DB Cooper

[georger 245]

smokin99

Whether you are holding out until some huge truth emerges, or until you get your hands on the fingerprints/dna, or until you write the book, or to keep the men in black away, or so you can be the one to find the holy grail - it is futile to think that you will really "solve" the case with circumstantial information.

Why would the FBI, at this late date, (barring any new evidence) consider any candidate as the one and close the case based on anything other than what they have used to exclude all of the other contenders? "Okay, on second thought, we don't really need to match up on any of the real evidence anymore - we just think you're cute. lol...oh wait....this sounds awfully familiar.

Regardless, since absolutely no one has been able to put their guy in Portland or Seattle, much less on the plane that night, (or prove that they were not somewhere else) AND everyone's candidate resembles the composite(s), we -- those of us who don't have a candidate and some that think he didn't make it anyway, and some that think he didn't but hope he did -- get to have fun and vet em all.
Parry and debunk and try to maintain the fact from the fiction.
Same rules apply for Jo, Blevins, Gray, Fly, Cook, sail, east/west, Brown, Marla, the Formans, grey/gray/cup/cop and anyone else who presents a candidate as the "one".

Do plants feel pain?

Was Cooper a plant?



Therefore: should caterpillars and cockroaches be searching for
Cooper and Cooper-evidence!? The better investigative tools?

[smokin99 0]

Slightly off-topic but ....

Maybe Cooper will be found through a random stroke of luck like.....
Mr. Aubrey Lee Price,
--the very bad banker who stole millions from his bank and bilked investors in some scheme,
-- who faked his death but made the massive mistake of confessing to his crimes for the suicide to be believed
-- (which it was - at least a judge declared him legally dead but the FBI says they never bought it),
-- changed his appearance,
-- has been hiding out in points unknown and Ocala, Fl where he was playing farmer to about 200 pot plants in a rented mobile home,

was arrested after 18 months on the lam upon being stopped in GA......... because the tint on his windows was too dark.

And why was he in Georgia you ask?....To renew the tag on his truck.

Wendy Cross, who invested with Price told reporters, "Justice prevails and the big foot of karma will come back and squash you."

How about the even bigger foot of stupidity?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Amazon 7]

Quote

My next book DB COOPER vs THE GRAY COP will be so complete
All new the 23 years it took the investigation not the story of DB Cooper
But the case it self more for the drop zoner more of the 70s to 1979 the real case all the meetings with the FBI MC COY and Kenneth the planting of the money
Should be done by Feb 20 th I can do it in 15 hours

Dear Lord,

Please allow for a very good editor who can decipher this gobledegook.

Amen

[skyjack71 0]

Amazon

Quote

My next book DB COOPER vs THE GRAY COP will be so complete
All new the 23 years it took the investigation not the story of DB Cooper
But the case it self more for the drop zoner more of the 70s to 1979 the real case all the meetings with the FBI MC COY and Kenneth the planting of the money
Should be done by Feb 20 th I can do it in 15 hours

Dear Lord,

Please allow for a very good editor who can decipher this gobledegook.

Amen

GOOD GRIEF!

What will be next?
What a start to the New Year 2014!

Jo AIN'T part of this - just a by-stander right now. Perhaps it will be revealed that Cooper was actually staged - you think?

In 1979 I was told a lot of things and only recently started to make sense out of it all. I have done this by looking back and then digesting all of the different subjects presented over the yrs in and out of this thread from 1971 to 2014.

There is a common thread, but you have to study each and every subject and some never presented publically. You have to study the Whys and Hows. Find more than ONE commonality with all of the subjects and maybe then this case can be solved.

Start by listing the subjects and then the VALID reasons why that person could be Cooper.

1. Height
2. Age
3. Complexion

Those are the 3 easy things and the rest is more complicated.

4. Knowledge of jumping
a. training
b. extent of training
c. was a packer
d. just casual connection
e. covert actions
f. ex-military (not necessary)

5. Communications and/or
knowledge of area or both.
6. Prior relationships in area
7. Prior knowledge of area.
8. Connections between suspects
9. Unusual activity after Skyjack
a. Spent lots of money
b. Became non-existent
c. Change of life style
d. Confession or talk
e. Relationships
f. Background w/ Washington
10. Criminal background
11. Why WA and why N.W. Airlines
12. All of the above mean ZERO

Conclusion
This was a government sanctioned action thru the CIA & covered up.
Anything leading to any suspect was & has been destroyed...if Cooper was a lone Skyjacker he
probably died. But, where is his body & where is the evidence?
NOT one piece of evidence in 42 yrs.

Many of the known suspects have links in their history unknown to this thread. Why did the government go to such extent to
erase these histories? Why are some of those histories suddenly being connected?

No one expected computers to collect lots of unrelated data on to one site and in the archived files of Cooper Researchers. No one expected the un-expected..

Will this result in a conclusion as to who Cooper really was? This covers a large range of suspects, but when one starts to connect suspects the likely hood of a covert or secret operations starts to surface. HOW deeply did the government bury the secret?

NOT DEEP ENOUGH! NO one ever predicted the day would come when so many Coopers researcher would converge into one place with the technology we now have.

No one suspected so many books and articles would be written about mulitple suspects and some just regarding the subject itself. NO one ever thought D.B.Cooper would become a ICON and not just a Dirty Rotten Criminal.

Did the Government or a lone skyjacker or small group think no one would ever find a clue that finally made the connections?

Did Cooper ACTUALLY pull the ONLY unsolved SKYJACKING or was it an effort to regulate the AIR ways & make flying safer & less expensive? If it was it Backfired!
Will they EVER admit it was a Planned Action? Hell, NO!

I doubt there is even one living person who actually knows who or why Cooper existed. You can bet the Government nor the Airlines will ever disclose the truth. They will never admit our government has spent yrs of tax papers money to solve a crime - that was never an unsolved crime in the first place.

But was it as above or one lone jumper who did not survive and if so - why was NO evidence ever discovered and why was there so many errors in the collection of data that was readily available in 1971?

You'll Never Know If You Don't Know NOW!

I just couldn't resist that little tease and Duane Weber's favorite song. He used to sing that song at a sing-along in Orchards & his favorite song to sing at The Corner Tavern was San Franciso...you could do well on that one with a guitar player. Not so easy with You'll Never Know.

Damn! I just could NOT help myself with that one!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I have never allowed myself to read the books on the various subject written in the last few yrs. I have NOT read the book about KC or BD, but I am reading the Foreman's book at this time. I have reason to do so now.

Recollections from my early notes and phone calls in the first yrs before I went public in 2000 gave me a reason to do so and because of the list I posted above. I decided it was time to explore other unlikely subjects and why they are subjects at all.

I have not attempted to write a book and have relied on the collection of information regarding Weber's past and hoping to find proof DW was really who he said he was. I did NOT want to color my story with false information or suggestions that might create a sub-conscience memory of something that was hearsay or regarding other subjects.

I did explore earlier subjects (Brown and Coffelt) because there was few resources for discovery purposes when I started my efforts in 1996. After finding the DZ - so many suspects and information surfaced and I was still standing still - so I decided WHY NOT! Needless to say research on KC was not needed as that one has been hashed over and over in the thread.

The thread suggested suspects, but we usually ended up in another dead end. SO why NOT expose myself to other subjects who supposedly had Cooper connections? Maybe I should have read the book when it came out in 2008.

I suggest to those of you who have NOT read the book to do so. It is a collection of research and memories of Barb Dayton written by his friends.

I have not read the book in its entirety and had diss the Idea, but when I opened the book and view a few of the pictures and scanning areas - something GOT my attention.
Things - I have discussed regarding the past of Weber....seemed to intermingle with this story.

Since I never explored the subject Barb Dayton - I did NOT know the locations in his past and did NOT know he was heavily connected to Puyallup. I would learn this in a phone conversation and then was eager to read the book. It arrived today.

I was finding his history a little boring and started to flip around and then I found a couple of things that stood out and said "Gottcha" I am now trying to read it from beginning to end. Things I told Mr. H and things I had NOT read anywhere in 1976 - started to echo back at me. At first I thought she had heard my story and borrowed this or that - but, that did NOT seem to be the case when other things started to become evident - things I had discussed only with Himmelsbach and Pasternac and others involved in my search in the very beginning.

That was when I started to read line for line and page for page and using a highlighter. The print is hard for me to see so I am going to buy a page magnifier tomorrow - hope the drugstore has one.

What did I read that got my attention?
Backgrounds and places lived in and stories I had heard - but with far less wording - so it was from verbal conversations, but Cooper was not part of those conversations. I will leave the rest to your imagination and my own until I have finished the book. The history was a little confusing and wordy - get past that and have the personal interest I have and you start to hang on certain tidbits...especially if you know the history of Duane and his family.

Now I know why I have been ACCUSED of having read the book. What this means - I don't know. Maybe a group of guys got together and agreed they would all claim they were Dan Cooper.
Why is there unseemingly connections to the backgrounds of this man and others who have claimed to have been Cooper?

Tell you when I finish the book!

Read it with an open mind and your eyes wide open. Research the history of Weber in FL, GA, MS, AZ, CO, CA, WA, ID, NV, TX, AL, VA, GA, MS, & OH.
I hope I didn't forget a location. These guys traveled the same road and you can connect the dots...was it just the times of the era? I do not know yet. Many of the locations do NOT have specific dates - so right now it is just a worth-wild-read.

NOW, PLEASE Blevins do NOT NOW claim your subject has connections that parallel the subject of the book.
YOU have already declared KC's background. All I know about Duane's is what he told me and what the family told me and the prison/arrest records. It has taken me 17yrs to try to understand his past and to unravel it, but with there being NO ancestrial tree of old friends of the family in OHIO and CA - this has been a road with a lot of boulders in it.

Speaking of BOULDERS - I have to find that grave Yard of Boulders at the top of a very steep winding road.
I know where it is - BUT why did JT deny its existence? He totally ignored my description and avidly claimed I was crazy and it did NOT exist! WHY? NOW I know!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Once Bernie and Margie Geestman are no longer around, it will be impossible to prove the truth on KC. I mean...even if you can prove Kenny went through thousands of dollars the year after the hijacking, that doesn't mean he was Cooper. It just means he went through thousands of dollars. At this late date the only thing that will do is a confession by the principles, and that is extremely doubtful.

PRECISELY WHY YOU DO NOT REVEAL THEIR ADDRESSES AND PHONE NUMBER - YOU BANK ON THEIR NOT COMING FORWARD! YOU OWN IMMORTALITY & YOUR BOOK DEPENDS ON THEM DIEING BEFORE ANYONE TALKS TO THEM.

YOU ARE A COWARD!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 245]

RobertMBlevins

***Whether you are holding out until some huge truth emerges, or until you get your hands on the fingerprints/dna, or until you write the book, or to keep the men in black away, or so you can be the one to find the holy grail - it is futile to think that you will really "solve" the case with circumstantial information.

Why would the FBI, at this late date, (barring any new evidence) consider any candidate as the one and close the case based on anything other than what they have used to exclude all of the other contenders? "Okay, on second thought, we don't really need to match up on any of the real evidence anymore - we just think you're cute. lol...oh wait....this sounds awfully familiar.

Regardless, since absolutely no one has been able to put their guy in Portland or Seattle, much less on the plane that night, (or prove that they were not somewhere else) AND everyone's candidate resembles the composite(s), we -- those of us who don't have a candidate and some that think he didn't make it anyway, and some that think he didn't but hope he did -- get to have fun and vet em all.
Parry and debunk and try to maintain the fact from the fiction.
Same rules apply for Jo, Blevins, Gray, Fly, Cook, sail, east/west, Brown, Marla, the Formans, grey/gray/cup/cop and anyone else who presents a candidate as the "one".

The Real Deal on Kenny Christiansen:

1) There is a certain amount of circumstantial evidence against him, and that's why Geoff Gray brought him to light in 2007.


Prove that!

An email substantiating your claim, from your long time friend
and close working partner, Geoff Gray, will be sufficient.

What was this circumstantial evidence that you claim 'caused' Gray to bring Kenny to light ???

Are you speaking for Gray now! ? Or making more shit up?

The issue is TRUST!

[MarkBennett 5]

smokin99

Same rules apply for Jo, Blevins, Gray, Fly, Cook, sail, east/west, Brown, Marla, the Formans, grey/gray/cup/cop and anyone else who presents a candidate as the "one".

Ok, Smokin, I'm stumped...Who is "east/west"?

[georger 245]

RobertMBlevins

LOL I drop by late and see a bunch of the usual hostility.

Initial circumstantial evidence on KC? Georger you must be kidding. Like you haven't seen it or something.
Don't EVEN speak to me about 'talking for Gray'. You're the one who claimed he called me 'mentally unstable' and 'unreliable,' which he denied saying, of course. And you kept insisting he did, even if the face of evidence to the contrary. No wonder he stopped taking your phone calls. No surprise there. You are funny indeed. Maybe you should quote Gray again about me, and I'll just email him the post like the OTHER times...

As far as locating the witnesses and speaking to them, this is the LAST TIME I am going to comment on this. It is not my job to reveal peoples' personal contact information publicly. When you state their real names and the cities where they live, that is good enough. Which means anybody with a debit card and half a brain can find them easily.

Freely passing out peoples' phone numbers, addresses, and emails in a public forum is idiotic. This is 2014 folks. You can find anybody who is a normal citizen if you have their true name and the city where they live. Do your own damn homework. Otherwise, stop whining.

I only gave out someone's info once at Dropzone, the guy was in the phone book anyway, but I still almost got banned. There are also possible legal repercussions, which I've discussed previously.

Read Carefuwwy - this might conthern you!

The issue you have raised is Geoff Gray's motivation for writing
his article. You claim Gray had what you term circumstantial
evidence against Kenny which caused Gray to bring
Kenny forward as a suspect.

I am not sure that was Gray's motivation for writing his article
on Kenny at all!

Are you with me so far?

Those are your claims.

Either you are correct about Gray's motives or you aren't!

And, if you can't be trusted to correctly interpret someone
else's work, how can you be trusted to do anything?

The issue very clearly is TRUST! Trust in your accuracy and
your claims regarding other people's work. If you can't be
trusted in that simple task, can you be trusted on any level -
with anything?

If you are going to speak for Geoffrey Gray and his motivations,
isn't it time you were correct in what you are attributing to
Geoff Gray? Its a very simple proposition!

Maybe all Gray was interested in was an interesting article
but had no intention of advancing Kenny as a suspect, or
thought he (Gray) had evidence implicating Kenny?

Whereas, you now run off at the mouth speaking for Gray,
attributing motives and facts to Gray which Gray may not have
had at all, and still does not have!

The issue, very clearly is TRUST in Robert M Blevins and this thing he and Gayla call Adventure Books of Seattle, and subsidiary of "B and G Houscleaning of Seattle"

http://bghousecleaning.webs.com/

How do you like the title page of my new book?
'kooperland' by Sherlock Boo Boo\

You may figure heavily in MY book kOOPERLANDT uber alles!

[georger 245]

RobertMBlevins

Whatever...

How about a game of Truth or Dare.

Truth or Dare: The Citizen Sleuths decided not to include you in their group because you revealed information at Dropzone they wanted to keep secret until they were ready to release it?

I noticed you dodged around my comments about your phony Gray quotes regarding yours truly and the fact he stopped taking your calls.

Before you answer, consider THIS: Gray has email. And I will send him your post if I think it's warranted. I don't mind if people step up on their own to confront me on this or that. I just don't like it when someone quotes others falsely in a pathetic effort to discredit. THAT is a different animal entirely and goes to character and credibility.

more lies from you! You literally dont know what you are saying!

But here you are, clear as day.

Houscleaner who does Cooper Research?

http://bghousecleaning.webs.com/

That IS reality! And REALITY HOTEL TOO!

ps: when you email your friend and partner Geoffrey Gray,
be sure to ask him 3 questions:
_ was Kenny gay with boys he was grooming?
_ Did Geoff ever think Kenny was DB Cooper?
_ what is this 'circumstantial evidence' Blevins claims 'caused
Gray to write his article' ?

You keep talking for and in behalf of Geoff Gray. I think you
are lying, plain and simple. I dont think you know what you are
talking about - on any subject under God's heaven!

I think you are just 'some guy' with a short fuse and a blank
head.



Give my regards to Geoff.

[georger 245]

RobertMBlevins

******Whatever...

How about a game of Truth or Dare.

Truth or Dare: The Citizen Sleuths decided not to include you in their group because you revealed information at Dropzone they wanted to keep secret until they were ready to release it?

I noticed you dodged around my comments about your phony Gray quotes regarding yours truly and the fact he stopped taking your calls.

Before you answer, consider THIS: Gray has email. And I will send him your post if I think it's warranted. I don't mind if people step up on their own to confront me on this or that. I just don't like it when someone quotes others falsely in a pathetic effort to discredit. THAT is a different animal entirely and goes to character and credibility.

more lies from you! You literally dont know what you are saying!

But here you are, clear as day.

Houscleaner who does Cooper Research?

http://bghousecleaning.webs.com/

That IS reality! And REALITY HOTEL TOO!

It's a fun job. No weekends. Your assumption is that I'm stupid because I scrub floors?

Oh, okay...

Gray. Quotes. YOU. Answer.

Actually - I think you dont scrub too many floors - you spend
too much time here to be scrubbing anything elsewhere! You
are always here 24/7 even on holidays!

I think you are a lazy 4&^$*@ with a monumental personality
problem.

I can tell you plainly you wouldn't be scrubbing my floors
because I wouldn't trust you to be in my house! Since you
asked!

[Amazon 7]

I think I found the perfect form for you..... Please fill out

[georger 245]

RobertMBlevins

***I think I found the perfect form for you..... Please fill out

It's funny I will admit. (Picture file) And it is very late here. I'm giving up Wild Card Saturday to drive a really nice older lady around to Costco and Fred Meyer tomorrow afternoon. I do this for her since she has no one else, and we call it Driving Miss Daisy, with yours truly playing the part of Morgan Freeman. I don't mind, she could be my mother. She's also a cleaning customer who has a special spot in my heart.

Georger says not-nice things about us on our cleaning biz. I say THIS from our humble website:

Quote

'Our client list includes people from all walks of life. We serve executives from companies such as Microsoft, Boeing and Starbucks, as well as working families and professionals.

You can feel safe with B & G in your home. We are fully licensed, bonded, and insured, and have long-term customers you may contact as references...'

I get my best ideas while vacuuming.
You always fly off the handle and into the ozone when simple
questions are asked you dont want to face.

Either you speak for Geoff Gray - or you don't! Either you know
what you are talking about (have talked to Gray about his
article on Kenny) or you haven't and don't.

No need for personal attacks and smut and lies about me!

You claim Geoff had circumstantial evidence against Kenny
which caused Gray, to write his article on Christiansen.
Either your claim is true, or it's false. You are speaking for Geoff
Gray! Is your representation true, or false?

(Your representations about me have always been scoroulous
lies!)

You are claiming a causal connection for Gray. Gray you say,
had evidence which caused him, compelled him to write his
article about Kenny - otherwise I gather he would never have
written his article about Christiansen ... for no other reason.

There it is. Simple.

Either your claims about Gray are true or false.

That is the issue.

There is no other issue.

If you are going to speak for Gray maybe you should get his
permission - first?



[Because there are other reasons Gray has stated for why he
wrote his article on Kenny, reasons that have nothing to do with
circumstantial evidence as Blevins describes it, and ... in
no sense did socalled evidence cause or compel Gray to
write anything about Christiansen! Blevins citations may be
all untrue, and yet he persists in making them up and posting
them over and over and over ... it goes to accuracy and
integrity in describing other people's work.]

[georger 245]

Amazon

I think I found the perfect form for you..... Please fill out

Blevins brought Gray's article on KC up - I didn't.

Fill it out, yourself.

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

............... At this late date the only thing that will do is a confession by the principles, and that is extremely doubtful.

I'm thinking - not just KC - but confessions by anyone is just not going to do it. Especially confessions by friends, family members, or partners in crime who were not on the plane. And even more especially if other things simply do not match up.

On second thought, there might be one or two confessions that I can think of that would possibly turn the page - but that's not likely to happen and even those would also probably need to be buttressed by tangible evidence - since both have their own hurdle(s) that must be jumped over.

By report, the FBI's had had many confessions. At this late date, seems like it's got to be fingerprints, dna, a body, a chute, a bag, a twenty - aka something they can hold, examine, and draw a conclusion from.
Nothing said by anyone.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

MarkBennett

***
Same rules apply for Jo, Blevins, Gray, Fly, Cook, sail, east/west, Brown, Marla, the Formans, grey/gray/cup/cop and anyone else who presents a candidate as the "one".

Ok, Smokin, I'm stumped...Who is "east/west"?

Not sure if they were on here... I would have to check back...but on other forums...there used to be two posters named East Coast and West Coast.

Don't remember who east coast was or if he was one of the two mentioned in the segment below - but west coast, I'm pretty sure, was Dan Dvorak (spelling might be off) or Matthew Myers. One died? and not sure if the other is still in the DB game. Their theory was that Ted Mayfield did it.
(Disclaimer - The above gives a general idea, but I would have to check back on all of the specifics - it's been a while)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw6bXxqaq0s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZQhUUjIXEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpMaQ3WVj4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dat-UPEB15M

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

skyjack71

GOOD GRIEF!

What will be next?
What a start to the New Year 2014!

Jo AIN'T part of this - just a by-stander right now. Perhaps it will be revealed that Cooper was actually staged - you think?

In 1979 I was told a lot of things and only recently started to make sense out of it all. I have done this by looking back and then digesting all of the different subjects presented over the yrs in and out of this thread from 1971 to 2014.

There is a common thread, but you have to study each and every subject and some never presented publically. You have to study the Whys and Hows. Find more than ONE commonality with all of the subjects and maybe then this case can be solved.

Start by listing the subjects and then the VALID reasons why that person could be Cooper.

1. Height
2. Age
3. Complexion

Those are the 3 easy things and the rest is more complicated.

4. Knowledge of jumping
a. training
b. extent of training
c. was a packer
d. just casual connection
e. covert actions
f. ex-military (not necessary)

5. Communications and/or
knowledge of area or both.
6. Prior relationships in area
7. Prior knowledge of area.
8. Connections between suspects
9. Unusual activity after Skyjack
a. Spent lots of money
b. Became non-existent
c. Change of life style
d. Confession or talk
e. Relationships
f. Background w/ Washington
10. Criminal background
11. Why WA and why N.W. Airlines
12. All of the above mean ZERO

Conclusion
This was a government sanctioned action thru the CIA & covered up.
Anything leading to any suspect was & has been destroyed...if Cooper was a lone Skyjacker he
probably died. But, where is his body & where is the evidence?
NOT one piece of evidence in 42 yrs.

Many of the known suspects have links in their history unknown to this thread. Why did the government go to such extent to
erase these histories? Why are some of those histories suddenly being connected?

No one expected computers to collect lots of unrelated data on to one site and in the archived files of Cooper Researchers. No one expected the un-expected..

Will this result in a conclusion as to who Cooper really was? This covers a large range of suspects, but when one starts to connect suspects the likely hood of a covert or secret operations starts to surface. HOW deeply did the government bury the secret?

NOT DEEP ENOUGH! NO one ever predicted the day would come when so many Coopers researcher would converge into one place with the technology we now have.

No one suspected so many books and articles would be written about mulitple suspects and some just regarding the subject itself. NO one ever thought D.B.Cooper would become a ICON and not just a Dirty Rotten Criminal.

Did the Government or a lone skyjacker or small group think no one would ever find a clue that finally made the connections?

Did Cooper ACTUALLY pull the ONLY unsolved SKYJACKING or was it an effort to regulate the AIR ways & make flying safer & less expensive? If it was it Backfired!
Will they EVER admit it was a Planned Action? Hell, NO!

I doubt there is even one living person who actually knows who or why Cooper existed. You can bet the Government nor the Airlines will ever disclose the truth. They will never admit our government has spent yrs of tax papers money to solve a crime - that was never an unsolved crime in the first place.

But was it as above or one lone jumper who did not survive and if so - why was NO evidence ever discovered and why was there so many errors in the collection of data that was readily available in 1971?

You'll Never Know If You Don't Know NOW!

I just couldn't resist that little tease and Duane Weber's favorite song. He used to sing that song at a sing-along in Orchards & his favorite song to sing at The Corner Tavern was San Franciso...you could do well on that one with a guitar player. Not so easy with You'll Never Know.

Damn! I just could NOT help myself with that one!

Jo...if you had been writing posts as succinct (relatively speaking) and rational sounding as the one above all these years, you would never have received so much grief ...and you might have solved your own little Duane Weber mystery by now.

I'm not sure if I can subscribe to the conspiracy theory (though it is highly possible that such things could happen, I just have a problem with believing people can keep secrets that long - though that is also a generalization that I could probably disprove if so inclined)

But your post is something to think about and the points you made above are valid -- especially the ones that I went back and bolded.....

I enjoyed your post, Jo

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Hominid 0]

Years ago in Cooperland the FBI (one Larry Carr) gave the public (via respected researcher "Sluggo") one or two JPEG graphic images of the Washington state part of a flightpath plot. The files are still available at Sluggo's site. If you look closely at the image you can see little pale red crosses which are the markings of the plotted positions. The person(s) who plotted the points used a "thin" red-lead mechanical pencil. If you're not seeing the pale red crosses, and you're looking at an image with red and blue "balls" and a big green line, you are NOT looking at the FBI flightpath scan.

The image(s) also show that someone had sloppily annotated times for some of the plotted points, using long arrows to connect the times to the points. These appear to have been done with simple pencil before the pieces of the original paper charts were stuck together.

For unknown reason a well meaning person made one or more copies of the FBI flightpath file(s) and used them to creat new graphics, also in JPEG format. Big red and blue stickpin symbols (appearing superficially like "balls") were placed on top of the position plot crosses of the original FBI graphics, and a broad green line was added from "ball" to "ball." The "balls" (and maybe the green line to some extent) totally obscure almost all the original red crosses.

And misleading annotations were made regarding the plotted points, indicating that some were plotted and others were only "estimated." This was a faulty attempt to indicate that the TIMES marked for some of the points were the times that were on the original plot and that the other times were determined by extrapolating point-by-point from the ones that were on the original. The plotted positions were actually all equally accurate and equally "estimated."

You would kind of expect that the "balls" would be accurately centered on the original crosses, or that the "pin" ends of the stickpin lines would be. But the stickpin ends weren't so placed. And a few of the original crosses were not covered by "balls." So, at least in some cases, the "balls" were not accurately centered on the crosses. And it is impossible to tell the accuracy just by looking at the graphic since the "new" position plots totally obscure the original ones.

Add to this the fact that JPEG files have a nasty characteristic of accumulating "smear" or blurring with every time the file is saved after revision.

So, if you want to try to analyze anything about details of the flightpath, you would be foolish to use the red-ball blue-ball graphic instead of the original data from the FBI. In fact, a basic of evidence analysis is to analyze the original evidence rather than some derived product someone has done who-knows-what with.

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

******
Same rules apply for Jo, Blevins, Gray, Fly, Cook, sail, east/west, Brown, Marla, the Formans, grey/gray/cup/cop and anyone else who presents a candidate as the "one".

Ok, Smokin, I'm stumped...Who is "east/west"?

Not sure if they were on here... I would have to check back...but on other forums...there used to be two posters named East Coast and West Coast.

Don't remember who east coast was or if he was one of the two mentioned in the segment below - but west coast, I'm pretty sure, was Dan Dvorak (spelling might be off) or Matthew Myers. One died? and not sure if the other is still in the DB game. Their theory was that Ted Mayfield did it.
(Disclaimer - The above gives a general idea, but I would have to check back on all of the specifics - it's been a while)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw6bXxqaq0s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZQhUUjIXEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpMaQ3WVj4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dat-UPEB15M


the ID is correct. the story kind of fizzled out after one of them died. they were on Mayfield big time.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 50]

Hominid

Years ago in Cooperland the FBI (one Larry Carr) gave the public (via respected researcher "Sluggo") one or two JPEG graphic images of the Washington state part of a flightpath plot. The files are still available at Sluggo's site. If you look closely at the image you can see little pale red crosses which are the markings of the plotted positions. The person(s) who plotted the points used a "thin" red-lead mechanical pencil. If you're not seeing the pale red crosses, and you're looking at an image with red and blue "balls" and a big green line, you are NOT looking at the FBI flightpath scan.

The image(s) also show that someone had sloppily annotated times for some of the plotted points, using long arrows to connect the times to the points. These appear to have been done with simple pencil before the pieces of the original paper charts were stuck together.

For unknown reason a well meaning person made one or more copies of the FBI flightpath file(s) and used them to creat new graphics, also in JPEG format. Big red and blue stickpin symbols (appearing superficially like "balls") were placed on top of the position plot crosses of the original FBI graphics, and a broad green line was added from "ball" to "ball." The "balls" (and maybe the green line to some extent) totally obscure almost all the original red crosses.

And misleading annotations were made regarding the plotted points, indicating that some were plotted and others were only "estimated." This was a faulty attempt to indicate that the TIMES marked for some of the points were the times that were on the original plot and that the other times were determined by extrapolating point-by-point from the ones that were on the original. The plotted positions were actually all equally accurate and equally "estimated."

You would kind of expect that the "balls" would be accurately centered on the original crosses, or that the "pin" ends of the stickpin lines would be. But the stickpin ends weren't so placed. And a few of the original crosses were not covered by "balls." So, at least in some cases, the "balls" were not accurately centered on the crosses. And it is impossible to tell the accuracy just by looking at the graphic since the "new" position plots totally obscure the original ones.

Add to this the fact that JPEG files have a nasty characteristic of accumulating "smear" or blurring with every time the file is saved after revision.

So, if you want to try to analyze anything about details of the flightpath, you would be foolish to use the red-ball blue-ball graphic instead of the original data from the FBI. In fact, a basic of evidence analysis is to analyze the original evidence rather than some derived product someone has done who-knows-what with.

Excellent! Perhaps more of the "original evidence" will become available when the correct, but presently unknown, stars have aligned. Keep the faith and stay tuned!

Robert99

[smokin99 0]

Robert99

***Years ago in Cooperland the FBI (one Larry Carr) gave the public (via respected researcher "Sluggo") one or two JPEG graphic images of the Washington state part of a flightpath plot. The files are still available at Sluggo's site. If you look closely at the image you can see little pale red crosses which are the markings of the plotted positions. The person(s) who plotted the points used a "thin" red-lead mechanical pencil. If you're not seeing the pale red crosses, and you're looking at an image with red and blue "balls" and a big green line, you are NOT looking at the FBI flightpath scan.

The image(s) also show that someone had sloppily annotated times for some of the plotted points, using long arrows to connect the times to the points. These appear to have been done with simple pencil before the pieces of the original paper charts were stuck together.

For unknown reason a well meaning person made one or more copies of the FBI flightpath file(s) and used them to creat new graphics, also in JPEG format. Big red and blue stickpin symbols (appearing superficially like "balls") were placed on top of the position plot crosses of the original FBI graphics, and a broad green line was added from "ball" to "ball." The "balls" (and maybe the green line to some extent) totally obscure almost all the original red crosses.

And misleading annotations were made regarding the plotted points, indicating that some were plotted and others were only "estimated." This was a faulty attempt to indicate that the TIMES marked for some of the points were the times that were on the original plot and that the other times were determined by extrapolating point-by-point from the ones that were on the original. The plotted positions were actually all equally accurate and equally "estimated."

You would kind of expect that the "balls" would be accurately centered on the original crosses, or that the "pin" ends of the stickpin lines would be. But the stickpin ends weren't so placed. And a few of the original crosses were not covered by "balls." So, at least in some cases, the "balls" were not accurately centered on the crosses. And it is impossible to tell the accuracy just by looking at the graphic since the "new" position plots totally obscure the original ones.

Add to this the fact that JPEG files have a nasty characteristic of accumulating "smear" or blurring with every time the file is saved after revision.

So, if you want to try to analyze anything about details of the flightpath, you would be foolish to use the red-ball blue-ball graphic instead of the original data from the FBI. In fact, a basic of evidence analysis is to analyze the original evidence rather than some derived product someone has done who-knows-what with.

Excellent! Perhaps more of the "original evidence" will become available when the correct, but presently unknown, stars have aligned. Keep the faith and stay tuned!

Robert99

For what it's worth...you aero guys won't need it, but if you're like me - I love maps, but I had never looked at a flight map except in connection with this case - links on this google search page can be helpful in explaining the basic symbols and such of what you are looking at.... I used the first one, but you can take your pick :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=flight+map+legend&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Robert99 50]

smokin99

******Years ago in Cooperland the FBI (one Larry Carr) gave the public (via respected researcher "Sluggo") one or two JPEG graphic images of the Washington state part of a flightpath plot. The files are still available at Sluggo's site. If you look closely at the image you can see little pale red crosses which are the markings of the plotted positions. The person(s) who plotted the points used a "thin" red-lead mechanical pencil. If you're not seeing the pale red crosses, and you're looking at an image with red and blue "balls" and a big green line, you are NOT looking at the FBI flightpath scan.

The image(s) also show that someone had sloppily annotated times for some of the plotted points, using long arrows to connect the times to the points. These appear to have been done with simple pencil before the pieces of the original paper charts were stuck together.

For unknown reason a well meaning person made one or more copies of the FBI flightpath file(s) and used them to creat new graphics, also in JPEG format. Big red and blue stickpin symbols (appearing superficially like "balls") were placed on top of the position plot crosses of the original FBI graphics, and a broad green line was added from "ball" to "ball." The "balls" (and maybe the green line to some extent) totally obscure almost all the original red crosses.

And misleading annotations were made regarding the plotted points, indicating that some were plotted and others were only "estimated." This was a faulty attempt to indicate that the TIMES marked for some of the points were the times that were on the original plot and that the other times were determined by extrapolating point-by-point from the ones that were on the original. The plotted positions were actually all equally accurate and equally "estimated."

You would kind of expect that the "balls" would be accurately centered on the original crosses, or that the "pin" ends of the stickpin lines would be. But the stickpin ends weren't so placed. And a few of the original crosses were not covered by "balls." So, at least in some cases, the "balls" were not accurately centered on the crosses. And it is impossible to tell the accuracy just by looking at the graphic since the "new" position plots totally obscure the original ones.

Add to this the fact that JPEG files have a nasty characteristic of accumulating "smear" or blurring with every time the file is saved after revision.

So, if you want to try to analyze anything about details of the flightpath, you would be foolish to use the red-ball blue-ball graphic instead of the original data from the FBI. In fact, a basic of evidence analysis is to analyze the original evidence rather than some derived product someone has done who-knows-what with.

Excellent! Perhaps more of the "original evidence" will become available when the correct, but presently unknown, stars have aligned. Keep the faith and stay tuned!

Robert99

For what it's worth...you aero guys won't need it, but if you're like me - I love maps, but I had never looked at a flight map except in connection with this case - links on this google search page can be helpful in explaining the basic symbols and such of what you are looking at.... I used the first one, but you can take your pick :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=flight+map+legend&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

Smokin, the FAA has an excellent free publication, "Flight Navigator Handbook, FAA-H-8083-18", dated 2011, that might be of interest to you. You can visit the FAA web page or Google it to downloaded it.

Also, several excellent books on aircraft navigation can be ordered through Amazon.com.

Robert99

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

Smokin, the FAA has an excellent free publication, "Flight Navigator Handbook, FAA-H-8083-18", dated 2011, that might be of interest to you. You can visit the FAA web page or Google it to downloaded it.

Also, several excellent books on aircraft navigation can be ordered through Amazon.com.

Robert99

also http://skyvector.com/has all the charts online...the charts usually have the legend/key for the symbols.

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[georger 245]

smokin99

******
Same rules apply for Jo, Blevins, Gray, Fly, Cook, sail, east/west, Brown, Marla, the Formans, grey/gray/cup/cop and anyone else who presents a candidate as the "one".

Ok, Smokin, I'm stumped...Who is "east/west"?

Not sure if they were on here... I would have to check back...but on other forums...there used to be two posters named East Coast and West Coast.

Don't remember who east coast was or if he was one of the two mentioned in the segment below - but west coast, I'm pretty sure, was Dan Dvorak (spelling might be off) or Matthew Myers. One died? and not sure if the other is still in the DB game. Their theory was that Ted Mayfield did it.
(Disclaimer - The above gives a general idea, but I would have to check back on all of the specifics - it's been a while)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw6bXxqaq0s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZQhUUjIXEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpMaQ3WVj4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dat-UPEB15M

http://n467us.com/I%20Am%20D%20B%20Cooper.html

East Coast (Daniel Dvorak) and West Coast (Mathew Myers).

They discovered that one Ted Mayfield had called Himmelsbach
during the Cooper hijacking and turned this into a phantastical
case against Mayfield, still alive in WA. Their claims against Ted
Mayfield were almost as slanderous and libelous as Blevins'
claims and statements against Geestman etal! Mayfield was the
Mayor of his community at the time! They stirred up a lot of
trouble, claimed a working relationship with Himmelsbach
which was never true, went public on KOIN-TV naming Ted
Mayfield as DB Cooper, and Dvorak suddenly died in a traffic
accident (speeding) ending the pair's career abruptly.

Myers used to post here from time to time -

Snowmman had a running relationship online with the pair.

All of this occurred just prior to this thread being opened and
becoming 'popular'. Ckret was never involved in the Myers-
Dvorak debacle.

[smokin99 0]

georger

*********
Same rules apply for Jo, Blevins, Gray, Fly, Cook, sail, east/west, Brown, Marla, the Formans, grey/gray/cup/cop and anyone else who presents a candidate as the "one".

Ok, Smokin, I'm stumped...Who is "east/west"?

Not sure if they were on here... I would have to check back...but on other forums...there used to be two posters named East Coast and West Coast.

Don't remember who east coast was or if he was one of the two mentioned in the segment below - but west coast, I'm pretty sure, was Dan Dvorak (spelling might be off) or Matthew Myers. One died? and not sure if the other is still in the DB game. Their theory was that Ted Mayfield did it.
(Disclaimer - The above gives a general idea, but I would have to check back on all of the specifics - it's been a while)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw6bXxqaq0s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZQhUUjIXEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URpMaQ3WVj4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dat-UPEB15M

http://n467us.com/I%20Am%20D%20B%20Cooper.html

East Coast (Daniel Dvorak) and West Coast (Mathew Myers).

They discovered that one Ted Mayfield had called Himmelsbach
during the Cooper hijacking and turned this into a phantastical
case against Mayfield, still alive in WA. Their claims against Ted
Mayfield were almost as slanderous and libelous as Blevins'
claims and statements against Geestman etal! Mayfield was the
Mayor of his community at the time! They stirred up a lot of
trouble, claimed a working relationship with Himmelsbach
which was never true, went public on KOIN-TV naming Ted
Mayfield as DB Cooper, and Dvorak suddenly died in a traffic
accident (speeding) ending the pair's career abruptly.

Myers used to post here from time to time -

Snowmman had a running relationship online with the pair.

All of this occurred just prior to this thread being opened and
becoming 'popular'. Ckret was never involved in the Myers-
Dvorak debacle.

Which reminds me....I ran a search on Sheridan Peterson not too long ago to see if he's posted anything anywhere and I saw this.

[inline dropzoneghouls.jpg]

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill