DB Cooper

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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That's actually from the Tao Te Ching, book number 56.
http://www.terebess.hu/...h/tao/gia.html#Kap56

More or less 600 BC.

Is there some depth to Mr. PQ heretofore never exhibited?
I'm so shallow that I thought it only applied to the project where we [redacted] three [redacted] on the [redacted] list, so no one would know that [redacted] was involved, and so the public would actually think that [redacted] were real physical manifestations. At least that's what [redacted] said and that's where [redacted] and I got the idea.

However, I did say it was an "old saying". I think 600 years is pretty old.
Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[quade 4]

I said 600 years BC, not 600 BDBC (Before DB Cooper).

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[dy8coke 0]

Hmm, Jerry gets a week time out and Snow goes missing at the same time. Maybe Snow is Jerry's more informed alt??

[georger 247]

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.... then what is the elevation of the DZ - people say it is rugged is it 1 or 2 thousand feet ASL meaning an 8-9k AGL potential exit?

Nigel99,

Give me an e-mail address (not this site PM) to send them and I will send you he following hi-res USGS TOPOs that cover the FBI original DZ:

Ariel Quadrangle North.jpg (1,867 KB)
Ariel Quadrangle South.jpg (1,741 KB)
Woodland Quadrangle North.jpg (1,929 KB)
Woodland Quadrangle South.jpg (1,958 KB)
Seamless Hot Zone North.jpg (2,698 KB)
Seamless Hot Zone South.jpg (2,629 KB)

The Ariel Quad is the East Part if the Hot Zone, The Woodland Quad is the West part of the hot zone. The seamless maps are the North and South parts of both quads.

This way you can pick a spot and know the elevation (within 40 feet). These are all I have on my laptop (I’m on the road tonight). If you need other areas, I can get them for you when I get home (Monday). I have all the USGS 1:100,000 and 1:24,000 maps of Oregon and Washington. These are much better than the MapTech Topos.

Send me an e-mail address by PM, e-mail, or post here and tell me which ones you want. I’ll send them immediately. My private e-mail is: walkertrain at hotmail dot com

This offer is extended to all.

Sluggo_Monster

By the way Sluggo, I want to publically apologise
for the KKK photo I posted in a reply to Jo - I
realise now it offended you deeply even though
my post and the photo had absolutely nothing
to do with you. You werent even in my mind when
I made that post.

I will also apologise for any remarks I made afterwards when you surfaced saying you were
upset. I certainly could not underdstand why
you were upset since the posting and the photo
had nothing to do with you, but some people are
sensitive and I guess in this case I did the wrong
thing, and Im sorry you were so upset.

Thanks,
Georger

[georger 247]

However, I did say it was an "old saying". I think 600 years is pretty old.
Sluggo_Monster

Well again Wayne I will say publically I apologise.
I had no idea it would affect you as it apparently
has, and I mean that literally. You take my breath
away. You always seem to see conspiracy where
not only is there none, but none could even be.
There is nothing I can say to something like that.

Im sorry you were upset. I did not mean this to
happen at all -

Sluggo also says Im the "schoolyard bully" here,
so I guess I need to aploogise to everypone for
that also -

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Advice:
Never air your dirty laundry in public.


Wayne?... Wayne?...WAYNE?

Passive aggressive?

ATTENTION!

Tell your neighbors (GSW & GW) I said ; "Hello!"
(That's super secret Double-Naught-Agent code)

Quote

You always seem to see conspiracy where
not only is there none, but none could even be.
There is nothing I can say to something like that.

No conspiracy in here!
So why not just say nothing and avoid embarrassment?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[skyjack71 0]

Georger - you stated:

Quote

State whatever ideas, questions, etc you have. People here will address them. That is all there
is to this - no need to worry about anything,so far as I am concerned - - -
Georger

This is an odd statement coming from Georger since he was demostrative about others missing things that had not been discussed. I mentioned a couple of the missing pieces recently - souveniers (incriminating evidence) and a happening never disclosed to the public.

If the FBI missed these things - time to regroup and talk one last time to the witnesses OR these are things the FBI kept under the table...to actually enable the identity of Cooper.

That Darn Cat is out chasing the mouse again.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

I was wondering what people's take is on the front page spread of McClatchy newspapers here in the Pacific Northwest today.

The Tacoma News Tribune and The Olympian (Olympia, WA) both ran Les Blumentahl's feature story on the Citizen Sleuth Team that has made recent history. Blumenthal is based in the DC area.

The piece covers the main points expressed in many of the TV news reports of a month ago, but only featured Tom Kaye and Carol Abrazinskas. Larry Carr played a minor role in the storyline.

No mention of testing for metal residues. or biological markers, ie: insects, algae, on the money.

The Dan Cooper comics were highlighted, and a few paragraphs discussed the electron microscope analysis on the tie pin for pollen residues. No concrete evidence was revealed.

[quade 4]

I don't know the article you're talking about, but the FBI was featuring a story almost exactly as you describe on their web site last time I checked. You might wanna check that site and see how much effort was actually put into the article you're talking about.
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/march09/dbcooper031709.html

If I know local news (and I kinda do), it sounds like the article probably is what we like to call "lazy reporting."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SchlitznGrins 0]

I notice in the handwritten flight crew notes they say DBC was about 6'1" 175# with black hair age 50. Now, given the fact that he was also a chain smoker, what are the odds he is still alive? I mean he would be 88 years old.

lets say he was 40 at the time of the Hijack...That would leave him at 78 years old today. Much more possible that he could still be among us.

I keep trying to put myself into his mind...It would be pretty hard for me not to leave something behind that linked me to the crime. I mean a lot of the world looks at him as a Cult Hero...I know the FBI and Flight crew beg to differ!

[Orange1 0]

Bruce, why do you keep on calling Cooper "Danny"?

From the FBI link Quade posted, it appears Carr has modified his theory since he first came on these forums.

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Agent Carr’s Theory

Larry Carr thinks it’s highly unlikely that Cooper survived the jump. “But he came from somewhere and from someone. And that is what we want to know.” Based on what he has learned so far, here is Carr’s profile of Cooper:

He served in the Air Force and at some point was stationed in Europe, where he may have become interested in the Dan Cooper comic books.


He worked as a cargo loader on planes, giving him knowledge and experience in the aviation industry, which was in its infancy in 1971.


Because his job required him to throw cargo out of planes, Cooper would have worn an emergency parachute in case he fell out. This would have provided him with working knowledge of parachutes but not necessarily the functional knowledge to survive the jump he made.


He may have come from the East Coast, but taken an aviation job in Seattle when he got out of the military. It’s possible he lost his job during an economic downturn in the aviation industry in 1970-71. If he was a loner with little or no family, “nobody would have missed him” after he was gone.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Larry Carrs profile is ridiculous:

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Larry Carr thinks it’s highly unlikely that Cooper survived the jump.

Quote

He served in the Air Force and at some point was stationed in Europe, where he may have become interested in the Dan Cooper comic books.

Quote

He worked as a cargo loader on planes, giving him knowledge and experience in the aviation industry, which was in its infancy in 1971.

Quote

Because his job required him to throw cargo out of planes, Cooper would have worn an emergency parachute in case he fell out. This would have provided him with working knowledge of parachutes but not necessarily the functional knowledge to survive the jump he made.

Quote

He may have come from the East Coast, but taken an aviation job in Seattle when he got out of the military. It’s possible he lost his job during an economic downturn in the aviation industry in 1970-71. .

Had Cooper worked with the aviation industry within the Seattle area between 1970-71 - someone would have ID'ed him early on.

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If he was a loner with little or no family, “nobody would have missed him” after he was gone.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Georger, do you remember how insistent you were that Jack Sheehan wrote the Las Vegan Articles - and I told you that he only edited them and they were copywrite by Byron Brown (son of James Brown)? I think you will find this article by Sheehan very interesting.

This is from a Newpaper article published in the early part of 2008.


Jack Sheehan names names as the FBI tries to solve the mystery of D.B. Cooper
By Jack Sheehan

Tue, Jan 22, 2008 (2 a.m.)

I was intrigued last month when the FBI announced it was reopening the investigation into the hijacking of a Northwest Airlines 727 jet in November 1971.

Special Agent Larry Carr in Seattle is leading the investigation of the legendary and oft-romanticized D.B. Cooper skyjacking in hope of solving one of the most intriguing mysteries of the past century. Stories have been circulating recently on the Internet and across AP wires suggesting that anyone with information about the crime should come forward.

Well, I’m coming forward today, but first I’d like to know, in the interests of my young children’s college educations, how much the reward is. I mean, I’m a self-employed writer with mouths to feed, so how ’bout it?

• • •

Who kidnapped Charles Lindbergh’s baby? What happened to Amelia Earhart? Where is Jimmy Hoffa buried? Did Lee Harvey Oswald really kill JFK? Who killed the Hollywood starlet known as the Black Dahlia? Did Marilyn Monroe die by her own hand, or was she killed? Who was the mystery lover in Carly Simon’s hit song “You’re So Vain”? And who was the man mythologized as D.B. Cooper, and did he really get off scot-free with most of the $200,000 in $20 bills he parachuted with into the stormy night somewhere between Seattle and Reno?

Those unsolved mysteries have generated countless books and movies and provided fodder for thousands of hours of TV for insomniacs, who never tire of revisiting these questions.

When former FBI agent and government official Mark Felt revealed himself in 2005 to be the man called “Deep Throat,” whose insider information kept Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein hot on the trail of the Watergate burglary story and led to the demise of Richard Nixon’s presidency, the airwaves ate up the story for a solid two weeks, but then quickly lost interest.

Because the riddle had been solved, all the air went out of the story in the blink of an eye. That’s because it’s more fun for the American public to keep guessing and providing plausible answers to these mysteries than it is to actually be provided the solution.

Carly Simon has refused to divulge her vain lover -- be it Warren Beatty or Mick Jagger or Cat Stevens -- for more than 30 years. She teases interrogators with unhelpful clues such as “His name has both an A and an E in it.” And she says, “If I name him, people will quit asking me about it, and that wouldn’t be any fun.”

Knowing the answer is a quick fix. Pondering the unknown is a lifetime addiction.

• • •

To do my American duty, and perhaps add to the fun of chasing down a mystery that more than likely will never be solved, I give this name to FBI agent Larry Carr: Bryant “Jack” Coffelt. That’s who I believe to be the real D.B. Cooper.

Here’s why I think Coffelt is their man:

In the early 1980s a handsome young writer in his mid-30s named Byron Brown -- a “separated at birth” clone of actor Dennis Quaid -- approached me with what he said was definitive proof that a man he knew, a former prison buddy of his father’s named Jack Coffelt, was indeed the hijacker. Brown didn’t just present a hunch; he provided me with more than 200 pages of careful research he had compiled over the previous eight years. After dissecting Brown’s findings for several weeks and grilling him repeatedly in an attempt to shoot holes in his findings, I eventually became convinced that his conclusions were valid.

We condensed his book-length findings into a 12,000-word, two-part article that ran in October and November 1983 in a magazine I edited called Las Vegan. Subsequently, the Associated Press interviewed Brown and me and ran an international wire story on Brown’s findings, which opened the media floodgates.

Over the ensuing several weeks, Brown and I must have done 30 to 50 newspaper, TV and radio interviews from coast to coast. We were even screened by producers of the popular “Phil Donahue Show,” wondering whether we’d be willing to fly to Chicago for an appearance. But as the days passed our information got so much media exposure that Donahue eventually thought our story had “gone stale.”

I was included in all these interviews as the editor who bought the story and was willing to stand behind its conclusions, but of course Brown was the one who had to answer all the difficult questions. Brown never once buckled on his findings, was never shown to be careless or unprofessional in his reporting, and made believers of nearly all who interrogated him.

Though I’d need all the pages of today’s Sun to include every piece of Brown’s compelling evidence, here are a few of the morsels he presented in his articles:

• In 1974, Brown and his father made a trip with Coffelt to the skyjacker’s likely landing spot in the Northwest to look for the backpack with money that Coffelt claimed had been blown from his shoulder grip when he left the aircraft. A beacon light, parts of an old Jeep and residue of parachute cord, all of which Coffelt had described to Brown, were found in the exact locations he had pinpointed on a map before their expedition.

• Northwest Airlines stewardess Florence Schaffner, who was handed the ransom note from D.B. Cooper and spent most of the flight seated next to him, had rejected dozens of photos and composite drawings of potential suspects that had been presented to her by the FBI. But when Brown tracked down Schaffner in Hawaii years later and showed her Coffelt’s photos, she gasped and said, “Oh my God! Where did you get those? I never thought I would see that face again! It’s him! My God, it’s him!”

• Seattle attorney George LeBissoniere, who sat three seats from Cooper on that fateful night, also positively identified him as the skyjacker from those photos. LeBissoniere then added a curious comment. “I identified those same pictures for the FBI six weeks after the skyjacking,” he said.

It was known that Coffelt had been a government informant on several high-profile cases in the years before 1971, and some speculate that, to avoid compromising the work he did for the CIA, his identity as the man known as D.B. Cooper has been kept hidden by the government.

So there you have it. Jack Coffelt is your boy. Send my reward money care of the Las Vegas Sun.
I do not have the link to this article, but it was published in the Las Vegas Sun.

And while I’m debunking, I’ll give you 5-1 odds that Warren Beatty is the subject of Simon’s hit song. (The only other person who knows for certain is TV producer Dick Ebersol, who bought exclusive rights to the information at a Martha’s Vineyard charity auction in 2003. But he had to sign a confidentiality agreement, so he’s not talking.)

[JerryThomas 0]

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Larry Carrs profile is ridiculous:

Quote

Larry Carr thinks it’s highly unlikely that Cooper survived the jump.

Quote

He served in the Air Force and at some point was stationed in Europe, where he may have become interested in the Dan Cooper comic books.

Quote

He worked as a cargo loader on planes, giving him knowledge and experience in the aviation industry, which was in its infancy in 1971.

Quote

Because his job required him to throw cargo out of planes, Cooper would have worn an emergency parachute in case he fell out. This would have provided him with working knowledge of parachutes but not necessarily the functional knowledge to survive the jump he made.

Quote

He may have come from the East Coast, but taken an aviation job in Seattle when he got out of the military. It’s possible he lost his job during an economic downturn in the aviation industry in 1970-71. .

Had Cooper worked with the aviation industry within the Seattle area between 1970-71 - someone would have ID'ed him early on.

Quote

If he was a loner with little or no family, “nobody would have missed him” after he was gone.

[JerryThomas 0]

Hi! Paul Quaid: how have you been. Things here are fine. Got my new Backhoe stuck in the creek finally got it out today. I'm building a road down to the creek anyway almost done with the road. It's fun learning new things. Construction is fun if it's done right otherwise you get embarsed. Then you have to ask your neighber to come pull you out with his three wheeler. Jerry

[Orange1 0]

I think it's ridiculous that people with outlandish theories of their own call Carr's theory ridiculous.
Anyway a bunch of us are clearly leaning towards at least some of the elements of Carr's theory - although i think "we" see smokejumper as more an interesting angle than cargo kicker perhaps?

Those things aside, I am intrigued by Carr's "may have come from the East Coast" statement. Presumably he has good reason for saying that. Does anyone have any light to shed on why Larry said that?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[quade 4]

Try not to get stuck any more. While you certainly are welcome to call all the friends you'd like to try to get you back on the road, remember how you got there in the first place and avoid making the same mistakes, because sometimes, your friends don't have the kind of pull you think they do and next time you may find yourself sitting in that ditch for a lot longer.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange 1 Sorry I have been sitting on the sideline's However I have read all the post Your doing a great job dealing with all things concerned on this forum. So is Georger and Quaid. Snowmann Welcome Back How Have you Been. Jerry

[quade 4]

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Those things aside, I am intrigued by Carr's "may have come from the East Coast" statement. Presumably he has good reason for saying that. Does anyone have any light to shed on why Larry said that?

Has anyone ever stated he spoke with an accent of any type? Maybe used a colloquialism like "soda" or "pop" as opposed to "Coke".

http://popvssoda.com:2998/

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JerryThomas 0]

Paul I was serious It realy Happened I was trying to build a road down to my creek. My neighbor Brought his Big Bucket loader. It's the three wheel type and weighs 14,000lbs And loads a yd of dirt in the bucket . He bought it from the State of Oregon. A year ago. Any way he pulled me out and I was able to continue my quest of building the road. There was no pun involved in that post. It was completely legit. Jerry

[377 22]

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Quote

Those things aside, I am intrigued by Carr's "may have come from the East Coast" statement. Presumably he has good reason for saying that. Does anyone have any light to shed on why Larry said that?

Has anyone ever stated he spoke with an accent of any type? Maybe used a colloquialism like "soda" or "pop" as opposed to "Coke".

Maybe DBC's polite manner ruled out the Left Coast. The use of "Miss" seems atypical in the California social vocabulary of 71. My Dad used "Miss" and he was from the East Coast. Other Dads seemed to use "Ma'am."

Nothing solid to back this up, just musings.

Welcome back Jerry.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

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Paul I was serious It realy Happened I was trying to build a road down to my creek. My neighbor Brought his Big Bucket loader. It's the three wheel type and weighs 14,000lbs And loads a yd of dirt in the bucket . He bought it from the State of Oregon. A year ago. Any way he pulled me out and I was able to continue my quest of building the road. There was no pun involved in that post. It was completely legit. Jerry

[BruceSmith 3]

Orange1.

I think I call DB Cooper "Danny", and "Danny Boy," for a couple of reasons:

1. To me, it makes him more personal, and brings him closer to the conversation, ie: "Hey, Danny, have a seat and sit down. We were just talking about you....for the past 394 pages of this thread!"

2. I feel an increasing familiarity with him after six months of research. Some days, I don't eat because I'm so excited by the search. Why not give the object of my energies a nickname. In some ways, he's become a friend.

3. I'm teasing him, and stirring the pot. He introduced the moniker Dan Cooper, ala DB Cooper, to the world. Now, I'm making light of it. If Dan Cooper is reading this post, maybe it'll tickle his funny bone and he'll email me.

4. Heck, if folks here can call me Cousin Brucie, I want to get in the swing of things and crack a few jokes, too!

Just out of curiosity, O-1, why do you ask?

[Orange1 0]

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Quote

Those things aside, I am intrigued by Carr's "may have come from the East Coast" statement. Presumably he has good reason for saying that. Does anyone have any light to shed on why Larry said that?

Has anyone ever stated he spoke with an accent of any type? Maybe used a colloquialism like "soda" or "pop" as opposed to "Coke".
http://popvssoda.com:2998/

He was described as having "no" accent by which we assume a "generic" American accent. I am no expert in this at all, the discussion on this a while ago seemed to take it he was from the midwest (I think) on account of the accent story. Like I said I can have no opinion on this (well I do actually, but with no "weight" behind it , my interpretation of "no" American accent clearly being different from people who live there - I actually would describe an east coast accent that way!).

377's point about "miss" may be of interest.

Bruce, because to me it sounded like you were trying to belittle him by use of that word. I just wondered why, especially after you reintroduced the aspect of pyschology

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

New Developement:

Coffelt was brought back up for a reason - I could feel it in my bones (Ole Man Authur). Recieved a very interesting phone call today and an unexpected email.

We may have found the connection between Cooper and Coffelt...besides the obvious (Joplin and Lawrence). I first started in on Coffelt in 1997, but Himmelsbach dismissed him and actually Coffelt was way too old to be Cooper and physically not able to have done the jump at that time in his life. Just because he was not Cooper didn't mean he wasn't involved.

Information about Coffelt that the FBI thought had gone away forever - has risen from beneath a mass of research (Not Mine) - NO one could be more shocked than I was with this information today...WE may have found the links - Coffelt, Cooper, Brown and Weber...and other crime connections involving 2 of the above. If this proofs out - I believe the truth about Cooper is forthcoming in the next few months.

SLOPPY FBI work investigating the background of WEBER...maybe! Unexperience FBI agents...maybe!
Insufficient background on Coffelt - maybe? Overlooked background on Weber - maybe? FBI agents not connecting the dots between other suspects and Weber.

I gave the FBI several names yrs ago - Thomas, Griffin, Gunn, Wong, Harrison, Knutsen and many many more.. Passing acqaintances, business associates, prison buddies --- the FBI did not check out the list of names I provided, although since then they did acquire the files of one man (a writer) from his widow because they felt the files contained CIA informant information. Duane and this man knew each other - they were stomping the same grounds in CA in the 40's.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber