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georger 247
QuoteI stil don't get the logic.. what the reason for the fake hijack was?
Then again, logic is never the preserve of conspiracy theorists. Or those of .... certain persuasions, but let me not bring speakers' corner type topics in here.
Again, Archie thinks the Cooper Hijacking was a TEST.
Like a school fire alarm drill.
He says there had been hijackings, there was a
hijacking one week before the Cooper event, and it
was obvious there were going to be more hijackings,
so the government and NWA decided to conduct a TEST. They picked the day before Thanksgiving.
They sent a guy on a plane with a fake bomb and
demands ... and he landed at Reno with the plane
and was escorted off and given a steak dinner!
Archie thinks the crew on 305 may never have been
informed what was really going on. But he thinks NWA
and some in the FBI, and some in the military knew.
Archie says: "It's obvious" and that's a quote.
Orange1 0
what and who were they testing? NWA? the bank? the FBI? ATC? mucklow and schaffner?
school fire drills are so that the people involved know what to do. it makes no sense to draw parallels, unless you believe that the same crew were at threat of a hijack.
and why go to all the lengths to fake a jump, when that was an extremely rare form of hijacking? we've found a handful of skydiving hijackers out of literally hundreds and hundreds of hijackings. doesn't make sense for a "test" or "drill" type scenario. i could go on, but it is all a(nother) waste of time.
in my opinion, that theory raises far more questions than answers.
then again, i believe in evolution.
quade 4
QuoteAgain, Archie thinks the Cooper Hijacking was a TEST.
Like a school fire alarm drill.
Very Interesting Theory
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
georger 247
Quote..and the reason for keeping it all a secret afterwards??
what and who were they testing? NWA? the bank? the FBI? ATC? mucklow and schaffner?
school fire drills are so that the people involved know what to do. it makes no sense to draw parallels, unless you believe that the same crew were at threat of a hijack.
and why go to all the lengths to fake a jump, when that was an extremely rare form of hijacking? we've found a handful of skydiving hijackers out of literally hundreds and hundreds of hijackings. doesn't make sense for a "test" or "drill" type scenario. i could go on, but it is all a(nother) waste of time.
in my opinion, that theory raises far more questions than answers.
then again, i believe in evolution.
Your reaction: the same as mine, initially. And fact
is I did propose this theoretical option earlier (months ago). Why would they conduct a test like this in the way they did?: for the very reasons Archie cites. And in fact its a fairly low-risk scenario given
other facts we know, especially when you have Nyrop giving very strict orders: DO AS HE REQUESTS!
Everyone did precisely as Nyrop ordered to minimise
the event, and that scenario worked flawlessly.
(What if they had headed out toward the ocean
with this Cooper, instead of V23, what then of this
was a test?)
And whether the Archie Hypothesis is true or not,
a lot of people believe it is for all kinds of reasons.
It represents a beadrock point of view, and as a
theoretical option deserves consideration, because
quite frankly it is no further away from the "outlines"
we have been dealing with for months, just as Labrys
said. (Ive always liked Labrys. He cut right through
things).
Sluggo and 377 and Orange:
I read the post you made, but what you suggest about my research - is already being done - not by or for anyone in this forum.
The first steps have been taken - verifying some of what I have claimed and what they personally have come across in their own research and why it involves me.
The cost of what you suggested is massive and not something I can afford - plus filtering out personal things that are part of these files - There are somethings that are meant to be private...can you even imaging reading thru - 10,000 pages and documents approx.
A great deal has been going on that NO one in this forum knows about and I am NOT at liberty to divulge at this time.
377 - I do not mean to tease anyone about anything. When I put something out there such as the pic of the little girl (let me assure you it is a girl) - I am looking for the opinions of the forum - you guys are the hardest critics out there.
What I need to put Duane in a chute is something the FBI will not do for me - or anyone. It is something that is not accessible to the general public. Duane was in the company of smokejumpers (but it will take the FBI to verify this). I have repeatedly asked the FBI to run 2 names and check the SS on a certain person - this person could not be in 2 places at one time - I found relatives of the man who told me point blank that the man was not their relative. I believe that from 1945 to 1949 Duane Weber worked and lived under another name and had a child with a woman under that name hence - why I can't find the daughter.
His prison records seem to have wiped out this woman and she is only mentioned in letters to his mother and the family was aware of this woman and child. She did therefore exist and so did the child. Since the woman from the sounds of the letter - was aware of Duane being in prison and had to have known his real name (note this prison record gives an AKA which Carr claimed was a mispelling). The file specifically states AKA. This is the same prison where he was sent to another prison for 1 day in CA. The FBI is the only organization available to access the SS for other name I requested. Carr declined nor told his superiors of this urgent request. What would be his moitive in that action? Self-indugence. When I am gone from this earth he can claim he found Cooper.
The people helping me - found more connections to another suspect than I had found. If this turns out to be true - it will be WHY Duane recieve the commutation and had priviliges NOT given to others...and why his Jefferson record is so obscured.
The FBI refused to provide copies when I asked. I requested this in 1998 and the FBI had accessed it in 1996. Note that after 30 yrs the detailed records are destroyed and therefore NOW all that is available to the public are the basic recorded file...yet the FBI had the detailed file or it was NEVER available to them.
Georger: you are the only ONE who noticed the background I put that picture on. The page was from "the book" and I enlarged the little girl and obsured much of the page on purpose. Yes, Georger there is water damage on the lower portions of that book.
On the back side of the GOLD cover there is a unusual stain.
I need your expertise in this - can wet money left pressed against a wet book leave some of it's color on the book cover. I have looked at this thru a magnifiying glass and cannot see any images. There are pieces of the book which have crumbled away - I would be glad to send you a sample to compare wth whatever you need to compare it with. I can scan the back of the book - so you can see what I am referring to. (I prefer to send this to an actual address - I can be discret when I need to be.)
This book and the pic in it may have NOTHING to do with Cooper - but it sure has something to do with the other items that came into existence at that time...except the other items showed no damage as though they had been stored in a bank vault.
As for the Mouse story - there is a GOOD reason for that...I guess that one is a "tease" because it is a question that haunts me. Duane's eruption in that last yr. when I jokingly teased him about the ears - He had become very frail and thin (seemed so small) - so his ears seemed more prominent - plus his hair not growing and being very close and thin only exaggerated this. The fact that in that special drawer was a special mouse - it had some kind of meaning to him - I don't even know how old it is.
This might answer some of the questions and I couldn't remember them all - just don't feel like spending a lot of time on the computer lately.
The bank bag - WHAT I saw on that bank bag - is only my word - hence of no value...it is just one of the reason I know Duane had something to do with Cooper or he was Cooper as he claimed.
Yes, I have presented my case for “Collins/Weber as Cooper” poorly, but I am not a trained investigator nor writer and I have limited funds with which to search. I haven't been able to get anyone to understand what I could see and that makes for the incoherent ramblings. I know what I am trying to say - I throw the things out there as I remember them - and I am 95% acurrate in these things.
Because I am not able to make my thoughts understood and have no proof of my memories - and if no one makes a concerted effort to put these things in order, the public will never know who Cooper was - Most of it died with Duane because I didn't listen and wasn't smart enough to understand what he was telling me. If I could go back to day one in the hospital - I would give my life to be able to go back to that day and ask the right questions and ask for proof and what I should do with the information...BUT, I didn't know who Dan Cooper was.
I can't ask a dead man questions as much as I want to. I curse the day he told me who he was and the say I found out who Dan Cooper was - it has destroyed my life or what it could have been.
georger 247

On the back side of the GOLD cover there is a unusual stain.
I need your expertise in this - can wet money left pressed against a wet book leave some of it's color on the book cover. I have looked at this thru a magnifiying glass and cannot see any images. There are pieces of the book which have crumbled away - I would be glad to send you a sample to compare wth whatever you need to compare it with. I can scan the back of the book - so you can see what I am referring to. (I prefer to send this to an actual address - I can be discret when I need to be.)
This book and the pic in it may have NOTHING to do with Cooper - but it sure has something to do with the other items that came into existence at that time...except the other items showed no damage as though they had been stored in a bank vault.
Quote: Let me be specific about this.
The nature of a stain can be determined.
If money had been in contact with the book
and both wet, the money might have left an
impression and certain elemental residues (Fe
and Titanium Dioxide...). It depends on the
length of time the two were in contact, pressure,
chemical properties of the two items as well
as solvency of the wetting agent (water).
You might prove money had been in contact with
the book but that does not prove it was Cooper
money. You might even be able to see enough of
an impression to specify denomination ($20 bill,
$1.00 bill etc) but again that does not prove it
had anything to do with Cooper or Cooper money.
I seriously doubt there would be enough of an impression to see any serial number, for example.
I would have to have the whole book cover, not
just some sample.
One thing you can do yourself is get someone
who has a UV light (ultra violet black lamp) and
see if any impression from a bill is visible on the
cover. A good stamp collector-dealer or Numismatist
in your area might be able to do this for you, quickly.
A good Numismatist dealer (money collector dealer) would probably be best because they are used to evaluating paper and paper money and have all
the equipment needed to do so ...
The person doing any tests SHOULD NOT use
any chemicals or sprays to make this test, but
use only various kinds of light to make the examination-
and he can photograph what is found. You want
to avoid using any chemicals during these tests to
avoid contamination of the cover -
Put the book COVER SIDE UP in a clean plastic
or paper bag in a box, in the meantime. Avoid
any pressure on the cover side that is to be
examined -
Thats my advice at the moment.
QuoteSomething strange has happened. Two weeks ago a lurker at this Forum began communicating with me.
Let's call him/her Archie (he claims to be a bonafide
Archaeologist but on inspection he runs a religious
based counseling? operation and that is all I know).
Archie thinks 'we' are all wasting our time. Archie
says 'you (meaning we) have accomplished nothing
that "was not already known in newspapers" '. And,
'There never will be anything new discovered because,
he never left the plane'.
Archie is expressing a point of view we have never
addressed, quite frankly. I expressed the idea here
months ago but only as a theoretical option. That
is the view that: "Cooper never left the plane. There
never was a real hijacking. The whole thing was a systems test, in response to an increased frequency
of hijackings one of which had occurred just a week
before the supposed Cooper hijacking of #305".
And anyone who thinks otherwise is only revealing
deep personal issues (in addition to being 'short between the ears').
Archie is not sure who-all was in on this test, but he
is convinced it was a test, and he says the sum total
of all evidence suggests it was a test, due mainly
to the palpable lack of any evidence after the fact,
and the fact no one was caught - because there was
nobody to catch!QuoteDZ, response to “Archie;” flight 305 was a test.
Georger, I find “Archie’s” hypothesis resonates with me. I’ve been wondering, and I’ve posted my speculations, on how and why Flight 305 might have been a test or a simulation.
Do I have proof? Nope. But, I keep pecking away at the fringes of the CIA, FBI and MKULTRA; but I’ve got nothing concrete so far regarding any connection to Cooper.
Nevertheless, what I do have is my personal inquisitiveness and imagination. I’ve taken those capacities, added the facts as I know them, and tried to form a comprehensive, coherent narrative as to what happened and why.
Bottom Line: Can we elucidate any motivations, or establish any possible trace of identity by asking: What kind of guy was DB Cooper? Can we find any link to a controlled test or simulation from DB Cooper’s personality and behavior?
Clues: Came from nowhere and returned to nowhere, seemingly
Well-planned crime and execution, with many original elements.
Fearless or unconcerned with high risk – i.e.: rainy jump at night in November with an unforgiving NB-8, wearing loafers and a thin raincoat.
Qualities of desperation
Quiet, gentlemanly demeanor; but explosive outburst reported with re-fueling snafu.
Child-like response to seeing the money.
Willing to blow people up.
Performing on a big stage: narcissistic?
Savvy - resisted Tina’s probes
Add to this the twenty other DB Cooper style hijackings in the next 8 months.
Add again, the CIA’s usage of 727s to jump agents and push cargo throughout SE Asia.
Add further, the CIA’s mind control program running concurrently and spending 6% of the agency’s budget, including the outright torture of American and Canadian citizens under the auspice of mental health treatment and research.
georger 247
QuoteDZ, response to “Archie;” flight 305 was a test.
Georger, I find “Archie’s” hypothesis resonates with me. I’ve been wondering, and I’ve posted my speculations, on how and why Flight 305 might have been a test or a simulation.
Do I have proof? Nope. But, I keep pecking away at the fringes of the CIA, FBI and MKULTRA; but I’ve got nothing concrete so far regarding any connection to Cooper.
Serious question: are you Archie? No need to be
shy.
But, I can resonate with where you're coming from.
Have you ever considered if the case were wide
open or if solved ad we had a conclusion, then we
all would be saying: "ah -ha! I knew it all along.
Makes sense". I think the Cooper case is a lot like
that.
If we could find Sluggo's missing link, all things would connect.
There is one thread that seems to run right down
the middle of this whole case - a lack of crucial
documented evidence. Into that void you can
pour a whole universe and many will look for a
Creator.
QuoteBottom Line: Can we elucidate any motivations, or establish any possible trace of identity by asking: What kind of guy was DB Cooper? Can we find any link to a controlled test or simulation from DB Cooper’s personality and behavior?
Clues: Came from nowhere and returned to nowhere, seemingly
Well-planned crime and execution, with many original elements.
Fearless or unconcerned with high risk – i.e.: rainy jump at night in November with an unforgiving NB-8, wearing loafers and a thin raincoat. Qualities of desperation
Quiet, gentlemanly demeanor; but explosive outburst reported with re-fueling snafu. Child-like response to seeing the money. Willing to blow people up. Performing on a big stage: narcissistic? Savvy - resisted Tina’s probes

Well-planned crime and execution, with many original elements
This is how he sold insurance -plan and execute - improvise if need be.
Fearless or unconcerned with high risk. A man had insulted me at a bar in CO, when I tried to get thru to the restroom - all I said was excuse me. Duane asked me why I didn't go to the bathroom - and I told him the man wouldn't let me pass and what he said. Duane got up and went outside to the car and came back with a budge in his leather jacket. Duane had spoke to the musician when he came back into the bar - he was a friend of ours (why we went there). Suddenly he started playing a song Duane requested (for the love of me I can't remember the title right now).
It was about dying in a Gun fight in a bar.
Duane then sat back down at the bar with me and glared across a long room at this man. Only brief moments later this young man comes up to us and says "Mame, I apologize - I had too much to drink and Sir I am sorry I insulted your wife - I don't want any trouble and I am going home." Duane put his his hand on the young man's shoulder and said "Son, I think that would be a GOOD IDEA" very firmly.
After the man left - Duane pulled out this huge screwdriver he had retrieve from the car. The bar was roaring!. The musician and his wife this was their last night at this bar in I believe Greely) as they were leaving to travel the country in their motor home. Around Christmas we recieved a pakage with the return address of "AnyWhere, USA). When we opened it - inside was a screw driver (not as large) dipped in gold paint. On the handle was their names " Rick and Elaine". I still have that screw driver.
Quiet, gentlemanly demeanor; but explosive outburst reported with re-fueling snafu. I guess that is the one that gave me goose bumps. He seldom responded in anger, but when he did his point was well taken.
Child-like response to seeing the money. I have posted a picture of one of these child like gleeful moments.
Savvy - resisted Tina’s probes. I wrote a story about that and then deleted it, because it would be an invasion and private issue regarding someone besides myself or Duane. Let's just say he could take a difficult situation and stage it in a manner that was firm and to the point.
He resisted Tina's probes.
Just as he resisted mine over the yrs - make a simple generic reply and change the subject...he was GOOD at that. WHY I never knew anything about his past he didn't want me to know.
It had been on the shelf for yrs but that stain was on it when he put the book in my collection. The impression is the size of a bill but I see absolutely nothing to indicate it might be the ink from a bill - I am not sure the ink they use could come off unless part of the bill stuck to the book and he scraped it off.
Like I said this is probably insignificant, but I would like to have it looked at. I have crumbs of one of pages in a separate plastic bag. Probably just came out of a storage room that got wet - except the origin of both books is unique (opposite ends of the country). These 2 books maybe entirely unrelated,..just was odd that when I pulled the one out to look at with the little girl in it - he told me to take care of it - it was like a "treasure " to him. Odd for a man to have a specific attachment to that particular type of book - it did not make sense. Hard to say if it was the book or the photo or both. One of the books originated in the Northwest - Or, Wa, CA and Ut.
georger 247
QuoteI already had it in a plastic bag, but not by itself - will do that now.
It had been on the shelf for yrs but that stain was on it when he put the book in my collection. The impression is the size of a bill but I see absolutely nothing to indicate it might be the ink from a bill - I am not sure the ink they use could come off unless part of the bill stuck to the book and he scraped it off.
Like I said this is probably insignificant, but I would like to have it looked at. I have crumbs of one of pages in a separate plastic bag. Probably just came out of a storage room that got wet - except the origin of both books is unique (opposite ends of the country). These 2 books maybe entirely unrelated,..just was odd that when I pulled the one out to look at with the little girl in it - he told me to take care of it - it was like a "treasure " to him. Odd for a man to have a specific attachment to that particular type of book - it did not make sense. Hard to say if it was the book or the photo or both. One of the books originated in the Northwest - Or, Wa, CA and Ut.
Just make sure its dry before you bag it. A paper grocery bag would be fine. Store it in a dry place
since you are there in Florida. If you have a cedar
chest or a cedar closet store it there. (Cedar closets
are one the best inventions of Mankind)
Just curious. You said the book is 'gold' colored,
artificial gold foil on the face of outside covers?
The money was sticking to that gold face?
I looked at your photo again and it looks like
the book is a plastic ringed binder? Im a little
confused what kind of binding this is. Give us a
shot of the binder cover if you can, where the
money was stuck or impressed?
Just looking for details. But taking it to a numismatist
to examine still stands if its worth spending time on.
Orange1 0
So basically Jo's answer to Sluggo's proposal is "no"?
(what a surprise)
I still don't get the rationale for any "test". Bruce, you mention the 727 airdrops... all that stuff had already been done by the time of the hijacking, so the hijacking (or purported hijacking) couldn't have been a dry run for any of that. Even with all your theories about the CIA, I still don't see it satisfactorily explained how this fits in, other than "they do nefarious secret stuff so why not this too"?
No-one has satisfactorily explained the rationale of this yet, as far as I'm concerned. If it was a simple test to see how the airline etc responded, why choose that airline and that flight? What was it meant to prove? Who exactly was in on it and who wasn't? Why would the CIA be involved in something that would clearly be an FBI issue with no national security concerns? etc etc etc etc...??????
IIRC someone mentioned a court case between NWA and their insurer over this. How does that fit into a test?
[Personally, I think some people have been watching too many "Prison Break" episodes, although the UK probably has the drop on government conspiracy themes. Heaven help us if anyone here starts watching BBC on a regular basis ]
quade 4
QuoteGeorger for once someone other than myself has finally spoke up and given a reality check to all I thank you for that, I"m not sure what I can post on this forum I hope this Post doesen't get me kicked off again. I don't Think Paul likes me too much I think that He thinks Jo walks On water. That still dose't change the fact that truth is better than fiction. Jerry
Jerry, going by your last statement, I don't think you have a clue as to what I think.
Let me try make it clear. Everyone is welcome to discuss as long as people follow the rules of the web site.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
Quote
QuoteDZ, response to “Archie;” flight 305 was a test.
Georger, I find “Archie’s” hypothesis resonates with me. I’ve been wondering, and I’ve posted my speculations, on how and why Flight 305 might have been a test or a simulation.
Do I have proof? Nope. But, I keep pecking away at the fringes of the CIA, FBI and MKULTRA; but I’ve got nothing concrete so far regarding any connection to Cooper.
Serious question: are you Archie? No need to be
shy.Quote
Nope, I'm not Archie; I'm just your Cousin Brucie.
Shout Out to Archie: I'd like to know more about your point of view, Archie. Why not post your hypothesis here?
Quote
QuoteBottom Line: Can we elucidate any motivations, or establish any possible trace of identity by asking: What kind of guy was DB Cooper? Can we find any link to a controlled test or simulation from DB Cooper’s personality and behavior?
Clues: Came from nowhere and returned to nowhere, seemingly
Well-planned crime and execution, with many original elements.
Fearless or unconcerned with high risk – i.e.: rainy jump at night in November with an unforgiving NB-8, wearing loafers and a thin raincoat. Qualities of desperation
Quiet, gentlemanly demeanor; but explosive outburst reported with re-fueling snafu. Child-like response to seeing the money. Willing to blow people up. Performing on a big stage: narcissistic? Savvy - resisted Tina’s probesIf that can be considered a profile for Cooper - it is down the line with Weber, but I am sure the FBI and the forum would say NAY, but they didn't know him..
Well-planned crime and execution, with many original elements
This is how he sold insurance -plan and execute - improvise if need be.
Fearless or unconcerned with high risk. A man had insulted me at a bar in CO, when I tried to get thru to the restroom - all I said was excuse me. Duane asked me why I didn't go to the bathroom - and I told him the man wouldn't let me pass and what he said. Duane got up and went outside to the car and came back with a budge in his leather jacket. Duane had spoke to the musician when he came back into the bar - he was a friend of ours (why we went there). Suddenly he started playing a song Duane requested (for the love of me I can't remember the title right now).
It was about dying in a Gun fight in a bar.
Duane then sat back down at the bar with me and glared across a long room at this man. Only brief moments later this young man comes up to us and says "Mame, I apologize - I had too much to drink and Sir I am sorry I insulted your wife - I don't want any trouble and I am going home." Duane put his his hand on the young man's shoulder and said "Son, I think that would be a GOOD IDEA" very firmly.
After the man left - Duane pulled out this huge screwdriver he had retrieve from the car. The bar was roaring!. The musician and his wife this was their last night at this bar in I believe Greely) as they were leaving to travel the country in their motor home. Around Christmas we recieved a pakage with the return address of "AnyWhere, USA). When we opened it - inside was a screw driver (not as large) dipped in gold paint. On the handle was their names " Rick and Elaine". I still have that screw driver.
Quiet, gentlemanly demeanor; but explosive outburst reported with re-fueling snafu. I guess that is the one that gave me goose bumps. He seldom responded in anger, but when he did his point was well taken.
Child-like response to seeing the money. I have posted a picture of one of these child like gleeful moments.
Savvy - resisted Tina’s probes. I wrote a story about that and then deleted it, because it would be an invasion and private issue regarding someone besides myself or Duane. Let's just say he could take a difficult situation and stage it in a manner that was firm and to the point.
He resisted Tina's probes.
Just as he resisted mine over the yrs - make a simple generic reply and change the subject...he was GOOD at that. WHY I never knew anything about his past he didn't want me to know.
I agree, Jo. Based on your discription of Duane, and from what I've read, I see a high degree of correlation between your husband and CB Cooper. And with other guys, too, such as Gossett, Christiansen, McCoy, et. al.
I'd like to know more about Duane- what kind of guy he was. Please tell us more. Or send PMs if you think this thread is tired of Weber stories.
From what you've shared, Duane sounds quixotic: warm and friendly at times, but deadly serious, even menacing, at others. Open and loving at times, but then profoundly secretive and closed-off.
Then again, logic is never the preserve of conspiracy theorists. Or those of .... certain persuasions, but let me not bring speakers' corner type topics in here.
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