DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo,
Put the name out there. We have many resourceful people posting and lurking on this forum. Who knows what will turn up? The FBI isn't the only game in town.

I still see no reason the FBI would want the case to remain unsolved in 2008. Makes zero sense to me. If you have a convincing explanation as to why the FBI would want the case to remain open almost 4 decades after the crime, then spell it out.
377

I will hold on to this for a few days, to see if the FBI is going to do a simple SS search - also a government payroll search might do it - I am not sure how payrolls, etc worked in the 40's.

First they have to verify the employment by SS records or whatever records they might have.

Next they have to make sure the man in the picture is the man who was working at this place, They can do this several different ways.

1. Was there dual employment for a period of time on the SS.
I do not even know when SS started.

2. Check government records for this name.

3. Find relatives who might have pictures of this man other than the ones I have. As per my investigation into this part - the man in the picture is not their uncle, father or grandfather.

4. As for the FBI's involvement - I am not the one to ask about that.
I have spent 13 yrs of my life looking for this with a phone and a computer - having my sanity bashed at almost every turn.

They have a chance to redeem themselves, but I will bet a dollar they sit on their hands before they check this out...beyond a SS look-up.

.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Jo, you say you don't need a PI, but you keep on nagging the FBI to follow X, Y and Z alley. The FBI is not going to do it for reasons that are very clear to most of us. So, get a PI.

You also claim that you have shown enough evidence that Duane had enough knowledge to plan and execute this jump. I must have missed this. Could you please, succintly, summarize this evidence?

I believe you do have piles of evidence to show that Duane was a crook, that he met some interesting people in prison and out of it, and maybe was even in some interesting places at interesting times. However, I have still seen practically zero that links any of this back to DB Cooper. We have a desk clerk in a hotel who thinks Duane was in Portland the night before (said desk clerk now in China and despite the global communications ability seemingly can't make a public statement or statement to FBI on this) - and that's it, unless I am mistaken?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

We have a desk clerk in a hotel who thinks Duane was in Portland the night before (said desk clerk now in China ....

:::::

probably deported to Tibet where he spent time
as a desk clear for the Prince in Katmandu, but was
fired and became porter at Camp 3 on Everest...
You could ask climbers if they remember him.
LTOWKIMANUC I think was his name.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

You also claim that you have shown enough evidence that Duane had enough knowledge to plan and execute this jump. I must have missed this. Could you please, succintly, summarize this evidence?

This is recent and NO I have not posted this because I want to see if the FBI will do anything to prove or disprove it. I have set a dead line before I take this information public - by public I mean any media that can help me get the answeres regarding the suspect who was not a suspect.

He is in the country and it takes a 2 hour bus ride to get to officials and they will not notarize Englilsh statements - He told me the other word they use for it - which is the same as our notary. The chinese are a different culture - you do it their way or not at all. If the foriegner who came to our country would be as respect
======================

Quote

I have still seen practically zero that links any of this back to DB Cooper. We have a desk clerk in a hotel who thinks Duane was in Portland the night before (said desk clerk now in China and despite the global communications ability seemingly can't make a public statement or statement to FBI on this) - and that's it, unless I am mistaken?

Excuse me - there was a short statement made in the forum and we have his statement. When he was in the states last yr. he made himself available to the FBI, but they didn't bother with him. He then went back to China to finish his teaching contract there.

We do have a rough draft but it is not notarized as the Chinese will not do this. When he comes back to the states we will have a notorized document. The FBI didn't care to make arrangement to meet with him while he was in the states to get an official statement. He needed the FBI to come to him in Portland. He had a lot to do in his short time in the states - a trip to Seattle was not on that list. The FBI could have interviewed him in Portland.

He has spoke with me by way of phone recently about the delays and part of it is my address which I will mail to him.

So please do NOT bash me about that one more time. I can post the email statement we have as it stands, but have chose not to do so, until it can be notarized.

OKAY smarty pants: if you give me a private email address and your real name - I will provide you with what we have, plus the pictures and the names we have dillingently workes.for the last few wks. I make at least one call a day in reference to this and with 2 follow-up emails to get the pictures to them. So far the pictueres are not the subject we contact and the deceased subjects - the familys hav said - Not that is no Marvin, or Melvin

I have had 13 yrs to learn to be patient - give it 3 wks and then you can complain...as for a PI - it would exhaust me just to try to show and tell him what i am looking for.....what you do not understand is IF I missed it or dismissed it my self - the FBI will have to be taken there with a rope around their neck and told to graze.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

• Quote

[377 22]

What is the big deal about notarization? It is an over rated bureaucratic procedure that has no bearing on the truth, only on the identity of the person whose signature is notarized, and even that can easily be faked.

If the clerk has something to say, then have him say it. All the oaths, notary stamps, apostiles (foreign equivalents) etc don't have any real bearing on the truth of the statements made.

I have seen loads of documents signed under penalty of perjury, adorned with stamps, seals, ribbons etc, that simply are not factual, either due to mistake or lies.

We don't need notarization. We need corroboration. What evidence corroborates the clerk's statement about Duane's presence at his hotel?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

Quote

What is the big deal about notarization? It is an over rated bureaucratic procedure that has no bearing on the truth, only on the identity of the person whose signature is notarized, and even that can easily be faked.

If the clerk has something to say, then have him say it. All the oaths, notary stamps, apostiles (foreign equivalents) etc don't have any real bearing on the truth of the statements made.

I have seen loads of documents signed under penalty of perjury, adorned with stamps, seals, ribbons etc, that simply are not factual, either due to mistake or lies.

We don't need notarization. We need corroboration. What evidence corroborates the clerk's statement about Duane's presence at his hotel?

377

:|.||:

ever notice Jo copywrites everything she says here!?
She must be writing a book, or even a sepher!?
In addition, Chinese aithorities may be reading this
forum.

[377 22]

Quote

ever notice Jo copywrites everything she says here!?
She must be writing a book, or even a sepher!?
In addition, Chinese aithorities may be reading this
forum.

A family member got an up close personal look at China's domestic surveillance in the US this summer. He was offered a summer research position in Beijing. His efforts to get a China visa ran into a brick wall. Finally, after weeks of stalls, a missed flight etc, he made a huge fuss at the Chinese consulate (who was holding his US passport and would not return it) he was shown a number of photos of a guy in the US at anti-China political demonstrations. A smirking official said "we know who you are." Turned out that the guy in the photo had the same name as the visa applicant, but was a different person. It finally got straightened out, but it shows China is active in US surveillance.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I have not posted this because I want to see if the FBI will do anything to prove or disprove it. I have set a dead line before I take this information public

So, "i know something but you don't and you'll have to wait before i take it public" - sounds a lot like the way Galen Cook operates
Talking of whom - has there been any update on the book release, does anyone know? Of course, Ckret thinks his suspect is wrong too. If Ckret thinks so, I accept that the conclusion has been drawn objectively and am more inclined to believe Cook has not got the right guy.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Of of JC's aliases was "Wayne L. Weber"

The character known as "Potsie" on Happy Days, was named Wayne Weber in the show.

Now, most people will say: that was after 1971.

What you don't know is that "Happy Days" started out as an pilot in 1971 called "New Family in Town" produced by Garry Marshall for ABC. So the timing is right relative to the Cooper event.

"Potsie" is an obvious reference to marijuana.

This helps confirm the LSD/Project MK-ULTRA connection Jo has been denying.

I would also note that LSD can have it's letters scrambled to form LDS. Richard McCoy was a devout Latter-day Saint.

There is precedent for the CIA encoding information in tv show names/aliases...i.e. Theodore Cleaver/Beaver.

[snowmman 3]

Trying to play the game of what random references Jo might have thrown together.

Found a list of smokejumpers trained by Forest Service/BLM from 1940-2001 online (book copy in Google books).

amazing the data is available..

acronyms for area: (I suppose training area)
MSO Missoula, Montana
MYC McCall, Idaho
FBX Fairbanks, Alaska
NIFC National Interagency Fire Center, Boise, Idaho
CJ Cave Junction, Oregon
RAC Redmond Air Center, Redmond, Oregon
RDD Redmond, Oregon

extracting ones that might "match" known Collins aliases: (note none do)

Webber, Robert W. MSO 1962
Webber, Spence A. MYC 1971
Weber, Darrell J. MYC 1953
Weber, Gerald R. MSO 1967
Weber, Jared FBX 2001
Weber, John A. NIFC 1993
Weber, William P. MSO 1944

Collins, Brady NIFC 1997
Collins, Phil RDD 1959
Collins, Robert C. MSO 1946
Collins, Rober J. RAC 1969
Collins, Stanley H. MYC 1967
Collins, Theo CJ 1978
Collins, William MSO 1946

(edit)
There are 5 Webb's also. Here's a Wayne.

Webb, Wayne R. MYC 1946

source
http://books.google.com/books?id=A6cEZ2Ay0P4C&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=wayne+l.+weber+smokejumper&source=web&ots=gpVEHUpTG5&sig=H__NVOMMhuhQmF-6gV2E8oc5ngs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA41,M1

pages 41-57 are available. 58-60 aren't. So the list
stops at "Webking" but that's okay for this purpose.

[skyjack71 0]

I will try to briefly answer all of the posts with this one.

Hotel Clerk:
If Notarization doesn't mean anything I will have him send a signed and written statement immediately. I have an email he sent with what would be included...but will wait for the signed copy.

He cannot produce any documentation as all of that was taken by the FBI. I have repeatedly asked the FBI for a copy of the Hotel Registration which will have the name John Collins on it. So far NO answer from the FBI other than what another agent (Ralph Hope) told me a few yrs ago. He stated they would have checked it out and then destroyed it....I questioned this statement over and over....destroy evidence in a high profile case???? I have addressed this in the forum and with the FBI.

Snowmman: He did not use any of those aliases - he used another persons identification? Like I said I am waiting for the FBI - if they choose to ignore me with this - I have no choice to go public.

Orange: I am not doing a Galen Cook I promise you. Just be patient and NO I AM NOT WRITING A BOOK AND I HAVE NO ONE ELSE DOING THAT FOR ME.

The copyright is to protect me from such individuals as you spoke of - who would use information I provided and parts of my story for profit...I have never taken a penney, but I have sure spent a lot of them in my search. I have stated before my goal is to prove Duane was Cooper and any profits to me outside of re-imbursement for expenses and legal fees, etc. will be use to assist and to establish a program for first time offenders of non-violent crimes who have a high IQ's and potential --- to be able to pursue a career in any field. Felons usually end up repeating because they cannot make a decent living with the jobs they are able to attain.

Excuse any error I make I will not have time to check the post.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I have stated before my goal is to prove Duane was Cooper and any profits to me outside of re-imbursement for expenses and legal fees, etc. will be use to assist and to establish a program for first time offenders of non-violent crimes who have a high IQ's and potential --- to be able to pursue a career in any field. Felons usually end up repeating because they cannot make a decent living with the jobs they are able to attain.

Can I ask - out of simple curiosity - if you are not writing a book or having one written, where would these profits come from? Movie rights?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Quote

He cannot produce any documentation as all of that was taken by the FBI. I have repeatedly asked the FBI for a copy of the Hotel Registration which will have the name John Collins on it. So far NO answer from the FBI other than what another agent (Ralph Hope) told me a few yrs ago. He stated they would have checked it out and then destroyed it....I questioned this statement over and over....destroy evidence in a high profile case???? I have addressed this in the forum and with the FBI.

Hmmm, if there was truly a register showing an alias that Wayne provably used, and a clerk can ID Wayne as the Collins who signed, that would raise some provocative questions. Has the FBI acknowledged that they once had the register and it had a John Collins signature on the date you claim? Evidence belonging to third parties is normally returned not destroyed. Hotel registers ae normally books. Was the FBI given the whole book? A page? A copy of a page?

Ckret, what is the story on this hotel register from the Bureau's perspective? Did they take it and not return it? Did it have a John Collins entry on a date that was close to the hijack date?

Maybe they checked it out and the sig belonged to a real John Collins?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Trying to play the game of what random references Jo might have thrown together.

Webber, Robert W. MSO 1962
Weber, Darrell J. MYC 1953
Weber, Gerald R. MSO 1967
Weber, William P. MSO 1944

There are 5 Webb's also. Here's a Wayne.

Webb, Wayne R. MYC 1946

======================

Snowmmannnn: Nice try, but off base - that list is one I had yrs ago and most have been chased down by your's truely and I do not mean the FBI.

Wayne Webb died not to long ago and I understand he was a very well loved and outstanding individuals.

I hope to have more information by the first wk of October - if not then I will let you guys have it and see if you can make this cannon roll - I hope it doesn't roll into water! Cannon balls are awfully heavy.

If it sinks it will not be the first time I found something that did not float, but I feel very positive about this - because it is something I had in my hands yrs ago and dismissed or put aside.

I have also found a safe deposit box receipt under the name John Collins in 1990 (fell out of some records I kept), but can't find the bank - closed - gone. Let me know if any of you know how to chase that.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

After I made the post this afternoon I called Agent Carr and gave him the information. I did not want to make the name or names known in a public forum.

Surprise! Agent Carr was actually very nice to me and didn't try to cut me down or dismiss me. I gave him the names and variations of the name. My question to him "Was there a list kept of all suspects called into the FBI." He assured me there was.

I went on to tell him that the name would have checked out and the man had an alibi . What the FBI didn't know was that someone else was using this man's identification in a different part of the country.

I do not know how comprehensive our SS system was in the 40's - or even if the FBI checked SS records or if they asked for a photo of this suspect. If the "information" in question is confirmed not to be the "suspect" or that person, then the FBI needs to find out who that person was.

At this moment I believe that Duane L. Weber was using this man's name and possibly his SS at that time and plus any credentials the actual "suspect" had stolen or lost.

Like I have said this could sink like a cannon ball in water, but this is the most positive position I have ever taken and one that will put Duane in a chute or with the knowledge to have carried out the Cooper caper.

I don't mind eating crow or being made a fool out of - I have done a lot of that in my life. I just want the truth. The truth sometimes hurts and sometimes the truth is hiding in plain site.

Duane always told me if you want to hide something put it in plain site. This didn't make a lot of sense to me at that time...it didn't mean you needed to leave your money on the mantel, but you could hide something - there, such as in the hollow handles of the fireplace set. If they were askew you would know someone had been there.

The President is speaking - by-by.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[low_pull1 2]

joan, are you cooper?

[snowmman 3]

Jo, you've mentioned the Colorado incarceration. I've always assumed JC was incarcerated as John Collins. Do you know if it's possible he could have been jailed under an alias..i.e. Duane Lorin Weber (32755) ? Do you have anything that says what name he was jailed under.

I've just noticed that the fingerprint card (attached) ckret provided has the name Duane Lorin Weber. I'm surprised that an alias would be used?

I guess I'm surprised, but the system wasn't setup to resolve identities 100% back then? It's interesting.

[subject: recognize the line from a movie?]

(edit) Aug 15, 1971 Nixon preempts Bonanza to announce 90 day wage and price controls. ends up lasting 1000 days thru phases 1,2,3,4.

Was Cooper a fan of Bonanza, and that was his grudge?

Oct 25, 1971 The Uniform Holiday Bill (Public Law 90-363 (82 Stat. 250)) was signed on June 28, 1968, and was intended to insure three-day weekends for Federal employees by celebrating four national holidays on Mondays: Washington's Birthday, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Columbus Day.
Many states/individuals disagreed with this idea.

The first Veterans Day under the new law was observed with much confusion on October 25, 1971....because of the negative reactions, on September 20th, 1975, President Gerald R. Ford signed Public Law 94-97 (89 Stat. 479), which returned the annual observance of Veterans Day to its original date of November 11, beginning in 1978.

Was Cooper's grudge about Veteran's day?

Nov. 15, 1971 Nixon announces Phase 2.
AFL-CIO headed by George Meany, has their convention in Miami Beach the prior week. Large labor unions take a big hit under Nixon's plans. Stock market wobbles to new low for '71 on Phase 2 news.

Nov. 24. 1971 Cooper hijack

37 years pass.

Aug 29, 2008 Sarah Palin is announced as Republican vice presidential candidate

Sept 24, 2008 George Bush speech to promote the Paulson bailout. The total estimated cost is rivaled only by the Nixon wage and price controls, back in 1971.

All just data, no opinions.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Duane Lorin Weber? Do you have anything that says what name he was jailed under.

I would have to pull the files I have, but I believe I posted all of that before. It was the Jefferson record that was in the name of Collins. Others are his legal name and variations of his name.

Quote

I've just noticed that the fingerprint card (attached) ckret provided has the name Duane Lorin Weber. I'm surprised that an alias would be used?

Snowmmmannn, have you been drinking? Duane Lorin Weber was his real name. The fingerprint card you just entered is different than the fingerprint card I have on file. I did not see any full prints of the left hand on the card or it didn't all download.

Quote

The first Veterans Day under the new law was observed with much confusion on October 25, 1971....because of the negative reactions, on September 20th, 1975, President Gerald R. Ford signed Public Law 94-97 (89 Stat. 479), which returned the annual observance of Veterans Day to its original date of November 11, beginning in 1978.

Interesting observation.

Quote

Nov. 15, 1971 Nixon announces Phase 2.
AFL-CIO headed by George Meany, has their convention in Miami Beach the prior week. Large labor unions take a big hit under Nixon's plans.

Now you got my attention!

Quote

Nov. 24. 1971 Cooper hijack

Sept 24, 2008 George Bush speech to promote the Paulson bailout. The total estimated cost is rivaled only by the Nixon wage and price controls, back in 1971.

NOW, you really have my attention. I can assure you I did not choose the timing of my contact with the FBI and the Presidents speech. Now one more interesting fact - Jo talked to the FBI today....Sept 24, 2008...and he was nice. 90 days till Nov. 24 and close to the time Cooper boarded that 727.

I could not have planned that better, but I assure you I was unaware of it until his very moment on Sept 24. 2008.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snowmmmannn, have you been drinking? Duane Lorin Weber was his real name.

wait a second. This thing isn't a drinking game?

Yes I can't keep track of the Duane story. I thought he was John Collins in the Missouri prison. (commutation). So there's at least one instance where he's jailed under an alias?

I guess I'm all confused.

Oh by the way..is there an ironclad link between John Collins and Duane Weber? The FBI confirms the aliases, but do you have something that has the same picture of a guy, but the two different names? I always wondered about that. Some of the ids you talk about have no photo?

(edit) attached the 2nd fingerprint card ckret posted way back, in case you didn't get that right either.
You gotta admit, it's a little weird that you claim to be a data gatherer, but here and there you seem to miss things?

(edit) Nixon actually spoke at the AFL-CIO convention, on Nov. 19, 1971, to promote Phase 2. There was some friction where some claim he was treated badly. They laughed when he said the wage/price controls were working. A quote from Meany in the papers on 11/22/71 "I think we still have a constitutional right to laugh"..."This is still a democracy. This is still not a monarchy". Meany was 77 years old at the time.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Aug 15, 1971 Nixon preempts Bonanza to announce 90 day wage and price controls. ends up lasting 1000 days thru phases 1,2,3,4.

Was Cooper a fan of Bonanza, and that was his grudge?

Oct 25, 1971 The Uniform Holiday Bill (Public Law 90-363 (82 Stat. 250)) was signed on June 28, 1968, and was intended to insure three-day weekends for Federal employees by celebrating four national holidays on Mondays: Washington's Birthday, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Columbus Day.
Many states/individuals disagreed with this idea.

The first Veterans Day under the new law was observed with much confusion on October 25, 1971....because of the negative reactions, on September 20th, 1975, President Gerald R. Ford signed Public Law 94-97 (89 Stat. 479), which returned the annual observance of Veterans Day to its original date of November 11, beginning in 1978.

Was Cooper's grudge about Veteran's day?

Nov. 15, 1971 Nixon announces Phase 2.
AFL-CIO headed by George Meany, has their convention in Miami Beach the prior week. Large labor unions take a big hit under Nixon's plans. Stock market wobbles to new low for '71 on Phase 2 news.

Nov. 24. 1971 Cooper hijack

37 years pass.

Aug 29, 2008 Sarah Palin is announced as Republican vice presidential candidate

Sept 24, 2008 George Bush speech to promote the Paulson bailout. The total estimated cost is rivaled only by the Nixon wage and price controls, back in 1971.

All just data, no opinions.

Snow, all your "was that his grudge"... takes as an a priori assumption that Cooper HAD a grudge. That is still theory and not proven - or not proven as motive for the hijacking anyway - I still fail to see how hijacking a private airline insured by a private insurer does anything about a grudge against the government.

Secondly, I am intrigued by your comment on the cost of the wage/price policy - can you tell me if that is in nominal or inflation adjusted dollars, as a % of GDP, or what? The policy was deeply flawed and though unions may have opposed it for "selfish" reasons they were right that it was wrong. Some of the effects of that policy are still used as examples of why such policies are a very bad idea. But I digress...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Hi Orange1

Quote

Snow, all your "was that his grudge"... takes as an a priori assumption that Cooper HAD a grudge. That is still theory and not proven

agreed. I'm just going off of the comment Cooper made, that Ckret posted on Jan 12, 2008 at 1:02 PM:

Ckret said:
I don't know how it got into the press that Cooper had something against the airlines. Tina asked him at one point why did he hijack the flight and Cooper replied, "I don't have a grudge against the airline, I just have a grudge."

Quote

Secondly, I am intrigued by your comment on the cost of the wage/price policy - can you tell me if that is in nominal or inflation adjusted dollars, as a % of GDP, or what?

Orange1: I have to research it more. I read one editorial that said that..don't really know if exactly true...will look some more...That stuff caught my eye when it was mentioned. (I had forgotten about it). I was intrigued by the 1971 date (since we're all about 1971 here! :) and looked for some more stuff (which I posted).

Yes economists now seem to agree it was flawed.

I had posted before suggestions about economic/employment issues maybe affecting Cooper..maybe political, maybe right/conservative even.

What's interesting to me, is that recent events make it a little easier to "feel like '71" in that regard. Makes me reflect on biases and how I think about possibilities. It's weird how many things "could" be interesting. Even something as weird as the Veteran's Day thing. Remember I'm thinking one possibility is that Cooper was slightly a nutcase.

(edit) no disrepect to vets. We mused about Cooper having military experience. Only reason I mentioned it.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I still fail to see how hijacking a private airline insured by a private insurer does anything about a grudge against the government.

Hi Orange1.

I know I post a lot, but don't you remember how I said it was a myth that Cooper was the first US domestic hijack where the hijacker asked for money? The first one was a year earlier and the guy's "grudge" was a tax case..i.e. a grudge against the government.

Can search back in my posts for "tax". It was Barkley. I posted a news article with the post.

snip here:
2) Another interesting case, which was apparently the first where the hijacker received money. was 1970, not a jumper.
He was a nut job.
Arthur G. Barkley, June 4, 1970
had a tax grudge ($471). Demanded $100 million.
Apparently the first where they actually gave a hijacker money? They gave him $100,750
Not a jumper (note before Cooper)

(edit) Barkley news article attached again

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange1: I have to research it more. I read one editorial that said that..don't really know if exactly true...will look some more...That stuff caught my eye when it was mentioned. (I had forgotten about it). I was intrigued by the 1971 date (since we're all about 1971 here! :) and looked for some more stuff (which I posted).

Yes economists now seem to agree it was flawed.

I had posted before suggestions about economic/employment issues maybe affecting Cooper..maybe political, maybe right/conservative even.

What's interesting to me, is that recent events make it a little easier to "feel like '71" in that regard. Makes me reflect on biases and how I think about possibilities. It's weird how many things "could" be interesting. Even something as weird as the Veteran's Day thing. Remember I'm thinking one possibility is that Cooper was slightly a nutcase.

Many economists at the time thought it was flawed too! But the parallels to now are exactly why it is a topic again in some circles. People think price controls are an answer, but they just create a whole new set of problems and most importantly result in misallocation of resources, black markets etc.

Just because one guy had a grudge doesn't mean others thought along the same lines. I don't dismiss the notion Cooper was a nutcase either; we just don't know.

By the way have you checked this out (I have posted an extract from this link before, can't remember if I posted the link itself):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

Snow, all your "was that his grudge"... takes as an a priori assumption that Cooper HAD a grudge.

::::: oh he had a grudge, not a-priori but prima-
facea by virtue of the action itself. A grudge against
himself if nothing else and that is enough. Some
people have deep self hate, have been raised to
self-blame and loath themselves for failing. That
is a very typical 1950's post WWII, post Depression
era archetype in white middle class households.
Wooops! Without meaning to Ive divulged something about Cooper. One poster on this forum
displays the same symptomology admirably.



That is still theory and not proven - or not proven as motive for the hijacking anyway - I still fail to see how hijacking a private airline insured by a private insurer does anything about a grudge against the government.

:::::
The object of the grudge does not have to be external, only internal. Very likely in Cooper's case
it was a whole string of failures and grudges, which
again is very typical for the era.

You tell me you hijacking an aeroplane and parachuting into hostile conditions exercises a grudge against any external object? "Hey mom.
Make me a cake or I'll shoot myself!", ?

It may work with addle brained mothers who are
part of the dependence cycle, but I assure you it doesnt work with a company, corporation, airline,
or government. Those are systems, not people.

So, in Cooper's this case it is not a exercise to get payback for a grudge, but an exorcism for himself!
(Unless he knew someone specific in the case and
his actions would affect some one or two
individuals and change their lives, specifically.)

More likely this was all internal. A fight with himself.
All of which makes it infinitely harder to find the
guy, because he's a loner to begin with!

What was it Tina said: He was "SAD". Tina pretty
much nailed Cooper.


Georger

copywroted@1666

[georger 247]

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Hi Orange1

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Snow, all your "was that his grudge"... takes as an a priori assumption that Cooper HAD a grudge. That is still theory and not proven

agreed. I'm just going off of the comment Cooper made, that Ckret posted on Jan 12, 2008 at 1:02 PM:

Ckret said:
I don't know how it got into the press that Cooper had something against the airlines. Tina asked him at one point why did he hijack the flight and Cooper replied, "I don't have a grudge against the airline, I just have a grudge."

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Secondly, I am intrigued by your comment on the cost of the wage/price policy - can you tell me if that is in nominal or inflation adjusted dollars, as a % of GDP, or what?

Orange1: I have to research it more. I read one editorial that said that..don't really know if exactly true...will look some more...That stuff caught my eye when it was mentioned. (I had forgotten about it). I was intrigued by the 1971 date (since we're all about 1971 here! :) and looked for some more stuff (which I posted).

Yes economists now seem to agree it was flawed.

I had posted before suggestions about economic/employment issues maybe affecting Cooper..maybe political, maybe right/conservative even.

What's interesting to me, is that recent events make it a little easier to "feel like '71" in that regard. Makes me reflect on biases and how I think about possibilities. It's weird how many things "could" be interesting. Even something as weird as the Veteran's Day thing. Remember I'm thinking one possibility is that Cooper was slightly a nutcase.

(edit) no disrepect to vets. We mused about Cooper having military experience. Only reason I mentioned it.

:::::

I think you have to invoke Sluggo's 'cultural goggles'
to even think about this, ie the psychology of the
period, which might be difficult for presnt-day people
to do. (Gen Xrs and all that).

In Cooper's case the crime is very specific and
targeted. I seriously doubt he would have tried
this with any other airline any place else. I know
Ckret will not agree. It comes down to C's psychology
which makes targeting an opportunity very important.
Of all the crimes on Earth at the time, hijacking an
airline was special .... or you were acertified nutcase.

Cooper's actions were very specific, in the maine.
(His randomness occurs within the general plan,
not in the plan itself.)

This is the kind of guy who might even bother to pull
the parachute.

That fits Duane Weber's psychology about like OJ's
glove fit at the trial!

Cooper COULD NOT HAVE BEEN Duane Weber.