DB Cooper

[FLYJACK 741]

14 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

and the Vortex never lets you leave..

This sounds like the Cinebar part,,  identified and rejected by the FBI.

But it is dated 1973, the other doc is dated 1975,

Either the FBI filed it twice, the Boeing employee submitted it twice (a hoax?) or two parts were found.. (neither from NORJAK) 

 

 

 

Looks like it the same part... metal step assembly part intact, NOT NORJAK

 

[FLYJACK 741]

The ventral stairs fully opened via gravity (weight)...  not hydraulics.

The wind kept them from fully opening.

I found the doc..

 

[FLYJACK 741]

Cooper opened the stairs at 8 PM,,, that was after the plane passed Cinebar.

Shutter corrected me, first light noted on at 7:42

 

The 727 has an airstairs unlocked light, we don't know what the door opening was.

IMPORTANT- 
A RED LIGHT INDICATES AIRSTAIRS OPEN BUT NOT LOCKED UP OR DOWN. 
AN AMBER LIGHT INDICATES AIRSTAIR LEVER IN RAISING POSITION. 
A GREEN LIGHT INDICATED DOWN AND LOCKED

 

 

 

Here are docs about the damage to the plane. They had the damage reports.

"Minor damage to panels" The side skirts

NOTE, There was no damage reported for the activation of the "emergency release"..  it wasn't pulled.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by FLYJACK

[dudeman17 342]

On 10/21/2020 at 1:40 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

I told DZ this or that. True enough.

Not true 'enough'. TRUE.  It's the whole point.

 

On 10/21/2020 at 1:40 AM, RobertMBlevins said:

I am a two-way street kind of guy. 

Well, in one direction you were given the contact because you said you'd relay the information. So where's the other direction? Are you a man of your word or not?

 

--------------

A bit of detail for you. The harness and container do not separate. They are sewn together as a unit. Plus, he needs the harness to put it over his shoulders like a backpack. If he wanted to make it look a bit less like a parachute, I suppose he could cut the leg straps off with his knife.

[FLYJACK 741]

The airstair light comes on when the lever is moved from the detent position, not when the stairs actually move..

If Cooper moved the lever from its detent but didn't push the button the stairs would not have lowered.. and light would have come on.

This suggest that Cooper got the stairs down about 8PM.

That would reconcile a light on at 7:42 and this document.

I noticed the interior ceiling panel is hanging down in this image.

That might have been a result of the plane search but  ??

 

 

ceiling panel from another 727

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 741]

The FBI questioned an expert and the drift could have been two to three thousand feet to 5 miles.. depending on chute deployment.

Heisson store is 4.5 miles from the flight path between the 8:12 and 8:13 mark.

 

[FLYJACK 741]

Hicks placard close up..

Does this look like it was in the woods for seven years?  no dirt, no stains, edges are crisp..

It looks "fresh"..

Edited October 23, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 741]

The early 727-100's had a button on top of the airstair lever. The unlock light came on when the lever was moved from its detent, not when the stairs actually dropped. Another light came on when the lever was in the down detent.

Tina was in the cockpit for the 7:42 light, she said a red light, it is actually amber but close enough.

The crew indicated around 8:00 Cooper got the stairs down. They refer to a light indicating stairs lowered...

It may be, and this is speculation, that there were two different lights noted.

The first light may have been the movement of the lever out of the detent, but not the lowering of the stairs.. if Cooper did not push the button he may may not have been able to get the lever to the full open detent. That may be where Cooper struggled.

 

We need to know more about the precise real world operation of the stair lever and the lights.

Edited October 23, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 741]

Robert, 

You have said the airstair light flashed..

Where is that info from?

 

 

[FLYJACK 741]

San Francisco Examiner..

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/461838093/

Not there..

 

There are 3 airstair lights in the cockpit and the light comes on when the lever is moved from the "up" detent.. it doesn't make sense for it to go off then on when the stairs rebound..  Could be newspaper vague language or more than one of the lights was noted by the crew.

 

I'll keep looking.

 

[FLYJACK 741]

42 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Stop looking. It's not in the newspaper. 

And we’ve also gotten confirmation on the Flight Engineer’s panel indicating that the stairs had momentarily closed.

 

Ok, I think I got it..  that wasn't the light he is referring to. It is the cabin pressure rate of change gauge. That makes more sense as the stair light is activated by the lever position.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 741]

• Boeing 727 Operating Manual

Aft Airstairs (Ventral)

• H - 1.93 (6 ft 4 in) W - 0.81 m (2 ft 8 in)
• Approximate force required to move door control handle from closed/locked position to open position: 10 kg (22 lbs).
• Door and Control Handle - 100 Series Control Handle has button on top of handle used in conjunction with handle to electrically raise/lower stair assembly.
• Emergency Use (100 series) - inside stairway. Remove emergency access covers; pull sharply on release handle (inward). Action will cause uplocks to be sheared and forcibly extend stairs extensive damage will be caused to system).

..................

Uplocks damaged using emergency system. Norjak has not even been confirmed to have the optional system.

Evidence indicates emergency system not used.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 741]

8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I have a message out to a woman who has flown 727's, and since this information is NOT included in my upcoming book, I will release the contents of her email response, if and when it comes. She has even written a book about her experiences as a pilot. This was the message I sent:

I found out over the years that when you contact semi-famous, or even famous people, you obtain better responses from them if you just get to the point and be quick about it. 

Remember, the 727-100 and 727-200 had different systems and were changed/modified after NORJAK.. They weren't all the same.

This makes it more complicated to sort..

[FLYJACK 741]

There are 14 bills here,, 

Eric missed the partial bills, 

 

[FLYJACK 741]

3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Email response from the 727 lady pilot I messaged regarding whether there is a warning light on the Flight Engineer's panel for opening of the airstairs:

 

It isn't that simple.

There are 3 lights for the aft airstairs..

Red Light - at the aft stair control lever, interior and exterior.

 

The cockpit engineer's panel has only two lights..

Amber Light - aft stairs are not locked up and control handle is not in up position.

Green Light - aft stairs are down and locked

 

That means the light that came on in the cockpit was the Amber one which DOES NOT confirm the aft stairs were open/moved, only that the lever was moved from the up detent position.

 

Light indicated "unlatched" not red, it was amber.

 

Tina noted the red light, it wasn't red but amber. Amber can be mistaken for faded red.

There is no red aft airstair light in the cockpit.

The timing of the light "going on" doesn't make sense..

Crew saw light at 7:42 and Tina saw light come on about 8PM. If they are both accurate,,

THEN.. (about 7:42) Cooper pushed the handle out from the up detent (light goes on) and didn't move it all the way to the down detent (stairs don't move) causing the stairs to not drop at all.. Cooper was struggling with the stairs. He moved the handle back to the up detent and the light goes out. He then tries the handle again and moves it all the way to the down detent, the light comes back on and stairs drop to partially open. (about 8PM) Tina sees the light come back on. 

If this is what happened the stairs did not lower/open (partially) till about 8PM.

Edited October 26, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 741]

I found 727-100 safety cards for Northwest, Piedmont and Keyair..  the airlines that flew the NORJAK plane.

None of them had the optional emergency release - "pull red handle".

 

Either NORJAK never had it or it was removed.

 

[FLYJACK 741]

There is no winds aloft data at the Placard find location/time or anywhere close.

Tom Kaye's data is too far from the Placard location.

FBI data is also very far from the placard location (Portland and Salem) and averaged over an hour (8-9). It was an estimate for Woodland.

 

The wind data used for the drift calculation is a meaningless assumption.

Winds aloft are important, using data from far away locations makes the drift calculation meaningless and amateur.

 

Without accurate wind data at the placard location any drift analysis is worthless and invalid. 

[FLYJACK 741]

Eric Ulis and Robert99 have created an argument for the Western Flight Path based on the placard. 

It is a bunch of layered assumptions presented as a fact to support a narrative.

 

There is no proof the placard was from NORJAK - FBI

The placard could have come from any passing 727 - FBI

The placard does not match the 727-100 internal emergency system.

The placard looks too clean to have been in the woods for 7 years.

The placard tearing looks like it was placed over rivets, none inside.

There is no room for that decal next to the interior bulkhead door.

There would have likely been a remnant of the torn decal still on the plane it came from.

There is no proof that NORJAK even had that decal or the optional emergency system.

The wind drift analysis is garbage, there is no wind data for that location and time or even close.

 

We can't prove it didn't come from NORJAK but the evidence suggests it is extremely unlikely. If it did, the wind drift analysis with irrelevant wind data proves nothing.

[FLYJACK 741]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Oh...now I understand. I wouldn't bother responding to whatever they post over there. I used to, but I have mostly got out of that business.  

It's no big deal, but I kept trying to figure out what you were talking about. All the points you make, with the possible exception of 'doesn't look like its been out in the woods for years' I agree with completely. I used to think it was THE placard as well, but you convinced me. And heck...I was about to spring hundreds of dollars to search the area, arrange with Weyerhauser for the gate key...everything. Lucky I canceled that idea. 

Does this decal look like it was sitting in out in the woods for seven years,, the back had adhesive.

No dirt, no debris, no stains, the edges are crisp. It looks "fresh".

 

[dudeman17 342]

7 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

...you've said the same thing three times now...

 

[FLYJACK 741]

Found a unique pic of the NORJAK crew... captures a completely different mood.

This is the common one.. heads down, somber and serious.

 

Laughing... not so serious.

[BigFlies 0]

Hello everyone! I have been following the case for a few months. I’ve read a lot about how Cooper knew some of the specific details of the Boeing727 and that gave him an advantage. I found this picture of a Boeing727 flight simulator from the late 1960’s inside the Boeing Company. 

[FLYJACK 741]

It was the "Bing Crosby" sketch that was in disagreement,, 

 

 

This doc is dated May 1972, after this sketch "B" was made to be more accurate and show complexion.. Sketch "B" is more accurate.

The "big Crosby" sketch was the second one. The "final artist's sketch" referred to here is the "Bing" sketch as sketch "B" was produced many months later.

 

Cooper was Latin/Mexican...

Edited November 2, 2020 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 741]

Cooper tie had noticeable dust lodged in the knot area..

The tie was manufactured/sold about 1964/65.. the particles suggests it was never cleaned and the dust suggests it was not used recent to NORJAK. It was sitting for some period of time perhaps years.

 

[FLYJACK 741]

12 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

It was the "Bing Crosby" sketch that was in disagreement,, 

 

 

This doc is dated May 1972, after this sketch "B" was made to be more accurate and show complexion.. Sketch "B" is more accurate.

The "big Crosby" sketch was the second one. The "final artist's sketch" referred to here is the "Bing" sketch as sketch "B" was produced many months later.

 

Cooper was Latin/Mexican...

This was the plan for Sketch "B".. to get a sketch "more agreeable to the majority"..

and colour..