DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 720]

FBI interviewed a jump expert,,,

Jumps was very survivable, in woods or water.

Jump simple for an experienced jumper.

Could have drifted up 5 miles.

Footwear inconsequential.

 

 

[CooperNWO305 152]

Good info Flyjack. There is also info in the latest documents about comparing fingerprints to suspects. 
 

One note in the middle of a page says “This guy is a nut” referring to someone who contacted the FBI. That gave me a laugh. 
 

These files are from the 1980s. I wonder if any of the agents on there are still alive. 

[FLYJACK 720]

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Good info Flyjack. There is also info in the latest documents about comparing fingerprints to suspects. 
 

One note in the middle of a page says “This guy is a nut” referring to someone who contacted the FBI. That gave me a laugh. 
 

These files are from the 1980s. I wonder if any of the agents on there are still alive. 

Can't beat the Cooper detector...

alka-seltzer bottles, strings, nylon stockings and pieces of metal..

 

.

[Coopy 2]

6 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

FBI interviewed a jump expert,,,

Jumps was very survivable, in woods or water.

Jump simple for an experienced jumper.

Could have drifted up 5 miles.

Footwear inconsequential.

It was 46 degrees on the ground in Portland, Oregon at 8pm on November 24, 1971.  Wind blowing from the SouthEast at 5 MPH.  Zero precipitation.  Portland is about 35 miles south of the Merwin damn.

Cooper specified the plane to fly no higher than 10,000 feet and at 115 MPH before he jumped.

It seems to me that if Cooper could have survived the freezing weather at 10K feet and got the chute to open and survived the snap back of the chute opening in that environment he would have a good chance of survival on the ground.  The low temp going into November 25th was 43 degrees with a high of 47 degrees on November 25th.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/or/portland/KPDX/date/1971-11-24

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Coopy

[Robert99 50]

33 minutes ago, Coopy said:

It was 46 degrees on the ground in Portland, Oregon at 8pm on November 24, 1971.  Wind blowing from the SouthEast at 5 MPH.  Zero precipitation.  Portland is about 35 miles south of the Merwin damn.

Cooper specified the plane to fly no higher than 10,000 feet and at 115 MPH before he jumped.

It seems to me that if Cooper could have survived the freezing weather at 10K feet and got the chute to open and survived the snap back of the chute opening in that environment he would have a good chance of survival on the ground.  The low temp going into November 25th was 43 degrees with a high of 47 degrees on November 25th.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/or/portland/KPDX/date/1971-11-24

 

 

 

Cooper didn't specify any speed for the airliner to fly.  In reality, it was doing about 225 MPH true airspeed when he jumped.

[SimpleCostillaOne 0]

Greetings. I'm new here and this topic has become somewhat of a personal panacea to my pandemic isolation. I have a few questions for anyone who might like to answer:

1. Do you think the letters from DB Cooper are really from DB Cooper? Was there 6 of them? Does anyone have a link where I could observe the letters myself?

2. What do you think of the 'Ha Ha Ha' book? was this written by DB Cooper? anyone have a copy they'd like to lend/sell?

I guess I'm developing an idea that Cooper was a smart-aleck type who has been goading the FBI for beating them. This is how I choose to interpret the Tena Bar money as well - That Cooper planted the money several years later to goad the investigators. And if you were the type of person who could pull off this type of event and enjoyed watching the puzzlement and confusion through news reports, then 3 packets of 20's (er, $5800) wouild be well worth the price. And how could you ask for a better outcome than to have provided that thrill of discovery to a 10yo (and eventually a payday).

[Coopy 2]

5 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Cooper didn't specify any speed for the airliner to fly.  In reality, it was doing about 225 MPH true airspeed when he jumped.

"During refueling, Cooper outlined his flight plan to the cockpit crew: a southeast course toward Mexico City at the minimum airspeed possible without stalling the aircraft – approximately 100 knots (185 km/h; 115 mph) – at a maximum 10,000-foot (3,000 m) altitude."

The wiki reads the plane could have flow at 115 mph without stalling.  Maybe ice on the plane prevented that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

[FLYJACK 720]

4 hours ago, SimpleCostillaOne said:

Greetings. I'm new here and this topic has become somewhat of a personal panacea to my pandemic isolation. I have a few questions for anyone who might like to answer:

1. Do you think the letters from DB Cooper are really from DB Cooper? Was there 6 of them? Does anyone have a link where I could observe the letters myself?

2. What do you think of the 'Ha Ha Ha' book? was this written by DB Cooper? anyone have a copy they'd like to lend/sell?

I guess I'm developing an idea that Cooper was a smart-aleck type who has been goading the FBI for beating them. This is how I choose to interpret the Tena Bar money as well - That Cooper planted the money several years later to goad the investigators. And if you were the type of person who could pull off this type of event and enjoyed watching the puzzlement and confusion through news reports, then 3 packets of 20's (er, $5800) wouild be well worth the price. And how could you ask for a better outcome than to have provided that thrill of discovery to a 10yo (and eventually a payday).

There were many more than 6 letters, I am studying some of them right now...  maybe one or more can be linked to Cooper, but not yet.

Ha, Ha, Ha, haven't read it, others have.

The plant theory just doesn't make sense...  the TBAR money was either unintentionally lost or intentionally discarded. 

[Coopy 2]

Here are some 3d Models of Cooper based on sketch.  He seems to have a very distinctive face and that is maybe why Tina seems to have a very good remembrance of what he looked like.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 720]

7 minutes ago, Coopy said:

Here are some 3d Models of Cooper based on sketch

Interesting, any with glasses..

[Coopy 2]

22 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Interesting, any with glasses..

Here you go...

[Robert99 50]

2 hours ago, Coopy said:

"During refueling, Cooper outlined his flight plan to the cockpit crew: a southeast course toward Mexico City at the minimum airspeed possible without stalling the aircraft – approximately 100 knots (185 km/h; 115 mph) – at a maximum 10,000-foot (3,000 m) altitude."

The wiki reads the plane could have flow at 115 mph without stalling.  Maybe ice on the plane prevented that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

Wiki is flat out wrong.  Cooper did not, repeat not, specify any speed to be flown.  Cooper did not "outline his flight plan to the cockpit crew" since he didn't have a flight plan.  He did tell one of the flight attendants that he wanted to go to Mexico but didn't specify any route to getting there.  The NWA flight crew worked up a possible route where they would need two fuel stops.  They suggested Reno to Cooper as the first stop and he agreed.  The location for a second fuel stop was never decided on.

Fly at stall speed all the way from Seattle to Mexico?  Wiki has got to be kidding.  NWA performance engineers told the flight crew to fly at 170 Knots Indicated Air Speed to achieve best range.  And it wasn't until the airliner was in the Portland area that the flight crew were informed that they should be able to make it to Reno.

[CooperNWO305 152]

11 hours ago, Coopy said:

Here are some 3d Models of Cooper based on sketch.  He seems to have a very distinctive face and that is maybe why Tina seems to have a very good remembrance of what he looked like.

This is a very interesting approach that I have not seen before. It goes to show that having many ideas and perspectives can be a good thing. The reality is that most of the crew interaction would have been seeing Cooper from the side or above, yet the only drawings we have are from the front. A side view might have been helpful. Here is McCoy for reference showing how different a side and front view are. Good out of the box thinking. 
 

[Coopy 2]

21 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

It goes to show that having many ideas and perspectives can be a good thing.

If I remember correctly.  Tina described Cooper as having olive skin and maybe of hispanic origins.  I can see that in the angled view especially the views with a prominent nose.

I can also see him as having Mediterranean ancestry or even of darker skin German origin.  He could have a western European look also and skin color.

If Cooper was from overseas and went back after the jump, the case would have been much harder to solve.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Coopy

[Coopy 2]

On 5/29/2020 at 10:02 AM, CooperNWO305 said:

A side view might have been helpful. Here is McCoy for reference showing how different a side and front view are. Good out of the box thinking. 

A coincidental thought about McCoy...

McCoy was born in Kinston North Carolina (tobacco country) and grew up in nearby Cove City NC, both in eastern NC, about 1.5 hour drive to Raleigh, NC the Capitol.

Cooper Smoked cheap Raleigh Cigarettes on the plane.  Raleigh, NC and Raleigh Cigarettes named after Sir Walter Raleigh.

RJ Reynolds, the maker of Raleigh Cigarettes is based in Winston Salem, NC.

Sir Walter Raleigh tried to establish the first colony in North Carolina which unfortunately became known as the Lost Colony.

The FBI had potentially the best Cooper evidence left on the plane that became known as the lost Raleigh cigarette butts. FWIW

Butts lost in Las Vegas field Office article, 2017....quote below..

"the saliva buried within the fibers of the eight Raleigh filter-tipped king-size cigarette butts is the best chance we, and the FBI, have to determine who Cooper was. Memo to the bureau: we need to find those butts."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/db-cooper-fbi-lost-key-evidence-that-could-identify-thief

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Coopy

[ParrotheadVol 70]

18 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

What the FBI needs to do is release some files showing where some of the witnesses were shown pictures of McCoy, or yes, Hahneman perhaps, and what these witnesses said about them, yay or nay. You'd think they would do this. They MUST have, you would think. 

EDIT: Someone at the Q and A website 'Quora' asked HOW COME they didn't catch Cooper?

This was my best answer, or at least what I could fit into a single article for Quora.

One of the McCoy files that is posted at The DB Cooper Forum, says that the 3 stewardesses said that McCoy's picture was "not identical" to Cooper. There were 2 other witnesses that indicated a "strong resemblance" and would not rule him out. I think this is from File #2.

As far as why Cooper wasn't caught, he lost the money. It's that simple. Whoever he was, he didn't have that sudden influx of money that most people think Cooper must have had. So no one noticed anything different about him. No red flags. That's my best guess as to why he was never caught.

[FLYJACK 720]

1 hour ago, Coopy said:

A coincidental thought about McCoy...

McCoy was born in Kinston North Carolina (tobacco country) and grew up in nearby Cove City NC, both in eastern NC, about 1.5 hour drive to Raleigh, NC the Capitol.

Cooper Smoked cheap Raleigh Cigarettes on the plane.  Raleigh, NC and Raleigh Cigarettes named after Sir Walter Raleigh.

RJ Reynolds, the maker of Raleigh Cigarettes is based in Winston Salem, NC.

Sir Walter Raleigh tried to establish the first colony in North Carolina which unfortunately became known as the Lost Colony.

The FBI had potentially the best Cooper evidence left on the plane that became known as the lost Raleigh cigarette butts. FWIW

Butts lost in Las Vegas field Office article, 2017....

https://www.thedailybeast.com/db-cooper-fbi-lost-key-evidence-that-could-identify-thief

 

 

Not exactly..

Brown and Williamson made Raleigh's, headquartered in Louisville KY.. was sold to B. A. T. in the 20's.

In 2004 R J Reynolds and Brown and Williamson merged. Prior they were rivals.

 

For his hijacking, Hahneman had a pack of Viceroy's but he demanded 2000 Benson and Hedges... 

Viceroy and Raleigh are both filtered, 85mm, made by B & W, the difference was the marketing.. Raleigh had the coupon program. In the 60's, Viceroy was primarily smoked by women until a new marketing program aimed to redefine them using auto racing sponsorships... 

"In the 1970s, Brown & Williamson realised that the cigarette brand was mainly smoked by women and couples because the Viceroy brand was "less masculine than its key competition" and the brand had a "feminine orientation" according to internal documents. From the early 1970s onwards, B&W started to sponsor the brand via the Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing team in autosport championships such as the United States Auto Club and Formula 1 to give the brand a more "masculine" additude, similar to Marlboro"

 

What is interesting is 7 cigarette butts found indicated they were Raleigh's, one was not Id'd but assumed to be a Raleigh. Tina smoked at least one cigarette. There were no prints found on them.

 

McCoy was not Cooper. Calame and Rhodes wrote a book trying to make the case that McCoy was Cooper.. it is clear McCoy was not. So, why would a couple of smart guys with inside info make the claim? IMO, they knew he wasn't Cooper but wanted to convince everybody Cooper (McCoy) had died. 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by FLYJACK

[ParrotheadVol 70]

1 hour ago, Coopy said:

A coincidental thought about McCoy...

McCoy was born in Kinston North Carolina (tobacco country) and grew up in nearby Cove City NC, both in eastern NC, about 1.5 hour drive to Raleigh, NC the Capitol.

Cooper Smoked cheap Raleigh Cigarettes on the plane.  Raleigh, NC and Raleigh Cigarettes named after Sir Walter Raleigh.

RJ Reynolds, the maker of Raleigh Cigarettes is based in Winston Salem, NC.

Sir Walter Raleigh tried to establish the first colony in North Carolina which unfortunately became known as the Lost Colony.

The FBI had potentially the best Cooper evidence left on the plane that became known as the lost Raleigh cigarette butts. FWIW

Butts lost in Las Vegas field Office article, 2017....quote below..

"the saliva buried within the fibers of the eight Raleigh filter-tipped king-size cigarette butts is the best chance we, and the FBI, have to determine who Cooper was. Memo to the bureau: we need to find those butts."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/db-cooper-fbi-lost-key-evidence-that-could-identify-thief

 

 

I think someone, maybe Flyjack, found a memo where someone was told to dispose of the cigarette butts. Maybe someone can clarify that?

I've always wondered if the cigarette butts were a misdirection of sorts. This is a little bit of a rabbit hole I guess, and I try to stay away from rabbit holes, but Cooper didn't leave much behind in the way of evidence. But he sure didn't mind revealing his brand of smokes. Maybe that wasn't even his brand. I certainly would not lean more favorably toward a suspect that smoked Raliegh cigarettes than I would someone that smoked a different brand. But that's just me....

 

[FLYJACK 720]

"All of the above enclosures may be destroyed at the Bureau upon completion of the examination."

 

 

 

Q1 = cigarette butts

 

Q1 disposition..

Edited May 30, 2020 by FLYJACK

[Coopy 2]

This could be the type of Raleigh Cigarette pack the cigarettes came from.....correct me if wrong....

Note: from Jan 1, 1966 to Oct. 31 1970 the warning was "CAUTION: CIGARETTE SMOKING MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH.

https://www.rjrt.com/tobacco-use-health/public-health-information/

Then from Nov. 1 1970 to 1985 rotating warnings were used.  "Cigarette smoke contains carbon monoxide" was one of them as found on the below pack.

http://cigarettecollector.net/2016/05/25/raleigh-filter-kings-with-coupon-vintage-american-cigarette-pack/

About this pack:

• • Brand Name: Raleigh
  • Length: 85mm
  • Size: 20
  • Type: soft pack
  • Filter/Menthol/Regular: filter
  • Notice: Surgeon General’s Warning: Cigarette smoke contains carbon monoxide.
  • Full/Partial/Empty: full
  • Manufacturer: Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corporation, Louisville, KY
  • Tax stamp(s): Maryland
  • This pack is for collecting, not smoking. But you still have to be 18 years old to purchase.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Coopy

[FLYJACK 720]

10 minutes ago, Coopy said:

This could be the type of Raleigh Cigarette pack the cigarettes came from.....correct me if wrong....

http://cigarettecollector.net/2016/05/25/raleigh-filter-kings-with-coupon-vintage-american-cigarette-pack/

About this pack:

• • Brand Name: Raleigh
  • Length: 85mm
  • Size: 20
  • Type: soft pack
  • Filter/Menthol/Regular: filter
  • Notice: Surgeon General’s Warning: Cigarette smoke contains carbon monoxide.
  • Full/Partial/Empty: full
  • Manufacturer: Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corporation, Louisville, KY
  • Tax stamp(s): Maryland
  • This pack is for collecting, not smoking. But you still have to be 18 years old to purchase.

Something like that,, that pack is probably newer as it has a barcode.

[Coopy 2]

44 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Something like that,, that pack is probably newer as it has a barcode.

Good eye.  I did not notice that.  From Google....

"On June 26, 1974, the first product with a bar code was scanned at a check-out counter. It was a 10-pack of Wrigley's Juicy Fruit chewing gum."

Below is a 1971 Raleigh Mag Ad and most likely the pack Cooper had I would think....Even though the soft pack on left does not read "Kings" the Ad infers it...

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Coopy

[CooperNWO305 152]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:47 PM, SimpleCostillaOne said:

Greetings. I'm new here and this topic has become somewhat of a personal panacea to my pandemic isolation. I have a few questions for anyone who might like to answer:

1. Do you think the letters from DB Cooper are really from DB Cooper? Was there 6 of them? Does anyone have a link where I could observe the letters myself?

2. What do you think of the 'Ha Ha Ha' book? was this written by DB Cooper? anyone have a copy they'd like to lend/sell?

I guess I'm developing an idea that Cooper was a smart-aleck type who has been goading the FBI for beating them. This is how I choose to interpret the Tena Bar money as well - That Cooper planted the money several years later to goad the investigators. And if you were the type of person who could pull off this type of event and enjoyed watching the puzzlement and confusion through news reports, then 3 packets of 20's (er, $5800) wouild be well worth the price. And how could you ask for a better outcome than to have provided that thrill of discovery to a 10yo (and eventually a payday).

Letters fake. Ha ha ha fake. Money plant theory highly unlikely. Just because we don’t know how the money got there does not mean it was planted. Good to see you have some ideas. Keep the thoughts coming. 

[Coopy 2]

4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

He is also the classic description of a 'Cooper phony,' since he makes pithy protests about what is posted on his own website, but tacitly goes along with it by doing nothing about it. His posters are spoiled children, and he is their ineffective mother.

Why the Cooper Forum was closed a few years ago.

4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

and none of you worthless shits reading this now even care to band together to help him.

Why the  Cooper Forum was closed a few years ago.

4 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You guys are pathetic with a capital 'P' there is no doubt.

Why the Cooper Forum was closed a few years ago.

[CooperNWO305 152]

Robert: You're purposely trying to stir the pot.  The case has lulls.  There is a lot going on in the country right now, and people are focused on many things.  Just a couple of weeks ago there was a YouTube video on DB Cooper that has close to 3 million views.  The hits on Wikipedia for DB Cooper are higher than even before COVID.  There will be new topics or discussion on current topics.  This is not the world vs The Cooper Forum or vs Bruce Smith's Mountain News.