georger 247
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Quote"In 1971, Duane Weber's emotional and physical health were failing. He was on the verge of separating from his fifth wife and had been diagnosed with kidney disease; he was not
expected to live past 50. " (He was 47)
Duane had polycystic kidney disease, PKD ? In 1970 or 1971 the life expectance was 5 yrs with proper diet maybe 10. You did not mention PKD advances in stages. This is what Duane did - the disease progressed in stages and it held its own for 12 yrs before forcing him on dialysis. Diet and life style changes are very necessary to do this - we did not use salt or salt substitues and other foods did not come into play in our lives. He was drinking in the beginning but he gave that up eventually.
His mother died after 2 yrs on the rudimentary machines of the 50's - that is the image he had in his mind at the time of his diagnosis in 1970 or 71 (I was not with him at that time I do not know when he was hospitalized the first time when the diagnosis was made.)
=====================
QuotePlease explain how a 47 year old man already involved in a family breakup and diagnosed with polycystic kidney disease (PKD) at some location in the USA, has the energy to travel much less to hijack an aeroplane? That is some tall order!
It was I believe 1970 or 71 that he was diagnosed - he had been having blood pressure problems and they found the PKD - his mother died on a kidney machine from the same disease. As with other diseases you can live a very normal life for a period of time after diagnosis...not much was know in the early 70's about the stages - that is why it hit him so hard. There were changes in treatment and a better understanding of the disease as the yrs advanced.
=================
QuoteWas Duane on dialysis? When did he finally go on
dialysis or was there a transplant, or a misdiagnosis?
Duane did not go on dialysis until 1990. He turned down a chance for a transplant in Birmingham during his 1st yr on dialysis - he told them he had lived a full life and did not want to take a kidney that might save a younger person.
As I have said the man would give you the shirt off his back - it is hard to believe he was a 17 yr felon and that he did all the things that I have learned he did do. After age 65 you were not eligible for a transplant in 1990.
=====================
QuotePDK often presents as a genetic condition
Duane's condition was of the hereditary type.
=================
QuoteAutosomal Dominant or Recessive?
I don't know.
============
QuoteIn either case there are definate genetic markers.
The FBI has partial dna profiles for Cooper. I wonder if they looked for Duane's PK markers in the Cooper
profiles they have
If the tie belonged to Cooper - but there is another story about the tie.
Of course none of us know what they looked for - I would rather they compare with known DNA - like the cigarrette butts.
=====================
QuoteLastly, PKD and psychogenesis have a strong correlation, as hormonal levels cycle and blood chemistry changes (as in any kidney condition). Edited as the criterior you list is not applicable
In the 5 yrs of dialysis and considering all of the patients we met with and associated with it - I did not see the symptoms you describe. First you are a money expert and now you are a PKD specialist.
Sorry that doesn't work for someone who was married to a man for 17 yrs who underwent shunts, damage to the nerves due to misplacement of the shunt, placement of a proper shunt and 5 yrs on the kidney machine...I do believe you have over stepped your boundary lines here.
What I will say is that if you were connected to a machine for 4 hrs 3 days a week - you would have fatigue and mood swings - the same goes for cancer treatment or any other life threatening disease.
The symptoms you are describing are only in the advance stages and on individuals who are not getting treatment.
======================
QuoteOnset symptoms may include anti social behaviors
before victims and their families become aware of the condition's existence.
He was an ordinary man when I knew him - he had problems in prior yrs as the record speaks for its self. The man I knew did not present as you have stated. Nor did anyone else out of the scores of other PKD's we met.
This is enough of the PKD - Duane was physically able to do that jump in 1971. Emotionally in 1971 he felt the world had come to an end - all he could invision was what his mother went thru -- he didn't want to die like that. 
If he had a grudge it would be that he inherited his mothers genes.
If he had a wish - it was not to die the way his mother did.
The motive and the state of mind!
You walked right into that one Georger.
Georger are you not the one who said I would be begging the forum for certain things..... that Duane Weber would never have been considered as a suspect had it not been for Himmelsbach. Let me assure you the FBI did nothing to prove or disprove Duane was Cooper.....even when I told them where to look.
by listening. I will always respect and admire him for standing by me - not one time did he offer any information not made public, but he listened when no one else would.
It is 5 AM and I haven't slept, but I did this same thing the day before...if the Cooper thing is not the death of me then lack of sleep will be. Maybe soon we will know who Cooper was - or maybe we are caught in a time warp - 13 yrs - seems like 37 to me.
P.S. What does Herington, Ks mean to anyone in this forum?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
QuoteCkret:
Did anyone report the hijacker having a particular
odor?
Georger
No one in the dialysis unit and in the other activities had an odor...that information is like the myths that go on and on.
Before this is over you will have the Drs. saying the type of kidney disease Duane had would created a body odor. I do not know where you get your information, but I suggest you spend a day at a diaylsis unit (they can use volunteers) before you blast yourself into outer space.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
georger 247
His mother died after 2 yrs on the rudimentary machines of the 50's - that is the image he had in his mind at the time of his diagnosis in 1970 or 71 (I was not with him at that time I do not know when he was hospitalized the first time when the diagnosis was made.)
Duane's condition was of the hereditary type.
Emotionally in 1971 he felt the world had come to an end - all he could invision was what his mother went thru -- he didn't want to die like that. If he had a grudge it would be that he inherited his mothers genes.
If he had a wish - it was not to die the way his mother did.
The motive and the state of mind!
You walked right into that one Georger.
Reply> Jo, you have a mean streak and it gets you
into trouble - . But your comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will change.
I am not the money man. I am a person who assembled a panel of experts (6-10) who are examining the whole Cooper case, with special
emphasis on physical evidence which includes
the money. I have a place on that panel, but we work as a panel.
Good luck.
Georger
Open Question:
The only recovered money from the Cooper heist was what Ingram found on the shoreline of the Columbia River in 1980. If Cooper lived through the jump and spent some of the money, would any of those $20 bills have made their way back to the U.S. Treasury Department when old bills are recalled by the government? Would any of those old, recalled bills be identifiable by serial numbers years later? Snowman, Georger, 377, Orange, others, ............?
The only recovered money from the Cooper heist was what Ingram found on the shoreline of the Columbia River in 1980. If Cooper lived through the jump and spent some of the money, would any of those $20 bills have made their way back to the U.S. Treasury Department when old bills are recalled by the government? Would any of those old, recalled bills be identifiable by serial numbers years later? Snowman, Georger, 377, Orange, others, ............?
ltdiver 3
QuoteOpen Question:
The only recovered money from the Cooper heist was what Ingram found on the shoreline of the Columbia River in 1980. If Cooper lived through the jump and spent some of the money, would any of those $20 bills have made their way back to the U.S. Treasury Department when old bills are recalled by the government? Would any of those old, recalled bills be identifiable by serial numbers years later? Snowman, Georger, 377, Orange, others, ............?
This has been covered in length, many times on this forum.
A simple search with key words will net what you're looking for.
For example: type the words "$20" and "treasury" in the search box below and it nets this: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=forum_21&search_type=AND&search_string=%2420+treasury
ltdiver
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
QuoteHis mother died after 2 yrs on the rudimentary machines of the 50's - that is the image he had in his mind at the time of his diagnosis in 1970 or 71
Duane's condition was of the hereditary type.
Emotionally in 1971 he felt the world had come to an end - all he could invision was what his mother went thru -- he didn't want to die like that.If he had a grudge it would be that he inherited his mothers genes.
The motive and the state of mind!
You walked right into that one Georger.
=========================
Georger this is you reply to my post: "Jo, you have a mean streak and it gets you into trouble . But your comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will change."
==================
Georger:
Why can't you see motive in his illness and connection to his mother - obviously you have NO idea what living on a kidney machine in the 50's was like or you would know what was going thur Duane's mind. "Hell if I am going to die - I will go out in a blaze - if I live then I got enough money to live on before this disease puts me on welfare."
What little was know about the disease made it more frightening than a cancer diagnosis because there was NO cure - but technology brought in new machines, transplants and other ways to manage the disease - he got to live to see those days.
=================
.QuoteI am not the money man. I am a person who assembled a panel of experts (6-10) who are examining the whole Cooper case, with special emphasis on physical evidence which includes the money. I have a place on that panel, but we work as a panel
If you are truely doing this: WHY do you knock me every chance you get - it only proves the conspiracy theory with how negative you are regarding Duane and this influences anyone else on the panel.
If the group is being paid by the government and if they are being paid by a private party - it means they are biased to the employer. It is a NO WIN thing to finding COOPER.
If you have connections to the FBI - so be it. There are FBI agents who have their own agenda in this case - IF some of the information I have recieve is correct
The FBI never verified if a person contacting me was legitimate or not but he incriminated several people in the incident including an FBI agent. No, he did not accuse Himmelsbach - it was another name and if you truely got your facts together then you know the name of that agent.
His story went so far as to say the co-pilot trained Cooper,
I have not been able to digest 95% of what this man told me. I did test him to see how much was real and how much was fantasy. He would tell me a story and then I would send him FALSE information on which he would build a fantasy story. To protect myself from his fantasy - I would copy each E-mail to a party who knew what was truth and what was false - thru this process I had to eliminate most of what he had told me, but a couple of small pieces of information held on - this man knew Duane and his wife, but just how is yet to be determined. This man knew something else and the only way to shut him up was to declare him certifiably mentally distrubed just like you are TRYING to do with me.
You do this publically in a forum and you know that when the public hears something long enough - they start to believe it.
NOT one thing I stated warrants your statement when you replied to the comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971. They definitely establish a motive.
IF you really spoke with Tina and showed her a picture line of all the suspects along with other pictures submitted by family memembersof these indiividual that had never been publicized - You might be surprised - images can trigger aconversation long buried in our memory...but the you know that. After all that was your specialty wasn't it?
=====================
Quote
George States:
Motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will
For Heaven Sakes - Why are you even on the panel - any fifth grader can see the connection between Duane and Cooper. You did miss anything that even attemps to link Duane no mater how trivial - Therefore it appears this panel was establish to prove Cooper died or it has been establish for the benefit of a book.
TI am mean as hell today - a friend of mine has died.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
Got a flat tire today.
Lining up hookers, blow, tequila slammers, lawyers, guns and money to get another NW flight timetable. Hopefully goes down okay.
I've stopped looking backwards at Jo's history of posts because it doesn't matter.
But since I've got some beers in me, I have a question:
I seem to remember Jo making a big deal of Duane's income in 1971..him buying stuff.
yet at the same time, there's a claim that all the money was lost: $173,000 in a bucket that can't be found, plus the bundles that were dug up by packs of wild dogs and young children raised by wolves.
Why is there a "where did the money come from" story for Duane, if all the money was "lost"..
now where's the bottle opener...
And why the heck can't we talk about the Symba Bill. Who's running that conspiracy? I'll stay in charge of controlling the public, but we need some damn accountability in the rest of the cabal!
Lining up hookers, blow, tequila slammers, lawyers, guns and money to get another NW flight timetable. Hopefully goes down okay.
I've stopped looking backwards at Jo's history of posts because it doesn't matter.
But since I've got some beers in me, I have a question:
I seem to remember Jo making a big deal of Duane's income in 1971..him buying stuff.
yet at the same time, there's a claim that all the money was lost: $173,000 in a bucket that can't be found, plus the bundles that were dug up by packs of wild dogs and young children raised by wolves.
Why is there a "where did the money come from" story for Duane, if all the money was "lost"..
now where's the bottle opener...
And why the heck can't we talk about the Symba Bill. Who's running that conspiracy? I'll stay in charge of controlling the public, but we need some damn accountability in the rest of the cabal!
georger 247
QuoteOpen Question:
The only recovered money from the Cooper heist was what Ingram found on the shoreline of the Columbia River in 1980. If Cooper lived through the jump and spent some of the money, would any of those $20 bills have made their way back to the U.S. Treasury Department when old bills are recalled by the government? Would any of those old, recalled bills be identifiable by serial numbers years later? Snowman, Georger, 377, Orange, others, ............?
Hi Buzzard. Short answer is no and not likely.
Tha stats dont favour it happening. Many have
discussed this here - you can do a search and call
up the various posts.
The Cooper threads here at DZ now comprise a
large compendium of issues related to Cooper ..
it would make good winter night reading.
Good luck -
Georger
georger 247
QuoteQuoteHis mother died after 2 yrs on the rudimentary machines of the 50's - that is the image he had in his mind at the time of his diagnosis in 1970 or 71
Duane's condition was of the hereditary type.
Emotionally in 1971 he felt the world had come to an end - all he could invision was what his mother went thru -- he didn't want to die like that.
The motive and the state of mind!
You walked right into that one Georger.
=========================
Georger this is you reply to my post: "Jo, you have a mean streak and it gets you into trouble . But your comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will change."
==================
Georger:
Why can't you see motive in his illness and connection to his mother - obviously you have NO idea what living on a kidney machine in the 50's was like or you would know what was going thur Duane's mind. "Hell if I am going to die - I will go out in a blaze - if I live then I got enough money to live on before this disease puts me on welfare."
What little was know about the disease made it more frightening than a cancer diagnosis because there was NO cure - but technology brought in new machines, transplants and other ways to manage the disease - he got to live to see those days.
=================.QuoteI am not the money man. I am a person who assembled a panel of experts (6-10) who are examining the whole Cooper case, with special emphasis on physical evidence which includes the money. I have a place on that panel, but we work as a panel
If the group is being paid by the government and if they are being paid by a private party - it means they are biased to the employer. It is a NO WIN thing to finding COOPER.
The FBI never verified if a person contacting me was legitimate or not but he incriminated several people in the incident including an FBI agent. No, he did not accuse Himmelsbach - it was another name and if you truely got your facts together then you know the name of that agent.
His story went so far as to say the co-pilot trained Cooper,
I have not been able to digest 95% of what this man told me. I did test him to see how much was real and how much was fantasy. He would tell me a story and then I would send him FALSE information on which he would build a fantasy story. To protect myself from his fantasy - I would copy each E-mail to a party who knew what was truth and what was false - thru this process I had to eliminate most of what he had told me, but a couple of small pieces of information held on - this man knew Duane and his wife, but just how is yet to be determined. This man knew something else and the only way to shut him up was to declare him certifiably mentally distrubed just like you are TRYING to do with me.
You do this publically in a forum and you know that when the public hears something long enough - they start to believe it.
NOT one thing I stated warrants your statement when you replied to the comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971. They definitely establish a motive.
IF you really spoke with Tina and showed her a picture line of all the suspects along with other pictures submitted by family memembersof these indiividual that had never been publicized - You might be surprised - images can trigger aconversation long buried in our memory...but the you know that. After all that was your specialty wasn't it?
=====================Quote
George States:
Motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will
For Heaven Sakes - Why are you even on the panel - any fifth grader can see the connection between Duane and Cooper. You did miss anything that even attemps to link Duane no mater how trivial - Therefore it appears this panel was establish to prove Cooper died or it has been establish for the benefit of a book.
TI am mean as hell today - a friend of mine has died.
-----------------------------------------------------
Reply> It is pointless to debate this further.
Out of the thousands of posts Jo has made over
the years, only now does the pivital issue of Duane's
serious medical condition surface, a condition
involving facts and circumstances which bare directly on Duane's candidacy for being DB Cooper.
Perhaps this was never about Duane being Cooper,
at all, but something else?
Im only sorry it took me so long to run across this
piece of information. Let it be a lesson. The medical
conditions of Cooper candidates must be taken seriously, high up the chain in considering people.
Thanks,
Georger
georger 247
QuoteGot a flat tire today.
Lining up hookers, blow, tequila slammers, lawyers, guns and money to get another NW flight timetable. Hopefully goes down okay.
I've stopped looking backwards at Jo's history of posts because it doesn't matter.
But since I've got some beers in me, I have a question:
I seem to remember Jo making a big deal of Duane's income in 1971..him buying stuff.
yet at the same time, there's a claim that all the money was lost: $173,000 in a bucket that can't be found, plus the bundles that were dug up by packs of wild dogs and young children raised by wolves.
Why is there a "where did the money come from" story for Duane, if all the money was "lost"..
now where's the bottle opener...
And why the heck can't we talk about the Symba Bill. Who's running that conspiracy? I'll stay in charge of controlling the public, but we need some damn accountability in the rest of the cabal!
Reply> I can go with that!
Just a hint that there is no such thing as just
finger prints, ala Jo. What there is is transference.
Forget the grooves and lands and hills and vallies, and prominences and praetoria too, and all
the rest of that structural BS ... what you have is chemistry and even dna on a surface. Whatever the
guy was doing, its in the print too.
So class, let's say this all together -
NANO- meter. Nano. One more time, NAH-No.
Back to your regular program.
Symba Bill? Tarzan says: "get down Symba". Woops
I mean Jo!
Georger
377 22
Jo wrote:
Jo,
I think the FBI's agenda is to solve the case, PERIOD. What exactly is the "other" agenda you suspect is being run by some individual agents? Stop being tangential.
I think as tired as Ckret gets of hearing about Duane and being slammed by you, he'd name Duane as Cooper if he discovered unequivocal probative evidence.
Stuff happens in criminal investigations. Mistakes are made, evidence is mishandled or lost, etc. It doesn't prove that aliens crashed at Roswell or that the FBI is covering up evidence that proves Duane was Cooper.
Noise is fundamentally different from coherent signals. Noise can overwhelm signals. It can be loud. It can dominate a spectrum. You are making a fundamental mistake, however, when you draw conclusions from noise. It is like seeing faces in clouds.
377
QuoteThere are FBI agents who have their own agenda in this case - IF some of the information I have recieve is correct
Jo,
I think the FBI's agenda is to solve the case, PERIOD. What exactly is the "other" agenda you suspect is being run by some individual agents? Stop being tangential.
I think as tired as Ckret gets of hearing about Duane and being slammed by you, he'd name Duane as Cooper if he discovered unequivocal probative evidence.
Stuff happens in criminal investigations. Mistakes are made, evidence is mishandled or lost, etc. It doesn't prove that aliens crashed at Roswell or that the FBI is covering up evidence that proves Duane was Cooper.
Noise is fundamentally different from coherent signals. Noise can overwhelm signals. It can be loud. It can dominate a spectrum. You are making a fundamental mistake, however, when you draw conclusions from noise. It is like seeing faces in clouds.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteGot a flat tire today.
Lining up hookers, blow, tequila slammers, lawyers, guns and money to get another NW flight timetable. Hopefully goes down okay.
I've stopped looking backwards at Jo's history of posts because it doesn't matter.
But since I've got some beers in me, I have a question:
I seem to remember Jo making a big deal of Duane's income in 1971..him buying stuff.
yet at the same time, there's a claim that all the money was lost: $173,000 in a bucket that can't be found, plus the bundles that were dug up by packs of wild dogs and young children raised by wolves.
Why is there a "where did the money come from" story for Duane, if all the money was "lost"..
now where's the bottle opener...
And why the heck can't we talk about the Symba Bill. Who's running that conspiracy? I'll stay in charge of controlling the public, but we need some damn accountability in the rest of the cabal!
Excellent post Snowmman! Could it be because ya pulled silver, figuratively speaking? What kind of brew were you drinking? Come to think of it there likely aren't pull tabs on the civilized beer you prefer.
You nailed it. The loot can't have been spent on cars etc if it was buried on the other side of the country in pails. Jo has some "splainin" to do.
"hookers, blow, tequila slammers, lawyers, guns and money"... Lose the lawyers and you'll have one hell of a party there Snow. They'll want two hookers each, they'll drink and snort all your stuff and a month later you'll get a bill for "client meeting".
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
Reply> Jo, you have a mean streak and it gets you
into trouble - . But your comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will change.
I am not the money man. I am a person who assembled a panel of experts (6-10) who are examining the whole Cooper case, with special
emphasis on physical evidence which includes
the money. I have a place on that panel, but we work as a panel.
Good luck.
Georger
into trouble - . But your comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will change.
I am not the money man. I am a person who assembled a panel of experts (6-10) who are examining the whole Cooper case, with special
emphasis on physical evidence which includes
the money. I have a place on that panel, but we work as a panel.
Good luck.
Georger
While we spar and speculate and create incoherent NOISE...
Meanwhile, back in the BAT CAVE, Georger and his dream team of scientists are running mass spectrometers, sequencers, PCR machines, and gas chromatographs doing real science to detect SIGNALS.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 247
Quote
Reply> Jo, you have a mean streak and it gets you
into trouble - . But your comments about Duane's motive and state of mind in 1971 are appropriate. They establish a strong psychological connection between Duane and his mother. Can you not see with all of this, it is very unlikely Duane was Dan Cooper. ? But nobody expects you will change.
I am not the money man. I am a person who assembled a panel of experts (6-10) who are examining the whole Cooper case, with special
emphasis on physical evidence which includes
the money. I have a place on that panel, but we work as a panel.
Good luck.
Georger
While we spar and speculate and create incoherent NOISE...
Meanwhile, back in the BAT CAVE, Georger and his dream team of scientists are running mass spectrometers, sequencers, PCR machines, and gas chromatographs doing real science to detect SIGNALS.
377
Yepper. Frankenstein is on the move. Finally getting
some personal time and came up with:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2006/1208-csi_xray_fingerprints.htm
Check it out. Key here is to lite up the old print
and excite its atoms which in turn resonate at their
elemental frequencies and, you have a nice
clean image of 'the crap the guy had on his hands
etc' and even the chemistry of the guy. Dont even have to have a print, just a smudge.
If the guy was eating chocolate fudge, or whatever,
the residue is going to be in the prints. Old dried up prints can be treated in a similar way and still lite
up even though years old.
Prints contain enzymes, proteins.... if a guy happened to have a certain disease well thats a dead give-away from the chemistry of the prints.
If he was on medication, the same thing...
Recall Cooper's brown paper bag. What was in it?
Maybe a modern MXRF test of the old prints would
shed some light.
Wanna see an example? - attached.
Next thing we're going to do is clone Cooper
and ask him a few questions, then send him to Jo
for parachute training. . .
Georger
Did anyone report the hijacker having a particular
odor?
Tina sat very close to Cooper so would have known.
Thanks,
Georger
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