DB Cooper

[mrshutter45 21]

have you noticed Himmelsbach says Cooper jumped over LA Center? that is about 3 NM west of the path. this area is where the plane was parallel with LA Center and turns eastward towards Battleground.


Blevins, you do realize your not suppose to advertise on here don't ya?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert, your are going against lots of things trying to prove a short bald guy was Cooper. the description is pretty accurate given the fact that several were with Cooper an extended amount of time. this puts a hole again in your trying to use bad descriptions to fit KC into the pool.

Hair on his head.
Tina was 5' 8" reports she had to look up at Cooper.
KC is 5' 8" logic tells me he would be looking dead in her eye.

it appears the KC story was started by Lyle correct? the guy you don't trust testimony wise. several reports of him wanting to make a movie about his Brother vs proving he was Cooper. money doesn't have to be his motive. he seems to have cared very much for him. possibly enough to stretch some truth in his statements.

I have said this before. I have not seen R99's full conclusion about what he is stating, but, it appears to me that he is indeed just like those really smart guys you speak of. he's a Pilot and a Aeronautical engineer. I think I'll wait and listen to his evidence before I listen to your constant rejection of this claim. it's ok for you to turn the table without any proof. that damn path is dead nut center...right?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

why don't you give him a chance before you give your expert opinion? human error happens far to often. calculations are proven wrong.


speaking of wrong. the FBI looks at Cooper like this.

"He is 5'10 to 6'1 (Mucklow is 5'8 and spent 5 hours with Cooper, she would know if he was her height or taller. Have someone 5'8 stand next to someone 6 feet, the difference is obvious. Better yet, position yourself at a level of 5'8 and look at someone at a 6' elevation. Now spend 5 hours with that person, you'll know the difference. No one put Cooper under 5'10.

-He had olive skin (no make-up, neither Mucklow, Schaffner or Hancock made comment on make-up which would have been very obvious. Again, do the math, put dark makeup on someone then sit next to them with your shoulders touching, you can see the make-up.)

-He had dark hair, receding with sideburns (no wig, this would have been painfully obvious, if a man was wearing a wig with a receding hair line and side burns everyone would have noticed, especially Mucklow and Schaffner.)

-He was med built (no one put him over 190 lbs, in fact most put him 180 or under. Find a man 6 foot 180 lbs, thats a med to thin build.)

These are the facts on his physical make-up, if your suspect does not match these you may want to start looking at someone else."

the pieces of the puzzle to KC have been put together long before you came along. (*laughs*)

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Robert 99 stated:

Quote

Dingledik, Feel free to completely ignore Blevins and don't, under any circumstances, buy a book from him. Jo Weber and Bob Knoss are the other two "cases" on this thread.

Robert 99 was that REALLY necessary?!

The thread is here because JO WEBER started a thread that was attacked by a lot of individuals only interested in dispruption and not actually interested in the case.

That thread was closed and then QUADE started this on with a very serious introduction and the thread is headed in the same direction as the first one.

One can agree to disagree, but what you just did above is unacceptable. Let the man read the thread and judge for himself. I am not a "case" I am the REAL thing and not some NUT!

Mrshutter has gotten out of hand with his attacks on me. He actually expects a senior citizen to be able to keep up with 8 yrs of postings and interactive conversations.

With out going back and finding the date of the post and the post made before and after a statement, I have NO way of knowing if it was the banter going on or why a statement was made. Many of us make tongue in cheek remarks we later regret.

Without finding the specific postings in that time era I will state off the top of my head that it sounds like something taken out of context. At one time there was a young man who asked me to go along with what he said. He did NOT want me to blow his theory and even then I could not understand and I ARGUED with him on the phone that if I said Duane did NOT taken me to Tena's bar it had to have been a result of some continue bantering as MrShutter has been doing lately.

I have NO idea why I would have said anything like but my communications to Mr. Himmelsbach Tena's bar was discussed in 1996 after I read Max's book and he sent me his book. Until Mr. H sent his book I had absolutely no knowledge of the specifics of the case. I didn't nave a map of the area and did NOT know where Tena's bar was. I did NOT have a WA state map - just a map of 1/2 of the USA.

When I got Mr. H's book - I was off the wall. I still had NO detailed information about where Tena's Bar was - just my memory of the house and the treed parking area and the fence and the gate. Duane leaving me in the car.

I had discussed this with Mr. H before I got his book. This was when I knew
Tena's bar was one of the places Duane took me. No one could identify the other locations and I did NOT find it until 2001 when I was there with the Crew, but NOT until when GOOD people provided transportation and their knowledge of the area (two of these women had been in contact in 1971) with the FBI about something they knew.

There was little follow up the "sitings" of Cooper most not given much credence. The agent doing the interview did NOT take any notes at all....this was noted by these individuals.

2001 - I found the area across from the PDX only because of a good citizen who lived in that area.

2001 - I found Lake LaCames and the "guide" provide by the crew did not have a clue what I was describing. The places they took me to were FAST driving and without any of them having long time knowledge of the area - it was just a lot of driving around. i was also intimidated by the cameras and the questions.

I remember when they took me to the Lewis River - I wanted to go to the places Duane took me and what I had described did NOT resemble the Lewis River. When we arrived - at the motel they made the clips of Mr. H. It was interesting - but Duane took me NO where near those raging waters that I saw on that day in 2001 with the crew.

I kept explaining it was quiet water and it was along the Columbia and we had turned off HWY 14 into Washougal and it was beyong that! The took me to the Washougal River and again I told them it was wider and quieter. But they had rivers on the brain and not one took me to the Lake and explained it was long and narrow in 1979....and it had changed as the lake filled up....that I had been on a lake and not a river.

ONLY after the crew left and I was with locals did I finally have some resolutions about where I was. I was exhausted from the activities with the crew. They were very nice, but we had to accomplish a lot in 3 days. I guess the expected me to know the area better - why I wish there had been a profession guide who could have sat with me and have heard the places I describe...and have shown me a map. I did NOT have a map until after I left WA for that Documentary. I had meant to buy one - but, I forgot.

I think I acquired a state map on that 2001 trip, but it was not very good....and not until I was ready to leave. It was the blind leading the blind. Things had changed. but NOT as much as it had changed when I went on my own in 2010 at the cost of 5K and was behind the wheel of a rental car. On that trip I let my memory be my guide - WHY I went all the was past The Dalles almost to the State line and then I started the trip the way I remembered it - I let my memory be my map and it worked.

Robert 99 I would appreciate an apology for your biased introduction of me to the new guy! Do NOT judge me until you meet me and see all of the work I have done over the last 17 yrs.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

"Mrshutter has gotten out of hand with his attacks on me. He actually expects a senior citizen to be able to keep up with 8 yrs of postings and interactive conversations."

Jo, you are the one out of line. I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking your proof. you have called me names, accused me of drinking. the last statement several days ago, you accused me of being on crack! so don't try and cover with the senior citizen thing. I have been more than respectful with presenting things to you. can you say the same? nope.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 247]

RobertMBlevins

******Guys, my theory is not new but I really think he landed in the Columbia river. But what happened to the parachute?

if you are saying it was a no pull. it's would be attached to him for a period of time I would say? if he landed in the river...where is the body?

welcome to the form......

Yes, welcome. River landing? Maybe. One point I've brought up about it is if you calculate the total amount of possible water landing against landing on ground, the chances are far greater he came to the ground. There's just a lot more dirt and rock between Seattle and Portland than lakes and rivers. It's strictly an 'odds' thing, and completely non-scientific.
I am the one who came up with the land vs water "odds thing",
not you, thank you8!

Thanks for your comment8: "odds are not scientific".

No wonder you8 tangled with MeyerLouie the mathematician!

[Robert99 50]

RobertMBlevins

You [Robert99] also say THIS:

Quote

'The money found at Tena Bar and the placard from the aft stairs that was found further north, are the only two pieces of physical evidence indicating the actual flight path of the airliner. Blevins, for instance, tends to dismiss the Tena Bar money as not an indication of the actual flight path since it does not fit into his theory that the flight path was further east...'

The placard is a known factor, and indicates the flight path at that point very well. The money found at Tena Bar, not necessarily so, because no one can say how it arrived there. The idea that Flight 305 was several miles EAST of Tena Bar is the established flight path, (not 'my theory' lol) so it is YOU who are venturing the theory.

And your theory goes against what was plotted by the FBI, Paul Soderlind and his team at NWA, and the available radar data. Although you keep denying it, you are determined to move the flight to the west side of the Interstate 5 freeway in your attempt to explain the money at Tena Bar.

Problem: You don't have any proof, or at least enough to go against the official flight path established decades ago by the people and items I listed above.

Blevins, Since I am the one who did the calculations concerning the point where the placard separated from the airliner, I feel that I probably know as much as you about what it means.

First, my point was to do a "conservative" estimate of the separation point. That is, the distance calculated was the "minimum" that the airliner would have been from the location where the placard was found at the time they separated. A number of estimates were required for this calculation and the "minimum" distance calculated was two or three nautical miles west of the centerline of V-23. The "actual" distance could have been greater. And if it was greater, it would undermine your own theory even more.

Second, the FBI map of the first predicted jump area included a several page discussion of radar accuracies with respect to both range and azimuth from the radar site. So where was the radar located that was used in the preparation of that predicted jump area? Surely you wouldn't place your total faith in something that important without knowing the facts.

Third, the positions and times on the FBI flight map have been discussed to death on this thread several times already. Did the airliner really fly three nautical miles in one 60 second period, then fly six nautical miles in the next 60 second period while maintaining the same airspeed? If so, the laws of physics as understood for centuries previously will have to be re-written.

Fourth, no pilot would fly the segmented circle around the west side of Portland as indicated on the FBI map.

Fifth, what do those four red "x" marks on the southwest side of Portland mean? Is the fact that a direct line between those marks and the Mayfield/Malay Intersection passes over Tena Bar purely coincidental?

Sixth, why did the chase aircraft, including Himmelsbach in his helicopter, head for the southwest side of Portland when they were trying to intercept the airliner?

Finally, if the "official flight path" you claim to believe is so accurate, why hasn't Cooper been found in the last 42 years?

Robert99

[skyjack71 0]

mrshutter45

"Mrshutter has gotten out of hand with his attacks on me. He actually expects a senior citizen to be able to keep up with 8 yrs of postings and interactive conversations."

Jo, you are the one out of line. I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking your proof. you have called me names, accused me of drinking. the last statement several days ago, you accused me of being on crack! so don't try and cover with the senior citizen thing. I have been more than respectful with presenting things to you. can you say the same? nope.

Excuse me - I may have asked you what you were smoking. AND yes, I consider your taking snippets of postings I made over a 7 yr period out of context & without supporting factors going on prior to the posting as harrassment!

If you consider how many posting I have made and how many times I have had to repeat myself - you also would NOT say something the same way every time and make tongue in cheek statements out of exasperation!

I also make the mistake of continueing to post after I have taken medication - not a GOOD thing at all.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

skyjack71

Robert 99 I would appreciate an apology for your biased introduction of me to the new guy! Do NOT judge me until you meet me and see all of the work I have done over the last 17 yrs.

Jo, Please define "apology" for me. As I remember it, just a few weeks ago you called me a name and then claimed it was all my fault that you did so.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

skyjack71

***"Mrshutter has gotten out of hand with his attacks on me. He actually expects a senior citizen to be able to keep up with 8 yrs of postings and interactive conversations."

Jo, you are the one out of line. I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking your proof. you have called me names, accused me of drinking. the last statement several days ago, you accused me of being on crack! so don't try and cover with the senior citizen thing. I have been more than respectful with presenting things to you. can you say the same? nope.

Excuse me - I may have asked you what you were smoking. AND yes, I consider your taking snippets of postings I made over a 7 yr period out of context & without supporting factors going on prior to the posting as harrassment!

If you consider how many posting I have made and how many times I have had to repeat myself - you also would NOT say something the same way every time and make tongue in cheek statements out of exasperation!

I also make the mistake of continueing to post after I have taken medication - not a GOOD thing at all.


here is exactly what you said. if I didn't attach it to my post on page 1874. it would have been gone because you removed a lot of your comments an hour later!

"take a little of the same crap you continue to DISH out!Tongue
You sound like someone on crack or with a discipline problem lately.
In fact that is exactly how your post are sounding for the last few days - full of crap and just looking to pick a fight with someone or anyone you can bully around."

they are not snippets Jo. entire posts. direct questions, with direct answers.

I asked a simple question of why you made those statement. then you wanted proof. I showed it. that wasn't enough so I put the link up. then you blame me for attacking you? hardly Jo. you are very one sided with this whole Duane thing. that's why you are stuck here. you need to stop arguing with people and go public and settle it once and for all. are you scared of the out come? I would be.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

Second, the FBI map of the first predicted jump area included a several page discussion of radar accuracies with respect to both range and azimuth from the radar site. So where was the radar located that was used in the preparation of that predicted jump area? Surely you wouldn't place your total faith in something that important without knowing the facts.

Robert99

Hope I am not misquoting who said what, but would you please explain the statement above...and also answer this question.

Did the VOR located West of Battleground and off of NE 112 Av
have anything to do with calculating the plane's position? I ask this because Duane took me to that VOR and mentioned THE GUYS working there - he also mention a small air strip North of there. That airstip is N.W. of Battleground and on that same Road.

Frankly I do NOT understand Duane's connections to "the guys" and why they would be working on the VOR (I have no idea what yrs he is referring to). Duane also POINTED out ever damn signal tower from the time we entered OR & WA to just before we entered NV. Who would work on Signal towers and VOR's and have knowledge of every darn airstrip along our route? What would that persons employment have been.

You seem a logical person to answer this question and if you wish to answer it in a PM - that is ok - I have not blocked anyone from my PMs.

WHO the HELL was Duane Weber and what did he do besides spend many yrs in one prison after another - how and why would Weber have the knowledge of towers, Vor's, Power Lines, Pipelines and be able to point out ever damn airstrip in the area? He certainly didn't learn these things from a prison cell and not have ever have worked in WA or lived in WA (as the FBI has basically declared).

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Robert99

***

Robert 99 I would appreciate an apology for your biased introduction of me to the new guy! Do NOT judge me until you meet me and see all of the work I have done over the last 17 yrs.

Jo, Please define "apology" for me. As I remember it, just a few weeks ago you called me a name and then claimed it was all my fault that you did so.

Robert99

Sorry Robert I don't remember that and I know I have been testy lately because there is so much going on and medications really mess me up.
Again Sorry!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Amazon 7]

I think a few people should try smoking....... the peace pipe....

FerChrissake

[skyjack71 0]

Jo Stated:

Quote

I may have asked you what you were smoking. AND yes, I consider your taking snippets of postings I made over a 7 yr period out of context & without supporting factors going on prior to the posting as harrassment!

If you consider how many posting I have made and how many times I have had to repeat myself - you also would NOT say something the same way every time and make tongue in cheek statements out of exasperation!

=================
Mrshutter stated:
here is exactly what you said. if I didn't attach it to my post on page 1874. it would have been gone because you removed a lot of your comments an hour later!

=================
Jo replies: I rarely remove a post unless I make one and when it posts realize it made no sense because I continued to post after Ihad taken medication.

You quoted me on that post and it is difficult for me to believe those word came out. You must have been testing me to the max.
Rarely in my life have I ever said the word Crack - I have been known to ask someone what they have been smoking - but to use the word Crack - Well, I apologize that is totally totally out of character for me.

My stress level due to UNRELATED Cooper things right now are consuming me. If you wish I will explain it in a PM, but NOT on the thread. I try NOT to think about what is happening & knowing there is nothing I can do to change it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

Jo, are you now stating you didn't say this either? are you kidding me? I should have screened shot it if I would have known you would try to deny another post......

ok, I jumped the gun on that one. didn't really read the post good enough. disregard statement above.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 247]

RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Dingledik, Feel free to completely ignore Blevins and don't, under any circumstances, buy a book from him. Jo Weber and Bob Knoss are the other two "cases" on this thread...'

You know, Robert...I got banned for a couple of weeks for saying stuff like that about other posters. I wouldn't be surprised if a warning from Quade comes your way. And I agree...you shouldn't buy a book from me. Anytime anyone researching the Cooper case wants a copy of Blast in PDF for their device, all they have to do is email me and I always provide it FREE.

You also say THIS:

***'The money found at Tena Bar and the placard from the aft stairs that was found further north, are the only two pieces of physical evidence indicating the actual flight path of the airliner. Blevins, for instance, tends to dismiss the Tena Bar money as not an indication of the actual flight path since it does not fit into his theory that the flight path was further east...'

The placard is a known factor, and indicates the flight path at that point very well. The money found at Tena Bar, not necessarily so, because no one can say how it arrived there. The idea that Flight 305 was several miles EAST of Tena Bar is the established flight path, (not 'my theory' lol) so it is YOU who are venturing the theory.

And your theory goes against what was plotted by the FBI, Paul Soderlind and his team at NWA, and the available radar data. Although you keep denying it, you are determined to move the flight to the west side of the Interstate 5 freeway in your attempt to explain the money at Tena Bar.

Problem: You don't have any proof, or at least enough to go against the official flight path established decades ago by the people and items I listed above.

Here's my message for Dingledik: Listen to whomever you choose, anytime you want. Or don't want. Welcome.

Blevins, you continually cite the NWA, Solderlind, FBI, and
"radar data".

So given your intimate knowledge of this matter I presume
the same radar data plotted both illustrations of the Path, for
the same ground ? (Area on FBI map between blue lines is
roughly the same as on the NWA map)

Please note: there are time stamps on the FBI plot and no time
stamps on the NWA plot.

Are these plots identical and if not, why?

Yea or Ney, or do you wish to waffle?

[mrshutter45 21]

is all of this worth arguing night after night? I think we can move forward now. don't you?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

WHAT.... are you trying to upset the Dropzone Dot Com Dead Horse Society???

[377 22]

Amazon

WHAT.... are you trying to upset the Dropzone Dot Com Dead Horse Society???

Good one Amazon. I needed a laugh after the Seahawks humiliated the Niners this evening.

Bad tandem pair camera flyer canopy collision in Argentina. 3 badly injured. I dont like those tandem master super wide angle wrist cams that are putting camera flyers out of business but I guess they increase safety by eliminating a collision risk.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

mrshutter45

is all of this worth arguing night after night? I think we can move forward now. don't you?

I hope - after all Quade has banned individuals for less, but PLEASE stop and think about how long I have done this - and as many posts as I have made - I am pretty consistent. I make mistakes & if I am tired and perplexed and sometimes - especially before and after the surgeries there was confusion in my postings. There are times I should NOT be posting at all.

Why I needed more information than you provided to go back and see the dates and to look at the postings for several days before - to see WHY I might have made such statements.

The format you provided did NOT allow me to do this. May seem simple for you, but very difficult for me. My searching ability even in the thread is VERY limited. I will re-interate if I said Duane did NOT take me to Tena's bar it had to reflect some post before that or total exasperation or I changed subject in mid post.

I do make tongue in cheek remarks. when perplexed. I do not clarify when I am being snide and it is best described by someone shrugging their shoulder and finally saying - "Ok, your right".

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

Who would work on Signal towers and VOR's and have knowledge of every darn airstrip along our route? What would that persons employment have been.

Jo, you are trying to see a pattern in noise. The small airstrips without FAA operated Navaids wouldn't get any attention from the techs who work on VORs. Many of those so called "signal towers" had nothing to do with aircraft navigation.

Cooper had no means by which to use VOR signals for planning his exit point. You keep coming back to VORs but they had no utility for Cooper.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

skyjack71

***


Second, the FBI map of the first predicted jump area included a several page discussion of radar accuracies with respect to both range and azimuth from the radar site. So where was the radar located that was used in the preparation of that predicted jump area? Surely you wouldn't place your total faith in something that important without knowing the facts.

Robert99

Hope I am not misquoting who said what, but would you please explain the statement above...and also answer this question.

Did the VOR located West of Battleground and off of NE 112 Av
have anything to do with calculating the plane's position? I ask this because Duane took me to that VOR and mentioned THE GUYS working there - he also mention a small air strip North of there. That airstip is N.W. of Battleground and on that same Road.

Jo, Radar positions were not as accurate in the early 1970s as you apparently believe. The write-up with the original predicted jump area discusses those accuracies.

The only VOR in the Portland area that defines V-23 is the Battleground VORTAC. In 1971, the Battleground VORTAC was known as the Portland VORTAC and located in exactly the same geographical position. The FAA just changed the name, everything else about it stayed the same.

Robert99

[georger 247]

RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Jo, Radar positions were not as accurate in the early 1970s as you apparently believe. The write-up with the original predicted jump area discusses those accuracies...'

Well, I'll bet they were at least REASONABLY accurate. Otherwise the 1970's would be historical for all the mid-air collisions of commercial aircraft, especially between Seattle and Portland. You could make a nice living just scrapping out all that wreckage along the I-5 corridor. Now you're trying to blame crappy radar for the reason you put Flight 305 on the west side of the freeway north of Portland - and by several miles.

Unproven. I want to see something solid that actually proves, or calls into serious question with evidence, that all those people were wrong on where 305 was between SeaTac and PDX.

Paul Soderlind (and his team at NWA) weren't exactly slouches at their jobs. And they had time on the ground to plan the tracking of 305, since Cooper was delayed at SeaTac a couple of hours.

Excerpt from Soderlind's obituary:

***'Soderlind retired in 1973. He later became a consultant for Boeing, Embry-Riddle, the U.S. Air Force and the Federal Aviation Administration, among others.

In 1997, he was inducted into the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame and was the first to get the FAA Citation and Gold Medal for Extraordinary Service to Aviation Safety...'

He was also a pilot for NWA, and pretty much the greatest employee the airline ever had. There's even a scholarship program in his name. I think I mentioned he was a real smart guy. And if his team says Flight 305 was here or there (they had a great hand in the creation of the FBI's flight map) I will believe he and his results rather than yours, unless you can prove otherwise.

You are entitrely correctomundo! Congratumachions!

That is why, they had caught Cooper within 30minutes,
took back the money, slapped him on the wrist saying
"Bad Boy! Bad boy!", and escourted him back to his trailer with
Geestman. After which they spread a little cash around at
Tina Bar, sat laughing and tipped a few beers.

Then dropped the chute off at Amboy on their way to the next
bar.



Have you ever seen the Soderlind Report !? Woooops!
Maybe you can get a copy from the Soderlind family.

[mrshutter45 21]

"Well, I'll bet they were at least REASONABLY accurate"

this is what we are talking about. it is possible mistakes were made.

now, the description is a little different. lots of people seen Cooper. none of them said he had no hair on his head. I don't think stress played any factor in it. Tina was with him for 5 hours. most agree Tina & Flo's description was similar. the only ones who disagree are trying to produce a suspect. calculations and electronics have a much higher rate of error. I don't see sideburns on KC? the passengers have different descriptions because they failed to have a reason for remembering him. that's where your part comes into play on accuracy of descriptions.

what would you conclude if I found a suspect that was 5' 9" blonde hair & hazel eyes, light complexion. a parking ticket from 11/24/71 was found. had parachute training. the family threw him under the bus saying they always thought he was Cooper. records of employment showing he was missing that day? do I have the makings for alerting the FBI and making several book deals? or perhaps just a coincidence? my guess is that the FBI knows a lot more about Cooper than they tell. I also find it hard that the living witnesses haven't seen the suspects online or on the television. you guys play it out as if nobody important in the case knows anything about your suspects?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 50]

RobertMBlevins

Robert99 says in part:

Quote

'Jo, Radar positions were not as accurate in the early 1970s as you apparently believe. The write-up with the original predicted jump area discusses those accuracies...'

Well, I'll bet they were at least REASONABLY accurate. Otherwise the 1970's would be historical for all the mid-air collisions of commercial aircraft, especially between Seattle and Portland. You could make a nice living just scrapping out all that wreckage along the I-5 corridor. Now you're trying to blame crappy radar for the reason you put Flight 305 on the west side of the freeway north of Portland - and by several miles.

Unproven. I want to see something solid that actually proves, or calls into serious question with evidence, that all those people were wrong on where 305 was between SeaTac and PDX.

Paul Soderlind (and his team at NWA) weren't exactly slouches at their jobs. And they had time on the ground to plan the tracking of 305, since Cooper was delayed at SeaTac a couple of hours.

Excerpt from Soderlind's obituary:

***'Soderlind retired in 1973. He later became a consultant for Boeing, Embry-Riddle, the U.S. Air Force and the Federal Aviation Administration, among others.

In 1997, he was inducted into the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame and was the first to get the FAA Citation and Gold Medal for Extraordinary Service to Aviation Safety...'

He was also a pilot for NWA, and pretty much the greatest employee the airline ever had. There's even a scholarship program in his name. I think I mentioned he was a real smart guy. And if his team says Flight 305 was here or there (they had a great hand in the creation of the FBI's flight map) I will believe he and his results rather than yours, unless you can prove otherwise.

Blevins, As people have pointed out to you repeatedly, you need to actually read the posts before replying to them.

Paul Soderlind and NWA people are reportedly the very ones who prepared the initial jump area estimate, and they included a write-up which discussed the accuracy of range and azimuth radar data. You should read their write-up. And if you ever do read it, the accuracy might come as a surprise to you. But I am sure that you can waffle a bit on that point.

In the early 1970s, the basic goal of ATC radar operators was to keep the radar returns from merging. This was a "relative" position control rather than an "absolute" position control.

If you are interested in learning anything about aviation, you should go to the FAA's web page and get copies of some of their publications, some of which can be downloaded without charge. Admittedly, this would reduce your time for monitoring and pontificating about ever post on this thread and working on your next "authoritative" book on whatever it is you are writing about. You are the leading expert on just about everything aren't you?

Robert99