DB Cooper

[georger 249]

Robert99

***

If you ever find the chute site and do some digging, look for the ends if the lines which should terminate in a riser attachment fitting of some sort. That item would tell us a lot about whether it was ever in an NB6 or NB8 container.

377

I was told several years ago by a parachute dealer in the Portland area that Cooper's parachute was an NB-6 with the shroud lines sewn to the risers. That is, there were no separable links between the top of the risers and the canopy.

The above is a very distinctive feature, or was in the early 1970s, and the NB-6 that I owned until just a few weeks before the hijacking had the shroud lines sewn to the risers.

Robert99

and that could be one of those 'details' the FBI refuses to talk
about. Something Cossey would know .... but Hayden might not
know?

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

nice pic. I have seen several like that. what is your thoughts on the markings of the Amboy chute. no visible manufacture, nothing but a number and date. would they stamp a cargo chute differently than a personal chute?

I have no experience with cargo chutes and any thoughts on the amboy chute is pure speculation...nothing more.

The amboy chute doesn't look silk to me...and I think a personnel chute would have more data stamped on it...like I said pure speculation.

Where is the original pic of the data panel on the amboy chute? I did find one in a collage that farflung posted a few years ago.

If what Norman Hayden says (“white, 26-foot conical, rip-stop.”)on The Mountain news web site is true and both parachutes were identical it would have more information on the data panel identifying it.

eta: I don't think the amboy chute has anything to do with db cooper and is a cargo chute...

Some logic and lots of speculation...


hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[377 22]

The NB designation means. I believe, Navy Backpack. It doesn't necessarily designate the canopy type. As I recall NB6s in Navy service had 26 ft conical ripstop canopies and NB8s had 28 ft C9 round ripstop canopies. But an NB 8 could have other types of canopies installed post military service and it's still an NB8. Some surplus NB6 containers had extension panels sewed into the closing flaps to obtain more interior volume and allow larger canopies to be installed.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***************

I have a silk chute...it's in storage at the moment, but here is photo of the data stamp.

hangdiver

Hangdiver, I think you have just proven that the "Feb 46" on the Amboy parachute is NOT a date stamp.

On the stamp for your chute (shown in your attachment), the date portion is listed as "Date of MFG: May 11, 1945".

I presume cargo parachutes also had date stamps and that they would be done in a similar manner as above. Thus, the "Feb 46", which is isolated from any other markings, is NOT a date stamp, whatever it may be.

In any event, the Amboy parachute is not relevant to the Cooper hijacking.

Robert99


I found several chutes with stamps on the (see photo) almost all of them are similar to the picture hangdiver produced except one. it's in the upper left corner (yellow) it's a reproduction of a WW2 silk cargo chute?

added...the correct photo is on there now

Shutter,

If the "Feb 46" was suppose to be a date of manufacture, then both your and Hangdiver's illustrations would read something like "Feburaryxx,1946".

That is both the day of the month, the complete four digit year, and probably the entire spelling for the month, would be stamped on the fabric.

Your illustration further suggests that the "Feb 46" is not a date but just a coincidence meaning something else.

Robert99


it seems to be less of a concern for data on a cargo chute opposed to a personal chute. obviously there seems to be a difference in markings.

I think the Amboy chute was Feb 12, 1946 not sure though, but it does resemble the cargo chute markings provided in the pic.

I have the pic include of the Amboy stamp...it was the 21st not the 12 th.

Good. Are we further agreed that since the Amboy stamp is similar to that on a known cargo parachute, and not similar to stamps on known personnel parachutes, that the Amboy parachute is probably a cargo parachute?

If so, then the great Amboy parachute mystery can be put to rest as not being related to the Cooper hijacking.

Robert99


I can't honestly confirm that it is indeed a cargo chute until I get some more evidence pointing in that direction. based on what has what has been produced, it certainly could go that way. I'm hoping to hear from some people who specialize in vintage chutes. I think it could easily come down to the way it was stamped.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BruceSmith 3]

377

***
I have a silk chute...it's in storage at the moment, but here is photo of the data stamp.



hangdiver

That's too cool Hangdiver.

It's obvious why the American Lady Corset Company never made skydiving canopies.

377


Whoa, Three-Seven-Seven. If I had an American Lady Corset parachute, I'd definitely start skydiving! Over Hollywood, too!! I'd even want to get a matching windbreaker and baseball cap!!!

[mrshutter45 21]

hangdiver

Quote

nice pic. I have seen several like that. what is your thoughts on the markings of the Amboy chute. no visible manufacture, nothing but a number and date. would they stamp a cargo chute differently than a personal chute?

I have no experience with cargo chutes and any thoughts on the amboy chute is pure speculation...nothing more.

The amboy chute doesn't look silk to me...and I think a personnel chute would have more data stamped on it...like I said pure speculation.

Where is the original pic of the data panel on the amboy chute? I did find one in a collage that farflung posted a few years ago.

If what Norman Hayden says (“white, 26-foot conical, rip-stop.”)on The Mountain news web site is true and both parachutes were identical it would have more information on the data panel identifying it.

eta: I don't think the amboy chute has anything to do with db cooper and is a cargo chute...

Some logic and lots of speculation...


hangdiver

I don't have the experience either. I think we have to keep in mind the chute is dirty, this could cover easily seen signs of the type of chute. I'm sure the chute looks much different than what we are seeing while standing in front of it?

377...I seen your reference to the N6 having a 26ft canopy. would a 34 ft canopy fit into that container safely? are we going to also dismiss Cossey reporting it at 34ft?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

BruceSmith

******
I have a silk chute...it's in storage at the moment, but here is photo of the data stamp.



hangdiver

That's too cool Hangdiver.

It's obvious why the American Lady Corset Company never made skydiving canopies.

377


Whoa, Three-Seven-Seven. If I had an American Lady Corset parachute, I'd definitely start skydiving! Over Hollywood, too!! I'd even want to get a matching windbreaker and baseball cap!!!


don't forget your loafers and briefcase

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[BruceSmith 3]

mrshutter45

*********
I have a silk chute...it's in storage at the moment, but here is photo of the data stamp.



hangdiver

That's too cool Hangdiver.

It's obvious why the American Lady Corset Company never made skydiving canopies.

377


Whoa, Three-Seven-Seven. If I had an American Lady Corset parachute, I'd definitely start skydiving! Over Hollywood, too!! I'd even want to get a matching windbreaker and baseball cap!!!


don't forget your loafers and briefcase

An American Lady Corset briefcase? I think it would detract from the ALC baseball cap. No?

[georger 249]

mrshutter45

*********
I have a silk chute...it's in storage at the moment, but here is photo of the data stamp.



hangdiver

That's too cool Hangdiver.

It's obvious why the American Lady Corset Company never made skydiving canopies.

377


Whoa, Three-Seven-Seven. If I had an American Lady Corset parachute, I'd definitely start skydiving! Over Hollywood, too!! I'd even want to get a matching windbreaker and baseball cap!!!


don't forget your loafers and briefcase

The photos presented so far make fabric id impossible. I have
to wonder if Tom and Gray saw photos of better quality in the
archive, and may have some answers but aren't talking?

Why all of the mysteries surrounding this 'cargo' chute? The
void just invites rampant speculation and trouble.

[mrshutter45 21]

georger

************
I have a silk chute...it's in storage at the moment, but here is photo of the data stamp.



hangdiver

That's too cool Hangdiver.

It's obvious why the American Lady Corset Company never made skydiving canopies.

377


Whoa, Three-Seven-Seven. If I had an American Lady Corset parachute, I'd definitely start skydiving! Over Hollywood, too!! I'd even want to get a matching windbreaker and baseball cap!!!


don't forget your loafers and briefcase

The photos presented so far make fabric id impossible. I have
to wonder if Tom and Gray saw photos of better quality in the
archive, and may have some answers but aren't talking?

Why all of the mysteries surrounding this 'cargo' chute? The
void just invites rampant speculation and trouble.


well, I guess Gray would be the only one to ask since Tom admitted he never asked about the chute during investigation. so I think it's safe to say he didn't see any photo's or that would of brought questions into play.
I agree on the speculation, I believe Blevins does too. I also think we are chasing absolutely zip.....but would
still like to confirm something.

I haven't cleaned this photo up, but I took it off the video from KOMO news. you can see where it is torn and frayed. followed by just a close up of the chute.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.

[inline para1.jpg] [inline para2.jpg]

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

***I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.




I posted this on the other page. it's a reproduction. I was only pointing out the markings on it being similar to the Amboy chute.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 249]

smokin99

***I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.



is there a url for where the amboy chute is discussed?

plugged in silk cargo into search and got nothing...

where on this website the Amboy chute discussed if at all ?

[mrshutter45 21]

georger

******I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.



is there a url for where the amboy chute is discussed?

plugged in silk cargo into search and got nothing...



once you type in silk chute, look to the last box at the top right hand side and clicky.....nothing about Amboy on the link.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 22]

Bruce wrote

Quote

377...I seen your reference to the N6 having a 26ft canopy. would a 34 ft canopy fit into that container safely? are we going to also dismiss Cossey reporting it at 34ft?

You'd have a very hard time cramming a 34 ft canopy into a stock NB6. Remember area and therefore weight goes up as the SQUARE of radius.

I'd say if you could cram it in and manage to close the flaps and insert the ripcord pins you'd have a dangerously hard pull required to deploy.

Never heard of anything bigger than a 28 ft C9 put into an NB6 and even that might have required extending the container flaps.

Riggers know more than I do. Dan Poynter is the old gear guru. I'd go with whatever he opines.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 249]

mrshutter45

*********I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.



is there a url for where the amboy chute is discussed?

plugged in silk cargo into search and got nothing...



once you type in silk chute, look to the last box at the top right hand side and clicky.....nothing about Amboy on the link.

there's that silk (non-ripstop nylon) pattern again clear as day -

appears to have a coarse wove ? vrs. other silk parachute patterns Ive seen.

Caption reads -

This is a very large 100% pure silk parachute dated 1945 from WW2. We procured a few of these from sources in both the United States and the United Kingdom in order to create the women's Chuter DGL blousson. Women were asked to forego wearing silk during the war so it could be used for parachutes. Dropping men and equipment into the field by air must have seemed an almost space-aged concept. It's a humbling thing to hear veterans like those interviewed for A Band of Brothers talk about their jumps into the unknown. The image below is a more recent one from the conflict in Afghanistan but the iconic yellow color of the chutes used for supply-drops is similar to our much older versions. And where modern parachutes are made from nylon, the world before nylon demanded they be made from silk. Envisioning the chain of activity from a living silkworm spinning the initial filaments to the moment when a full sized yello parachute canopy opens in the sky is almost more than the most imaginations could handle. Amazing.

[mrshutter45 21]

georger

************I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.



is there a url for where the amboy chute is discussed?

plugged in silk cargo into search and got nothing...



once you type in silk chute, look to the last box at the top right hand side and clicky.....nothing about Amboy on the link.

there's that silk (non-ripstop nylon) pattern again clear as day -

appears to have a coarse wove ? vrs. other silk parachute patterns Ive seen.

Caption reads -

This is a very large 100% pure silk parachute dated 1945 from WW2. We procured a few of these from sources in both the United States and the United Kingdom in order to create the women's Chuter DGL blousson. Women were asked to forego wearing silk during the war so it could be used for parachutes. Dropping men and equipment into the field by air must have seemed an almost space-aged concept. It's a humbling thing to hear veterans like those interviewed for A Band of Brothers talk about their jumps into the unknown. The image below is a more recent one from the conflict in Afghanistan but the iconic yellow color of the chutes used for supply-drops is similar to our much older versions. And where modern parachutes are made from nylon, the world before nylon demanded they be made from silk. Envisioning the chain of activity from a living silkworm spinning the initial filaments to the moment when a full sized yello parachute canopy opens in the sky is almost more than the most imaginations could handle. Amazing.


possibly not made the way they were in the 40's? I haven't seen that pattern either. here is a pic of a silk chute in good condition. don't know if you can zoom in enough...

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

******I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.




I posted this on the other page. it's a reproduction. I was only pointing out the markings on it being similar to the Amboy chute.

Not sure what you posted. I posted this a while ago as a close up sample of silk chute made in 1945 as compared to the close up pic of the Amboy chute.

Georger: I never meant to suggest that this site mentioned the Amboy chute. It was a comparison photo.

Where do you get that it is a reproduction? I don't see that.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

*********I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.




I posted this on the other page. it's a reproduction. I was only pointing out the markings on it being similar to the Amboy chute.

Not sure what you posted. I posted this a while ago as a close up sample of silk chute made in 1945 as compared to the close up pic of the Amboy chute.

Georger: I never meant to suggest that this site mentioned the Amboy chute. It was a comparison photo.

Where do you get that it is a reproduction? I don't see that.


looks like you are correct. I could swore I saw reproduction while finding it on Google image's? I stand corrected. looks NIB lol (new in box)

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 22]

Another reason to rule out the Amboy chute:

No pilot chute attached to the apex.

I'm not a rigger and don't know much about emergency bailout rigs but I believe the type that Cossey and Hayden supplied used spring loaded pilot chutes attached to the apex of the main canopy.

Correct?

See attached photos of an MA1 pilot chute. These were common in bailout rigs.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

************I never said the Amboy chute was Cooper's.

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink.

The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........
http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/751/ww2-silk-cargo-parachute.json

if you get the main page, just put silk cargo in the site's search engine.




I posted this on the other page. it's a reproduction. I was only pointing out the markings on it being similar to the Amboy chute.

Not sure what you posted. I posted this a while ago as a close up sample of silk chute made in 1945 as compared to the close up pic of the Amboy chute.

Georger: I never meant to suggest that this site mentioned the Amboy chute. It was a comparison photo.

Where do you get that it is a reproduction? I don't see that.


looks like you are correct. I could swore I saw reproduction while finding it on Google image's? I stand corrected. looks NIB lol (new in box)

lol...yeah it does..might have been from a silk hoarder's collection... they made jackets out of them

http://blog.denhamthejeanmaker.com/#/card/749/aw11-women-chuter-dgl.json

If this link takes you to the main page, put in women chuter in the search engine

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[airtwardo 7]

377

Bruce wrote

Quote

377...I seen your reference to the N6 having a 26ft canopy. would a 34 ft canopy fit into that container safely? are we going to also dismiss Cossey reporting it at 34ft?

You'd have a very hard time cramming a 34 ft canopy into a stock NB6. Remember area and therefore weight goes up as the SQUARE of radius.

I'd say if you could cram it in and manage to close the flaps and insert the ripcord pins you'd have a dangerously hard pull required to deploy.

Never heard of anything bigger than a 28 ft C9 put into an NB6 and even that might have required extending the container flaps.

Riggers know more than I do. Dan Poynter is the old gear guru. I'd go with whatever he opines.

377

Off hand I can't think of any 34' PEP's...could that be a mistaken reference to a 24' flat or such?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

377...I seen your reference to the N6 having a 26ft canopy. would a 34 ft canopy fit into that container safely? are we going to also dismiss Cossey reporting it at 34ft?

From seeing the silk cargo chute from 1945 with the same type markings as the Amboy Feb 21 1946, I'm circling back around to wondering whether we can completely dismiss Cossey's silk comment or the 34 feet comment or the cargo chute comment.

Maybe, just maybe, he liked to play around with the press, but his opinion was still sound.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[377 22]

I've never heard of a military 34 ft PEP either. Can't find one in Poynter's book.

T10 paratrooper canopy was 32 ft. Twill paratrooper reserves were 24 ft.

And if the Amboy chute was from a bailout rig where is the pilot chute?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

377

I've never heard of a military 34 ft PEP either. Can't find one in Poynter's book.

T10 paratrooper canopy was 32 ft. Twill paratrooper reserves were 24 ft.

And if the Amboy chute was from a bailout rig where is the pilot chute?

377

I'm looking for the post I had that had a guy selling a 34' cargo chute with no lines cut. the T-10 if not mistaken was produced in the 50's?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI