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georger 247
QuoteQuoteok, ive asked this several times. IS it Possible the Cooper went into the bathroom and somehow got into the "toilet Tank to hide and never made the jump???
There are indications that he was going into the bathroom for a long time.Cruise Ships have been known to make Dumps at Sea.
The devil made me do it.
Oh God, that means a technical discussin about every nut and bolt in the Lav and plumbing system is coming up. Sluggo!?
Georger
377 22
Quoteok, ive asked this several times. IS it Possible the Cooper went into the bathroom and somehow got into the "toilet Tank to hide and never made the jump???
There are indications that he was going into the bathroom for a long time.
It is not possible, really and truly. Next idea?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
QuoteOh God, that means a technical discussin about every nut and bolt in the Lav and plumbing system is coming up. Sluggo!?
Georger
====================
Not from me you don't. I just think if is funny as all get out. He went to the bathroom before he put the chute on. WHAT did he do in that bathroom? if it had been 2008 they would have to look for DNA.
CKRET????????
Good question - did they check the trash and the bath for prints? Only Ckret would know this.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 247
QuoteQuoteOh God, that means a technical discussin about every nut and bolt in the Lav and plumbing system is coming up. Sluggo!?
Georger
====================
Not from me you don't. I just think if is funny as all get out. He went to the bathroom before he put the chute on. WHAT did he do in that bathroom? if it had been 2008 they would have to look for DNA.
:::::
I thought it was kind of funny too. What did he do in the Lav if he had a chute on? How did he? Damned
good thing he didnt ask for a snowmobile suit, I guess.
George
georger 247
QuoteQuoteok, ive asked this several times. IS it Possible the Cooper went into the bathroom and somehow got into the "toilet Tank to hide and never made the jump???
There are indications that he was going into the bathroom for a long time.
It is not possible, really and truly. Next idea?
Next idea is astronomical. We have the following:
"The weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers." (Ckret)
What were the astronomical conditions that night.
Star charts Sky1-4 attached show that Cooper had a
gibeous Moon that night at 78.6% illumination.
The Moon had risen at 15:41H local time and would
set at 04:03. Its highest elevation that night was +42.9 degrees altitude above the local horizon at Portland (S-SSW). So if Cooper had any breaks in the clouds that night he had moonlight to operate with.
Prominent in the SSE at 8:13pm pst was Jupiter, brightest non lunar object that night, about midway up in the in the sky off the SSEastern horizon. Also
toward south above the horizon were Aquarius with
Pegasus the flying horse (The Great Square) above
Aquarius. (See charts attached).
In the East we have the Pleiades just risen with Orion soon to rise below the Seven Sisters.
Note* all sky images set for Portland 11-24-71 20:13pm pst.
Georger
377
Quote
Next idea is astronomical. We have the following:
"The weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers." (Ckret)
Note: I have said this all along and it was stated by many in the days that the weather as he neared Porland was clearing and what the FBI and media has used for the weather conditions was what people want to hear and to continue the myth.
All the misinformation has done is to stalemate the investigations into who Cooper really was.
By the way Ckret didn't post that to the forum - so you must work with him. Hopefully you are NOT working with some of those who are out there to MAKE money with a suspect (victim). After 13 yrs I hardly fall into that category - and I have had OFFERS - good offers.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
Quote...what the FBI and media has used for the weather conditions was what people want to hear and to continue the myth.
All the misinformation has done is to stalemate the investigations into who Cooper really was.
Jo, i don't think you answered 377 when he asked you a similar question, but please explain to us WHY the FBI and media want to continue the myth and stalemate the investigation?
By the way,why don't you take up some of those good offers? Then you could afford a PI to look into all those things you keep demanding the FBI do but must know, as we do, that there is no apparent rational reason for them to waste time, money and manpower on.
edited to add: by the way, Ckret DID indeed post publicly the quote that Georger used, it's here: (took a 2-second search to find)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3102353;search_string=Ceiling%20of%205%2C000%20feet;#3102353
so maybe you can scratch that one off your list of conspiracy theories - yet another one easily debunked here.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
CKRET:
Above is parts of some posts I made a few days ago - strange what putting the truth in front of some individuals does. I have had some contacts regarding some of those posts and a letter. Wouldn't you love to know what is happening, Ckret?
Note has been taken regarding the fingerprints that I have discussed many times.
I did not quote complete posts above. I hit a nerve with some of the recent information I posted. It was not new - just my wording it a little differently maybe.
Due to this forum information was made available to me and contacts made that I could never have made on my own.
Contacting the FBI is like leaving a message on a recorder if it involves Cooper - deleted or ignored. This was a statement made to me by one of my contacts over the yrs.
The FBI wants Cooper to end and the only way they can do that is to put him in the brink - hence all of the recent hoop-a-la regarding the money. It is not over - it is just beginning.
Fingerprints, altered composites used by individuals for publicity, information ignored and our own government deleting files or making them available when no one is alive to care.
This is not the AMERICA that we fought battles for, men/women died for and that our children can no longer pledge allegiance to --- under GOD. GOD is not a religion, GOD is a creator and a power to which most look up too. We do not have to be religious to believe there is a GOD - even if you believe we are an accident of nature.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
QuoteNo - I do not believe the FBI is involved but I do believe they have been "directed" in the past and records altered by the CIA.
There was "speculation" that the hijack involved MLK in the very beginning ------Was there really some truth to the rumor?
The FAA and Unions and CIA had critical situations going on during all of this time --- .
Take the Marana, Tx operations - there are those who have died and their obituaries specifically state they were trained there for covert actions in Cuba among other places. This was during the very time that I question Duane's past - the John Collins days and his being in places he could not be in if he was in prison...1962 and then the following yrs....
QuoteCKRET - would you have wanted Duane selling you an insurance policy? ------calling you on behalf of your employer.....the FBI, CIA etc.
One of these companies was mentioned in an article that stated it was a front for coverts...who supposedly sold insurance to FBI, CIA and other government agencies. Felons selling insurance to the FBI, CIA and other government agencies - there is SOMETHING wrong with this.
Does anyone remember my search for the source of one of Duane's employments his ex-wife told me about? That company is mentioned in the articles about Marana, TX and in the JMwave entities. Duane is in and out of the Tuson, Casa Grande and Phonix area during those yrs...along with MN among the many others on the list. His connections with New Orleans are established....
----- his wifes address is listed as New Orleans and her name is different. Didn't Ray deliver a package to a woman in New Orleans? Don't answer that because I know his testimony states that he did.
Again I will mention the name Knutsen (how ever it was spelled).
The FBI could easily trace all the employment for Duane L. Weber and John C. Collins from 1962 until 1969 - I can't because I am not the widow of John C. Collins and he was unable to include those benefits in his SS.
Above is parts of some posts I made a few days ago - strange what putting the truth in front of some individuals does. I have had some contacts regarding some of those posts and a letter. Wouldn't you love to know what is happening, Ckret?
Note has been taken regarding the fingerprints that I have discussed many times.
I did not quote complete posts above. I hit a nerve with some of the recent information I posted. It was not new - just my wording it a little differently maybe.
Due to this forum information was made available to me and contacts made that I could never have made on my own.
Contacting the FBI is like leaving a message on a recorder if it involves Cooper - deleted or ignored. This was a statement made to me by one of my contacts over the yrs.
The FBI wants Cooper to end and the only way they can do that is to put him in the brink - hence all of the recent hoop-a-la regarding the money. It is not over - it is just beginning.
Fingerprints, altered composites used by individuals for publicity, information ignored and our own government deleting files or making them available when no one is alive to care.
This is not the AMERICA that we fought battles for, men/women died for and that our children can no longer pledge allegiance to --- under GOD. GOD is not a religion, GOD is a creator and a power to which most look up too. We do not have to be religious to believe there is a GOD - even if you believe we are an accident of nature.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange you stated:
Quote
By the way,why don't you take up some of those good offers? Then you could afford a PI to look into all those things you keep demanding the FBI do but must know, as we do, that there is no apparent rational reason for them to waste time, money and manpower on.
========================
Between what I have done and the participation of this forum
You see I knew what I was looking for, but didn't know how to find it - I have all, but put it in the hands of the FBI. It was right in front of me and others all of this time.
What you have to do is step back and then look at a piece of information with a different respective...and thru other sources.
I have been doing this recently and with contacts I made in the last few days - that bail of hay has become only a handful. The needle is in my hand.
I need specific records from 1944 thru 1950 on a specific individual.
I have been doing this with phone calls to families of deceased and to living individuals...so far they all state that is not my father or that is not my uncle and that is not me. A picture of a man and a name.
Without the FBI's help I will have to go public one more time if the FBI does not step-up to the plate.
CKRET - you basically told me to put him in a chute or on the plane. I believe I have done the next best thing - the ability and knowledge to have carried out the jump...all I have to do now is verify what I have.
If the FBI goes thru all of the suspects from the beginning there were several that did not check out. Why didn't this one suspect check out? The man was using someone elses name...so no one knew who he really was...all the FBI had was a name and a place - the man whose name was given had an alibi and he had NO knowledge that his name was being used by someone else at a given time in the past.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
I have made the occasional references to LSD before, hoping you'd put the pieces together. It seems you haven't so here are some more clues.
1964 Project MKULTRA becomes MKSEARCH
1966 CIA front organization formed: Amazon Natural Drug Company. Note this was headed by J.C. King, who as you know was head of the CIA's Western Hemisphere Division during Bay of Pigs. Escorted "out" after that.
1968 Project OFTEN
Gottlieb suddenly ended MKSEARCH in 1972, immediately after the Cooper event. Nixon purges Helms from head of CIA. Schlesinger is named replacement. Helms and Gottelieb destroy all MKULTRA documents. Error left seven boxes of boxes though.
Marana is in AZ.
(edit) Also note that William Egan Colby had paratrooper training. He was responsible for the Phoenix program in Vietnam. Nixon made him Director of CIA in 1973. Note his death was "accidental" in 1996. He was canoeing at night by himself. He had no life jacket. Body found 20 yards from shore. Canoe 100 yards from shore.
FBI killed Colby
Question: security is paramount in any conspiracy, as well as staying out of jail. Kernell forgot to check what laws cover accessing a governor's email acount. That account was clearly not used to circumvent other laws. Yahoo provides important cost savings for Alaska. It's tricky business when everyone's illegal...luck of the draw who gets the short stick...Why is this applicable to a Cooper thread, you ask?
my question: what laws apply to accessing Ckret's or skyjack71's account here? Ethics doesn't apply, since we're talking major conspiracies...Although I suppose in most any conspiracy, the players have their own code of ethics.
Is there such a code in the Cooper conspiracy? Or is it open season/free-fire-zone? What are the rules that constrain behavior? (assume there are no technical constraints).
(edit) One of the last pieces of the puzzle is resolved once one is aware that Biological Radio Communication was being looked at to replace drugs like LSD.
A document from the Foreign Technology Division of Wright Paterson AFB, 1963 is at http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0400553 that mentions this. (first page attached)
It is no coincidence that georger has mentioned past USAF activity with high altitude balloons and parachuting. This work also took place at Wright Paterson AFB. Not coincidentally.
1964 Project MKULTRA becomes MKSEARCH
1966 CIA front organization formed: Amazon Natural Drug Company. Note this was headed by J.C. King, who as you know was head of the CIA's Western Hemisphere Division during Bay of Pigs. Escorted "out" after that.
1968 Project OFTEN
Gottlieb suddenly ended MKSEARCH in 1972, immediately after the Cooper event. Nixon purges Helms from head of CIA. Schlesinger is named replacement. Helms and Gottelieb destroy all MKULTRA documents. Error left seven boxes of boxes though.
Marana is in AZ.
(edit) Also note that William Egan Colby had paratrooper training. He was responsible for the Phoenix program in Vietnam. Nixon made him Director of CIA in 1973. Note his death was "accidental" in 1996. He was canoeing at night by himself. He had no life jacket. Body found 20 yards from shore. Canoe 100 yards from shore.
FBI killed Colby
Question: security is paramount in any conspiracy, as well as staying out of jail. Kernell forgot to check what laws cover accessing a governor's email acount. That account was clearly not used to circumvent other laws. Yahoo provides important cost savings for Alaska. It's tricky business when everyone's illegal...luck of the draw who gets the short stick...Why is this applicable to a Cooper thread, you ask?
my question: what laws apply to accessing Ckret's or skyjack71's account here? Ethics doesn't apply, since we're talking major conspiracies...Although I suppose in most any conspiracy, the players have their own code of ethics.
Is there such a code in the Cooper conspiracy? Or is it open season/free-fire-zone? What are the rules that constrain behavior? (assume there are no technical constraints).
(edit) One of the last pieces of the puzzle is resolved once one is aware that Biological Radio Communication was being looked at to replace drugs like LSD.
A document from the Foreign Technology Division of Wright Paterson AFB, 1963 is at http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0400553 that mentions this. (first page attached)
It is no coincidence that georger has mentioned past USAF activity with high altitude balloons and parachuting. This work also took place at Wright Paterson AFB. Not coincidentally.
377 22
It's always open season, because there are always some who consider themselves exempt from "the rules". whatever they are.
I wrote the technical chapter of a law book entitled "Raising and Litigating Electronic Surveillance Claims in Criminal Cases" published in 77. In researching the subject, I hung out with "phone freaks" telco frame men and others who were on the hardware side of things.
I learned that many warrantless wiretaps were done unofficially, off the record, etc. The evidence was never introduced in court, but was extremely useful in connecting the dots leading to arrests and intelligence harvests.
Some law enforcement officers followed the rules, some laughed at them and instead became good friends with frame men and even "phone phreaks' who were geek phone tech experts specializing in evading charges on long distance calls.
I had one mind blowing demo of a dialup wiretap capability that could let you listen to ANY call made to or from ANY number in a local exchange using nothing more than a touchtone phone and a black box multifrequency tone generator with some sequencing timers.
I was assured by telco and law enforcement that this rumored surveillance system was "urban myth" and for a while I believed that it was. My skepticism was laughed at by the phreakers. Finally, I had a phone phreak demo the system to me. He proved its existence and flexibility beyond any doubt. He was able to listen in on any local number he wished.
Someone set this system up, but who? Who knew how to use it? It was truly open season for some, while others scrupulously followed the rules and wrote detailed affidavits seeking the issuance of wiretap warrants by a judge. Others (for whom it is ALWAYS open season), probably just dialed up their taps.
377
I wrote the technical chapter of a law book entitled "Raising and Litigating Electronic Surveillance Claims in Criminal Cases" published in 77. In researching the subject, I hung out with "phone freaks" telco frame men and others who were on the hardware side of things.
I learned that many warrantless wiretaps were done unofficially, off the record, etc. The evidence was never introduced in court, but was extremely useful in connecting the dots leading to arrests and intelligence harvests.
Some law enforcement officers followed the rules, some laughed at them and instead became good friends with frame men and even "phone phreaks' who were geek phone tech experts specializing in evading charges on long distance calls.
I had one mind blowing demo of a dialup wiretap capability that could let you listen to ANY call made to or from ANY number in a local exchange using nothing more than a touchtone phone and a black box multifrequency tone generator with some sequencing timers.
I was assured by telco and law enforcement that this rumored surveillance system was "urban myth" and for a while I believed that it was. My skepticism was laughed at by the phreakers. Finally, I had a phone phreak demo the system to me. He proved its existence and flexibility beyond any doubt. He was able to listen in on any local number he wished.
Someone set this system up, but who? Who knew how to use it? It was truly open season for some, while others scrupulously followed the rules and wrote detailed affidavits seeking the issuance of wiretap warrants by a judge. Others (for whom it is ALWAYS open season), probably just dialed up their taps.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
hey thanks for the history, 377.
You always amaze me. You've had a taste of many strange things in your life. And kept your head together thru it all!.
[edit]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
The question is, who sistered the joists underneath Room 641A?
You always amaze me. You've had a taste of many strange things in your life. And kept your head together thru it all!.
[edit]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
The question is, who sistered the joists underneath Room 641A?
377 22
Thanks Snowmman, we all bring unique skills and experience to this forum. You, Sluggo and Georger are on the laboring oar a lot more than I am. I just wish I had your research skills! School wouldn't have been nearly so tough.
377
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
I do not understand most of what that post is about. I knew I made a mistake about Marana - I typed Tx instead of AZ, but I knew it was AZ if you read the statements about Phonix and Casa Grande.
Back in the days of WW11 and the the Korean War - A young man who had been in a lot of trouble with the law - uses another man's name. The guy jumps out of a plane in 1971 - someone he knew under the name Joe Blow gets on the phone and tells the FBI that this man is the Joe Blow he worked with 26 yrs before. The FBI checks out this Joe Blow, but he has a solid alibi with family and friends and not anywhere near WA.
Joe Blow doesn't have a clue why the FBI are question him.
Doesn't sound like much of a problem does it? Now go back and re-read what I just told you. There is a BIG problem with this.
Back in the days of WW11 and the the Korean War - A young man who had been in a lot of trouble with the law - uses another man's name. The guy jumps out of a plane in 1971 - someone he knew under the name Joe Blow gets on the phone and tells the FBI that this man is the Joe Blow he worked with 26 yrs before. The FBI checks out this Joe Blow, but he has a solid alibi with family and friends and not anywhere near WA.
Joe Blow doesn't have a clue why the FBI are question him.
Doesn't sound like much of a problem does it? Now go back and re-read what I just told you. There is a BIG problem with this.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Quote
1964 Project MKULTRA
Mucklow=MKULTRA
TENA=Tina
It is all there, we just need to find the frequency Kenneth.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuote
1964 Project MKULTRA
Mucklow=MKULTRA
TENA=Tina
It is all there, we just need to find the frequency Kenneth.
Stephen King knew that Rather knew:
"I've got a sneaky admiration for Dan Rather because I'm never sure when he's going to go bonkers on you. He always looks like he's gonna just stop and say, 'All right, motherfuckers, here it comes. We've got the bodies in hangar 18, the government has been lying to you....' And then they're going to drag him off."
--Steven King, quoted in the 1990 book, Anchors: Brokaw, Jennings, Rather and the Evening News by Robert Goldberg and Gerald Goldberg.
Quote
It is all there, we just need to find the frequency Kenneth.
I realize that you guys are just having fun, but then I am dead serious.
I am not talking espionage or big secrets - I am talking about a honest mistake made in the search for Cooper.
In the 1940's there was a small group of men with-in an organization for varied reasons. Some conscientious objectors, others or idividuals not able to apply themselves to the military regulations. Others were there because the alternatives were few for 1st time offenders. It was war time - and man power was needed.
This group of men came from all walks of life - when the group was dissolved - each went his own way.
Some kept in touch with others, but one just vanished.
Approx 25 yrs later Cooper jumped out of a Boeing 727 in 1971. One of the men who had been in this group - thought it might be the guy he worked with. The FBI was contacted with the name known to the group. When the FBI spoke with the possible suspect - he was no where near WA and ruled out as a suspect.
The FBI never told the suspect who called the claim in, nor did they inform him under what circumstance he was being checked out. They didn't ask him if he live in XX at such and such time, or worked for XX at that time.
Had they done so - they would have gotten a very blank look from this simple man - Where? Who? He just thought some of his old cronies had called it in as a joke.
As far as the FBI was concerned it was simple. What the FBI nor the "suspect" knew was that another young man had been living under his name - and it was this young man who was the real suspect.
The imposter used the other guys name for as long as it was convenient and went on with his life of crime and deception. He may have fathered a child under that name.
This may be why I have never found Zona (because she had a different last name - her mothers or his alias). If this is true then the woman eventually knew his real name as he refers to this wife in correspondence to home from a prison in the 50's. The prison file included an alias Carr told me was just a mis-spelling - but it was a distinct AKA. By the way (Carr never provided me with any copies of anything)other than what he has put in the forum.
I have been chasing the imposter in that photo for sometime - he does not exist under that name - Dead or Alive! It is a RARE name and finding deceased and living indivuals was expensive, but not difficult. I have spoke with brothers, children, nieces and nephews of most all of the families - with that same or similar name.
Now is is time for the FBI to step up to the PLATE and find what I missed. They have the power to obtain SS records of individuals where as the general public cannot do so unless they are a survivor.
It is such a rare name - it will not be difficult. If the FBI can't do this - then SHAME on THEM.
I have been accused of asking the FBI for a lot - yet, what NO ONE seems to know is that my questions to the FBI are fielded thru this forum. I copy an occasional post and send it to Carr to be sure he gets it.
If there is anyone out there who can help me in this particular vein of my search I would appreciate it.
Now I am looking for a specific name and to find anyone who may actually have known this guy.
Max if you are up there I need your help.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
Jo,
Put the name out there. We have many resourceful people posting and lurking on this forum. Who knows what will turn up? The FBI isn't the only game in town.
I still see no reason the FBI would want the case to remain unsolved in 2008. Makes zero sense to me. If you have a convincing explanation as to why the FBI would want the case to remain open almost 4 decades after the crime, then spell it out.
Jo, you seem more up lately. Hoping that reflects an upturn in your overall health.
377
Put the name out there. We have many resourceful people posting and lurking on this forum. Who knows what will turn up? The FBI isn't the only game in town.
I still see no reason the FBI would want the case to remain unsolved in 2008. Makes zero sense to me. If you have a convincing explanation as to why the FBI would want the case to remain open almost 4 decades after the crime, then spell it out.
Jo, you seem more up lately. Hoping that reflects an upturn in your overall health.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
The devil made me do it.
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