etc. that you describe.
Routine use vs overuse - which is what you are describing. LOL....oddly enough the only person that I knew who did exhibit the behaviors you describe when he overused and abused amphetamines was a Vietnam vet paratrooper...'

The question asked was: Could Cooper have been a long-term user of benzedrine, and I pointed out certain behaviors or physical effects of that.

You quote truck drivers and others you've known. That's fine. I can quote you a half-dozen clinical studies that say amphetamine abuse causes the effects I stated. It's well-known that the long-term use of drugs such as benzedrine DO result in certain effects and behaviors, and if therapy is not sought, oftens end up badly for the abuser. I think it's possible that Cooper had amphetamine for the hijacking, but there's no evidence he was an abuser, which was the question. He just didn't show the usual signs of abuse of benzedrine, which are more obvious than you might think.

Actually, if I remember correctly, the question mentioned nothing about abuse. The question was whether he could have been a routine user of Benzedrine. I thought and still think that there is a difference between routine use and chronic (long-term) or acute abuse - which is what I addressed in my post -- and tried to explain that these behaviors might not exhibit themselves with what I define as routine use but they might with "abuse".

I know what wikipedia says. I never said "ABUSE", long-term or otherwise, does not cause the behaviors you cited. I'm saying he could have been a routine user and you would never have known it. I'm saying this based on knowing and working with both routne users and acute/chronic abusers within and out of the medical field in the past.
My humble, but I will say learned opinion.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

  RobertMBlevins

I'm not a DNA expert by any means. But I did ask questions about the sample and I directed those to the Seattle FBI. The response I got was basically this:

They are sure the sample is good, that is, not contaminated by other people. But...they also say it was a partial, and the profile they have on it cannot positively ID a suspect. According to FBI agent Fred Gutt, it can only eliminate someone, not match them to the partial profile. I have no idea what this means. I suppose that if someone's DNA sample were compared to the profile they have, and if that person was NOT eliminated...then they would take a closer look at that suspect. Gutt also points out that the FBI is unwilling to even do additional testing on possible suspects unless evidence emerges pointing to that person as a 'good' suspect. He cites expense and and lack of a budget on the Cooper case, etc. In other words, they've already spent far more trying to solve it than in many other cases and they are not going to do further tests unless they have a good reason to do so...to justify any further expense.

I don't doubt that they told you the sample was not contaminated, but I wonder how they would know that? I would really like to know how they can be so confident of this. Does anyone know?

Say you've got evidence that has been in a manila folder along with other items. The tie gets touched by the ticket which has been touched by the ticket agent. These items are brought out occasionally for inspection or just to look at. Maybe someone forgets to wear gloves when inspecting the evidence. Who knows, maybe during the occasional retirement party. when things get a little rowdy someone tries on that infamous clip-on. Okay - I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek, but you get the gist.

We've seen pictures/video where it "appears" people were handling some of the evidence without gloves and discussed it here.

Just saying...if the ties is his - which apparently became a certainty at some point - I've just got my doubts on how they can say that the evidence - at least the tie - has been strictly controlled and therefore contaminate free, but I guess it's possible. It's also possible they have more evidence than they are presenting. LOL...as a matter of fact I would hope this is the case. :)

BTW...Speaking of evidence handling, where are those darn cigarette butts?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[CCharger 0]

I agree that the tie probably will not, in and of itself, lead to IDing Coop. However, I think it can be very valuable in providing clues that, when placed in context and paired with other facts, may point to or eliminate certain people.

Also, in reference to contamination, that particular brand was only available for the 12 months prior to the crime. It bore signatures of use by a heavy chain smoker which we know Coop was. All signs point to the most likely scenario being that it was Coop's tie.

[smokin99 0]

  CCharger

I agree that the tie probably will not, in and of itself, lead to IDing Coop. However, I think it can be very valuable in providing clues that, when placed in context and paired with other facts, may point to or eliminate certain people.

Also, in reference to contamination, that particular brand was only available for the 12 months prior to the crime. It bore signatures of use by a heavy chain smoker which we know Coop was. All signs point to the most likely scenario being that it was Coop's tie.

Good points.
Though I personally think that almost half a pack during a plane flight is getting on up thereDid ckret mention stained fingers or was that from Geoff Gray? I would love to know how much of Geoff's information was from the actual files and how much was literary license.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[CCharger 0]

1. The FBI bulletin of the crime said he was a "heavy smoker of Raleigh filter tip cigarettes".
2. Tina Mucklow described Coop as a "chain smoker".
3.His fingers bore tobacco stains indicative of habitual cigarette use.
4. He smoked 8 cigarettes in 5 hours.
5. His tie bore signatures of used matches most likely used to regularly light tobacco.

Based on these facts we can safely conclude Coop was a regular cigarette smoker.

Back to the Benezedrine, it was commonly used recreationally at this time. Many writers and artists used it to focus their creative energies. JFK was a habitual user as a matter of fact. It gives laser focus, boundless engery, and constant euphoria. It can also cause paranoia, restlessness, and, in excessive use, rage.

With this said, it should be noted that both stewardesses on the flight described Coop as "child-like" when the money was delivered and even said he "jumped up and down". Strikes me as odd behavior, but when paired with the amphetamine use, it sounds logical.

[EVickiW 0]

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fsis-ssji/firs-srij/bulletins/fing-empr-powder-poudre-eng.htm

On the url above, halfway down the page on Appendix B, forensic fingerprint powders were analyzed for lead. The chemicals (lycopodium, titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina) seem to be in the composition of some fingerprint powders.

  Quote

From the above webpage....Faurot brand fingerprint powder analysis

White

Titanium dioxide 51-62%
Zinc stearate >23%
Lycopodium >11%
Silica, amorphous <6%
Alumina Hydrate <5%
Zinc
Sulfur
Cobalt < 84 %
> 16 %
0.09 %

Chemist Grey

Titanium dioxide 40-49%
Lycopodium 35%
Aluminum >14.5%
Silica, amorphous <5%
Alumina Hydrate <4.5%
Titanium
Zinc
Aluminum < 52 %
< 47 %
< 2 %

The tie may have came in contact with these chemicals from the FBI's own forensic lab. Occam's Razor seems to explain it, being that the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[mrshutter45 21]

8 cigarettes is hardly a heavy smoker in 5 hour period. we have a factor to consider here. I don't care who you are, your going to be nervous. this will cause you to smoke more. I have smoked for years, but don't have marks on my fingers. perhaps it's a skin factor, I don't know. I haven't seen or heard about them talking about his fingers. where did you read this from?

I don't recall any mention of him jumping up and down either. were did this come from?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[CCharger 0]

  mrshutter45

8 cigarettes is hardly a heavy smoker in 5 hour period. we have a factor to consider here. I don't care who you are, your going to be nervous. this will cause you to smoke more. I have smoked for years, but don't have marks on my fingers. perhaps it's a skin factor, I don't know. I haven't seen or heard about them talking about his fingers. where did you read this from?

I don't recall any mention of him jumping up and down either. were did this come from?

Well, we can quibble over semantics in terms of what is a "heavy" or "chain" smoker. 8 cigarettes in 5 hours seems a lot to me. Based on this and other evidence, we can conclude that DB Cooper smoked, and smoked a lot.

The flight attendant (don't know which one) described Coop's fingers as being "discolored from tobacco smoke". This is common especially with very heavy smokers.

I have attached a picture as an example.

Lastly, the information on Coop "jumping up and down" comes from SA Carr who said that both stewardesses described this behavior and said he acted "child-like" when the money was delivered.

[mrshutter45 21]

"Unfortunately DNA can contaminate also. Who's to say it's not Larry Carr's skin cells on that tie? Has he been excluded or all of the other who knows how many people who have handled it. What about cross contamination? Even with gloves if you just put all the stuff in a bag who's to say it doesn't capture DNA from another item."

the DNA came from the tie clip, not the tie itself. Carr always had gloves on when presenting the evidence. if not mistaken the clip was taken off early in the investigation and put back on. they can't even confirm if it was a left hander that put it on upside down. I don't know how they handled it in the 70's.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[testxyz 0]

  Quote

Did Cooper go to the lav simply to take pills - he spent
considerable time there and communicated through the door.

I can't remember where, but I remember seeing reference to a phone /communication device in the lavatory of a commercial plane.

Does anyone know if this is true on a 727 or any commercial plane?

Attached is a picture of what I think is a accurate layout of the Cooper plane.
(found on the net)

[mrshutter45 21]

  testxyz

  Quote

Did Cooper go to the lav simply to take pills - he spent
considerable time there and communicated through the door.

I can't remember where, but I remember seeing reference to a phone /communication device in the lavatory of a commercial plane.

Does anyone know if this is true on a 727 or any commercial plane?

Attached is a picture of what I think is a accurate layout of the Cooper plane.
(found on the net)

personally I think he was afraid of being shot. possibly felt safer in the can. was the door shut all the way during the time he was in there? he's lucky someone didn't sneak on the plane and take him out.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

  CCharger

***8 cigarettes is hardly a heavy smoker in 5 hour period. we have a factor to consider here. I don't care who you are, your going to be nervous. this will cause you to smoke more. I have smoked for years, but don't have marks on my fingers. perhaps it's a skin factor, I don't know. I haven't seen or heard about them talking about his fingers. where did you read this from?

I don't recall any mention of him jumping up and down either. were did this come from?

Well, we can quibble over semantics in terms of what is a "heavy" or "chain" smoker. 8 cigarettes in 5 hours seems a lot to me. Based on this and other evidence, we can conclude that DB Cooper smoked, and smoked a lot.

The flight attendant (don't know which one) described Coop's fingers as being "discolored from tobacco smoke". This is common especially with very heavy smokers.

I have attached a picture as an example.

Lastly, the information on Coop "jumping up and down" comes from SA Carr who said that both stewardesses described this behavior and said he acted "child-like" when the money was delivered.

I have heard the "child like" reference before, but not the jumping up and down. I would conclude that skin tone plays a factor in the stains on the fingers. do you have any of these sources available?

I don't think the smoking will tell anything if you ask me. he smoked, end of story is the way I see it. millions smoke and drink. as mentioned, you smoke more if you are nervous, so I doubt this area will tell much of anything. I know people who don't smoke until they drink. lots of variables again that point to nothing.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 53]

  testxyz

  Quote

Did Cooper go to the lav simply to take pills - he spent
considerable time there and communicated through the door.

I can't remember where, but I remember seeing reference to a phone /communication device in the lavatory of a commercial plane.

Does anyone know if this is true on a 727 or any commercial plane?

Attached is a picture of what I think is a accurate layout of the Cooper plane.
(found on the net)

The NWA aircraft hijacked by Cooper was a 727-052 (the last three digits may not be entirely correct) which pre-dated the 727-100 shown in the schematic. In addition, each airline had their own layout of seats, meal service stations, lavatories, etc..

In the NWA aircraft, Cooper was seated in the last row of seats on the right side and there was a lavatory immediately behind him.

On the left side of the aircraft, directly behind the last row of seats which were opposite Cooper and directly across the aisle from the lavatory, was a flight attendant work station which included an "interphone". The flight attendants could make announcements over the cabin public address system and talk directly to the cockpit crew using that interphone.

So Cooper stayed close to his seat, which was adjacent to the lavatory, and kept track of the flight attendants that used the interphone to pass Coopers demands to the cockpit crew. He stayed in a small area until the flight was enroute to Reno and Tina had gone to the cockpit.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

after reading this can we say Cooper had a health issue?

Yellow-stained fingers from smoking has been identified by the British National Health Service (NHS), as a common side-effect. Caused by toxins found in tobacco, stains are not only cosmetically unsightly, but may also indicate a more serious smoking-related health-risk.

Lung Disease
More seriously, yellow fingers could indicate lung disease, a condition known as "yellow nail syndrome." Most commonly associated with lymphedema, a genetic disorder, it has been identified by the Maryland Medical Center as a symptom of lung disorders. A report, "Tobacco Use and Skin Disease," published in the "Southern Medical Journal" in 2001, also linked "yellow nail syndrome" to malignancies caused by smoking.

so, is it a heavy smoker, or a serious health issue?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[CCharger 0]

  testxyz

  Quote

Did Cooper go to the lav simply to take pills - he spent
considerable time there and communicated through the door.

I can't remember where, but I remember seeing reference to a phone /communication device in the lavatory of a commercial plane.

Does anyone know if this is true on a 727 or any commercial plane?

Attached is a picture of what I think is a accurate layout of the Cooper plane.
(found on the net)

The interphone that connected the cockpit with the cabin was located just outside of the lavatory at the rear of the plane. You literally stepped out of the lavatory, and it was to your right.

I'm not sure if Cooper being a smoker is relevant either. Someone asked for evidence of him being a smoker and I supplied it. However, it does help to build a profile of the man I believe. I do not have links to these particular sources. Bruce A. Smith provided some of them.

[smokin99 0]

  EVickiW

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fsis-ssji/firs-srij/bulletins/fing-empr-powder-poudre-eng.htm

On the url above, halfway down the page on Appendix B, forensic fingerprint powders were analyzed for lead. The chemicals (lycopodium, titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina) seem to be in the composition of some fingerprint powders.

  Quote

From the above webpage....Faurot brand fingerprint powder analysis

White

Titanium dioxide 51-62%
Zinc stearate >23%
Lycopodium >11%
Silica, amorphous <6%
Alumina Hydrate <5%
Zinc
Sulfur
Cobalt < 84 %
> 16 %
0.09 %

Chemist Grey

Titanium dioxide 40-49%
Lycopodium 35%
Aluminum >14.5%
Silica, amorphous <5%
Alumina Hydrate <4.5%
Titanium
Zinc
Aluminum < 52 %
< 47 %
< 2 %

The tie may have came in contact with these chemicals from the FBI's own forensic lab. Occam's Razor seems to explain it, being that the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Yes. I noticed that about the fingerprint powder also- does seem pretty likely. I was going to try and confirm that this was the makeup in 70s. Though I guess it could have been contaminated, for want of a better word, after the 70s.

Additionally- all the statements about smoking, and what Tina said, the bennies, etc. A lot of "facts" have come out in books and all of the books contradict each other in terms of "facts". This is why I ask- how much poetic license, if any, did Geoff gray take with the facts in order to keep the read interesting? Serious question that I want to know before I start using his stuff as a reference. But that's just me. :) sometimes I get hung up in details.

Once I tried to start a spreadsheet listing all of the knowns and all of the contradictions in different books, but I gave up. :)

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[CCharger 0]

  mrshutter45

after reading this can we say Cooper had a health issue?

Yellow-stained fingers from smoking has been identified by the British National Health Service (NHS), as a common side-effect. Caused by toxins found in tobacco, stains are not only cosmetically unsightly, but may also indicate a more serious smoking-related health-risk.

Lung Disease
More seriously, yellow fingers could indicate lung disease, a condition known as "yellow nail syndrome." Most commonly associated with lymphedema, a genetic disorder, it has been identified by the Maryland Medical Center as a symptom of lung disorders. A report, "Tobacco Use and Skin Disease," published in the "Southern Medical Journal" in 2001, also linked "yellow nail syndrome" to malignancies caused by smoking.

so, is it a heavy smoker, or a serious health issue?

I think you may be on to something...

We know that Benezedrine was used to treat bronchial ailments....

Here is what a quick internet search provided on yellow nail syndrome...

"Approximately 40% will also have bronchiectasis (lung disease). It is also associated with chronic sinusitis and persistent coughing.

And then it said this...wow!

"There is some evidence it may be caused by titanium, either implanted for medical reasons or through eating various foods containing titanium dioxide. In patients where titanium exposure was thought to be causative, recovery occurred over a period of several months."

This is a stretch...but perhaps due to Coop's exposure to titanium he acquired yellow nail syndrome that required treatment with Benzedrine??

Would love for someone to follow up...

Here is a link with more info on this...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176400/

[mrshutter45 21]

  CCharger

***after reading this can we say Cooper had a health issue?

Yellow-stained fingers from smoking has been identified by the British National Health Service (NHS), as a common side-effect. Caused by toxins found in tobacco, stains are not only cosmetically unsightly, but may also indicate a more serious smoking-related health-risk.

Lung Disease
More seriously, yellow fingers could indicate lung disease, a condition known as "yellow nail syndrome." Most commonly associated with lymphedema, a genetic disorder, it has been identified by the Maryland Medical Center as a symptom of lung disorders. A report, "Tobacco Use and Skin Disease," published in the "Southern Medical Journal" in 2001, also linked "yellow nail syndrome" to malignancies caused by smoking.

so, is it a heavy smoker, or a serious health issue?

I think you may be on to something...

We know that Benezedrine was used to treat bronchial ailments....

Here is what a quick internet search provided on yellow nail syndrome...

"Approximately 40% will also have bronchiectasis (lung disease). It is also associated with chronic sinusitis and persistent coughing.

And then it said this...wow!

"There is some evidence it may be caused by titanium, either implanted for medical reasons or through eating various foods containing titanium dioxide. In patients where titanium exposure was thought to be causative, recovery occurred over a period of several months."

This is a stretch...but perhaps due to Coop's exposure to titanium he acquired yellow nail syndrome that required treatment with Benzedrine??

Would love for someone to follow up...


personally, I just don't think we have enough info on Cooper. the FBI has the key. we know a shitload more was said on the radio transcripts. lots of things have been stretched to the extreme on just about every quote, all the way down to his description. we can only speculate on most of these things. sometimes something can be found doing this. its a shame the FBI will not release what they have. odds are Cooper is dead at this point, or very close to it if he is still alive. I think it makes them look more foolish holding all of this back. it's pretty obvious already Cooper zapped them good, wheather he made it or not. lick your wounds a release the files.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[CCharger 0]

This is from the website of the EPA...

"Diseases of the lung (pleural diseases) have been associated with chronic (long-term) occupational exposure of titanium tetrachloride in titanium metal production workers. Chronic inhalation exposure may result in upper respiratory tract irritation, chronic bronchitis, cough, bronchoconstriction, wheezing, chemical pneumonitis, or pulmonary edema in humans."

Clearly, we are making leaps here. But we know Coop had Benzedrine. We know Benzedrine is used to treat respiratory ailments. There is evidence that Coop worked around titanium, perhaps metal fabrication or production. Discolored fingers aside, perhaps, Coop was suffering from titanium exposure and was prescribed Benzedrine.