DB Cooper

[377 22]

Jerry,

Assuming Cooper pulled and landed under a deployed canopy I think he wouldn't go to very much trouble to conceal the canopy and harness/container, just enough to obscure it from immediate discovery from an air search.

Maybe he did as little as gathering it up and covering it with leaves or debris.

If this were done in 1971 in the area you are searching, would the gear now be under a layer of decayed organic material? How deep in your estimate? I just wonder if you have a reasonable expectation of being able to see any remains of Cooper or his gear without digging.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

Quote

G,

What's wrong with a bit of kindness or tolerance? I don't agree with any of Jo's Duane is Cooper theories, but see no need to attack, deride or ostracize her.

The level of anger hatred disgust that Jo seems to arouse surprises me. This is just an obscure forum, not real life. All she does is post words. Hard to see why that is so enraging to some.

""Carnage"? "Vomiting"? Come on, this is just an Internet forum. You can ignore Jo. If I irritate you, you can also ignore me. Or, you could try tolerance. It is good for reducing hypertension.

377

Any future PM appeals for help I receive from Jo
Weber will be referred to you.

You are the "person on record" now, so far as I
am concerned, for managing all Jo Weber problems
brought to my attention. Good luck.

[JerryThomas 0]

377 It realy depends on the thickness of the forest canopy and changes from year to year.Location is also a very important factor as to whether or not he was close to a stream or deep in the woods. But on average 3 to 6 inches would be exspected to have acumilated over the last 30yrs I have found things that have been on the ground for over 60yrs with very little debris on it.In the 1990's a guy by the last name of Johnson While hunting bear found a Skull close to the area I am now searching. It belonged to a Pilot that had crashed in that area in the 40's.So you see things can stay hidden in this area for year's.But eventually something usually turns up.This area is growing so fast I don't think it will be much longer before this case is solved.This area didn't start booming untill the early 1990's Now Washougal Camas and Vancouver and North to Battle Ground seems like on big city.Even the Washougal river road is solid houses all the way past Dougan Falls Home's are poping up all the way to the Gifford Pinchot National Forrest Boundaries. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

377 sorry I forgot to address the digging isue. If the location permits I do scrape around normally thats all it take's. It's easy to tell if there has been any disturbance in the area.It always looks different.It is either higher or lower than its suroundings. Even if there has been years pass. Jerry

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

Hey Jerry,

here's all the more reason to look up instead of at the ground! HA! This was from Fox NEws



German Man's Skeleton Found in Tree Nearly 30 Years After His Suicide
Wednesday, April 08, 2009


A skeleton of a German man who shot and killed himself in a tree has been found by a hiker – nearly 30 years later.

Police said the 69-year-old retiree who had been missing since 1980 tied himself to the tree before firing the gun, Reuters reported.

His remains were discovered after an 18-year-old hiker found a bone in the forest last week and brought it to police, who then searched the area, Reuters reported.

"We found the skeleton up in the tree with the pistol hanging on a rope next to it," police spokesman Leonard Mayer was quoted as saying.

The body was identified through DNA testing and an artificial hip, Reuters reported

[georger 247]

Quote

Hey Jerry,

here's all the more reason to look up instead of at the ground! HA! This was from Fox NEws



German Man's Skeleton Found in Tree Nearly 30 Years After His Suicide
Wednesday, April 08, 2009


A skeleton of a German man who shot and killed himself in a tree has been found by a hiker – nearly 30 years later.

Police said the 69-year-old retiree who had been missing since 1980 tied himself to the tree before firing the gun, Reuters reported.

His remains were discovered after an 18-year-old hiker found a bone in the forest last week and brought it to police, who then searched the area, Reuters reported.

"We found the skeleton up in the tree with the pistol hanging on a rope next to it," police spokesman Leonard Mayer was quoted as saying.

The body was identified through DNA testing and an artificial hip, Reuters reported

Jerry, this may sound like a silly question but do you
use dogs - would they be of any value?

Years ago I ran into a breed of Australian dingo
called the Australian shepherd. The Aborigines used
them to find things. They can smell very deep and
some people use them to find buried bodies.

[377 22]

Thanks for the informative reply Jerry. I am convinced that Coopers parachute gear is out there with or without him. The gear alone may not give us any usable clues as to his identity. Wouldn't that be frustrating.

The discovery of that pilot's skull above ground gives me some encouragement that whatever is out there has a good chance of being eventually found if it's not in a river.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

Quote

Thanks for the informative reply Jerry. I am convinced that Coopers parachute gear is out there with or without him. The gear alone may not give us any usable clues as to his identity. Wouldn't that be frustrating.

The discovery of that pilot's skull above ground gives me some encouragement that whatever is out there has a good chance of being eventually found if it's not in a river.

377

How would you look for a buried skull in the wild?
What would you key on? Any ideas?

I mean something besides calling DHS to ask if any
of their clients are missing? [edit: which isnt a bad
if you knew where to look and what population to
search. There were a few Universals even in 1971
and water (and skulls) do tend to flow down hill to
common collection points?]

[377 22]

The only thing I am expecting to be eventually found is Cooper's parachute gear. If he survived the jump, I expect he wanted to get out of the landing area and back to civilization ASAP. He'd just want to prevent the gear from being spotted in an air search. It wouldn't have made sense for him to bury it deep. That would take time and hard work better expended on egress and escape.

Human remains get scattered by animals. I think the rig would not be so tempting to scavengers, although mice like shredding canopy material to make nests.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

Quote

The only thing I am expecting to be eventually found is Cooper's parachute gear. If he survived the jump, I expect he wanted to get out of the landing area and back to civilization ASAP. He'd just want to prevent the gear from being spotted in an air search. It wouldn't have made sense for him to bury it deep. That would take time and hard work better expended on egress and escape.

Human remains get scattered by animals. I think the rig would not be so tempting to scavengers, although mice like shredding canopy material to make nests.

377

I apologise for any personal offense. Lets get back
on track...

When Jerry brought up skull(s) the first thing that
hit me was 'dental fillings' from that era (mercury
and gold) but of course Jerry is already looking for
metals -

The same for bones-limbs; the possibility of
prosthetics especially if he was ever war injured
and military.

My suggestion about the use of dogs was serious -
especially these corpse finder dogs. I saw a movie
on this clear back in the 60s using trained dingos.
It was amazing how the dogs found old corpses...
old clothing, etc.

Lastly, last night I was reading old posts especially
those by Safecracking & Ckret from the period
Jan-March 08 and several going clear back to Nov
of 07. There were a lot of good posts from that period that pertain to everything currently under
debate -

[JerryThomas 0]

Sky I do look up all the time and it is strange what you can find.I have found comoflaged arrows in trees small flare chutes in this area. I've found old whisky bottles from the 1800's many other things. But I'm still looking and will continue too. Maybe someday I'll find something pertaining to this case maybe someone else will ,either way ,I hope that it can be solved before Ralph dies. That is my Goal. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Georger: Something is still left and is not in the bottom of a stream or a river. It will be more than likely found no less than 100 ft from a stream or a river or on a ridge line. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

377: The discovery of the Skull was encouraging. However it did prove how long things can go undiscovered even after exstensive searches. In this area there are many documented cases like this. It takes a trained eye, experience and a lot of guts to negotiate this terain. Or just some avid bear Hunter that found That Skull.Hunters and Loggers in this area indure alot of hardship to accomplish there mission, I know its strange but that is just the way they are. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Georger: Your Question about a dog. Yes I did have a dog by the Name of Renny He was named after RIN TIN TIN a old western show that I enjoyed when I was a kid. Anyway I got him in 1986 He was taken to the woods north of washougal for the first time in 1987. The dog remained with me untill his death in 1998. I always took him to the woods with me.He had one problem and that was he did not like porkupines Poor guy he got speared so bad one time the Vet wanted to put him to sleep.I Refused and he lived another 8 yrs. Was one of the best compannions I ever Had. Anyway one Nite it got cloudy and dark early. And in this area you can't even see your hand in front of your face when this happens. My flashlight batteries went dead . I was at least 2 mi's from camp. Had it not been for this dog I could not made it back to camp. The Temperature droped to 20 degrees that nite and I was wet from the earlier rain. The dog was a life saver, he led me back to camp. Yes he did find old bones and other things, during my searches with him ,I still don't know how. Other than it was his nature.I do remember coments from people About how he new things and could find his way around that area as being unsual. John Cotton From the washougal Police dept. even made this coment . I only told this for one reason and that is becauase it is documented. I think he new where the camp site was he kept puting his nose in the air and folowed the sent to his next meal, which was a small bag of left over hanburger. Good dog and realy miss him Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

377 Animals and scavengers do have a tendencie to move all items with blood or other tasty matter. Your right they well not move metal they will lick it until the taste or smell is gone. Mice will use cloth ECT,for nest and foriage to make there dens But there is still large portions that will be left in tact and frayed especialy when it comes to nylon. Jerry

[georger 247]

Quote

Georger: Your Question about a dog. Yes I did have a dog by the Name of Renny He was named after RIN TIN TIN a old western show that I enjoyed when I was a kid. Anyway I got him in 1986 He was taken to the woods north of washougal for the first time in 1987. The dog remained with me untill his death in 1998. I always took him to the woods with me.He had one problem and that was he did not like porkupines Poor guy he got speared so bad one time the Vet wanted to put him to sleep.I Refused and he lived another 8 yrs. Was one of the best compannions I ever Had. Anyway one Nite it got cloudy and dark early. And in this area you can't even see your hand in front of your face when this happens. My flashlight batteries went dead . I was at least 2 mi's from camp. Had it not been for this dog I could not made it back to camp. The Temperature droped to 20 degrees that nite and I was wet from the earlier rain. The dog was a life saver, he led me back to camp. Yes he did find old bones and other things, during my searches with him ,I still don't know how. Other than it was his nature.I do remember coments from people About how he new things and could find his way around that area as being unsual. John Cotton From the washougal Police dept. even made this coment . I only told this for one reason and that is becauase it is documented. I think he new where the camp site was he kept puting his nose in the air and folowed the sent to his next meal, which was a small bag of left over hanburger. Good dog and realy miss him Jerry

Good story! Maybe its time to get another -

[skyjack71 0]

Georger stated:

Quote

My suggestion about the use of dogs was serious -
especially these corpse finder dogs. I saw a movie
on this clear back in the 60s using trained dingos.
It was amazing how the dogs found old corpses...
old clothing, etc.

Jerry stated:
Talking about his dog:

Quote

John Cotton From the washougal Police dept. even made this coment . I only told this for one reason and that is becauase it is documented. I think he new where the camp site was he kept puting his nose in the air and folowed the sent to his next meal, which was a small bag of left over hanburger. Good dog and realy miss him Jerry

I believe Jerry's answer wasn't what you were asking for - you were talking about trained cadiver dogs. It cost thousands of dollar to train them.

In Jerry's post I fail to grasp the documention. This is Jerry telling a story no different than the things I have told about what Duane said and those who assisted me on my search for the locations in 2001. I do truely believe Jerry owes me an apology for calling me a liar and for the way he treated me in that phone call. I am afraid to post for fear of Jerry going haywire.

Regarding Cooper: I was asked how much I would be willing to pay for a picture of Tina Mucklow as a child.

I would give anything to sit down and talk to her - she is the only person that might possibly be able to bring this to an end for me. Not a voice on the phone - face to face and in total privacy.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

Quote

. . . face to face and in total privacy.

For a number of reasons, I don't think that's in anybody's best interest. There should be at least two other neutral parties involved and a tape recorder so later nobody could change their stories.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[javelin1 0]

why is it important to close this case before ralph dies??

[377 22]

Jerry,

Really liked your story about Renny. Sounds like he was an exceptional dog. Good for you in ignoring the vet's advice to put him down. I really like dogs and there are others here who also do.

Why did you say that you expect DBC stuff to be found within 100 ft of a river? Are you saying that everything gets pushed down towards rivers by rain and gravity? Just want to be sure I understood what you were saying.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

. . . face to face and in total privacy.

For a number of reasons, I don't think that's in anybody's best interest. There should be at least two other neutral parties involved and a tape recorder so later nobody could change their stories.

I believe a private meeting is the only way Tina will ever subject herself to this and in her best interest. She has remained obscured and private and I for one understand why. My reason for wanting this meeting - is to have final resolutions - to be at peace and not for the purpose of exploitation.

If the exchange did not result in new information on either side then I don't need to spend my valuable time continuing to look for the other needles in the haystack. Should the meeting produce something positive that would help solve the crime - she would be the one to make the decision of going public with it or not. I do not want her placed in the position I have been in all of these yrs having every word scrutinized and criticized.

This incident in 1971 has been an emotion burden to her and may have cost her the life she may have had - just as it has affected me these past 13 yrs. I want it to be over with - regardless of the outcome.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

Jo -

One of the biggest problems your Duane story has starts at the very beginning with his death bed confession to you without any witnesses or recordings. It is the first thing in your story and it's the thing that makes most people highly skeptical because it leaves so many things open for interpretation.

Had the meeting been documented and witnessed by others it would certainly be more credible as it removes at least half of the alternative theories and interpretations.

You meeting Tina privately does absolutely nothing as far as your credibility goes. It is ONLY if it is witnessed and documented by others that it becomes valuable.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

Quote

. . . face to face and in total privacy.

For a number of reasons, I don't think that's in anybody's best interest. There should be at least two other neutral parties involved and a tape recorder so later nobody could change their stories.

I believe a private meeting is the only way Tina will ever subject herself to this and in her best interest. She has remained obscured and private and I for one understand why. My reason for wanting this meeting - is to have final resolutions - to be at peace and not for the purpose of exploitation.

If the exchange did not result in new information on either side then I don't need to spend my valuable time continuing to look for the other needles in the haystack. Should the meeting produce something positive that would help solve the crime - she would be the one to make the decision of going public with it or not. I do not want her placed in the position I have been in all of these yrs having every word scrutinized and criticized.

This incident in 1971 has been an emotion burden to her and may have cost her the life she may have had - just as it has affected me these past 13 yrs. I want it to be over with - regardless of the outcome.

Reciitivists should act quickly to get it over with,
and not prolong the ordeal. Prolongation could
result in severe consequences.

Bringing your remarks here, or announcing your
intentions here is disingenuine if you have already
decided to act. It does not excuse matters if things
go wrong.

And, talking into an open tube to hear your own
voice coming back, is not the same as getting
permission.

[georger 247]

Quote

Jo -

One of the biggest problems your Duane story has starts at the very beginning with his death bed confession to you without any witnesses or recordings. It is the first thing in your story and it's the thing that makes most people highly skeptical because it leaves so many things open for interpretation.

Had the meeting been documented and witnessed by others it would certainly be more credible as it removes at least half of the alternative theories and interpretations.

Several people who have looked into this say the Cooper infatuation began at Virginia Beach, not
at Duane Weber's deathbed.

In addition, Jo's original claim cited a witness
to Duane's death-bed remarks. (and possibly
a signed statement).





much earlier

[377 22]

Quote

Jo -

One of the biggest problems your Duane story has starts at the very beginning with his death bed confession to you without any witnesses or recordings. It is the first thing in your story and it's the thing that makes most people highly skeptical because it leaves so many things open for interpretation.

Had the meeting been documented and witnessed by others it would certainly be more credible as it removes at least half of the alternative theories and interpretations.

You meeting Tina privately does absolutely nothing as far as your credibility goes. It is ONLY if it is witnessed and documented by others that it becomes valuable.

As much as Jo would prefer that she personally conduct a DBC interview with Tina, it is better that such an interview be conducted by a NEUTRAL person, one who has no vested interest in the outcome.

Even if there are witnesses, an interview conducted by a party who has an interest in the outcome runs a high risk of influencing the witness, even unconsciously. Tina might see Jo's anguish/angst and wish to soothe it by answering in a certain way that might relieve Jo's stress.

Compassion is a wonderful human quality, but it is counterproductive in investigative interviews. The way I see it, one should do everything possible to eliminate or at least minimize emotional factors that can influence answers.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.