DB Cooper

[BruceSmith 3]

I still don't get the rationale for any "test". Bruce, you mention the 727 airdrops... all that stuff had already been done by the time of the hijacking, so the hijacking (or purported hijacking) couldn't have been a dry run for any of that. Even with all your theories about the CIA, I still don't see it satisfactorily explained how this fits in, other than "they do nefarious secret stuff so why not this too"?

No-one has satisfactorily explained the rationale of this yet, as far as I'm concerned. If it was a simple test to see how the airline etc responded, why choose that airline and that flight? What was it meant to prove? Who exactly was in on it and who wasn't? Why would the CIA be involved in something that would clearly be an FBI issue with no national security concerns? etc etc etc etc...??????

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Orange1, here's my musings on the "test theory."

Could Flight 305 have been a training mission to prepare operatives for an assassination or other high-risk job?

For instance: skyjacking a plane over Cuba on the way to kill Castro? Or Brezhnev and Moscow? Or Mao and Beijing? Easy access, maybe?

On the surface that would seem ludicrous. Why not just fly in on a regularly scheduled Aeroflot flight?

But, is there something crucial to be learned from skyjacking a plane? Did the skyjacking prepare DB Cooper for something else?

Such as: did it test his courage or fearlessness, or ability to function clearly under extreme conditions? -All to the end that those qualities would serve him well in another job, ie: assassination?

Or did it serve to prove his fitness to his minders?

Or was it a lab experiment to see how far a Manchurian Candidate would go? Did it show how well a brain-washed operative could function?

By the way, I love Brit TV espionage stuff. I utterly savoured The Sandbaggers.

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

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Just curious. You said the book is 'gold' colored, artificial gold foil on the face of outside covers? The money was sticking to that gold face?

I looked at your photo again and it looks likethe book is a plastic ringed binder? Im a little confused what kind of binding this is. Give us a shot of the binder cover if you can, where the money was stuck or impressed?
.

The binder is Gold Colored - rough surfaced. So only the raised area has something on it - greenish in color -I placed a Dollar Bill over the plastic bag (not directly on the cover) and if fits perfectly. I am doing as you advised and having someone take a look at it.

The binder is similar to the binders we use today for presentations. A machine punches lots of retangular holes and puts a plastic binder comb on it. I also have some old books of my own from the 60's that are constructed this way. These books usually vary from 1 inch thick to 1/4 inch thick - you see lots of this type done for charity functions to raise money for a cause.

In comparing the books I have from the late sixties - mine are old and crumbling - in need of new binders, but they have been used and read repeatedly. They have always been kept in a closed shelf away from the elements and light.

The 2 books Duane put on my shelf - are in excellent condition for their age - about the same age or older than my books - this means they have been stored in a more protected enviroment for a great portion of their existence such as a safety deposit box or chest or container. Only one has water damage.

Probably another wild goose chase, but it is something I have been curious about regarding Duane and his secrets. Can't scan it tonight, but will do so in a couple of days.

There are two pieces of paper in the books with printing on them.
I did compare them to the hand scribbling that Shaffner did on the plane. Comparing scribbling and printing is difficult - but there were some common traits (probably just the times). I found no samples of Tina's handwriting - in the FOIA.

Pure Speculation below:

If these items came off the plane they could have also belonged to one of the passengers and left in the aft cabin as they were moved forward. One of these books would have been of interest to Weber because of the title and he may have handled it during the flight. He took it because his prints were on it and you can't wiipe prints off of paper.

These could also be something that belonged to a prior wife or his mother. His sister said they did NOT belong to the mother who died in 1958. The ex-wife said they didn't belong to her, but as we all know there were many women in Weber's life.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

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Could Flight 305 have been a training mission to prepare operatives for an assassination or other high-risk job?

No. Not in a million years. Why? Because the government has a LOT of ways to train people for covert operations that don't involve the general public and give away methods.

It's simply a ludicrous idea.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 247]

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Georger for once someone other than myself has finally spoke up and given a reality check to all I thank you for that, I"m not sure what I can post on this forum I hope this Post doesen't get me kicked off again. I don't Think Paul likes me too much I think that He thinks Jo walks On water. That still dose't change the fact that truth is better than fiction. Jerry

no problem Jerry -

[georger 247]

I agree, Jo. Based on your discription of Duane, and from what I've read, I see a high degree of correlation between your husband and CB Cooper. And with other guys, too, such as Gossett, Christiansen, McCoy, et. al.

I'd like to know more about Duane- what kind of guy he was. Please tell us more. Or send PMs if you think this thread is tired of Weber stories.

From what you've shared, Duane sounds quixotic: warm and friendly at times, but deadly serious, even menacing, at others. Open and loving at times, but then profoundly secretive and closed-off.

There are hundreds of back pages to read on Duane - started reading!most people. Hee hee

[skyjack71 0]

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]So basically Jo's answer to Sluggo's proposal is "no"?

(what a surprise)

What did I say? I said my research is MASSIVE and that each piece would need to be read before scanning - so as not to give out personal information. This would not be to protect my privacy (I nave none), but there are other individuals to be considered. My life may be an open book, but I will not infringe on the privacy of those who have helped me thru the yrs. Like the FIOA somethings would have to be blacked out - This means handling and reading 10,000 plus items.

That was not a NO, but an explanation of how unfeasible the idea is...your are also talking about my revealing information to perfect strangers. I do not know these people nor do I know how they might use the nformation nor anything regarding their credibility in the handling and usage of these file.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 247]

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Just curious. You said the book is 'gold' colored, artificial gold foil on the face of outside covers? The money was sticking to that gold face?

I looked at your photo again and it looks likethe book is a plastic ringed binder? Im a little confused what kind of binding this is. Give us a shot of the binder cover if you can, where the money was stuck or impressed?
.

The binder is Gold Colored - rough surfaced. So only the raised area has something on it - greenish in color -I placed a Dollar Bill over the plastic bag (not directly on the cover) and if fits perfectly. I am doing as you advised and having someone take a look at it.

The binder is similar to the binders we use today for presentations. A machine punches lots of retangular holes and puts a plastic binder comb on it. I also have some old books of my own from the 60's that are constructed this way. These books usually vary from 1 inch thick to 1/4 inch thick - you see lots of this type done for charity functions to raise money for a cause.

In comparing the books I have from the late sixties - mine are old and crumbling - in need of new binders, but they have been used and read repeatedly. They have always been kept in a closed shelf away from the elements and light.

The 2 books Duane put on my shelf - are in excellent condition for their age - about the same age or older than my books - this means they have been stored in a more protected enviroment for a great portion of their existence such as a safety deposit box or chest or container. Only one has water damage.

Probably another wild goose chase, but it is something I have been curious about regarding Duane and his secrets. Can't scan it tonight, but will do so in a couple of days.

There are two pieces of paper in the books with printing on them.
I did compare them to the hand scribbling that Shaffner did on the plane. Comparing scribbling and printing is difficult - but there were some common traits (probably just the times). I found no samples of Tina's handwriting - in the FOIA.

Pure Speculation below:

If these items came off the plane they could have also belonged to one of the passengers and left in the aft cabin as they were moved forward. One of these books would have been of interest to Weber because of the title and he may have handled it during the flight. He took it because his prints were on it and you can't wiipe prints off of paper.

These could also be something that belonged to a prior wife or his mother. His sister said they did NOT belong to the mother who died in 1958. The ex-wife said they didn't belong to her, but as we all know there were many women in Weber's life.

Did Duane have these items BEFORE he started in the antique business in Florida? Im assuming he
did if one connects to his time in WA but that's
only conjecture Jo unless you have some specific
link. Except for being in prison in WA there is no
documented period when he spent time living
in WA - correct?

[georger 247]

It's simply a ludicrous idea.

[JerryThomas 0]

Bruce: Duanes best friend live's just outside of Atlanta Georgia If Jo will give you his name he will be glad to talk to you When I talked to him a few years ago he told me there was no way Duane could be cooper Because he had too many health problems. And He Had sold insurance policys with Duane for many years. He also stated that Duane Was interested in the cooper case because of Mc Coy. I still have the guys phone number If you would like it. Give me a call and I'll give it to you.

[JerryThomas 0]

Sluggo call me . Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

Tonight I spoke with an old classmate I have kept up with over the yrs - reunions and in-between.
He has known me since before kindergarten. When I told him what had been going on in the forums the last few yrs and point blank asked him if he thought I was making all of this up and if he thought I was "crazy".

His response was that anyone who knew how we were raised in small town USA would never accuse me of lying or creating a tale. Then he said "You aren't that smart". All of you have heard the story about what my father told me when I was in the second grade. "Don't you lie to me Josephine, it takes a genius to lie and you are not a genius". This is how we were raised in small town USA.

As for crazy - well, I was voted "most likely to get lost in a crowd". There is no way in God's name I could have made all this stuff up - nor am I delusional.

We talked about memories - that others have said there was NO way I could have the recall I claim, but he also disagrees with that - as he and I both remember the details of our lives from a very young age and down thru the yrs. We have not lived complicated lives like the young people of today - our lives were more focused on everyday things and not phones, movies, technology, TV (most of us where 12 yrs old before we saw a TV). Our lives were simple and these principles followed us thru the yrs and into our marriages and thru out our lives.

I have told you guys before - you have to know me to know I could not be making this crap up and what a large bitter pill I had to swallow by going public in 2000. I had to publically acknowledge that I was married to a man for 17 yrs who had spent that many yrs in 6 prisons. I had to acknowledge how naive I was about life and reveal the very deepest core of my being. Not one of you can understand what it t has taken for me continue to pursue the truth or discovery of what and why Duane told me what he did.

I do it because that is how I was raised - no wrong should go unpunished. I would like to believe that Duane was pulling a fast one on me and that he was not Dan Cooper - but I know what I held in my hands and saw and heard with my own eyes....if he wasn't Dan Cooper he definitely knew who was.

For decades the individuals who profited with the story and those genuinely caught-up in finding Cooper made him a Legend. If the Cooper story had an ending and a resolution those individuals would never accept it even with conclusive proof. A legend 38 yrs in the making - this unsolved mystery has become a entertaining commodity rather than the terrifying and life changing experience it was for all involved, including Cooper himself.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Bruce: Duanes best friend live's just outside of Atlanta Georgia If Jo will give you his name he will be glad to talk to you When I talked to him a few years ago he told me there was no way Duane could be cooper Because he had too many health problems. And He Had sold insurance policys with Duane for many years. He also stated that Duane Was interested in the cooper case because of Mc Coy. I still have the guys phone number If you would like it. Give me a call and I'll give it to you.

That is a total LIE and you know it.
I am sorry Mr. Thomas - but send me the phone number of this best friend you claim to have spoken to and I assure you he will come forward with a written statement refuting that claim - in the form of a written letter which I wll scan. They are NOT public figures and would never post to a forum. I am sure that either of them would be glad to provide a first nickname in their response. Duane only had 2 friends in Atlanta...let me know which one you are taking about. Mr. C or Mr. P. One individual 'disappeared" . Duane NEVER spoke to either of them about McCoy or Cooper. Both men knew me and Duane as a couple and know that Duane was physically able to have accomplished this in 1971.

I had a stroke because of you before with that horrible horrible phone call - in which you repeated over and over - liar liar liar to me.
Saying I was lieing about the trip in 2001, the 3 ladies, the undercover detective - don't start that again.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo that is what I have been waiting for you to say.Unlike you it is a truth that you can not denie and this person can verify everything. So we have only one problem and that is you have been caught . Now I guess this should be the end of your fiction stories. One more thing Ralph also talked to this guy But of course you Didn't Know that and that is why your stories have been given a Fiction list. Now If you'd Like to argue with this fact please do not Pm me And threaten me Like you did. Remember Whwn you PM me And told me I better leave you Alone Or else. I can post that if you like Anyway That same day with in 15 seconds I was given a time Out by Paul Qoade. But you did warn me I guess you do Have a lot of power when it comes to this web site What you don't have is the power to Continue your storie's or Shall I say fiction and little girls sordided Imagination. One last thing I have a friend his name is Brian Allen He also talked to Duanes friend So be very carefull before you call me a lier again . I'm sure that you will not be given a time out like I was . Because name calling only apply's to a certain few like me. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo I have never called you. This also I Can Prove My Phone records will prove this. It;s funny that is just one more thing that you can be chalenged with Please check all my phone records and you will see that there Has never been a time that I Have called you. Now as for your stroke If this is true how can you remember how to type or even your name. so soon. Shelly's Brother Had A stroke recentky And he couldn't even rember his own name My Mother nad a stroke 4 Yrs ago and it took her 2 yrs Before she could remember where she lived . She died 23 Dec 2008, So don't Make up stories That I caused you to have a stroke Jerry

[377 22]

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Could Flight 305 have been a training mission to prepare operatives for an assassination or other high-risk job?

No. Not in a million years. Why? Because the government has a LOT of ways to train people for covert operations that don't involve the general public and give away methods.

It's simply a ludicrous idea.

I agree with Quade and Orange. When you have to resort to grand conspiracies to solve a puzzle, you are almost always wrong. Occam's Razor really works.

Sure, the CIA has done some weird and evil things (MK Ultra) but you can see what they were trying to accomplish. Staging a NO-JACK (a fake DBC hijack with no jump) makes no sense, as Orange has pointed out repeatedly.

It is very tempting to explain the absence of solid DBC evidence by means of govt. conspiracy theories. If you can't find solid evidence to support your claims, blame the CIA, NSA, FBI, USAF etc. UFO, mind control and alien kidnapping buffs do that all the time. Look up "chemtrails" on Google if you want to see another example.

DBC seems like he jumped into thew 4th dimension. That 4th dimension could be the Columbia River.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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Could Flight 305 have been a training mission to prepare operatives for an assassination or other high-risk job?

No. Not in a million years. Why? Because the government has a LOT of ways to train people for covert operations that don't involve the general public and give away methods.

It's simply a ludicrous idea.

Oh Quade, don't dash the fantasies of all the poor conspiracy theorists out there...

Bruce, you talk about pyschiatry. I personally have for a while been interested in the mindset of people who are particularly susceptible to believing conspiracy theories; I have met one or two that otherwise seem like very intelligent, rational people. One in particular, a scientist by training to boot, is utterly convinced that the moon landing was, indeed, faked (the old flag fluttering story).

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Jo, I'm sorry to hear about your stroke.

However, it seems unfair to blame it on a phone call from Jerry, even if it took place, and even if it was a trigger (I am not sure it can be but what do I know), but it is clear that a stroke results from chronic problems that have built up over time.

from medicinenet.com:
What causes a stroke?

Blockage of an artery

The blockage of an artery in the brain by a clot (thrombosis) is the most common cause of a stroke. The part of the brain that is supplied by the clotted blood vessel is then deprived of blood and oxygen. As a result of the deprived blood and oxygen, the cells of that part of the brain die. Typically, a clot forms in a small blood vessel within the brain that has been previously narrowed due to a variety of risk factors including:

high blood pressure (hypertension),
high cholesterol,
diabetes, and
smoking.

Embolic stroke

Another type of stroke may occur when a blood clot or a piece of atherosclerotic plaque (cholesterol and calcium deposits on the wall of the inside of the heart or artery) breaks loose, travels through open arteries, and lodges in an artery of the brain. When this happens, the flow of oxygen-rich blood to the brain is blocked and a stroke occurs. This type of stroke is referred to as an embolic stroke. For example, a blood clot might originally form in the heart chamber as a result of an irregular heart rhythm, such as occurs in atrial fibrillation. Usually, these clots remain attached to the inner lining of the heart, but occasionally they can break off, travel through the blood stream, form a plug (embolism) in a brain artery, and cause a stroke. An embolism can also originate in a large artery (for example, the carotid artery, a major artery in the neck that supplies blood to the brain) and then travel downstream to clog a small artery within the brain.

Cerebral hemorrhage

A cerebral hemorrhage occurs when a blood vessel in the brain ruptures and bleeds into the surrounding brain tissue. A cerebral hemorrhage (bleeding in the brain) can cause a stroke by depriving blood and oxygen to parts of the brain. Blood is also very irritating to the brain and can cause swelling of brain tissue (cerebral edema). Edema and the accumulation of blood from a cerebral hemorrhage increases pressure within the skull and causes further damage by squeezing the brain against the bony skull.

Subarachnoid hemorrhage

In a subarachnoid hemorrhage, blood accumulates in the space beneath the arachnoid membrane that lines the brain. The blood originates from an abnormal blood vessel that leaks or ruptures. Often this is from an aneurysm (an abnormal ballooning out of the wall of the vessel). Subarachnoid hemorrhages usually cause a sudden, severe headache and stiff neck. If not recognized and treated, major neurological consequences, such as coma, and brain death will occur.

Vasculitis

Another rare cause of stroke is vasculitis, a condition in which the blood vessels become inflamed.

------------------
similar stuff here
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stroke/ds00150/dsection=causes

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

here's something from Wiki.

Psychological origins
According to some psychologists, a person who believes in one conspiracy theory tends to believe in others; a person who does not believe in one conspiracy theory tends not to believe another. This may be caused by differences in the information upon which parties rely in formulating their conclusions.

Psychologists believe that the search for meaning is common in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories, and may be powerful enough alone to lead to the first formulating of the idea. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part.[citation needed]

They argue that even if the cabal is almost always perceived as hostile there is, often, still an element of reassurance in it, for conspiracy theorists, in part because it is more consoling to think that complications and upheaveals in human affairs, at least, are created by human beings rather than factors beyond human control. Belief in such a cabal is a device for reassuring oneself that certain occurrences are not random, but ordered by a human intelligence. This renders such occurrences comprehensible and potentially controllable. If a cabal can be implicated in a sequence of events, there is always the hope, however tenuous, of being able to break the cabal's power - or joining it and exercising some of that power oneself. Finally, belief in the power of such a cabal is an implicit assertion of human dignity - an often unconscious but necessary affirmation that man is not totally helpless, but is responsible, at least in some measure, for his own destiny.

Some research carried out at the University of Kent, UK suggests people may be influenced by conspiracy theories without being aware that their attitudes have changed. After reading popular conspiracy theories about the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, participants in this study correctly estimated how much their peers' attitudes had changed, but significantly underestimated how much their own attitudes had changed to become more in favour of the conspiracy theories. The authors conclude that conspiracy theories may therefore have a 'hidden power' to influence people's beliefs.


Projection
Some historians have argued that there is an element of psychological projection in conspiracism. This projection, according to the argument, is manifested in the form of attribution of undesirable characteristics of the self to the conspirators. Richard Hofstadter, in his essay The Paranoid Style in American Politics, stated that:

...it is hard to resist the conclusion that this enemy is on many counts the projection of the self; both the ideal and the unacceptable aspects of the self are attributed to him. The enemy may be the cosmopolitan intellectual, but the paranoid will outdo him in the apparatus of scholarship... the Ku Klux Klan imitated Catholicism to the point of donning priestly vestments, developing an elaborate ritual and an equally elaborate hierarchy. The John Birch Society emulates Communist cells and quasi-secret operation through "front" groups, and preaches a ruthless prosecution of the ideological war along lines very similar to those it finds in the Communist enemy. Spokesmen of the various fundamentalist anti-Communist "crusades" openly express their admiration for the dedication and discipline the Communist cause calls forth.

Hofstadter also noted that "sexual freedom" is a vice frequently attributed to the conspiracist's target group, noting that "very often the fantasies of true believers reveal strong sadomasochistic outlets, vividly expressed, for example, in the delight of anti-Masons with the cruelty of Masonic punishments."


Epistemic bias
It is possible that certain basic human epistemic biases are projected onto the material under scrutiny. According to one study humans apply a 'rule of thumb' by which we expect a significant event to have a significant cause. The study offered subjects four versions of events, in which a foreign president was (a) successfully assassinated, (b) wounded but survived, (c) survived with wounds but died of a heart attack at a later date, and (d) was unharmed. Subjects were significantly more likely to suspect conspiracy in the case of the 'major events' — in which the president died — than in the other cases, despite all other evidence available to them being equal.

Another epistemic 'rule of thumb' that can be misapplied to a mystery involving other humans is cui bono? (who stands to gain?). This sensitivity to the hidden motives of other people may be an evolved and universal feature of human consciousness. However, this is also a valid rule of thumb for detectives to use when generating a list of suspects to investigate. Used in this way "Who had the motive, means and opportunity?" is a perfectly valid use of this rule of thumb.


Clinical psychology
For relatively rare individuals, an obsessive compulsion to believe, prove or re-tell a conspiracy theory may indicate one or more of several well-understood psychological conditions, and other hypothetical ones: paranoia, denial, schizophrenia, mean world syndrome.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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Goertzel identified three traits as being correlated with a belief in conspiracy theories:

- anomia, the respondent stated a belief that he/she felt alienated or disaffection relative to “the system;”
- a tendency to distrust other people; and
- a feeling of insecurity

Citing Volkan, who suggested that insecure and/or discontented people very often feel a need for a tangible enemy on which to externalize their anger, Goertzel notes that conspiracy theories may serve to provide an “enemy” to blame for problems which “otherwise seem too abstract and impersonal.” He further observes that conspiracy theories also provide ready answers for the believer’s unanswered questions and help to resolve contradictions between known ‘facts’ and an individual's belief system.

Now, this seems to fit my scientist acquaintance pretty well actually. The above comes from a much longer article on http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm

This bit also resonates:

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Successful conspiracy theories are those that to some degree empower the believer against what are perceived as external forces that he/she blames for some unpleasant or undesirable facet of their lives. In addition conspiracy theories serve to absolve the individual of some degree of self-accountability since, if the individual is being “oppressed” by some powerful conspiracy, the individual’s efforts at self-advancement will always be futile and thus become nothing more than “a waste of time.”

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

More detail on the Goertzel study here, including some critique of the methodology:
http://www.layscience.net/node/142

intro paragraph:
There's no denying that conspiracies occur around the world on a daily basis. From Watergate to the epic tale of BCCI's "full service" bank, plotters and plotting are a fundamental part of human history, and are regularly investigated by researchers, journalists and other parties. Where these professionals seek the truth through science and dogged research, conspiracy theorists are more akin to religious fundamentalists, deciding on a pre-determined truth compatible with their world view, and then attempting to distort or ignore the evidence to rationalize it.

in his critique of the study, which is summarised in the previous post, he also notes though that

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Showing that belief in conspiracy theories correlates with mistrust and disillusionment tells us nothing about the ultimate cause, what drives people to take up irrational beliefs in the face of conflicting evidence.
Certainly, conspiracy theories have a "God-of-the-Gaps" mentality about them, with 9/11 theories constantly shifting and distorting in an effort to cover any perceived loose ends. In this respect, there seems to be strong anecdotal links between, for example, 9/11 "Truthers" and Creationists in terms of both the techniques they use to make their case, and perhaps the core reasons for their belief.

also

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In later work, Goertzel speaks of the distinction between dialogical or monological belief systems, explaining that: "Dialogical belief systems engage in a dialogue with their context, while monological systems speak only to themselves, ignoring their context in all but the shallowest respects." I'm not sure I buy into his theory, but certainly there is a common theme in the way that conspiracy theories fail to really interact with the real world, almost as if some kind of defense mechanism exists. As Goertzel states: "Conspiratorial beliefs are useful in monological belief systems since they provide an easy, automatic explanation for any new phenomenon which might threaten the belief system."

This distinction is useful for clarifying when a legitimate conspiracy theory crosses the invisible line to become a Conspiracy Theory. "The key issue is not the belief in a specific conspiracy, but the logical processes which led to that belief.".

Dialogical conspiracy theories, such as the Watergate Affair, are characterized by "extensive factual evidence and details, are testable and may even be disconfirmed by new evidence. " On the other hand, monological Conspiracy Theorists "do not search for factual evidence to test their theories. Instead, they offer the same hackneyed explanation for every problem."

and that is really the crux of it - and comes back to the point a number of us have made repeatedly, which is that real conspiracies don't stay secret for very long. If it exists, there is evidence; and if there is evidence, it is found.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Hope no-one minds this train of thought. But given the conspiratists out there I do think these provide useful context
This is actually by a Dr of pyschology:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6354139.stm

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..........
We do not feel particularly comfortable with the idea that something unpredictable or accidental like a car crash could have a big effect like the death of a Princess, or that a single mad gunman could assassinate the most powerful man in the world.

That troubles our sense of the world as being a relatively stable, safe place to live in.

Sometimes we try and cast around for an explanation that matches the magnitude of the event that we see in front of us, and conspiracy theories can provide that explanation.

Psychological tests I have carried out suggest that the more you believe in conspiracy theories the more likely you are to mistrust reported facts.

This is, on one level at least, obvious. But it is important to help us to understand how conspiracy theorists often deal with those taking a critical position.
For instance, when I first started working in the area I received a number of messages from individuals implying I was working for some secretive government organization or another. This, they claimed, must explain why I was asking the questions I was.

In fact, my work only focuses on the psychology behind these beliefs and does not relate to whether a particular conspiracy theory is right or wrong - that is all a matter of evaluating the evidence.

People are also more likely to believe in conspiracy theories if they feel powerless in the face of large social authorities or institutions, and not part of the mainstream of society.
....

As a rule people tend to accept supporting evidence at face value while subjecting contrary evidence to much more critical evaluation.

People show other cognitive biases in how they evaluate ambiguous evidence.

For example, if someone is adamant that the moon landings were faked they will insist that there is clear evidence of this in NASA pictures - why is the flag fluttering when here is no wind on the moon? They will ignore alterative explanations that do not support a conspiracy theory - for example in a vacuum, there is no friction so it takes longer for a flag to roll up.

So if we accept a conspiracy theory to be true we are more likely to accept explanations that are consistent with a conspiracy and less likely to accept evidence that runs against a conspiracy account. ...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

So if we accept a conspiracy theory to be true we are more likely to accept explanations that are consistent with a conspiracy and less likely to accept evidence that runs against a conspiracy account. ...

[377 22]

Interesting ideas Georger. maybe Duane was on a DBC treasure hunt. I had thought Duane might have been learning all about DBC to do a con or sting, posing as someone who had access to the loot.

If Jo or anyone can put Duane in a chute or jumpship/dropship pre NORJACK and I'll reconsider all my conclusions.

Really liked your conspiracy theory psych posts Orange. I was working in rural Louisiana after the moon landing. It seemed like everyone residing in Bayou Country besides me thought it was faked. They REALLY did think it was a hoax, no doubts at all. Nothing I could do would convince them of anything besides my own gullibility.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo, I'm sorry to hear about your stroke.

However, it seems unfair to blame it on a phone call from Jerry, even if it took place, and even if it was a trigger (I am not sure it can be but what do I know), but it is clear that a stroke results from chronic problems that have built up over time.

What I had is call a "warning" thing - I forgot the name of it. I had numbness in my face and arm along with pain behind my eye and a ringing in my ear - I thought it was associated with my nerves or a serotoin rush that causes my heart to race. Due to a complication with my celiacs disease I throw excessive cortisol when I get upset resulting in a serotin rush which makes my heart beat very fast...similar to a panic attack except mine has a physical cause.

This has basically been undercontrol because it can lead to damage in the heart valves...which was checked out about 3 months ago with a Heart CT and function test.

Therefore I ignored it until I noticed my left eye drooping. I was so mad at Jerry the other night that I just spouted off... stroke, but they had another name for it.

I have an appointment with a neurologist next wk. to make sure it is not something else. Thanks for the concern..

TO ALL:
By the way I believe I have stated before that I always had to call Jerry at his request because he didn't always have a phone. The night of that phone call he sent me a PM telling me to call him. Therefore technically he is correct - I called him.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Duane threw money into the Columbia (just like
Tom Kaye has). He wrote something on the packet
with a magic marker (Jo says), just as Tom wrote on
his packets.


Georger, do not recall having said Duane wrote anything on the sack. As far as I know he did not.


ALSO: I have been very busy today - I went to Pensacola with the book and your instructions . Two different parties told me they do not have this equipment and said it would only show a watermark or prints. I am not sure they understood what I was looking for as they sell coins and deal little in paper money or old books.
because that is what I am trying to avoid and the FBI doesn't even care.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber