DB Cooper

[georger 256]

My personal bias, like Sluggo', is that Cooper had some experience as an air traveler. In his discussions with Tina he references several instances of traveling by air as his observations (in WA and MN) of ground markers. Does Cooper know when a plane is making a turn ? Does any passenger know? In the case of the BTG Vortac/called PDX Vortac in 71, could Cooper have sensed that turn? Has Cooper traveled V23 before and knows the turns?  ..............................  in any event, he may have already jumped before the old PDX Vortac. But there is little question that Cooper was an air traveler based on his own statements. And there is no evidence that documents Cooper had a cheap compass, as per Sluggo's speculations.      

Edited December 18, 2021 by georger

[FLYJACK 742]

If the crew knew when they passed the PDX/Battle Ground Vortac and they claimed Cooper jumped further north that is crucial. They would know if Cooper jumped (bump) before or after the Vortac. This makes the Columbia River landing argument impossible without completely shifting the argument.

and there was a report of Hahneman's compass found discarded where he landed..

Edited December 18, 2021 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 157]

20 hours ago, georger said:

My personal bias, like Sluggo', is that Cooper had some experience as an air traveler. In his discussions with Tina he references several instances of traveling by air as his observations (in WA and MN) of ground markers. Does Cooper know when a plane is making a turn ? Does any passenger know? In the case of the BTG Vortac/called PDX Vortac in 71, could Cooper have sensed that turn? Has Cooper traveled V23 before and knows the turns?  ..............................  in any event, he may have already jumped before the old PDX Vortac. But there is little question that Cooper was an air traveler based on his own statements. And there is no evidence that documents Cooper had a cheap compass, as per Sluggo's speculations.      

Georger. I fly a good amount as a passenger, and since getting involved with Cooper I’ve made it a point to pay a lot of attention to things in the plane, altitude, etc. There have been many occasions where I have felt a turn. It is especially evident when coming into a landing run. I don’t know if he would have known a slight turn just as a regular guy like me, but one of those bigger ones that V23 makes, I’d yes for sure. Now if he was in aviation, I’d bet he knew even the little turns. 

[Andrade1812 51]

Fly,

I remember something in the files about the FBI trying to figure out if McCoy was at a hotel in Vegas, do you know where I could find that?

[FLYJACK 742]

20 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Fly,

I remember something in the files about the FBI trying to figure out if McCoy was at a hotel in Vegas, do you know where I could find that?

McCoy made the call from the Tropicana Vegas, no record found of him registered there.

 

part 27 page 331/332

part 26 p 269

part 25 p 35, 36, 107, 108, 305

part 24 p 459

part 58  page 39

 

 

[Andrade1812 51]

Is there any evidence he was in Vegas in the days before the hijacking?

I remember the FBI thought he was in SLC the day of the hijacking but couldn't prove it.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Andrade1812

[FLYJACK 742]

Ulis is at it again, creating a new narrative building on a foundation of conjecture.

First, he repeats the 100% false claim that Cooper's tie was dated 1962-64,, it was spring 1964 - spring 65. His claim is easily proven false. He is embarrassing himself.

The tie particles.. pure titanium wasn't that rare, it was even used on the 727, electronics, dentistry etc. it could have come from many sources. Sand and salt for de-icing was used all over the US and Canada, even California mountains. Industrial salt was not only used for de-icing. Look up halite.

Since the #2 engine and exhaust was right above the open 727 doorway, some of those metal particles may have even come from the plane itself. An aluminum spiral could have been picked up on the plane or many places. If the tie was dropped on the floor, laid down in the lav or used to wipe prints, it may have picked up particles or not.

I did find SS/Ti parts on the 727 near the lav..

The tie dates to about 1964/65, that means 7 years to accumulate those particles through multiple environments, some may have even been added on the plane or post NORJAK in the FBI storage..

The combination of environments for those particles is virtually infinite.

 

 

[FLYJACK 742]

59 minutes ago, Andrade1812 said:

Is there any evidence he was in Vegas in the days before the hijacking?

I remember the FBI thought he was in SLC the day of the hijacking but couldn't prove it.

He was seen in class the morning of the day before the hijacking, he was home for an early thanksgiving and went to Vegas that evening.  Part 50 p 141

They never stated his location for the 24th.

Edited December 19, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 742]

McCoy wasn't Cooper,,

the ears, the hair, the age, he does not have thin lips and a protruding lower lip.. he is not Latin/Mexican swarthy and dark eyes.

A far better suspect than Kenneth Christiansen for sure but also not Cooper.

 

[Coopericane 44]

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

McCoy wasn't Cooper,,

the ears, the hair, the age, he does not have thin lips and a protruding lower lip.. he is not Latin/Mexican swarthy and dark eyes.

A far better suspect than Kenneth Christiansen for sure but also not Cooper.

 

Wow, that's a good clip, and tbh, it makes the physical discrepancies between McCoy and Cooper even more pronounced than I thought they were before. His complexion is different, his hair color is different, his eye color is different, his height is different, his face is different... it's too much. The witnesses would have *all* had to have had an absurdly bad lapse in memory or be flat-out lying about who was on Flight 305 that day to get it so wrong. I know McCoy wore disguises, but none as complicated as this one would have been (nor do I think he could pull it off without it being noticed). You have to make outrageous leaps and bounds of logic for McCoy to be Cooper, and that's just based on his physical appearance... when you include everything else, McCoy is out and has been for a while.

I'm probably speaking for most on this board though, and repeating what many of you have already said or thought, heh. It's just so frustrating to see when people get stuck on McCoy, especially when there are other elements of the case (not to mention better suspects) that need more attention!

Edited December 19, 2021 by Coopericane

[FLYJACK 742]

7 minutes ago, Coopericane said:

Wow, that's a good clip, and tbh, it makes the physical discrepancies between McCoy and Cooper even more pronounced than I thought they were before. His complexion is different, his hair color is different, his eye color is different, his height is different, his face is different... it's too much. The witnesses would have *all* had to have had an absurdly bad lapse in memory or be flat-out lying about who was on Flight 305 that day to get it so wrong. I know McCoy wore disguises, but none as complicated as this one would have been (nor do I think he could pull it off without it being noticed). You have to make outrageous leaps and bounds of logic for McCoy to be Cooper, and that's just based on his physical appearance... when you include everything else, McCoy is out and has been for a while.

I'm probably speaking for most Cooper sleuths there though, and repeating what many of you have already said or think, heh. It's just frustrating to be stuck on McCoy when there are other (better) suspects and elements of the case that need more attention!

Yup, notice that huge Adam's apple.. no way that is missed, he was not Cooper.

Top tier Cooper sleuths that know the evidence agree..

Cooper newbies and those with lower level knowledge lack the discrimination and fall for it..

Calame and Rhodes must have known he wasn't Cooper when they wrote that book. It is obvious.

[FLYJACK 742]

I am up to about 90 Cooper profile points, I am aiming for 100. (Cooper specific)

and Kenneth Christiansen still fails miserably, he is not Cooper. 

It is really clear KC matches virtually nothing and the argument is speculation and hearsay. Nothing but noise.

He is one of the worst suspects, at least McCoy is interesting.

 

Something else I noticed,, Hal Williams the NWA clerk noticed Cooper was the only one not joking about the rain in Portland.. 

The dominant theory is that Cooper wanted to jump in the area. Is it reasonable to plan a jump at night into the rain into a semi-wooded area. He would get wet, dirty and cold. Then in that condition on the ground he would have to make his escape out of the area. He wasn't dressed for PNW jump at night in the rain and it doesn't seem like something to plan.

There is no evidence that Cooper's plan when he boarded the plane was to jump in the PNW. 

Cooper's initial demand was airstairs lowered inflight, not lowered on takeoff. He changed it after the Reno negotiation. Why change, unless your LZ changed. Cooper also required the refuelling to be at a small airport. That is unnecessary if his initial plan was to jump in the PNW.. and Cooper was not dressed for the weather.

But, how does he expect to escape on the ground wet, cold and dirty. Where is he going to go unnoticed, he would probably need a change of clothes. There is no way he could have an accomplice close on the ground without precisely directing the planes path. It doesn't make sense for this to be his initial plan.

 

I know PNW weather,, you don't go out in a cold rainy November night without being dressed for it.

Edited December 20, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 742]

Info on the Dan Cooper comic..

It was not published in english. It was published in about 16 languages including in Mexico in Spanish for Latin America, since Cooper was described as Latin/Mexican if he was influenced by the comic that would be the source, not the French version. Hahneman does have a relationship to the publisher Herge but IMO the possibility of the comic being the source for the Dan Cooper name is very very remote.

Mexico/Latin America Spanish version vs French.

 

 

Here is the Dan Cooper comic doc from Canada, it was previously hard to access for Americans..

It is very interesting, use the closed caption to translate the french.

I checked and there is no region restriction.

 

[FLYJACK 742]

Cooper carried the case in his left hand with his right hand in the case,,

That indicates he is right handed. Dominant hand holding the bomb/wire.. He also had cigarette stains on his right hand.

if the bomb was fake would he need to keep his hand in the case when he moved to the lav?

[FLYJACK 742]

Something that never made sense..

Cooper said he wanted "no kidding and no funny stuff"

Tina "in an attempt at being humorous" asked for some ransom money.

Maybe, Tina wasn't being humorous.

[The Cooper Vortex 102]

11 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Some updates on the June release of Cooperland, my autobiography that leans heavily (mostly in the second half of the book) on my explorations into the D.B. Cooper case:

 

I cannot wait to read this book. I've been looking forward to it for years now.

[FLYJACK 742]

2 hours ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

I cannot wait to read this book. I've been looking forward to it for years now.

Maybe it is just me but don't you have to actually accomplish something to write and publish an autobiography otherwise it is just self indulgent narcissism.

[The Cooper Vortex 102]

1 hour ago, RobertMBlevins said:

And by the way...I did get that you were joking about looking forward to it.  But that's okay. 

I’m not joking. I’ve been saying it for years. Hopefully you’ll come on the show to promote the book. 

[FLYJACK 742]

WOW, the vortex comes in HOT...

Dan Gryder throws down on Ulis,,, Ulis fires back...

Load up on your popcorn folks..

Dan did a ton of work on his McCoy video and it was impressive, but nothing new and McCoy was not Cooper.. Ulis's response was good but not great, he missed some good points..

Dan is sore that he is being rejected, McCoy was not Cooper.

 

Dan responds to Ulis,,, is this professional wrestling.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 742]

It has been reported by a few that Brian's mother soaked the bills in Clorox...

Is there a source for that.. I might have it but I can't find it.

Clorox Ingredients..

The active ingredient in Clorox household bleach is sodium hypochlorite, which performs the bleaching, stain removal and disinfecting functions. Other chemical ingredients in Clorox include sodium chloride (salt), which thickens and stabilizes the solution. Sodium carbonate (washing soda) is an alkaline cleaning agent that breaks down alcohol and grease stains. Sodium hydroxide (lye) is another alkaline cleaning agent that breaks down fatty, oily or acidic stains. Sodium polyacrylate is a dispersant that prevents loosened soils from depositing back on fabrics during the laundry cycle.

 

Some of the tie particles may have been introduced post NORJAK..

Lycopodium powder was used in fingerprint powder as well as titanium dioxide, cadmium, barium, zinc, bismuth, calcium, mercury, cooper, lead, silicon, etc..

Edited December 24, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 742]

The Cooper tie had two tie pin holes besides the clip mark...

One was very large/warn, that indicates for most of the tie's life it had a pin.

Odd that there are two pin holes.. Why use two different locations.

https://citizensleuths.com/tie-clip.html

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by FLYJACK

[georger 256]

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

It has been reported by a few that Brian's mother soaked the bills in Clorox...

Is there a source for that.. I might have it but I can't find it.

Clorox Ingredients..

The active ingredient in Clorox household bleach is sodium hypochlorite, which performs the bleaching, stain removal and disinfecting functions. Other chemical ingredients in Clorox include sodium chloride (salt), which thickens and stabilizes the solution. Sodium carbonate (washing soda) is an alkaline cleaning agent that breaks down alcohol and grease stains. Sodium hydroxide (lye) is another alkaline cleaning agent that breaks down fatty, oily or acidic stains. Sodium polyacrylate is a dispersant that prevents loosened soils from depositing back on fabrics during the laundry cycle.

 

Some of the tie particles may have been introduced post NORJAK..

Lycopodium powder was used in fingerprint powder as well as titanium dioxide, cadmium, barium, zinc, bismuth, calcium, mercury, cooper, lead, silicon, etc..

In one of her interviews, Pat mentioned using Clorox and detergent while trying to clean the bills in the sink ........ there wasnt time for details or elaboration. 

[ParrotheadVol 70]

If you are going to call someone a ridiculous idiot, you should probably spell it correctly. I don't normally play the role of grammar police, but...

[FLYJACK 742]

Gryder is being a baby like Blevins, lashing out at Darren and Ulis for stating the facts..

Dan provided no new evidence.. like KC, MCCoy doesn't fit the evidence at all and is easily rejected though a better suspect than KC.

People put a lot of work into a suspect but become blinded to facts, they take a rejection of their suspect personally. They are so emotionally invested they lose perspective and lose a connection to reality.. Even Ulis fell into this trap for Sheridan. It wasn't personal when I posted the facts.. but he attacked me..  Blevins does the same, he is so emotionally invested in Kenneth Christiansen to protect his investment he lashes out, distorts reality and tries to discredit anybody who points out the evidence. Everybody who gains a good knowledge of the case rejects KC based on the lack of evidence for KC being Cooper. 

 

Most of the prominent suspects just do not fit the evidence. It is not my opinion and it is not personal, it is just reality. These suspects fail the Cooper profile test, some miserably.

Christiansen, Peterson, McCoy, Reca, LD Cooper, Dayton, Coffelt, List, Weber... were NOT Cooper.

 

On Hahneman, he is the best suspect by a long shot.. he matches the evidence extremely well and no I still can't put him on the plane though I have been trying.

If you want to attack Hahneman as a suspect you need facts, not assumptions, theories, conjecture and smears otherwise you are just being a baby.. Blevins

Edited December 24, 2021 by FLYJACK

[FLYJACK 742]

Blevins, you are on ignore because you are a serial liar.. you are absolutely toxic for the Cooper case and this forum and you have a very loose relationship with reality. Your case knowledge is weak and distorted. You have nothing to add but misinformation. Your logic/reasoning is contradictory and perverted. It isn't personal, I just have no interest in anything you have to say because it isn't based in reality. Anything you claim has no credit, no merit and undermines the advancement of the Cooper case. You are completely ignorant to the facts of the case... you are just noise.

There is nothing to be learned about the Cooper case from you.

Kenneth Christiansen was not Cooper, deal with it. KC is a joke now,

if you don't like what I say put me on ignore.