DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"...I explained my experience with him, but it is OKAY for him to continuely bash me and say things that are NOT true..."

What have I said that was not true, Mrs. Cooper?

[skyjack71 0]

BruceSmith

Sometimes, such as with Carol Abracadabra, the revisions can be quite extensive. Others, such as yourself, their requests to change what I wrote were denied. In your case I refused because what you asked of me, in my judgement, was a request to white-wash what you have long told me.

I didn't request a white-wash - I requested you WRITE the truth without your "OPINIONS" of me inserted which were MEAN and demeaning. I prefer YOU leave me out of the BOOK entirely and I have told you that.

If you are writing a real book about real people you leave out "YOUR opinions". YOUR opinions are slanted and that is obvious - any one reading this thread knows that. WHY don't you just leave me out of your BOOK entirely - I strongly suggest that at this point.

If the person BUTTERS you up then you give them a different treatment:
For instance the LIES you told in the thread - just a few postings back. You were talking about GALEN - well, I have told you I have ALL of his emails in black and white!

YOU don't like me because I CALL it the way it reads - and your obtuse remarks in this thread only prove my point.

WHEN you make remarks that are your opinion and can be proven otherwise - that is slander. Your remarks about TINA are very harmful - and the way you approached her - and you LUSTS after her. YOU are one SCARY guy and you have a TEMPER to boot!

YOUR Enquire attitude will be your down fall.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

BruceSmith

Quote

"...I explained my experience with him, but it is OKAY for him to continuely bash me and say things that are NOT true..."

What have I said that was not true, Mrs. Cooper?

Go BACK and read your posts.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

"...I didn't request a white-wash - I requested you WRITE the truth without your "OPINIONS" of me inserted which were MEAN and demeaning. I prefer YOU leave me out of the BOOK entirely and I have told you that...."

Ahem, Mrs. Cooper, but I asked you what I have written that is a lie. Your characterization of your comments to me as "not a white wash" is simply your opinion of what I wrote.

As far as I can tell, you are not able to state one thing that I've said that was a lie.

So, put up or shut up.

[skyjack71 0]

BruceSmith

Galen has also asked me to respect his position pitching his book and his investment in finding these two indivuduals. As a result, he has not given me the contact information for them, and I have been unable to find either one of them on my own.

It is NO wonder Galen does NOT want you contacting these individuals. He has already experience 1st hand what happens when you approach the witnesses.

Strange that GALEN has never attested to the things you claimed.
Remember I was in contact with Galen at that time. He sent me one of the pictures in the mail. YOU didn't know that did you? ONLY after the fact and you were very unhappy about that - infact you were STEAMING!

I am not the only one who has complained about your treatment of the witnesses and some of the things you write - yet, you single me out everytime. WONDER WHY?

If you write inaccurate and discusting things about individuals - just how do you think U should be conceived. I believe if you READ back - I am not the only one discusted with some of your treatments. The ones you are reprimanded in the thread about are the one we are aware of.

There are I am sure many more demeaning and inaccurate accountings that you will put in your book. POO on you when you do things like that.

Just about the time you start showing promise - you do something that is way over the line.
I am not going to spend my precious good times going back thru your posting to point them out. They have been pointed out to you by others - not just me.

I have NO idea how much you tangle the technical stuff because I don't get into that - it is over my head. Everytime I do - I regret it.
I know beans about chutes, jumping and flight paths... Everytime I get into that I am over my head - and it is obvious.

THere are things I try to explain that I know little about - such as things Duane told me about - but, it was before I knew squat about Cooper - so it means zero to anyone else. I didn't have a clue what some the things he said and did meant....they just were NOT important to me at the time.

MY memories mean nothing to anyone but me...but they are my memories and no one can ever take them away from me other than dementia or death.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

skyjack71

***

Galen has also asked me to respect his position pitching his book and his investment in finding these two indivuduals. As a result, he has not given me the contact information for them, and I have been unable to find either one of them on my own.

It is NO wonder Galen does NOT want you contacting these individuals. He has already experience 1st hand what happens when you approach the witnesses.

Strange that GALEN has never attested to the things you claimed.
Remember I was in contact with Galen at that time. He sent me one of the pictures in the mail. YOU didn't know that did you? ONLY after the fact and you were very unhappy about that - infact you were STEAMING!



I believe that you are zero for three, here, Mrs. Cooper. I've asked you three times for an instance of my lying. Yet, you haven't been able to produce a single item.

I'm done. Three strikes and you're out, too. G-bye Mrs. Cooper. Take a seat on the bench.

[skyjack71 0]

BruceSmith

******

Galen has also asked me to respect his position pitching his book and his investment in finding these two indivuduals. As a result, he has not given me the contact information for them, and I have been unable to find either one of them on my own.

It is NO wonder Galen does NOT want you contacting these individuals. He has already experience 1st hand what happens when you approach the witnesses.

Strange that GALEN has never attested to the things you claimed.
Remember I was in contact with Galen at that time. He sent me one of the pictures in the mail. YOU didn't know that did you? ONLY after the fact and you were very unhappy about that - infact you were STEAMING!



I believe that you are zero for three, here, Mrs. Cooper. I've asked you three times for an instance of my lying. Yet, you haven't been able to produce a single item.

I'm done. Three strikes and you're out, too. G-bye Mrs. Cooper. Take a seat on the bench.

WELL, you better read back to the beginning of your postings in this thread .....and account for all of the horrible things you have said about the subjects over the yrs.
Right now you are just another wannabe promoting a book.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo wrote

Quote

You guys have continuely ignored Weber's family connections to Boeing and the friends of the family who assisted with the Boeing 727 jumps before they were ever utilized.

You've presented no evidence to show ANY Weber connection to 727 jumps. The best you've disclosed is a relative who sold paint to Boeing and one who may have had some schematics or other diagrams from Boeing.

Yes, we've ignored the Weber Boeing connections and will continue to do until your evidence matches your claims.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

I noticed you continue to use the word "lying" a lot. I just looked at your website again and noticed several known lies on it. you have known for a long time that Kenny didn't pay $16,500 cash for his house as one example.....

no evidence of any 727 taking off with the stairs locked you say? Really? no evidence of two people on the stairs at 6,000 feet either I bet? or several people on the stairs while it was taking off? doubtful right?

"He said he had a grudge, but not against NWA"
don't you often try and use Kenny being out of work because of the strikes from NWO for the grudge?

"he could have worked for an airline, or knew someone at Boeing. Or both."
"Maybe that's because he had personally never had to operate an airstair release lever before."

why would Kenny or someone familiar with the plane have trouble with the stairs. a purser would also be needed in a emergency situation on evacuating the passengers. If he did work for Boeing your claim of this person would also know the stairs drop to a certain point, or did Cooper only work at Boeing, or knew someone from there, but didn't know about the stairs which makes the whole point worthless? Tina knew how to operate them, I'll bet everyone working in the cabin were made aware of how they operate. probably mandatory. they have to know how to get the passengers out of the plane if an emergency should occur. so if Cooper did release the stairs and noticed they didn't lock he should have known that because he worked, or knew someone from Boeing, right? but still had trouble?

Personally I don't think he knew anything other than where the lever was, which could of easily been found out by asking a stew at any given time prior to the crime. Cooper could of "cased" the area as many criminals do before a crime. he doesn't have to be from the area simply by pointing out known landmarks. we can only speculate where and why he jumped where they think he jumped.

this is not your typical repeat offender type crime. how do we know Cooper wasn't an ordinary guy who was a frequent flyer and noticed the stairs coming down while sitting in a terminal? why does he HAVE to have worked at Boeing? people do crazy things for crazy reasons sometimes....we could all be so far off base, it's not funny..

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[CooperSnooper 0]

I have been hanging around this site for about 2 months and signed up a few weeks ago. I almost posted nothing but it is the only active DB Cooper forum I have found. It is really a shame the amount of personal sniping that goes on. I guess that is because it has been talked out for so many years. Not personal judgement, just an observation. Here is an alternate theory. I realize it is not completely original. I do not have some of the fact regarding the search of the plane after it landed to make a more educated supposition. If you can add to the list of absolute facts below, please do.


What we know – absolute facts.
• ‘Dan Cooper’ purchased a ticket and got on flight 305 in Portland
• He demanded $200K and 4 parachutes
• The plane proceeded to Seattle for refueling and to transfer money and parachutes to plane
• All passengers and crew except for 4 crew members were released in Seattle
• Plane took off and headed toward Reno
• During flight the aft stairs were deployed
• Plane landed in Reno and ‘Dan Cooper’ was gone
• The only two pieces of physical evidence ever found on the ground and identified are the aft stair placard and the bundle of money at Tena Bar
What I want to know
• How well was the plane searched after landing in Reno for the possibility that he never left the plane?
• When was the next flight of the N467US plane, or where was it stored while repairing the rear stairs?
• Were all passengers carry-on cases searched when they were released?
• Is there a possible(not necessarily probable) place to hide on the plane and avoid be discovered?
• Is it possible to get to the cargo area from the passenger compartment on that model 727?
• Is it possible to have hidden on the plane in ‘plain sight’ and not been detected? Maybe behind a wall panel or in the floor or ceiling.
The reason for these speculations (and that is all they are) is because if all of his belongings (briefcase, shoes, parachutes, money bag, etc) went out of the plane, it is hard to believe that NONE of it was discovered at some point. If he went splat, then add his body to the list. If he went directly into a lake then there is certainly a chance that is body and chute sank. If that were the case, then it is still hard to believe that his brief case stayed with him for the entire trip down. It stands to reason that it would have been on a different path.
I don’t have the answers for the above questions. If anyone has answers to the questions or blueprints of the 727 that may shed light on some this, I would appreciate it.

My grand THEORY is that he got on the plane, got his parachutes and money and never jumped. I think he had some place on the plane to hide. The Tena Bar money was a plant that was done later. I believe the research on the rubber bands that states they could not have survived for those years outside and still were intact. Also, three bundles of money in one spot seem to be a plant. In my mind, it would be impossible for three bundles to land in the same spot with intact rubber bands on them, especially since they would have been in the environment for nearly 9 years.

[mrshutter45 21]

welcome by the way. many have also wondered about Cooper hiding on the plane, myself included. one of the problems I see with this is if he did manage to hide undetected one would think he would leave the chutes and briefcase behind. this was never found when the plane was scrapped.

lots of speculation surrounding the money. the FBI was never on his trail so why leave hard earned money to throw them off a path they were never on? just because the money was found the way it was doesn't mean it has to be a plant. Mother Nature does strange things.

according to the FBI the plane was searched with certainty of Cooper not being on the plane when it landed. they also had dogs searching the plane.

I'm not sure when the plane was available for it's normal flights. perhaps someone on thread has that answer....

Has there ever been a documented case of a suspect returning to the crime scene to plant evidence to throw them off the trail years after the fact?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 53]

RobertMBlevins

[Blevins addressing Bruce Smith.]

For a guy who once worked for a newspaper, and who now has his own online paper...you sure miss the point sometimes on interviews.

You're what I call The One Shot Wonder on interviews. You come on like gang-busters, and then if you don't get what you feel you deserve, you either write shit about the person you interviewed, or they stonewall you, or both. This means you seldom or never get a 'comeback' interview. You just go from one to the next, one-time-only, until you run out of resources. This is not a good interview method.

One of these days you're going to figure out that manners and respect work much better. Unless the person you are attempting to interview is a heinous criminal, your method is worthless. You have all these interviews posted at Mountain News on Cooper. But in the vast majority you never found out a thing. Just 'confronting' people and then whining later when they shut you out doesn't count under the Famous W's for solid articles.

I will give you an exception on Norman Hayden. But I found out more from him in thirty minutes over the phone than you did spending half the day with him in person.

But after all that, I still have not given up on you. And believe it or not, I actually LIKE you.
Yes, the book is good. Yes, your venue (Mountain News) is good. Just need to tweak the interviewing technique a bit for better results. Here's an example.

Blevins, Would you be kind enough to list ANY qualifications that you have, or had at any time in the past, that you feel qualifies you to lecture Bruce Smith on journalism or any other subject.

Blevins, have you ever been employed as a writer or reporter in a position where you were actually paid for your work? How many courses did you take in your junior college days in journalism related subjects? Would the answers to the above questions be "no" and "none"?

Your feel free to lecture anyone on any subject but you are unable or unwilling to explain the errors in the book you claim you wrote.

Robert99

[Robert99 53]

mrshutter45

I'm not sure when the plane was available for it's normal flights. perhaps someone on thread has that answer.

The aircraft was reportedly flown from Reno back to Seattle the day after the hijacking (this would mean Thanksgiving Day). The stairs did not drag the runway until the aircraft was going very slow and the damage to the stairs was minimal. There are pictures on Sluggo's web page (I think it is) of the aft stairs that were taken at Reno showing this slight damage.

[mrshutter45 21]

Robert99

***

I'm not sure when the plane was available for it's normal flights. perhaps someone on thread has that answer.

The aircraft was reportedly flown from Reno back to Seattle the day after the hijacking (this would mean Thanksgiving Day). The stairs did not drag the runway until the aircraft was going very slow and the damage to the stairs was minimal. There are pictures on Sluggo's web page (I think it is) of the aft stairs that were taken at Reno showing this slight damage.

I took a still off the video a while back showing the stairs just after landing at Reno. it must of been soon after the landing. still presents of the dogs around.

also look at the note on the photo named Tarmac. things I never took notice of while looking at the photo.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[georger 256]

RobertMBlevins

***

Quote

"...YOU don't think you OWE the interviewee anything - YOU owe them accuracy and to set aside YOUR PERSONAL opinions about the person..."

Not true, Mrs. Cooper. In fact, I sent you a copy of my writing about you for your review, as I have done with all my interviews that I have the capacity to get in touch with.

Usually that means an email address. My standard operating principal is to share a draft with all my interviewees for the sake of gaining greater acccuracy. I do not give anyone editing power or the ability to cancel or delete anything, only to clarify the truth of what they have said to me.

Sometimes, such as with Carol Abracadabra, the revisions can be quite extensive. Others, such as yourself, their requests to change what I wrote were denied. In your case I refused because what you asked of me, in my judgement, was a request to white-wash what you have long told me.

For a few, their vascilations go in the book as just that - they told me one thing in 2010 and another wholly contradictory account three years later, as in the case of Don Burnworth's daughter. In her case I provide both accounts that she has given me.

A handful, such as Nick O'Hara, go in with a detailed account of the dialogue of his effort to stonewall me.

The rule is, and I did not make this rule but I fully understand it, is that the author always gets the last word. That's the way it is. You may not like it, but as I have often told you I believe strongly that you should write your own book and tell your story just way you want it. That way you get the last word on your account of your husband's journey.

Truly Mrs Cooper, I doubt you will ever find any serious writer who will write your story just the way you would like it written.

At this point, I doubt that your husband ever said anything about Dan Cooper, DB Cooper, or any skyjacking. You have never offered any proof that he said what you claim he did. But you have a great story, so keep the pen moving!

For a guy who once worked for a newspaper, and who now has his own online paper...you sure miss the point sometimes on interviews.

You're what I call The One Shot Wonder on interviews. You come on like gang-busters, and then if you don't get what you feel you deserve, you either write shit about the person you interviewed, or they stonewall you, or both. This means you seldom or never get a 'comeback' interview. You just go from one to the next, one-time-only, until you run out of resources. This is not a good interview method.

One of these days you're going to figure out that manners and respect work much better. Unless the person you are attempting to interview is a heinous criminal, your method is worthless. You have all these interviews posted at Mountain News on Cooper. But in the vast majority you never found out a thing. Just 'confronting' people and then whining later when they shut you out doesn't count under the Famous W's for solid articles.

I will give you an exception on Norman Hayden. But I found out more from him in thirty minutes over the phone than you did spending half the day with him in person.

But after all that, I still have not given up on you. And believe it or not, I actually LIKE you.
Yes, the book is good. Yes, your venue (Mountain News) is good. Just need to tweak the interviewing technique a bit for better results. Here's an example.
And we like you too Robert.

Be sure to stop by and see Kathy on the way out. She needs
some insurance information you evidently failed to fill out last
time.

Thanks for your cooperation. We'll see you next week. Have a
good day. I know it's hard.

[georger 256]

RobertMBlevins

Robert 99 says...(in quotes with my responses below them)

Quote

While the aircraft was on the ground in Seattle, Cooper had an argument with the cockpit crew.

Yes. He wanted to take off with the stairs down. The conclusion here is obvious. He wasn't staying around long once the plane reached jump height. Since he made certain comments showing he was familiar with both the area and the distance and travel time to McChord AFB, he was probably local.
***The cockpit crew claimed the 727 could not take off with the rear stairs down, but Cooper told Tina that he knew it could do so.

I don't think you are lying, but I would like to see proof that Cooper actually told her this.

Quote

There may have been a slight misunderstanding in the use of the word "down". The cockpit crew apparently thought Cooper meant "down and locked" as in normal ramp operations. Cooper apparently just meant "down but not locked".

Even 'down but not locked' would cause the stairs to drag along the runway. Since no one has ever attempted to do this, the results would be unknown. We know the stairs dragged in Reno during landing. There is no possible way Cooper could know one way or another that dragging the stairs on takeoff might cause sufficient damage to crash the jet. Again: Because no one has tried that, before or since. Not even Air America or the CIA. During the Boeing flight tests, the stairs were lowered in-flight. Conclusion: Without a previous history of ANY 727 trying that takeoff maneuver, he was either guessing, wanted to try it anyway, or didn't really know.

Quote

Cooper eventually relented just to get the aircraft off the ground and the aft stairs remained up and locked for the takeoff.

True enough.

Quote

Cooper definitely had problems with the aft stair control panel even after being instructed by Tina on how to use it.

Not THAT much trouble. It's a single handle. And we know he finally managed it. You push it, the stairs drop. Maybe he just didn't expect them to drop only 24"-36" initially, as Bill Rataczak and others have testified they will do in-flight. When you are expecting enough room to get down the stairs, and realize there's only a two or three foot high opening, it could be a surprise, especially when you are carrying a big load.

Quote

Based on other things, Cooper had knowledge of parachutes and aircraft operations. But he obviously did not have knowledge of the aft stair operations in 727 civilian airliners.

Maybe that's because he had personally never had to operate an airstair release lever before.

Quote

But Cooper had obtained knowledge of 727 aircraft from somewhere. It appears that the Southeast Asia 727 operations would be the probable source of that knowledge.

Possible, but not the simplest explanation. The hijacker knew what he wanted regarding the flight controls, and was familiar with the Puget Sound area. And at the time of the hijacking, Boeing was one of the largest single employers in the area. Everyone in Puget Sound knew somebody who worked for Boeing. Any knowledge he acquired on the 727 was most likely from a Boeing employee, not the CIA halfway around the world. If the hijacking had happened anywhere else, or Cooper had not made NW-related comments, then maybe. Otherwise this scenario is unlikely.

Quote

Since the 727s used in Southeast Asia had been modified and the modifications tested in flight (including aft stairs down), it is probable that the control panel for the aft stairs was different for those specific aircraft and not identical to the control panel in the civilian 727s.

See previous response...unless you are saying these CIA flights routinely kept the stairs down full-time during takeoff and landing.

Quote

If Cooper was in his mid to late 40s as generally claimed, he could have had a complete USAF career behind him before starting a second career with the famous "Other Government Organizations".

There is no proof of those things, of course. I strongly believe he was from the Puget Sound area. The comments, the desire to have the stairs down on takeoff, all of these things point to that.

Quote

He could have been a cargo kicker, or aircraft mechanic, or who knows what else. But he definitely knew how to find information in flight manuals and aircraft publications and had access to those documents.

Or...he could have worked for an airline, or knew someone at Boeing. Or both.

Quote

My guess would be that Cooper was ex-military in some aeronautical related field, had joined an OGO, spent quite a bit of time outside the USA, and had a "grudge" (not related to NWA) as a result of his experiences.

Those are total guesses, as good as any other I suppose. Your grudge reference refers to when Tina asked Cooper if he had a grudge against the airline. He said he had a grudge, but not against NWA. This means little, because even if he did, he would not say so. Since he did not act out during the hijacking, make any political references, or allude to any other reason he was hijacking the flight, the motive seems to be only the money.

Quote

But his parachute experience was probably limited and as someone put it, "he knew just enough about parachutes to get himself killed".

That's the opinion of Larry Carr. I've been told that the general scuttlebutt around the Seattle FBI is about the same as the public's. Some think he died, others think he lived. More agents in the Seattle office started leaning toward 'he died' after the Tina Bar money was found. But no one has discovered a shred of him, the briefcase, or the two chutes and it's been more than forty years.

And we like you too Robert.

Be sure to stop by and see Kathy on the way out. She needs
some insurance information you evidently failed to fill out last
time.

Thanks for your cooperation. We'll see you next week. Have a
good day. I know it's hard.

[georger 256]

skyjack71

*********

Galen has also asked me to respect his position pitching his book and his investment in finding these two indivuduals. As a result, he has not given me the contact information for them, and I have been unable to find either one of them on my own.

It is NO wonder Galen does NOT want you contacting these individuals. He has already experience 1st hand what happens when you approach the witnesses.

Strange that GALEN has never attested to the things you claimed.
Remember I was in contact with Galen at that time. He sent me one of the pictures in the mail. YOU didn't know that did you? ONLY after the fact and you were very unhappy about that - infact you were STEAMING!



I believe that you are zero for three, here, Mrs. Cooper. I've asked you three times for an instance of my lying. Yet, you haven't been able to produce a single item.

I'm done. Three strikes and you're out, too. G-bye Mrs. Cooper. Take a seat on the bench.

WELL, you better read back to the beginning of your postings in this thread .....and account for all of the horrible things you have said about the subjects over the yrs.
Right now you are just another wannabe promoting a book.


And we like you too Jo.

Be sure to stop by and see Kathy on the way out. She needs
some insurance information you evidently failed to fill out last
time.

Thanks for your cooperation. We'll see you next week. Have a
good day. I know it's hard.

[smokin99 0]

CooperSnooper

..........
• When was the next flight of the N467US plane, or where was it stored while repairing the rear stairs?
.......
.

Hi CS,
Though R99 might be correct that it was flown back to Seattle the next day, I don't know that I've ever seen the answer to this question anywhere.

Do we have any knowledge that it went back into service immediately? The only info that I know of that might have a bearing on this is:

On this forum, Ckret (Larry Carr, FBI) states that Cooper's seat was removed and sent to Quantico.
The sled test was performed on Jan 6, 1972.

Not saying that the plane had to be out of commission for either of these to take place - just throwing it out there fwiw.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Robert99 53]

Blevins writes:

Yes. He wanted to take off with the stairs down. The conclusion here is obvious. He wasn't staying around long once the plane reached jump height. Since he made certain comments showing he was familiar with both the area and the distance and travel time to McChord AFB, he was probably local.

R99 replies:

Blevins, your comments about Cooper being local is simply not based on any valid information. The information he had of the Seattle area could have been determined from a quick look at an area map or even by a one-time visit to the area at an earlier date.

Blevins writes:

[Remarks on Cooper's comment that he knew the airliner could take off with the stairs down.] I don't think you are lying, but I would like to see proof that Cooper actually told her this.

R99 replies:

Blevins, I don't think you are lying, the KC matter being a possible exception, but the discussion about taking off with the stairs down is on page 28 of Tosaw's book. I realize that you have no interest in doing research, but this matter has been talked to death on this thread over the last several years. You might benefit from actually reading some of the posts other than your own.

Blevins writes:

Even 'down but not locked' would cause the stairs to drag along the runway. Since no one has ever attempted to do this, the results would be unknown. We know the stairs dragged in Reno during landing. There is no possible way Cooper could know one way or another that dragging the stairs on takeoff might cause sufficient damage to crash the jet. Again: Because no one has tried that, before or since. Not even Air America or the CIA. During the Boeing flight tests, the stairs were lowered in-flight. Conclusion: Without a previous history of ANY 727 trying that takeoff maneuver, he was either guessing, wanted to try it anyway, or didn't really know.

R99 replies:

Blevins, So you feel that you can speak for Air America, the CIA, and Boeing? You don't have a single thing to support these statements.

As has been previously pointed out on this thread, there are pictures available online showing 727s in Southeast Asia taxing with the aft stairs down. These stairs were not dragging the runway and the aircraft would have absolutely no problem taking off with the stairs in that position.

And as has been previously pointed out on this thread, the damage to the aft stairs on landing in Reno was minimal. Blevins should check out some of the information on this point before doing his pontification bit.

Blevins writes:

[On Cooper's problems getting the stairs down.]

Not THAT much trouble. It's a single handle. And we know he finally managed it. You push it, the stairs drop. Maybe he just didn't expect them to drop only 24"-36" initially, as Bill Rataczak and others have testified they will do in-flight. When you are expecting enough room to get down the stairs, and realize there's only a two or three foot high opening, it could be a surprise, especially when you are carrying a big load.

R99 replies:

Blevins, Are you now claiming personal experience in lowering the aft stairs on an airborne 727? The rest of your comments are pure speculations. And you should know from the thread's discussion of this matter that the stair opening increases dramatically once weight is put on the stairs. Haven't you seen the pictures from the FBI flight tests?

Blevins writes:

The rest of Blevins comments are an effort to present a case for Cooper being from the Seattle area and somehow associated with Boeing.

R99 replies:

Blevins, How about presenting some realistic and meaningful evidence to support your allegations above.

Robert99

[Robert99 53]

mrshutter45

******

I'm not sure when the plane was available for it's normal flights. perhaps someone on thread has that answer.

The aircraft was reportedly flown from Reno back to Seattle the day after the hijacking (this would mean Thanksgiving Day). The stairs did not drag the runway until the aircraft was going very slow and the damage to the stairs was minimal. There are pictures on Sluggo's web page (I think it is) of the aft stairs that were taken at Reno showing this slight damage.

I took a still off the video a while back showing the stairs just after landing at Reno. it must of been soon after the landing. still presents of the dogs around.

also look at the note on the photo named Tarmac. things I never took notice of while looking at the photo.

Shutter, there is an even better photograph online somewhere that shows an individual standing just under the rear of the aircraft and looking up at the stairs which are closed in that photo. The picture may be from a newspaper. But it was taken from just a few feet from the stairs and clearly shows only minimal damage to them.

[airtwardo 7]

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Blevins, Would you be kind enough to list ANY qualifications that you have, or had at any time in the past, that you feel qualifies you to lecture Bruce Smith on journalism or any other subject.

Blevins, have you ever been employed as a writer or reporter in a position where you were actually paid for your work? How many courses did you take in your junior college days in journalism related subjects? Would the answers to the above questions be "no" and "none"?

Your feel free to lecture anyone on any subject but you are unable or unwilling to explain the errors in the book you claim you wrote.

Robert99

I know you didn't address to me, but since I too made some comments regarding Bruce...in the interest of disclosure -

I happen to have a B.S. in Journalism and have written for a small midwest paper, submitted numerous feature articles published in sports related magazines including interviews with high profile personalities in the airshow and air race industry.

The question of ethics in journalism has always been of interest to me as I had some very insightful classes on the subject...back when I went through the university system, we had to take one type of ethics related class just about every semester.

That's how important they felt the topic was.

A good interview is one that doesn't leave your footprints anywhere within the final product, and that's an honorable goal...opinions or editorializing the content have their place, but measures should be taken to differentiate your slant from the actual facts.

It should be blatantly obvious that 'X' happened and is provable with facts or reliable sources & 'Y' is the writers take on the context.

Most anything else is tabloid.


Funny looking back to when I got my degree...there were those instructors that absolutely nailed the way much of what passes for journalism today 'would come about' in their warnings of what NOT to do back then.

Slippery slope when the journalist injects himself into the story...

When I studied journalism it was an honorable vocation when done well...one worked hard to establish and maintain a trust.

No story was worth compromising your reputation.

While a story very well can 'hurt' someone, a true journalist lets the facts of the story do that, they should never go out of their way to vilify or to slant their personal feelings into it...only a hack or a bully does something like that.

Edited to add:
To be clear ~ I'm not calling Bruce a hack or bully, in truth I've read only a small amount of his published product.

I was just questioning the tactic he himself explained and then qualified. I didn't know then, and still may not fully understand the exact way & why he does what he does...but if my perception is correct - I don't agree with it.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[377 22]

CooperSnooper wrote

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• Is there a possible(not necessarily probable) place to hide on the plane and avoid be discovered?

I've looked a lot at my 727 manuals wondering the same thing. I believe the answer is no. I corresponded with two 727 pilots who share the same opinion. The pressure bump from stair rebound strongly suggests Cooper exited aloft.

Hiding on the plane would be an extraordinarily risky gamble even if it were possible. Chances of being found would be high in my opinion.

Welcome to the forum.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Airtwardo wrote

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No story was worth compromising your reputation

The good old days of print journalism. Accountability and integrity. So many journalists have been busted in the last few years for fabricating facts, inventing "composite" people, etc. What happened? I don't recall seeing much of this kind of fraud in my earlier days.

Is there a fraud increase or is it just easier to detect now?

It's sad when investigative reporters have to investigate investigative reporters.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

Robert 99 says...

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There may have been a slight misunderstanding in the use of the word "down". The cockpit crew apparently thought Cooper meant "down and locked" as in normal ramp operations. Cooper apparently just meant "down but not locked".

Blevins responds: *** Even 'down but not locked' would cause the stairs to drag along the runway. Since no one has ever attempted to do this, the results would be unknown. We know the stairs dragged in Reno during landing. There is no possible way Cooper could know one way or another that dragging the stairs on takeoff might cause sufficient damage to crash the jet. Again: Because no one has tried that, before or since. Not even Air America or the CIA. During the Boeing flight tests, the stairs were lowered in-flight. Conclusion: Without a previous history of ANY 727 trying that takeoff maneuver, he was either guessing, wanted to try it anyway, or didn't really know.

Smokin sez: This is incorrect. I just posted a video of an airlift that showed the 727 taxing and leaving the ground with the stairs down. If they did it then, there is ABSOLUTELY no way that you can say with certainty - as you have - that they didn't do it before. As a matter of fact, it is probably more likely than not that those doing things like airlifts and airdrops either knew it could be done or had done it before. .

robert99 said: .

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Cooper definitely had problems with the aft stair control panel even after being instructed by Tina on how to use it.

Blevins responds:

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Not THAT much trouble. It's a single handle. And we know he finally managed it. You push it, the stairs drop. Maybe he just didn't expect them to drop only 24"-36" initially, as Bill Rataczak and others have testified they will do in-flight. When you are expecting enough room to get down the stairs, and realize there's only a two or three foot high opening, it could be a surprise, especially when you are carrying a big load.

Smokin sez: Woah Nelly. The key word is FINALLY managed it. If the hijacker was wanting to jump out either before the plane left the ground or shortly thereafter (by virtue of wanting to start out with the door open), in reality the jump probably did not occur for some 40ish mins after the plane was in the air. And at least 30 mins from the time Tina saw him tying the money to his waist and joined the rest of the crew in the cockpit. As to a 24 - 36 in opening, also see video with man standing on stairs while several others are hanging on to it. I imagine the stairs would go all the way down just like in the sled test. He had the room - more than likely he had not a clue how to open the stairs.

Now he might have been just twiddling his thumbs or perusing the latest issue of SkyMall, but logical conjecture says he was having plenty enough trouble getting the door open. And was likely getting more nervous as he knew that he was getting further away from where he wanted his dropzone to be - if we go with the Carr assumption that he wanted to jump pretty quickly after takeoff.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

well said. to conclude I don't think I have seen any suspects investigated properly on this thread. Jo has dug deep into Duane's past, but most of it can't be validated. Mr. Blevins seems to have taken the word of others rather doing proper document searches for answers. they all seem to take the story very personal which seems to blur possible answers to there theories they refuse to acknowledge.

everything said about a suspect's past should be backed up with documented evidence. taking the word of a said purchase of anything is hardly a fact. lots of misleading information turned into facts show up often. according to documents from Pierce County. Kenny Christiansen sold a large lot containing over 17 acres of land selling at a price of $17,000 an acre. this was just a few years before he died. this could easily explain the large sum of money he had in the bank. instead of properly checking financial reports of individuals they leave a dark mystery behind what they consider fact. it gives a false impressions of the truth.

I think many of these people are so involved into trying to find answers that they become blind to the truth. some could possibly have other reasons not to agree that there findings are inaccurate due to time involved, or books in place that would be totally inaccurate further damaging credibility.

you would think that two of the major suspects pushed on this thread have been on television numerous times, countless websites, radio programs, newspapers etc. don't you think either some or all of the living witnesses to this crime would have stumbled over these stories about the possibility they are DB Cooper at one point in time? Weber goes back to 1996. KC is closing in on a decade as well. do we trust the judgment of these people over the FBI?????

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI