DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 721]

Shutter's complete lunacy...

 

Shutter writes..

"Do I call you a liar now Fly? you and your buddy sling more insults while playing victim more than I can shake a stick at. "clowns, morons, East Berlin" the last one is funny. Robert whines about my forum when he shut the public out completely on a weekly basis and claims my forum is East Berlin lmao..he's the BIGGEST liar around and you share a bed with him..then when someone does something good for all you guys still pull out the hate card. the removal of the video's by Eric had NOTHING to do with Blevins what so ever. just more false allegation spewing out of his mouth. the same goes for members leaving here and turning into Greene or Gypsy..those guys have been around for years. far longer than most currently on this forum. I can make phony claims as well and say it's Blevins doing it or it's Greg? want to talk about Toxic? read 95% of Roberts posts! both of you purposely try to drive people away. then when you get mad both of you jump on the law suit train which derails almost as quick as it started. it's all very tiring and does no good for anyone..."

 

Blevins rant..

Shutter clearly hates Blevins and tries to smear me with it..

I have nothing to do with what Blevins says or does.. I am not Blevins.

Transferring your bad feelings for Blevins to me is juvenile and asinine.. it has nothing to do with me.

 

YOU aka Shutter runs/owns a forum which enables and gives a platform for certain people to LIE and defame me and others, YOU aka Shutter are 100% legally responsible, and YOU aka Shutter control what is said on your forum.

Your argument is essentially, you feel Blevins lies about you so it is OK for you to allow lies and defamation on your forum..

This has nothing to do with Blevins. 

You support a long term campaign of lies and defamation on your forum, you are 100% legally responsible, I am recording all of it. 

I am in a position now that I am forced to clear it up these stupid lies with third parties, it is a legit defamation case.. even if you are ignorant of the law.

All I asked is that you end it.. 

I am not talking about criticism or disagreements, the personal attacks and outright lies have to end. If you don't do it, I will be forced to.

 

You fail to recognize your legal liability and the toxic environment you have created.

The toxic environment is entirely up to you but defamation, lies, stealing my content, using it out of context, personal smears and attacks against me won't be tolerated. 

It is now costing me time and potentially opportunities...

 

Is it really too much to ask that you stop the perpetual lies, smears and distortions about me..

 

Your forum environment is toxic,, everyone knows it..  forum members don't feel free to express themselves without getting attacked or smeared. They rarely post or hold back for fear of getting attacked. A few people there have been the problem, the majority are fine.

It can easily be addressed and improve your forum dramatically but you are in denial.

I was attacked, ridiculed, told to shut up for posting FACTS... I was even physically threatened.. 3 members even conspired to get me removed because I didn't bow to them. I think due to content theft I have more posts on your site now after I left than 95% of your members. I wasn't the only one, almost everybody has been smeared to some degree. Eric even left but returned for PR..

 

Good riddance, I say. A toxic and disrespectful environment. You think that is normal? It isn't. It is a personal therapy for crazies..

 

You are allowing the few to destroy the value of your forum for everybody.. the respect I had for you aka Shutter has completely evaporated.

If you got over your denial and projection, your forum could be great. I tried to warn you but your denial just turned to anger and you turned it on me.. you just can't handle the truth.

Edited May 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 721]

1 hour ago, Bookman Old Style said:

Thanks for your explanation, Flyjack.  Since I'm so new to this, I don't know how widespread the idea is in Cooperland that the phrase "negotiable American currency," or just the qualifier "American" implies a non-American speaker.  I do think it could imply a number of other things, if Cooper did say it.  I'd put "trying to sound sophisticated" near the top of the list.  After all, Cooper said a number of wacky things. One I haven't seen discussed is his warning that radio transmissions might set off his supposedly battery-powered dynamite bomb.  I'm not an electrical engineer, but if Cooper was serious, he may have watched too many spy thrillers.

Also near the top of my list as a reason for saying the phrase is his physical appearance.  In a recent post, you enumerated the many, many witness statements describing him as "swarthy, olive complexion, possibly Mexican."  Maybe he was used to people being confused about his ethnicity and/or nationality, and was trying to avoid getting a bag full of pesos, even if he had not yet declared that he wanted to the plane to fly to Mexico.

 I would put "foreign influence" near the bottom of the list. I've been to Canada.  Before leaving, I might go to my bank and ask for "Canadian currency."  At the border, I might declare that I'm bringing in "Canadian currency." But at a cafe, I wouldn't ask for my change to be in "Canadian currency."  Come to think of it, though, did Northwest fly in and out of Canada a lot in 1971?  If so, was the onboard petty cash (for in-flight drinks, etc) available in both US and Canadian currency?  Maybe Cooper had flown practice dry runs on Northwest, and gotten Canadian money as change for a bourbon?  Along the same lines, since the ransom stash is said to have been pre-prepared and photographed, did the airlines serving Canada keep a similar stash in Canadian dollars?  Or did all skyjackers prefer American dollars?  

My frustration isn't directed at you or new people, it is directed at the misinformation and toxic environment at Shutter's site..

This case is extremely complex with overwhelming information that is both incomplete and conflicting, it is really tough to navigate..

If you have ideas they should be vetted properly, nobody looked at your examples or straightened out the argument. In the end, YOU can draw your own conclusion but without the facts and information you can't.. They failed you because they have stale case knowledge and hardened opinions. They want you to think like them, we'll they haven't accomplished anything.

Don't let anybody shape your thinking in this case..

 

The Cooper case or "Vortex" is full of these things,, x indicates or suggest y..  after 50 years we still have few concrete facts.. we don't have Cooper speaking to check his actual words.

I figured out from the FBI files that Cooper didn't initially ask for airstairs down on takeoff but lowered inflight.. Everyone got that wrong and most still won't admit it.

 

The pilots and Tina used American/US....  it is rare to use in that context. It suggests a foreign/influence exposure, it doesn't prove it. WE don't have Cooper's exact words, we can only go on what we have been given..

Either Cooper said it or both the pilots and Tina independently added it.

Cooper made the demand and rec'd the money before he mentioned Mexico..  the arg that it was added because Cooper also mentioned Mexico is bogus.

 

How many of you would ask for "American/US" currency at the bank making a cash withdrawal?

Would a local bank robber demand American/US currency??

 

and My suspect Hahneman was an electronics engineer... A swarthy, olive, Latin American who hijacked a 727 with a gun and a briefcase bomb, wearing a dark suit, overcoat, white shirt and narrow black tie, brown shoes and dark sunglasses, dark eyes, short dark wavy marceled/wavy hair, turkey neck, 49 yrs old, military flight crew experience and no accent, plus much more. Don't mention him over at Shutter's, they (the loud ones) don't respond to facts..

Edited May 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 721]

Yes, Georger I do have an agenda,, to pursue the truth.

Your agenda is to use the Cooper case as your personal therapy...

 

You lied again by misrepresenting the facts, I have acknowledged the bank employee and it has been discussed over and over.. you just fail at logic and intellectual honesty.

The bank employee said he randomized and rubber banded the bundles.

Larry Carr stated that each the three TBAR "bundles" were random counts..

WRONG, they weren't,, the groups of packets were randomized aka "bundles" NOT PACKETS.

 

So, Larry Carr and Georger got this wrong for over a decade now and Georger still won't admit his error.

 

When I was on Shutter's site I questioned this because it didn't make any sense, how did the money go to Cooper in packets of 100 bills rubber banded into bundles, then end up randomized?? They didn't, the term "bundle" was misunderstood.

Georger's/Carr's argument.. A bank employee took 100 packets of 100 bills each and randomized them with rubber bands but magically they actually ended up on TBAR back in 100's.. (per packet).. Carr claimed each packet was randomized.. WRONG

but I was told to shut up and stop posting.. nobody could see the problem but me. Georger's nonsense was just accepted..

The answer was Carr and Georger were wrong, the groups of packets were randomized and rubber banded.. not each packet, they were not opened.

Now, Georger can't admit he got it wrong so he lies by mis-stating and reframing my position, ignoring the evidence I posted over and over.. and using personal attacks to discredit and distract.

If that isn't toxic, what is it?

Georger's utter nonsense aside.

The REAL take away is the assertion that the money only arrived on TBAR as 3 separate "packets" is bogus. It could have just as likely arrived as one rubber banded bundle of multiple packets. That changes the means by which it could have arrived.

Everyone was trying to figure out how 3 packets could land together on TBAR but separate...  this is false. The money went to Cooper in packets rubber banded into random bundles, it is more likely the money landed that way as one bundle which opens up the means by which it could have arrived.

Edited May 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[Bookman Old Style 1]

(responding to Flyjack)

I'm determined to stay out of the personal conflicts between folks on both boards.

I think we can find common ground in saying that the phrase "negotiable American currency" is notable, and may be significant.  We can disagree on how it's significant.

By the way, I'm not ruling out Cooper being non-American.  I hadn't heard of Hahnman- I'll check him out.  One more related thing that interests me is whether the crew or Northwest seriously thought that Cooper wanted to go to Cuba, before he gave his instructions about Mexico.  Tina Mucklow joked with him about it (Cuban rum and cigars), and as the New York Times put it in their Cooper 20th anniversary article, "Back in 1971, every skyjacker was going to Cuba."

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Bookman Old Style

[FLYJACK 721]

20 minutes ago, Bookman Old Style said:

(responding to Flyjack)

I'm determined to stay out of the personal conflicts between folks on both boards.

I think we can find common ground in saying that the phrase "negotiable American currency" is notable, and may be significant.  We can disagree on how it's significant.

By the way, I'm not ruling out Cooper being non-American.  I hadn't heard of Hahnman- I'll check him out.  One more related thing that interests me is whether the crew or Northwest seriously thought that Cooper wanted to go to Cuba, before he gave his instructions about Mexico.  Tina Mucklow joked with him about it (Cuban rum and cigars), and as the New York Times put it in their Cooper 20th anniversary article, "Back in 1971, every skyjacker was going to Cuba."

 

 

This stuff has all been discussed before.. with similar results..

but it doesn't indicate Cooper wasn't American or not born in the US, that is too strong, just somebody who had recent exposure to a foreign currency environment.. it isn't a fact, it is an indication.

Remember, Tina also said Cooper told her "circulated US currency"...

My point is there are some good people over there on shutter's forum, but a few who dominate have hardened positions that can't be challenged, not even with facts, new people accept it and defer to their "experience", they only have opinions, mostly wrong. People need to figure it out for themselves by working through accurate information in context.

If you let anyone know you are looking into a suspect you will branded as a heretic, biased and to not be believed.

Edited May 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 721]

Georger, I never said it wasn't a good faith effort talking to the bank employee..

You guys misunderstood it, but instead of admitting it you, Shutter and others attacked/mocked me for pointing out your error.. 

You just can't admit you were wrong.. so you lied, you lied about what Tina said, you made up evidence to cover it and you've lied about me for years to discredit me.. 

Why, to protect your fragile ego.

You have been wrong often and have never admitted it. 

 

Your ego is more important than the truth.

[FLYJACK 721]

"Yes exactly - it fits with how the bank employee said he packaged the bills in small random sized groups, no two groups the same amount, and wrapped each group with one or more rubber bands. He is dealing with a line of money on a tray. He is packaging the bills into groups or bundles (I believe he used the word "bundles") each bundle a different amount or number of bills, with one or more rubber bands applied to each bundle. No two bundles the same amount. "

Georger, do you see the logic problem here.. and your error.

the 3 TBAR packets were not random sized.. (as Carr and you believed)

each TBAR packet did not have a different number of bills.. (one was missing a few), they were in 100's.

 

The random sizing and rubber banding could only have been the groups of packets in the bundles. 

That is why I stressed the difference between packets (100 bills) and bundles..

You see you and Carr conflated packets and bundles.

 

If you and Carr are correct and packets were random sized, how did the TBAR money get into 100's, non random sized. Either you and Carr or the bank guy was wrong or the TBAR money wasn't from Cooper. It wasn't random sized. The evidence from many sources indicates the money went to Cooper in packets of 100, rubber banded into random sized bundles.

 

I don't accept your apology.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 721]

Georger's challenge..

Challenge to FKYJACK RE- Frederick William Hahneman familial dna - 

Collect it, send it to the FBI via certified courier if they agree, and ask the FBI to compare it to their partial profile, as they did for Marla's (LD's) family member ... and see what you get. 

All you need it permission. Maybe do it through an attorney, a Federal atty, a Court order .... but try.  Might save everyone a lot of time.

 

Hahneman does have children in the US, he died in 1991 before the Cooper tie DNA thing, strangely just about same time Tina left witness protection aka the Eugene nunnery.. must be just a coincidence.

The FBI isn't interested in suspects or really solving this case, though Hahneman was an FBI Cooper suspect.

I have been working on a plan to go around the FBI...  a long shot for sure. 

Some things are really tough to do from Canada..

Edited May 15, 2020 by FLYJACK

[Coopy 2]

To Flyjack or Anyone that might know,

You are very knowledgeable about the DB Cooper case.  Well I guess you would be, having written a book and such.

I have a Pioneer NB6 Container with what appears to be a Pioneer C-9 canopy inside.  1968 container.  Strings are not cut as what is mandatory by the military before selling for salvage.  The ripcord is missing  I guess someone was looking into it.  The ropes are properly and nicely folded within the container.

I am 100 percent sure it is not Coopers chute but I have notice there is a serial number on the Pioneer NB6 container.

I have read that Coopers Chute is 26 foot.  This C-9 is 28 feet from what I read, so that pretty much eliminates this as Coopers chute.  I have yet to confirm the chute measurement.

My question is does the FBI have the Pioneer NB6 container serial number that Cossey gave Cooper?

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 721]

I have no book or plan to write one.. sounds horrible..

but The FBI does not have the serial number for the chute Cooper used.

they asked Cossey for the serial number, he claimed he sent it to them and they claim they never got it..

 

Interesting point,, What would the FBI do now if somebody brought in a potential chute with Cossey deceased. The FBI has no way to ID it.

 

[Coopy 2]

4 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

I have no book or plan to write one.. sounds horrible..

but The FBI does not have the serial number for the chute Cooper used.

they asked Cossey for the serial number, he claimed he sent it to them and they claim they never got it..

 

Interesting point,, What would the FBI do now if somebody brought in a potential chute with Cossey deceased. The FBI has no way to ID it.

 

In the History Channel "DB Cooper: Case Closed"

They said either the Money, the Parachute or Cooper body would be needed to reopen the case.

Maybe they are withholding info from the public on the parachute so they will know it is the right one if someone came forward.

[FLYJACK 721]

5 minutes ago, Coopy said:

In the History Channel "DB Cooper: Case Closed"

They said either the Money, the Parachute or Cooper body would be needed to reopen the case.

Maybe they are withholding info from the public on the parachute so they will know it is the right one if someone came forward.

Possible, but that info came from the FBI files. 

Logically, they would have used a SN before with the other found chutes, they didn't, they had Cossey look at them or described it to him. SN was never mentioned.

I don't think they have the SN for the chute. FBI files said they didn't but they can be wrong.

If they did get a potential chute, they couldn't confirm it.

[Coopy 2]

19 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Possible, but that info came from the FBI files. 

Logically, they would have used a SN before with the other found chutes, they didn't, they had Cossey look at them or described it to him. SN was never mentioned.

I don't think they have the SN for the chute. FBI files said they didn't but they can be wrong.

If they did get a potential chute, they couldn't confirm it.

Two of the Cooper parachutes that were delivered to him on the plane were Korean era NB9 type chutes from what I read.

I would imagine the NB6 Cooper used was also salvaged military surplus.  Since the year was 1971, I would imagine the NB6 was also a Korean era parachute given the Vietnam war was still raging on and those chutes were in use.

In the below Cossey article there is a claim the parachute was 28 foot.  Which is more inline with the chute that is in my container.  But agent Carr says its a 26 foot chute.

https://komonews.com/archive/death-at-home-of-db-cooper-chute-packer-ruled-a-homicide-11-22-2015

"The parachutes provided to the skyjacker came from an Issaquah skydive center which had recently purchased them from Cossey. The one Cooper apparently used was a military-issue NB6, nylon, 28-foot with a conical canopy."

Edited May 16, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 721]

Cossey's description.. 

[Coopy 2]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Cossey's description.. 

Thanks for the info!

Unlike the "white" parachute described by Cossey,  My chute is white, green, brown and orange.   I'm guessing since this is a Navy issued parachute, mostly fighter pilots flying off aircraft carriers would use these parachutes and if they needed to eject would want the various colors so they can be seen more readily in the ocean by a search party.

One other thing.

I notice that People keep saying "DB6" vs "Pioneer".  Could it be that all three packs being talked about were "Pioneer".

This DB6 I have is a Pioneer.  I believe the DB9's supplied to Cooper were also Pioneer.

Cossey does not give the military contract manufacturer name above of the DB6 container Cooper used.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 721]

Cooper shoes weren't loafers, as claimed, they were laceless ankle boots..

There was a store break in the night of NORJAK in the LZ, survival rations and ciggs were taken, the shoes were a military type corrugated sole.. A commando sole was an option for many ankle boots.

 

 

[Coopy 2]

9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Cooper shoes weren't loafers, as claimed, they were laceless ankle boots..

There was a store break in the night of NORJAK in the LZ, survival rations and ciggs were taken, the shoes were a military type corrugated sole.. A commando sole was an option for many ankle boots.

 

 

It seems Cooper had loafers on the plane as witnesses testified.  Maybe he had boots in the brown bag he brung on board. He jumped at 8 p.m. and the store break in was at 11:30 pm (possibly by Cooper) after he landed.

Lots of unexplained stuff and LE Blunders....no wonder...FBI...."DB Cooper: Case Closed".

[FLYJACK 721]

My GOD,,  Georger is a F******* M******

NOBODY STOLE BOOTS FROM THE STORE.

THERE WERE NO BOOTS STOLEN FROM THE STORE.... G MADE THAT UP BECAUSE HE MISUNDERSTOOD THE REPORT.

He can't get anything straight.

Cooper may have been wearing the same boots the whole time...  laceless ankle boots with corrugated "Commando" soles..  they can resemble loafers in appearance with the pant material partially covering.

They were also describes as "ankle" high, that isn't a loafer. Laceless can appear like a loafer.. they were also described as street shoes.

Something like this,, laceless, ankle high, appears like a street shoe or loafer (pant leg covering) and has a commando sole.

"If FJ is right and Coop stole boots at the Heisson store .... see his photos - then Cooper was set for traveling. The key is did they apprehend somebody for the breakin ... did they have a suspect? You should check that out Bruce. " Georger

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by FLYJACK

[Coopy 2]

13 hours ago, Coopy said:

To Flyjack or Anyone that might know,

You are very knowledgeable about the DB Cooper case.  Well I guess you would be, having written a book and such.

I have a Pioneer NB6 Container with what appears to be a Pioneer C-9 canopy inside.  1968 container.  Strings are not cut as what is mandatory by the military before selling for salvage.  The ripcord is missing  I guess someone was looking into it.  The ropes are properly and nicely folded within the container.

I am 100 percent sure it is not Coopers chute but I have notice there is a serial number on the Pioneer NB6 container.

I have read that Coopers Chute is 26 foot.  This C-9 is 28 feet from what I read, so that pretty much eliminates this as Coopers chute.  I have yet to confirm the chute measurement.

My question is does the FBI have the Pioneer NB6 container serial number that Cossey gave Cooper?

 

 

I thought I add pictures showing the container and the chute plus pictures of identification numbers.

The Chute and the Container have the same Serial Number.  The container had a manufacturer date of June 1968 while the Chute canopy has a manufacturer date of Dec. 1968.  I also included a picture of the round white top of the spring loaded pilot chute used to open the main chute.  Pictures.....

1)  NB6 Container and chute removed

2)  NB6 Serial Number/ID...below that...hard to read....it reads Pioneer

3)  Chute/Canopy Identification

4)  Spring loaded Pilot chute Identification

[FLYJACK 721]

The Heisson store is right next to rail tracks.. 

 

 

Heisson store is about 4 miles from the flightpath..  

 

[FLYJACK 721]

If the TBAR money rounding wear came from tumbling along a river bottom, then it was the Willamette not the Columbia.. the Columbia has a sandy bottom, the Willamette gravel. Of course the 3 money packets would have to be rubber banded in a single bundle.

This image is interesting, no it isn't a rubber band.. it is the backside of the bill, the top portion of the bill is bent or folded back, the line is the WH pillar.

 

[Coopy 2]

27 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

If the TBAR money rounding wear came from tumbling along a river bottom, then it was the Willamette not the Columbia.. the Columbia has a sandy bottom, the Willamette gravel. Of course the 3 money packets would have to be rubber banded in a single bundle.

This image is interesting, no it isn't a rubber band.. it is the backside of the bill, the top portion of the bill is bent or folded back, the line is the WH pillar.

 

Yea, I looked at the bill pictures years ago and notice the flipped bill in the stack.  If I remember correctly, Tom Kaye said that the bills serial number stacking sequence had been recorded but lost.  If you had the bundle sequence you could see if maybe the bills had been rearranged.

Oh well, another bundled (bungled) clue.

[FLYJACK 721]

I have always been neutral on the bomb being real or not,, no idea..

but this passage from the FBI is interesting..

 

Cooper warned about the radio transmissions possibly setting off the bomb but didn't think they would..

He never demanded reduced radio transmissions,, So why make the statement.

If the bomb was fake it might give it more legitimacy.. but he didn't really need it.

If the bomb was real he may be expressing a legitimate concern.. if the bomb goes off it wasn't my fault.

I am leaning toward the latter.. just slightly,, maybe the bomb was real.

 

[Bookman Old Style 1]

Interesting post, Robert.  Thank you.  I've heard mention of the Amboy chute, but haven't read up on it yet.  Regarding the shoe(s): in my original post on the other forum, I asked if any witnesses actually called Cooper's shoes "loafers."  Everything I've read so far just says dark, brown or black "shoes," except for Tina Mucklow's 12/1-2 interview in her PA home. She apparently called them "brown ankle length pebble grain shoes, not type shoes (loafers)." The wording is odd, but that says low-cut boots, or high-top leather street shoes to me, as Flyjack mentioned above.  Which undercuts a lot of the giggling and speculating about Cooper being under-prepared or dumb due to his wearing "loafers."

[Coopy 2]

1 hour ago, Bookman Old Style said:

She apparently called them "brown ankle length pebble grain shoes, not type shoes (loafers)." The wording is odd, but that says low-cut boots, or high-top leather street shoes to me, as Flyjack mentioned above.

From the picture above with fancy design on front of boot? and with pants legs coming down over top they would appear as dress shoes to me.