DB Cooper

[377 22]

Quote

I've read a lot of the old-timers talking about the Golden Age of jumping...the 70's I guess. And it got me wondering about how people weren't so focused on jobs and money (if you were young) cause there wasn't any.

Are we returning to that kind of thing? where people just do crazy shit and not talk about whether it makes sense any more because what the fuck are you going to do anyhow?

Is the guy who can afford to bring the case of beer going to be everyone's friend? Jumping off cliffs cause no one can afford planes? Is Crazy Billy going to be sewing up military surplus gear, selling out of the back of his van in the parking lot? Hell if I know, maybe that's the scene already.

Maybe things will revert to the good old days Snow.

How about a tethered hydrogen balloon? Hydrogen is dirt cheap, lifts far better than helium and you can make it yourself by dissociating water with DC electric power. A solar cell powered DC winch located on the ground would hoist you on a line passing through pulley affixed below the balloon. If you used a continous loop you wouldn't even need a winch drum, just a powered sheave. Could the FAA regulate such a tethered aerial object?

Like an old school ski lift but vertical. Snow, being a climber, could help me choose the right rope and hardware to clip on to and release from it.

Maybe no winch, just a vehicle pulling on one end of the rope, like a vertical glider tow. Maybe just a bunch of guys harnessed in and walking 6000 ft down an abandoned runway pulling their buddy up to jump altitude.

When you have no money you have to get creative. Brewing our own beer would be the easy part.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

I wonder how allied bomber crews fared bailing out over Europe in WW 2? Most had never jumped before. Many British bomber crews bailed out at night in the winter over all sorts of terrain. Injuries? No pulls? Is there any good data on this?

Landing a military bailout type round is not hard to do on good soft level ground, but they come down fast and if you add rocks, darkness and hills to the equation injuries become a lot more likely.

377

My dad jumped at night out of a B-17 in N Africa.
It was a hilly, rocky area.

He said that you didn't see the ground coming and landed hard.
It was his first jump.

The co-pilot hit a rock on landing and broke his leg.
If the rest of the crew had not come to find him, he would have died on the side of that mountain.

Fortunately, it was neither raining or cold. No trees or water.

They were are well dressed with flying jackets, boots, armed,
headgear.

Most air crews didn't get jump training because so many kept
getting hurt during the training.

(The name of the CF pilot is Caroline Amazingly hot and wonderful personality. )

[skyjack71 0]

I know we do not usually post things like this but I have to post this:

Subject: Growing old is no fun!

An 80 year old man goes for a physical. All of his tests come back with normal results. The doctor says, "George, everything looks great. How are you doing mentally and emotionally? Are you at peace with God?"

George replies, "God and I are tight. He knows I have poor eyesight, so He's fixed it so when I get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, poof! The light goes on. When I'm done, poof! The light goes off." "Wow, that's incredible," the doctor says. A little later in the day, the doctor calls George's wife. "Ethel," he says, "George is doing fine! But I had to call you because I'm in awe of his relation-ship with God. Is it true that he gets up during the night,and poof! the light goes on in the bathroom, and when he's done, poof! the light goes off?" "Oh my God!" exclaims Ethel. "He's peeing in the refrigerator again!"

Oh well I didn't know if this is allowed in the forum or not, but it had me laughing and thought it might put a smile of someone elses face.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

My dad jumped at night out of a B-17 in N Africa.
It was a hilly, rocky area.

WOW! So you really owe your life to a parachute, (your Dad's). Obviously he found his ripcord handle in the dark. I am sure he was tumbling too.

I sort of understand not doing actual jump training for aircrews. Why risk an injury? Chances are small that you will have to jump on a mission (today, not in WW 2). Tell em what to do but don't actually drop them. Makes sense.

I have always wondered why they still make 28 ft C 9 type canopies for jet ejection seats and bailout rigs. A bit larger canopy would sure cut down on impact injuries.

Wonder how big your Dad's canopy was?

I was told that they want to minimize canopy hang time so that crews will land close together.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,

Two videos of Tom Kaye and his fishing expedition in Vancouver, WA.

Recognize anyone else in the video?

Go here:

Tom Kaye goes fishing at Frenchman’s Bar


Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

There's been a lot of info about the problems with having a bag attached to Cooper, during the jump.

I was watching this vid of a Russian guy playing the accordion on a jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b1q9dz9jXM&feature=related

It can't be true, right, for a few reasons

1) You wouldn't be able to hear the accordion and hold a tune
2) The chaos of the jump, etc.
3) They're Russian, not American.

(just kidding, it's obvious he's a skilled accordion player, which explains things)

[georger 247]

That's right Georger. Jo correctly assigns all blame to you and I am proud that you are taking it like a man. While you are in that mode, can I blame today's stock market crash on you too?

REPLY:

am I reading this right?

bye

[georger 247]

Georger - I will re-interate today that I did NOT move to Virginia until 1983. Therefore there were NO news items about McCoy while I was living there.


REPLY> Well Duane must have heard something
if you didnt, because you already told us:

""The picture with the mustach and white hair was taken in Virginia Beach around 1987 -- this was how
he appeared after NORJAX was put on the racks in 1984 --- Why did he suddenly grow facial hair in 1984 or 85."

You are implying that Duane began hiding behind
facial hair in 1984 when you two lived at Virginia
Beach, because of the publishing of NORJAK which
you say: "was put on the racks in 1984 --- Why did
he suddenly grow facial hair in 1984-85".

If what you are implying is true then Duane must
have learned of the publishing of NORJAK in 1984
and was living at Virgina Beach .... with you?

It is you making this connection, not me!

This isn't something I dreamed up! (I frankly
could give a shit!)

Why else are you even posting about this here
at this forum? It's your post. Your words. Your thoughts. And nobody elses.

Trying to deal with you is a no-win situation.


Congratulations.

[377 22]

Quote

That's right Georger. Jo correctly assigns all blame to you and I am proud that you are taking it like a man. While you are in that mode, can I blame today's stock market crash on you too?

REPLY:

am I reading this right?

bye

No Georger you are not reading it right. Not at all. Can't you see the sarcasm? Hint: it isn't directed at you.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Feorger quoted me as saying:
"The picture with the mustach and white hair was taken in Virginia Beach around 1987,this was how
he appeared after NORJAX was put on the racks in 1984. Why did he suddenly grow facial hair in 1984 or 85?"

My reply is that I never tried to be 100% accurate - as I was replying to other responses.
1. We moved to Va in 1983 or 84 - but I am not sure about the date.
2. He did drive me by a house in Va. Bch. Va and told me that was where McCoy was killed. I was not very interested in this, but do remember his doing this shortly after we moved to Va.
3. Yes, Duane did grow his mustache and a head full of hair when we went to Va...He was working as a manager and had more than a one time contact with other agents and individuals.
4. Tosaws Book was published in 1984 - but I did not see or read that book my self until 1997, but Duane probably did...he just didn't bring it around me or I didn't know what it was about.
5. Norjack did not make the streets until 1986 - this is the book he had at our house, but I didn't know what the book was about...I have told that story before so need to retell it.
6. After Norjack the neat mustache became very full and the hair much longer.
7. I did not go back and look at photos and try to document what I was saying - never dreamt that my every word would be examined and put under a microscope.
8. Yes. the statement was a general statement rather than this detailed summary I have been compelled to do.
9. I knew what was going on in the world - but what some of you do not seem to grasp - is that Cooper was NOT front page in the South as it was in the West. No I did not watch the evening news (I was working). No I didn't read the paper everyday - I was working. What spare time I had - I spent with my husband and my daughter and doing things we liked to do. Knowing what is going on and having an interest in what is going on are 2 different things.


ORANGE:
I have a lot of "stuff" but having this "stuff" and knowing what to do with it are 2 different animals. Since the FBI really doesn't care - by fielding some of the things over the yrs in a forum, I have been led to the research that validates things I told the FBI yrs ago and things Duane told me such as the 727's being jumped out for in the 60's

The things I sold and gave away during the first yr after Duane died - not knowing the significance - had there been a forum back in those yrs or someone who could have told me who Dan Cooper was - I would still have more 'Stuff" than I have now.
"Stuff" that might have solved the crime once and for all.

Just when I think something is just more "stuff" I find it may or could be significant. The FBI does exactly what they did in 1971 and then in 1986 - ignore things. The FBI blatantly lied to me in 2000 and they stand by their statement of 1998 that they had FULLY investigated Duane L. Weber. I guess the FBI thought I would never be able to put my hands on Duane's files (remember Carr claimed he was going to send them to me after summarizing them here in this forum - he never did). What he didn't state was that they did NOT have that information in 1998 when they put out their "statement" regarding Duane.

Some files I had acquired thru an investigative reporter - then I go and try to find more on my own only to find the file is "sealed" or has been "changed". His army record is one that got "changed' from what was available in 1997 and what was available in 2000.

I have shared this other "stuff" with the FBI and it is never acknowledged or investigated - so I go about investigating the "stuff" the best way I can and at a lot of expense on my part. The forum and some of the valuable contributors have helped me to put some of this "stuff" in perspective like the Commutation of Sentence - I had NO idea what I was holding. Because of this forum - I went full force trying to find what I could about Jefferson.

Because of this forum I went back and looked at some other things I considered insignifcant and found new evidence which was sent to the FBI and no response. Some of it could just be stuff - such as a small medallion on a chain - Sluggo thought it important - I didn't, but it was an odd thing for someone to keep from 1970 other than it was gold - yet, when we melted our gold down and he held this item out.

There is so much more - tapes, photos and things the FBI had no interest in looking at or pursuing after I acquired them...because they had done their 1998 statement and in Mar of 2000 they denied Duane had been in Mc Neil or the Army causing me to go up against them. Tell me things but don't lie to me - I get madder than a wet hen. Make a mistake - owe up to it or clear it up.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 247]

Quote

Feorger quoted me as saying:
"The picture with the mustach and white hair was taken in Virginia Beach around 1987,this was how
he appeared after NORJAX was put on the racks in 1984. Why did he suddenly grow facial hair in 1984 or 85?"

My reply is that I never tried to be 100% accurate - as I was replying to other responses.
1. We moved to Va in 1983 or 84 - but I am not sure about the date.
2. He did drive me by a house in Va. Bch. Va and told me that was where McCoy was killed. I was not very interested in this, but do remember his doing this shortly after we moved to Va.
3. Yes, Duane did grow his mustache and a head full of hair when we went to Va...He was working as a manager and had more than a one time contact with other agents and individuals.
4. Tosaws Book was published in 1984 - but I did not see or read that book my self until 1997, but Duane probably did...he just didn't bring it around me or I didn't know what it was about.
5. Norjack did not make the streets until 1986 - this is the book he had at our house, but I didn't know what the book was about...I have told that story before so need to retell it.
6. After Norjack the neat mustache became very full and the hair much longer.
7. I did not go back and look at photos and try to document what I was saying - never dreamt that my every word would be examined and put under a microscope.
8. Yes. the statement was a general statement rather than this detailed summary I have been compelled to do.
9. I knew what was going on in the world - but what some of you do not seem to grasp - is that Cooper was NOT front page in the South as it was in the West. No I did not watch the evening news (I was working). No I didn't read the paper everyday - I was working. What spare time I had - I spent with my husband and my daughter and doing things we liked to do. Knowing what is going on and having an interest in what is going on are 2 different things.


Reply> Jo. I consider this the single finest post
you have made to date on Dropzone. I find it
truthful and I appreciate that. I wont bother you
further about these matters. This matter is closed
for my part. Thanks.
Georger

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

In reviewing stuff, I was wondering about how people parse information. (added some new details since the last time I mentioned LaPoint)

1) How many people think LaPoint would have died on the ground in CO if he wasn't found right away? Note it was Jan 20, 1972. Still looking for exact temps, but it was colder than Cooper's.

2) How many people think the Akron,CO DZ was planned, or random?

3) How far do you think he might have had to go to "get out?" Note they found him in a field. They didn't helicopter in to find him.

4) Depending on how you feel about LaPoint's landing, what's different about it compared to Cooper's?

Some people think "old men" are inferior to young men in endurance activities. If you've ever studied that physiology thing, like for marathon training, you realize that being 23, vs 45, is not necessarily as huge an advantage as one might think.

Why is Cooper considered burdened by age, in terms of "getting out alive". ??

Note that LaPoint had training, but jumped in crazy clothes (cowboy boots and western shirt) and got injured on landing. It doesn't seem like the Army paratrooper training helped him at all? Landed in CO wheat field. He asked for a helmet. Don't know if he got or used one.

Other details per:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CEAOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=e38DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6624,4063013&dq=lapoint+hijack
He was 13 miles from the nearest town but only 1/2 mile from the nearest road.
Akron, CO had population 1,890.
Plane was going about 140 knots or maybe 180 mph (2 reports) when he bailed.

Note he was the dumb guy with a clock that I mentioned, on his fake bomb. He also didn't know how to open the door.

(edit) The article also says he threw a briefcase in the air when spotted. So he somehow successfully jumped with a briefcase. Maybe attached to himself somehow. See the google url above.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Repost of the only DC-9 jump. (LaPoint)
with some stuff from "the good book" at
http://books.google.com/...hyJHTQC&pg=PA751


Richard Charles LaPoint, 23, an ex-Army paratrooper. Apparently from Revere, MA, or Seabrook NH? Vietnam vet. Was a salesman in Denver.

Hughes Airwest Flight 800.

It was out of DC-9, not a 727. The kid only asked for $50,000. Injured on landing. Must have been a little chilly too. Jumped in cowboy boots. Day jump..about 3:25 PM. Asked for helmet in addition to the two chutes and money.

This cowboy had highway flares wired to a clock.

Plane started in Las Vegas, Landed in Denver, CO to get money and two chutes. Jumped near Akron, CO. Used alias "John Shane".

from the article:

"...mustachioed young man, dressed in cowboy boots and Western clothes...
...
The next report,...came at 1:57 PM when the plane was flying at 12,000 feet near Denver. At that time the hijacker was reported seeking instructions on how to open a seldom-used door at the rear of the plane.

The opening of this door was described as hazardous by the airline spokesman, who said it was situated beneath the two engines mounted on the rear of the fuselage.

The pilot of the hijacked airliner..said later that the man bailed out at 12,000 feet while the plane was traveling 180 miles an hour.
...
Two Air Force F-111 fighter-bombers trailed the hijacked plane....pilots ..spotted the parachute blossoming below the hijacked craft.
...
..officers had tracked the accused hijacker through snow and mud, finding him lying in a field about a half-mile from the nearest road. He complained of an injured leg."

[snowmman 3]

There are two videos available from kgw. I looked them over. Not really certain there's anything there that's interesting.

However I did snap one frame.

I had badgered Ckret about whether there were photos of the money that we hadn't seen from 1980 (when first found).

Tom Kaye is seen holding a photo of the money, that we haven't seen.

Notably, it's a picture of a bundle, specifically what I (guessing) called "shifted bill bundle" with a speculation that it must have shifted while dry. Which might be totally bogus. I don't know what Tom K's speculation was from the photo. (Maybe it's not the bundle I think it is?)
(edit) I just compared the serial number on it to the corbis table photo (the serials I could see) and it doesn't match. Maybe it's a bundle in the back on the table. I can't see in in the cropped top AP shot either. So it's unclear which it is.

Tom says something in the video pointing to it, but he must be just spouting off, because what would he know from a picture?

In any case, that one snap is attached.

There are other photos in the video that we've already seen. I think they are all press photos.

They mention the Oregonian, a local paper. I'm not sure if they maybe visited the Oregonian to look at archival photos.
It's possible the Club has access to FBI photos, but it's unclear. I believe it was all filmed in the Portland/Vancouver area, so they wouldn't have travelled to get anything from Larry.

I have no idea why this photo of a bundle exists. It could be a zoom in of the full green-table b/w photos. Or a photo taken by a news guy that day (most probable).

Be nice if Tom gave us some more on what he was trying to say when he pointed to this picture.

(edit) while subject to interpretation, I don't think this is a photo of a single bill. Doesn't look like our normal single bill photos.

(edit) if people think the kgw page vids are too small
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyJM_cfADe4&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chGO-axsbOo&feature=channel_page

My first thought on the first video, is that the huge tracts of land needed some comment, but upon reflection, they spoke for themselves.

[snowmman 3]

There's a picture of the pants that were found in the video (we talked about this story from news articles). (if I remember weren't they just wrong, per description?)

In the background there's a picture of the placard found.
In one of the books I had there's a better placard photo than anything the FBI put up recently. I didn't scan it because I didn't think it was useful. Yes it's Gunther's book.

I just scanned it and added that also.

Edit: note there's been reports of the placard being both inside and outside the plane. And that mechanics would say the outside one would fall off a lot. That issue has never been clarified here

[snowmman 3]

The Citizen's Club apparently hadn't seen the pants stories before.

Last May, I obliquely made mention to it, with a reference to the McNally pants stories. Since I like those pants stories, I'll repost.

We may have to restart, since pants were at question 96.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
some more detail on the McNally capture.
Evidently not all of the capture detail was in my prior post, and it's funny/interesting.
Attached is a news article from 7/1/72.
Apparently he was picked up by a local cop and kept under surveillance? He apparently lost his pants on the jump, but found a new pair of pants. Got a bruised face on the jump. (plus some other bruises apparently from rig straps?)

Note pilots told FBI that they expected he died on the jump because of the speed. Much like people have said about Cooper, actually.

His partner didn't turn until the police pointed out how bad his story was.

Hmm..amazing how the details of things are always more complicated than you first read about. I'm still not sure about all the details of this McNally thing.

It looks like it was Detroit Police who cracked the case, not FBI Although the FBI claims they had prints from the hijack note.

Also, correlating to the note about difficulties understand the rig (above) one article suggested this could have been McNally's first jump. Don't know for sure.


(This post was edited by snowmman on May 23, 2008, 10:29 PM)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose they found pants with the chute and gun? (don't know how close). But then they wonder how McNally made it back to Michigan from Indiana (they weren't sure how) and he had pants. It sounds dumb once you think of the rig straps, eh?

Maybe he left "spare" pants he didn't use with the chute? More likely someone messed up in the initial story, I suppose.

It looks like after 7/1/72 they don't repeat the pants angle anymore.

What's also funny, is that there were a number of reports of pants found in the Cooper jump zone thru the years.

Some articles imply McNally was just "holding" the money bag, but that's hard to believe. He must have attached it somehow...dunno...it blew away no matter what.

BUT: assuming he kept his pants..it does tell us that there's an existence proof for novice jumper, just wearing pants, at night? don't know what shoes or if had goggles.

Interestingly, if he didn't lose his pants (shred) that's good data too. Means Cooper might not have been noticeable from shredded pants!

(I almost love talking about pants theories more than rubber band theories!)

And we're not even past question 96 yet!

------------------------------------------------------------
(edit) Just adding this. I rescanned the Gunther Placard photo. Had to read up on moire patterns from halftones! I think this is a better scan now. Remember that Gunther used newspaper articles in his book.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Quote

"This is why we do these experiments. If you had asked me what happens to money, I would've thought it floated," said Kaye.

Could have saved himself some time by reading my posts, but that's why I don't visit this board anymore. People have their mind's made up without having any evidence to disagree.

Money does float, but it just doesn't float for very long (it's a matter of minutes) and this floatability makes a huge difference in figuring how far the money could have traveled.

Good luck

[377 22]

Come back SafecrackinPLF, we need your input! You have been away far too long.

If the money float is only a few minutes how does it make a huge difference in travel distance? What is huge? What are the water velocities we are talking about on a rainy winter night?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

"This is why we do these experiments. If you had asked me what happens to money, I would've thought it floated," said Kaye.

Could have saved himself some time by reading my posts, but that's why I don't visit this board anymore. People have their mind's made up without having any evidence to disagree.

Money does float, but it just doesn't float for very long (it's a matter of minutes) and this floatability makes a huge difference in figuring how far the money could have traveled.

Good luck

Hi SafecrackingPLF.
Why was Tom playing with a single bundle?
It looked like classic bad science on TV. What was I missing?
We've been wondering if these Tom shows are really just stage shows to get Cooper tips phoned in, but there was no phone-in message on that show.
Does anyone know why that show was on the news?

(edit) oh p.s. Safe. Don't blame the Tom show on this forum. Tom doesn't talk about his experiments here. They're created in secret. Apparently there's a parallel secret club that some posters are members of. Admission requirements are unclear.


(edit) It doesn't apply here but single bills float a long time. There was a case in Japan recently. I'll find the link.

(edit) here it is. Picture attached of the money being dried.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/28/asia/AS-ODD-Japan-River-of-Money.php
Mar. 28, 2007:
Police used fishing nets and their hands Wednesday to scoop up 2.7 million yen (US$23,000; €17,230) in mysterious cash floating down a Japanese river, an official said.

A passer-by notified police after seeing the bank notes drifting down the Sakai River on the border between Tokyo and Kanagawa prefecture, a Tokyo police official said on condition of anonymity, citing protocol.

Police managed to catch 270 soggy 10,000-yen (US$85; €64) bills, Japan’s biggest denomination, the official said.

Police are still investigating how and why the money was dumped.

[snowmman 3]

I just did a quick search, and although Safe discussed float issues and tests, I don't think he ever posted results.

Can anyone find Safe's results he's referring to?

(edit) Believe I found it
Mar 31, 2008
SafecrackingPLF said:
"Individual stacks of cash can only float for about 10 minutes and 30 seconds. Sunken cash at the bottom of the river will not float its way miraculously to the top for a sand bar deposit. You took care of that one."

Details of the test apparently not reported.

(edit) Also on Mar 11,2008, SafecrackingPLF said:
"One single pack can only float for 10 minutes and 25 seconds."

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

I have safecrackingPLF's results (or at least the photos), but I'll need his permission to post them. How about it Safe...PLF? Can I show those photos of your big feet?
See, snowmman, there are a lot of secret clubs on this forum. The requirement for membership is: BUILD TRUST. Both in what you say and what you do.

It's sort of like KARMA (not to be confused with KERMA). [That's a Health Physics joke!]

Sluggo_Monster

PS: I'm traveling this weekend, so I may not be easily reached.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

This is just a single test, and not in the area we're interested in, but it's interesting. Chart is attached at bottom. The absolute numbers are less interesting than the claim that the relative difference between surface and flow at 12 feet down, were similar in other locales...They mean a fairly linear decrease in channel velocity with depth.

Seems like good data.

http://seattlecentral.edu/qelp/sets/011/011.html

Current velocities were measured on a number of transects across the Columbia River in Washington State, to understand how velocity varies within a channel. The velocity at any point in a river is controlled by a number of factors, including the river's slope or gradient, roughness of the channel bed, turbulence of the flow, depth of the river, etc. Typically, water moves faster away from the bed of the river, where obstacles create drag and turbulence. The highest velocity overall is usually in the deepest part of the channel, just below the surface. Knowing the average velocity in a channel is extremely important when calculating river discharge, the volume of water flowing past in a given amount of time.

The data on velocity versus depth in the channel were acquired at a station below Grand Coulee Dam at a distance of 13 feet from the edge of the river. The depth of the Columbia River at this spot was about 12 feet at the time of measurement. Velocities were measured at various heights in the water column.

These data show a regular decrease of velocity with increasing depth in the river, as might be expected. The data are fairly linear, with a high correlation coefficient.

Other locales show a similar decrease in velocity with depth, though often with much more scatter, and without the fairly monotonic behavior exhibited by this example.

Reference: Savini, J. and Bodhaine, G. L. (1971), Analysis of current meter data at Columbia River gaging stations, Washington and Oregon; USGS Water Supply Paper 1869-F.

[snowmman 3]

I've discovered evidence of secret clubs, i.e. this post:

"See, snowmman, there are a lot of secret clubs on this forum. The requirement for membership is: BUILD TRUST. Both in what you say and what you do."

Apparently they are trust-based. Trust-based, or affinity ponzi schemes can be very successful.

If anyone has any inside knowledge of these clubs, or can infiltrate them, please PM me.

They may be writing books, for instance.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,


KING-5 did a short piece on Tom’s fishing expedition and today’s visit to the Seattle FBI office. You can find it here:

The Tie, the money, and Tom

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

With both Sluggo and SafecrackinPLF posting it is like old times. If only Ckret would make a brief celebrity appearance.

I just got kicked out of one DBC secret club Snow, so don't feel alone in your failure to join the in crowd. Popularity is fickle. Some of us just don't have the right stuff.

Unlike most jumpers who want all RW all the time, I actually enjoy solo jumps. No goals (other than to land alive), no points, no judges. You can really just feel the sky and enjoy the scenery.

Why is it always the other guy who marries the Swedish model B 24 pilot or finds big bills in a Japanese river? This was supposed to be the future. Where is my jet pack?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

All,


KING-5 did a short piece on Tom’s fishing expedition and today’s visit to the Seattle FBI office. You can find it here:

The Tie, the money, and Tom

Sluggo_Monster

Q: What is Tom fishing for using money as bait?

A; Lawyers
A: Sharks (same as lawyers)
A: Publicity
A: (your answer here)

I truly welcome Tom's press coverage. It gets about 10,000 times more exposure than our cloistered incestuous forum does. Who knows what may come out of the woods spurred by the resurgence of DBC interest?

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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.