DB Cooper

[377 22]

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I give up - this is what Snowmman and Georger were sent here to do - to bury the truth in so much technology that no one would ever see the truth. Those pictures of the Fazion home are not as they appeared in 2001. There were buildings to the East of the parking lot - but back further from the river - there were trucks there.

Jo,

If this were true, how could Snow or Georger change the imagery available to everyone on Google Earth? I think they are really clever guys, but they are still mortals and do not control space, time or Google.

Isn't the more likely explanation faulty memeory or that you were remembering a different location? Moving the Fazio house through digital trickery does not serve the purpose of any conspiracy that I can envision.

I still welcome your participation here do hope your medical situation improves.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[nitrochute 2]

okay, so cossey identified itas a pilotchute. the nb6/nb8 has a very distinctive pilotchute(if the container was stock,not modified)so if it was a pilotchute, was it an nb6/nb8 pilotchute?did cossey get to see it?

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo,

If this were true, how could Snow or Georger change the imagery available to everyone on Google Earth? I think they are really clever guys, but they are still mortals and do not control space, time or Google.

Note: Those images are not May of 2000 but a later date. That house is NOT the house that was there in May of 2000 and that is NOT the same location the house was in. The house was older and more retangular...not the newer modern style indicated by the roof in the Google pics they displayed.

If this is the same house - things sure look different from the air than they do on the ground. The memory of that day is not flawed.
I have tried to visualize from the gate - (this is where I went when I got upset because they wanted me to pretend this was where Duane took me). I refused to participate in a lie.

I spent my time up there looking down on them. I will tell you I was looking down and maybe this is why it looks so different.
The land does an incline from that point to the shore. There were in May of 2000 more trees on the border just below and in the front of the parking. It looks like they made some changes to the parking lot and to the house.

I will tell you the house that was there was an older house - the old typical rectangular style. The front of the house faced a road or driveway on the North side and not the river as Snowmman has said. (I know what a backdoor looks like.) I am not going to argue this - because if the film company has all of the clips they made they would answer all of the questions. In the actual presentation on TV, they did not show the house.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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okay, so cossey identified itas a pilotchute. the nb6/nb8 has a very distinctive pilotchute(if the container was stock,not modified)so if it was a pilotchute, was it an nb6/nb8 pilotchute?did cossey get to see it?

nitrochute, I just quoted the article as it was printed.
My guess is that no one other than Tosaw said it was a pilot chute. And probably Cossey didn't.

I mean if someone really ID'ed it as a pilot chute, wouldn't people have been all over that area?

I posted the quote because it was weird how it was mentioned as recently as Apr 2008.

I think it's like a lot of stuff in this Cooper thing. Pseudo-facts get baked into the history, and then we forget just what actually happened. Or maybe we never really knew.

(edit) the reason it came back to my thoughts was solely because it showed that nylon fabric could exist on the bottom of the Columbia for some amount of time (unknown amount of time in this case, though)

[snowmman 3]

"I will tell you the house that was there was an older house - the old typical rectangular style. The front of the house face was a road or drive on the North side and not the river as Snowmman has said. (I know what a backdoor looks like.) I am not going to argue this - because if the film company has all of the clips they made they would answer all of the questions. In the actual presentation on TV, they did not show the house."

uh-oh. Jo is going to figure out that they brought her to the wrong place back then, as part of the cover-up. I knew we should have hired the guys who faked the Moon landing. You go with the low-bid, and look what you get. Caught!

I mean, yes Jo, you're correct. Uh.

What gate are you talking about Jo? The one with the Tena Bar sign on the left? Or another gate?

I think we all agree that it's downslope to the river. Why is that a big deal in your memory? No one disagrees with that.

[skyjack71 0]

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uh-oh. Jo is going to figure out that they brought her to the wrong place back then, as part of the cover-up. I knew we should have hired the guys who faked the Moon landing. You go with the low-bid, and look what you get. Caught!

I mean, yes Jo, you're correct. Uh.

What gate are you talking about Jo? The one with the Tena Bar sign on the left? Or another gate?

I think we all agree that it's downslope to the river. Why is that a big deal in your memory? No one disagrees with that.

=================

Now I AM SHOUTING - that was uncalled for -------

We were at Tena's bar and the Fazion home - and if the arial pic you are talking about is dated May 2001 or before - with the square shaped house - then it sure looks different standing in the parking lot and looking back up at it from the river than it looks from the air. I

Why don't you get a picture of that house from the back and front and also while you are at it check the building permits - if it was not rebuilt - it may have been remodeled.

I will concede that the location might be the same because of the incline - from the parking lot and the shoreline. They definitely took out some trees. Why don't you repost the arial you are declaring was in existence prior to May of 2001 and I will re-examine it. By reposting it only for me - this makes sure we are referring to the same arial.

Going on about a cover-up and a faked Moon landing is ridiculous.
I HAVE maintained the FBI did NOT do their job - that doesn't mean there was a deliberate cover-up. There is a difference you know. In my anger at some time over the last 13 yr. I may have called it a cover-up, but I never expected to have my every word analyzed. You take someone my age and from my background - ask them about this "mistakes result in a cover-up because people lie to cover-up mistakes".

I do not lie to cover-up the mistakes I have made - I keep telling what I do know hoping someone knows more. When I make mistakes I owe up to them when it is put to me in irrefutable documentation and pictures.

The FBI has never admitted they were in error regarding anything in the investigation of Cooper or Weber...so in my mind that is a cover-up. I can prove the FBI lied to me about Weber...ask yourself WHY. If it was a honest mistake - WHY NOT ADMIT IT.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo, just to check something - you have Duane's record of army service but not his record in the Navy?

No - I do not have FULL records on either. I have the Navy induction card and what our government sent me. Shows he went into the ARMY with no release date. Shows he went into the Navy and when he was released.

When I went to Veteran Affairs to acquire this information - it was ODD. I have told this story before.

The official pulling the records had to go get a code to access Duane's file. It came up CLASSIFIED - or some other terminology that meant he had to go see a Senior Official for a code. I would have to go back to my notes of 1998 to tell you exactly what the screen said.

This official told me he could NOT give me any information on Duane because I was not listed as a beneficiary. I explained that in 1943 - I was only 3 yrs old and did not meet my husband until 1976.
I explained that I needed to know the bases and training he recieved.

He gave me some forms to fill-out to get rid of me. What they sent was what I already had. I was led to believe I would be getting the things I asked for. Didn't Happen!

I am going to collect everything I have on his military background along with what pictures I have and letter. There is a military museum about an hour from me.
Maybe from looking at these things I do have - the historians might be able to fill in the blanks or know a way to get his records.

Inducted in Ohio and sent to a basic in the Northeast then he was sent to Jacksonville, Fl - which is where he was stationed when he got booted on a bad-conduct charge. Striking a 90 day wonder in time of war. Duane had told me that the man was feeling his girl up and he hit him in the head with a bottle of Carstairs (how it sounds - have no idea how to spell it or what kind of liguor it was).

Duane did not tell me about the bad conduct charge until we were living in Virginia and trying to get a loan to buy our first house. He told me they probably would not give him a loan. We did buy the house in Virginia, but not thru the VA.

If you know how I can get the detailed Navy records - to include the training area, what he was being trained for and what he did when he was sent to Jacksonville, I will supply what I have. I believe that these records or history might clear a lot up.

1941 - where did they send the guys from Ohio for basic? Where was he sent after basic and what training did he receive?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 256]

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okay, so cossey identified itas a pilotchute. the nb6/nb8 has a very distinctive pilotchute(if the container was stock,not modified)so if it was a pilotchute, was it an nb6/nb8 pilotchute?did cossey get to see it?

Its my understanding a policeman had already
been given the back packs at Issaquah (sp?) when
Cossey pulled up in his car with two NB6 back packs
he had brought from home. All of the chutes personally packed by Cossey, so you would think
he would know the details of the NB6's (two) he
gave?

I have all of the old posts on this matter filed if you
want me to dig and repost them?

G.

[georger 256]

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Quote

uh-oh. Jo is going to figure out that they brought her to the wrong place back then, as part of the cover-up. I knew we should have hired the guys who faked the Moon landing. You go with the low-bid, and look what you get. Caught!

I mean, yes Jo, you're correct. Uh.

What gate are you talking about Jo? The one with the Tena Bar sign on the left? Or another gate?

I think we all agree that it's downslope to the river. Why is that a big deal in your memory? No one disagrees with that.

=================

Now I AM SHOUTING - that was uncalled for -------

We were at Tena's bar and the Fazion home - and if the arial pic you are talking about is dated May 2001 or before - with the square shaped house - then it sure looks different standing in the parking lot and looking back up at it from the river than it looks from the air. I

Why don't you get a picture of that house from the back and front and also while you are at it check the building permits - if it was not rebuilt - it may have been remodeled.

I will concede that the location might be the same because of the incline - from the parking lot and the shoreline. They definitely took out some trees. Why don't you repost the arial you are declaring was in existence prior to May of 2001 and I will re-examine it. By reposting it only for me - this makes sure we are referring to the same arial.

Going on about a cover-up and a faked Moon landing is ridiculous.
I HAVE maintained the FBI did NOT do their job - that doesn't mean there was a deliberate cover-up. There is a difference you know. In my anger at some time over the last 13 yr. I may have called it a cover-up, but I never expected to have my every word analyzed. You take someone my age and from my background - ask them about this "mistakes result in a cover-up because people lie to cover-up mistakes".

I do not lie to cover-up the mistakes I have made - I keep telling what I do know hoping someone knows more. When I make mistakes I owe up to them when it is put to me in irrefutable documentation and pictures.

The FBI has never admitted they were in error regarding anything in the investigation of Cooper or Weber...so in my mind that is a cover-up. I can prove the FBI lied to me about Weber...ask yourself WHY. If it was a honest mistake - WHY NOT ADMIT IT.

why does any of this matter, except for accuracy?

How does identifying Fazio's home vrs. the cow barn
affect the Cooper matter?

G.

[snowmman 3]

"Why don't you get a picture of that house from the back and front and also while you are at it check the building permits - if it was not rebuilt - it may have been remodeled. "

I've already said I'm not sure what building is the house.
Why are we all fixated on the house?
Why not a cow barn? Or other farm building?

Did you not see all the farm buildings? I'm confused about this house thing.

I have google earth imagery going back to 1990 (b/w) just not as clear.

I already talked about the one new building in the field.

Why are we talking about this anyhow? Just to argue?
Ok. You're wrong. No you are! No you are more! I know you're wrong cause I can tell when someone is lying! Liar! Wrong!

(edit) Moon Landing Hoax background info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_Landing_hoax_accusations

Note there is missing data. This aligns with the missing data around Duane Weber. See the wikipedia site for all details of the TRUTH!

"Dr. David Williams (NASA archivist at Goddard Space Flight Center) and Apollo 11 flight director Gene Kranz both acknowledged that the Apollo 11 telemetry data tapes are missing."

"blueprints for the Apollo Lunar Module, rover, and associated equipment are missing"


Note that Stanley Kubrick, who filmed the fake Apollo Landing, also filmed Dr. Strangelove, which used the metaphor of smokejumper bull-riding kickers on nuclear weapons, to pass hidden messages about D.B. Cooper, along with an uncanny prediction of South Africa's use of nukes on Mt. St. Helens.

[377 22]

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Note that Stanley Kubrick, who filmed the fake Apollo Landing, also filmed Dr. Strangelove, which used the metaphor of smokejumper bull-riding kickers on nuclear weapons, to pass hidden messages about D.B. Cooper, along with an uncanny prediction of South Africa's use of nukes on Mt. St. Helens.

LOL, literally. Snow, you forgot Japan's crude but functional balloon launched nuke that blew up over Tunguska in 1908. It was an airburst facilitated by a paradrop device, just like they used on the WW2 Fuga balloons.

Everything that really matters has been covered up. Just try and get the truth about Mt St. Helens or Tunguska and you will see exactly what I am talking about. And while we are talking about balloons, let's not forget Roswell.

Their code?

volcano=fusion nuke
meteor=fission nuke
balloon=UFO
sailor=secret agent

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[jumpwally 0]

Wjhat a waste of band width...

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[jonstark 8]

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Wjhat a waste of band width...

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie.

[quade 4]

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Wjhat a waste of band width...

Would you rather have them confined to a single thread in a single location or spread though out the entire site.

We feel it's better to give them a place to do this and it's easy for everyone that doesn't care about it to simply skip it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

What Quade said.

This forum generates a lot of traffic and that is good for the website's financial survival.

Nobody gets sucked into this forum involuntarily. You have to click to enter and it is just as easy to leave.

Sure we "waste bandwidth" but no more than the soapbox does.

If skydivers find the Cooper stuff interesting that's reason enough to keep this forum open... and Quade is right, we are kinda quarantined here.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JohnRich 4]

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I have google earth imagery going back to 1990 (b/w) just not as clear.

Have you looked at this site? http://www.historicaerials.com/

It has some aerial photos of the Washington State area going back to 1939.

[snowmman 3]

not quite sure if it's a waste of bandwidth.
Efficiency is overrated as a metric, and only measurable in hindsight anyhow.
Obviously the most efficient resolution to the thread would be a single post, with Dan Cooper's real name in it.
Everything beyond that can be considered inefficient.

Has anyone looked at the recent study that analyzed how much bandwidth Google consumes on the web every month.

Hell, a post here with just text, is so insignificant in comparison.
So "bandwidth" is not the right metric.

It would be much better if people say what they actually think, rather than trying to use metrics that don't apply.

Clarity should be the goal for all human contact.
Hell, even happiness is overrated.

[georger 256]

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Quote

I have google earth imagery going back to 1990 (b/w) just not as clear.

Have you looked at this site? http://www.historicaerials.com/

It has some aerial photos of the Washington State area going back to 1939.

very nice link - thanks.

[Orange1 0]

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We feel it's better to give them a place to do this and it's easy for everyone that doesn't care about it to simply skip it.

Yes, in the same way that those of us who consider Bonfire or, especially, Speakers Corner a "waste of bandwidth" on a skydiving site can ignore them.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 256]

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We feel it's better to give them a place to do this and it's easy for everyone that doesn't care about it to simply skip it.

Yes, in the same way that those of us who consider Bonfire or, especially, Speakers Corner a "waste of bandwidth" on a skydiving site can ignore them.

I dont think this any anything to do with bandwidth.

[snowmman 3]

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Quote

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We feel it's better to give them a place to do this and it's easy for everyone that doesn't care about it to simply skip it.

Yes, in the same way that those of us who consider Bonfire or, especially, Speakers Corner a "waste of bandwidth" on a skydiving site can ignore them.

I dont think this any anything to do with bandwidth.

Here's a possible real issue, that I think may be part of the issue.

It's about how the site is organized.

The front page for the forums, have categories, and then 'one' thread is highlighted...i.e. the last thread that got a post.

This is like the front page of a newspaper.

People go to threads that are "published" on the front page.

Because the "DB Cooper" thread is in the skydiving trivia category, it takes away traffic from the other threads in that category.

This is just a reality of how people interact with web pages and information.

If I was more interested in the other threads, and getting posts/interaction on them, I'd be pissed because the placement of the DB Cooper thread works against my goals.

That simple.

I agree with those who suggested a while back that the DB Cooper thread should have it's own category. Hell, put it in a 'Non Jumpers Special" category. Or "Whuffo" category. Whatever.

Another category on the front page of the forums won't kill anyone, and it would help create more goodness in other Trivia threads.

The ranking by "last post" causes things to happen. If it wasn't important, why not list all the threads in Trivia just randomly? Or highlight no thread on the front page of the Forums?

Hell, a reasonable Forum would create "quality" metrics for each poster (some sites do this. rank community members based on votes from others, based on their posts). Threads could be highlighted according to "quality"

Etc.

There's lots of ways to use technology to achieve what I perceive are the real goals. Technology is flexible. The problem is, no one wants to pay for it!

[377 22]

OMG, quality grades on forum posts??? I'd better dust off my dunce cap from second grade. I kinda like the chaos of this forum, but I may be alone in this sentiment.

Even with the lack of discipline we manage to get some good signals extracted from the noise. I have learned a lot about Air America's covert air ops, Boeing 727 systems, river hydrology and USFS smoke jumper ties to CIA ops in SE Asia.

Sure we waste time on tangents, but there are some smart people here and from time to time they come up with some amazing stuff that could be Cooper related.

Skydiving culture is pretty entropic. The only thing that is always neat, organized and symmetrical is a reserve pack job. The loose non conformist aspect of skydiving culture has always appealed to me. It peaked in the 60s but still runs deep at most DZs.

Jacques Istel, a true skydiving pioneer, tried to impose a military like discipline in his early organized skydiving activities. Maybe it was necessary "back in the day" to get credibility and dispel the "sky biker" image. It didn't last.

The only thing that skydiving has in common with its highly organized military equivalent is parachutes and airplanes. Even with a traditionally loose and laid back culture, skydivers can still effect top notch professional discipline and precision when needed. Look at the huge ways in Thailand if you doubt that.

Freedom and chaos have something in common and jumpers enjoy the mix. I sure do.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

There are a bunch of nice 727 videos on youtube. Some cockpit.
You have to watch out because people put a lot of flight simulator vids up, and they can be realistic.

This is a vid in the cockpit, for a 727 landing at night in Winnipeg. It's clear. You can see the city lights. (it's a real vid)

We were talking about the field of view from a 727 cockpit, and the glow from Vancouver/Portland, in talking about what Rataczak might have meant in his comment about what he could see, before cooper jumped.

The altitude here is probably a bit low since they were landing and there are no clouds. But it's interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMkSC68a15w

Also, just as a curiousity, here's the flight tracking info (more than we have on 305) for a flight from Seatac to PDX just recently: 2/10/09.
Route wasn't V-23?
28 minutes. Interesting he only went to 19000. Spent most of the flight descending? looks like the log is missing 1 or 2 minutes at the start.

Time Ground speed
Pacific TZ Latitude Longitude kts Altitude (feet)
11:48AM 47.35 -122.32 218 5900 level
11:49AM 47.29 -122.33 223 9300 climbing
11:50AM 47.20 -122.33 258 11900 climbing
11:51AM 47.10 -122.33 323 16200 climbing
11:52AM 47.00 -122.33 353 19000 climbing
11:53AM 46.89 -122.33 367 19000 level
11:54AM 46.79 -122.34 373 19000 level
11:55AM 46.69 -122.35 373 19000 level
11:56AM 46.58 -122.36 373 19000 level
11:57AM 46.48 -122.37 373 19000 level
11:58AM 46.38 -122.38 373 18600 descending
11:59AM 46.28 -122.39 361 16700 descending
12:00PM 46.20 -122.40 341 14600 descending
12:01PM 46.12 -122.41 329 12400 descending
12:02PM 46.04 -122.44 312 10300 descending
12:03PM 45.99 -122.52 273 9100 descending
12:04PM 45.94 -122.59 259 7600 descending
12:05PM 45.90 -122.66 246 6100 descending
12:06PM 45.86 -122.72 228 5000 descending
12:07PM 45.83 -122.77 200 4300 descending
12:08PM 45.79 -122.80 175 3000 descending
12:09PM 45.75 -122.81 164 3000 level
12:10PM 45.70 -122.83 164 2500 descending
12:11PM 45.66 -122.79 163 2500 level
12:12PM 45.64 -122.74 149 1900 descending
12:13PM 45.62 -122.69 149 1100 descending
12:14PM 45.60 -122.64 149 800 descending
12:15PM 45.58 -122.59 149
12:16PM 45.56 -122.55 149
12:17PM 45.54 -122.50 149

another example 737 KSEA to KPDX is here
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA9003/history/20090208/0356Z/KSEA/KPDX/tracklog

looks like this path might be the more standard KSEA to KPDX flight path nowadays?

more KSEA to KPDX examples here:
http://flightaware.com/live/findflight_route.rvt?origin=ksea&destination=kpdx

[nigel99 567]

Quote

Here's a possible real issue, that I think may be part of the issue.

It's about how the site is organized.

The front page for the forums, have categories, and then 'one' thread is highlighted...i.e. the last thread that got a post.

This is like the front page of a newspaper.

People go to threads that are "published" on the front page.

Maybe Quade can do a reverse "sticky" - ie this thread is stuck at the bottom of the page

Seriously though the waste of bandwidth 90% of the posts on DZ.com are noise. With the direction this thread has taken it may be appropriate to move it to the bonfire - at least there is some serious competition for top slot there!

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[georger 256]

Quote

Quote

Here's a possible real issue, that I think may be part of the issue.

It's about how the site is organized.

The front page for the forums, have categories, and then 'one' thread is highlighted...i.e. the last thread that got a post.

This is like the front page of a newspaper.

People go to threads that are "published" on the front page.

Maybe Quade can do a reverse "sticky" - ie this thread is stuck at the bottom of the page

Seriously though the waste of bandwidth 90% of the posts on DZ.com are noise. With the direction this thread has taken it may be appropriate to move it to the bonfire - at least there is some serious competition for top slot there!

His vita says 1-jump. And now he is expert!
Perhaps to take up tiddly winks or water wading
and be expert there?