DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Larry is the lead article on 8/6/09

http://www.fbi.gov/
directly here
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/august09/safecatch_080609.html

Larry Carr is the only working agent in the FBI.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Larry is the lead article on 8/6/09

http://www.fbi.gov/
directly here
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/august09/safecatch_080609.html

If I were a US resident i would be far happier with Carr devoting his time to stuff like this than the Cooper case.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

"Yes, I hope they are reading this because I am fed up. The Salt Lake City photo wasn't even looked at - by Carr or anyone else in the FBI office. When hunting and the bird dog goes into point position - believe me there is something there. They didn't do a flush to even see what was in those bushes."

Jo,

You are not a credible bird dog. You point at too many empty bushes. Why should the FBI flush every bush you point at? Why on earth should we attach ANY significance to the Salt Lake City photo?

Your statement about one investigative path being too sordid to pursue shows that your methodology is so completely flawed that it can be ignored.

Are you seeking the truth or just seeking answers that you like?

You are not coming on my next bird hunt. I'd be better off with Dick Cheney.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

I'd be better off with Dick Cheney.

BTW: Don't you sleep?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Larry is the lead article on 8/6/09

http://www.fbi.gov/
directly here
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/august09/safecatch_080609.html

If I were a US resident i would be far happier with Carr devoting his time to stuff like this than the Cooper case.

Orange1: you got to be kidding!
The majority of bank robberies are just a side effect of the way banks are setup.

The idea that cash is dispensed in a way that is inherently "crackable" means that it will have a failure rate.

Carr is providing a service to the banking industry. They could create a more foolproof system. (only use ATMs for cash), but they won't, because of customer demand.

Think of bank thefts as just the cost of doing business, kind of like credit card fraud.

The banks get Larry's work for free. (well really, the taxpayers shell out for it)

Are you implying bank robbery recovery has some societal good aspect to it????

Sure there's an indirect aspect, but it's pretty minor. There's lots of things that other people do that are more important, for societal good.

Actually, I think having Larry resolve Cooper, would be better for the US, then putting another bank robbery guy in jail.

Didn't you see the riots in California jails? We don't need more people in prison.

(edit) Orange1: if you're worried about the cash amounts, you obviously know there are much bigger and broader thefts or non-societally-good-transfers-of-wealth happening left and right, everywhere!

Let them eat cake! We've got bigger problems!

[snowmman 3]

With http://www.google.com, there is now an autocomplete feature.

so as you type in characters, google gives you a pulldown that is a guess at what you are going to type, based on google tracking what everyone else is typing.

Orange1 said I should be happy about bank robbery recovery.

I'd much prefer someone working on something, so when I start typing:
"9x18 makarov"

into google, I don't get so many choices on the pulldown.
THAT scares me.

[377 22]

Snow, you know I am not a cop fan or sychophant, but sheesh, even I can throw Carr a bone now and then for doing his day job well.

Your provacative out of the box thinking on bank robberies did make me think, and you indeed raised some valid points. Until they change a flawed system someone has to be the cop. It seems like Carr does a decent job catching a class of criminal he personally rates as "stupid." Even stupid criminals can be hard to catch. Not all bank robbers leave a perfect portrait on the survellance cameras. Not every case is a piece of cake.

You and Georger are doing GREAT these days, even bordering on mutual respect now and then. Even you and Jo are doing pretty well. Sluggo and you are also doing reasonably well. We are damned close to a Pax Coopercana.

We still have one unclimbed peak: Snowmman and Carr getting along.

What would it take?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

I'd be better off with Dick Cheney.

BTW: Don't you sleep?

I am planning the perfect alibi generator. Autolaunching of earlier prepared emails and forum posts is easy. Working on fake realtime video chats... so far so good.

I am trying to hack convenience store and gas station camera networks to insert previously shot video, but Snow will not give me the back door info on the server chips he designed. He won't even admit that there are back doors in his chips, but we all know better. Can any of you see Snow designing a server chip without one? I rest my case.

One reason he is so pissed at Carr is that he can see Carr's personnel file. Snow reads about all the kudos Carr is getting for his "citizen sleuth" program, recruiting "nationally recognized scientists" as volunteers and enhancing the public image of the agency as 21st century Internet savvy crime busters.

It isn't easy being Snowmman, but someone has to do the job.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman: I've been in both those countries. Did you also know that Russia and China gave air and ground combat support to North Vietnam.Fact ! seen it personally. Jerry

[snowmman 3]

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Snowmman: I've been in both those countries. Did you also know that Russia and China gave air and ground combat support to North Vietnam.Fact ! seen it personally. Jerry

Hi Jerry. I've not read a lot.
But in Plaster's book, he mentions Soviet helis, and obviously Chinese arms, and also Chinese advisors.

Yeah, that's another thing that made the Vietnam war tough. You guys weren't just fighting North Vietnam. You were fighting a proxy war with China and the Soviet Union.

I'm not a historian, but it seems to me that it's fake to say that WWII ended at some time. It never really ended. all these things have a timeline back to WWII, it seems to me.

Care to share anything that you saw?

[snowmman 3]

377 said: "Not all bank robbers leave a perfect portrait on the survellance cameras."

Well, it's getting better (leaving portraits)

I actually have a friend who is part of revolutionizing the surveillance cam biz.

I think I even saw an article where Carr was crediting his stuff with providing hi-res image of the bad guy.

funny huh!

[snowmman 3]

Did everyone get the news that the Ted B. Braden, 80, that I was looking for, died in 2007?

Not sure if he's the SF Ted B. Braden.

But it made me kind of sad to read.
Maybe he was the Braden in Africa. If so, kind of sad to go without your old SF buddies knowing.

But who knows. Maybe the SF Braden is still around somewhere.

In terms of actuarial tables, though, it should remind us that Cooper is probably dead now, even if he survived the jump.
(assuming Cooper in 1971 was 42-50 say)

[377 22]

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In terms of actuarial tables, though, it should remind us that Cooper is probably dead now, even if he survived the jump.
(assuming Cooper in 1971 was 42-50 say)

The post made me think a bit. I just want to see the mystery solved. If Cooper is alive he might still face prison, and I don't want that.

The goal isn't to catch Cooper (at least for me). The goal is to solve one of the greatest crime mysteries in history. A dead Cooper makes that a lot less messy.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

just got an IM that STAO's FANTOM v9.3 is available for download.
Since it's incompatible with v8, everyone needs to do a full install.

There are still some problems with vista...any glitches, file a helpdesk.

good luck!

details at:
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/july09/STAO_073109.html

[377 22]

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I actually have a friend who is part of revolutionizing the surveillance cam biz.

I think I even saw an article where Carr was crediting his stuff with providing hi-res image of the bad guy.

funny huh!

I guess he is still your friend Snow, even though he helped Carr. It was an accident and forgiven I assume.

Once CCD cam chips and CMOS became available everything changed. Cameras will be everywhere soon. Cell phones were just the beginning.

Arguably, the inventor (possibly co-inventor) of the CCD video chip was Gilbert Amelio, a PhD scientist who for a brief time was the CEO of Apple. He invented it while he was working for Fairchild as I recall.

The obscure patent was almost forgotten in various mergers and so forth, but was finally rediscovered and the current owner brough suit against Sony. The potential recoveries were HUGE. Imagine getting a royalty on every camera Sony made. Then, if they won against Sony they would start after all consumer video and camera companies. A New York federal jury found the patent valid and infringed by Sony. DISASTER for Sony. Incredibly, the trial judge reversed the jury finding and entered a JNOV, basically saying the jury was wrong, the patent was invalid and granting judgment in favor of Sony. Odd...

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377 mentioned patents.

Google is basically built on copyright infringment.
Youtube is the most obvious extension of that.
They had some fights over their Google Books stuff.

here's the thing: there is no god-given set of "rights".
"rights" are just agreements that societies agree to enforce for the common good. Needs change over time.

The strength of the US has always been its ability to change rapidly.

People who want to rally against that, and argue that our strength comes from guns or "we're bigger and have nukes" or whatever other crazy idea, should get used to eating potatoes.

[377 22]

You are right Snow. Intellectual property is arbitrary. It is all man made rules. Nature doesn't recognize such a concept. Selective adaptation is about about copying things that work better than what came before. Darwin didn't discover royalties or injunctions, just massive copying of advantageous mutations. The model works really well if survival enhancement is the measure. It's a fine measure in my book.

Google basically ignores IP rights and depends on their size to force settlements for "peanuts." I mean look at the copyright infringement settlement, it hardly cost them anything and they can now copy at will. Google also lands and stores their corporate Boeing 767 at a federal airfield (Moffett) where no other private jets are permitted to reside. The government, embarrassed by the obvious favoritism, got Google to agree to let NASA occasionally use their luxurious 767 corp jet for "atmospheric research". Oh sure. What an ideal atmosphereic research aircraft. Where do you put the instrument bays? Next to the queen sized bed in the owner's suite? Careful now, dont scatch the African rosewood trim. Google IS the 800 pound Gorilla.

China ignores IP rights. Ask anyone who works there. Bet they haven't seen a legal copy of any software in a Chinese enterprise. It's ALL pirated. First run movies are all on DVD for a buck.

All this Nam SOG stuff has me absolutely riveted. Cooper might not have been an SOG soldier, but so what.

Georger's water landing odds calc makes me conclude that the only propellor that could have contacted Cooper's body would be from a crashed plane.

Still... Cooper's rig is out there somewhere. We lose sight of that sometime. Jerry hasn't.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange1: you got to be kidding!
The majority of bank robberies are just a side effect of the way banks are setup.

The idea that cash is dispensed in a way that is inherently "crackable" means that it will have a failure rate.

Carr is providing a service to the banking industry. They could create a more foolproof system. (only use ATMs for cash), but they won't, because of customer demand.

Think of bank thefts as just the cost of doing business, kind of like credit card fraud.

The banks get Larry's work for free. (well really, the taxpayers shell out for it)

Are you implying bank robbery recovery has some societal good aspect to it????

Ah, Snow.

Don't blame the robbers, blame the banks?? That leads down a path best not worth mentioning.

No cost to society? Hidden, maybe, but there.

Cost to taxpayers? Well, if this acts a deterrent, and therefore fewer people rob banks, less policing would be needed and less cost to taxpayers.

Do you think a better precedent would be set by allowing anyone to rob a bank?

What about bank robbers who harm innocent people? No cost to society in that?

I love economics because it applies to everything. I haven't really looked much at it, although I know that part of what won Gary Becker his Nobel prize was looking at the economics of crime.

In a quick search, I came across an article and this bit caught my eye -- maybe Cooper and bank robbers are not so dissimilar after all...?: (the bold is mine)

Quote

Having worked with groups of convicted bank robbers, some psychologists and sociologists insist that bank robbery is not an endeavor for strictly material reasons [Johnston, 1978; Katz, 1991]. Instead, they suggest a bank might become an arena where psychological pressures are acted out. Rage emanating from previous failed experiences may be driving a bank robber who might feel "in charge" and feel "he is somebody" when committing the crime of bank robbery.

from
http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/167934487.html

On the offchance any of you are interested in Becker's seminal article, from 1968, a copy is here:
http://www.ww.uni-magdeburg.de/bizecon/material/becker.1968.pdf

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Orange1 said "No cost to society? Hidden, maybe, but there. "

There are lots of bad things.
See, it's not reality to say, that the main issues are these 0.5% issues.

You have to multiply each thing you're trying to deter against, with it's negative impact.

It's all about risk management and cost/benefit.

You can't fix everything.

Sure you can say some incredibly complicated set of rule maintenance is the goal.

But that fails.

The goal should always be to simplify society, get good shared goals, minimize the overall high risk/impact things (like getting car manufacturers to build safer cars, control the spread of nukes, etc), help remove the things that cause radicalization (inequitable distribution of power and wealth), improve the flow of knowledge and education.

Note I left out healthcare. Keeping more people alive longer is kind of unsustainable. But if people want it, I guess one has to go along with it.

But on the other hand, all that would cut into the profits of Snowmman Industries. During the gold rush, the hardware stores made the money with shovels. Nowadays, Snowmman Industries returns the same profit potential to savvy investors.

[377 22]

Becker says basically the more you spend the "easier' it is to find and apprehend criminals. That is almost a verbatim quote before he gets into the math.

The FBI obviously needs to spend more. This volunteer stuff will never work. Pay Tom, pay him lots.

Cooper stimulus money. Get in line. Everyone but Snow. Larry Carr is in charge of administering the payouts. Now the rancor is costing you Snow.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Having worked with groups of convicted bank robbers, some psychologists and sociologists insist that bank robbery is not an endeavor for strictly material reasons [Johnston, 1978; Katz, 1991]. Instead, they suggest a bank might become an arena where psychological pressures are acted out. Rage emanating from previous failed experiences may be driving a bank robber who might feel "in charge" and feel "he is somebody" when committing the crime of bank robbery.

How might we apply this research to Cooper? Was NORJACK an aerial bank robbery? I'd bet Carr has a very good "feel" for bank robbers. I saw this phenomena when I did criminal defense. Some cops really developed a "feel" for the types of criminal they investigated.

One cop in Oakland had a "feel" for car thieves. They were different from residential burglars or armed stick up guys. This cop could eliminate a car theft suspect based on some kind of intuitive profiling and he was almost always right.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Becker says basically the more you spend the "easier' it is to find and apprehend criminals. That is almost a verbatim quote before he gets into the math.

The FBI obviously needs to spend more. This volunteer stuff will never work. Pay Tom, pay him lots.

Cooper stimulus money. Get in line. Everyone but Snow. Larry Carr is in charge of administering the payouts. Now the rancor is costing you Snow.

377

You don't get it 377.
Yes everyone else gets the cash from Carr.
But they come to me to spend it.
Ka-ching!
You think they're going to go to K-mart to get what they need? If they don't get 'something' they won't get the next check from Carr.

So sure, I may get the brushoff for a little while, but when the project deadline looms, and management is yelling "i don't care what it costs, we can't lose the contract"....

who ya gonna call?

"Bad boys, Bad boys...watcha gonna do?"

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

I was going to make a funny joke asking if you wanna buy a **** (rhymes with puke). Then I thought with just 4 more days until my departure, I probably shouldn't be making jokes about "sensitive subjects."

Hey snowttrol,

After reading some of your stuff (tripe) this morning, something hit me... You know Dr. Roland Finston?
Former Radiation Safety Officer and Chairman of the Health Physics Department at Stanford. He's a neighbor of yours, restores old VW Vans, and shares your political beliefs.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I was going to make a funny joke asking if you wanna buy a **** (rhymes with puke). Then I thought with just 4 more days until my departure, I probably shouldn't be making jokes about "sensitive subjects."

Hey snowttrol,

After reading some of your stuff (tripe) this morning, something hit me... You know Dr. Roland Finston?
Former Radiation Safety Officer and Chairman of the Health Physics Department at Stanford. He's a neighbor of yours, restores old VW Vans, and shares your political beliefs.

Oh, there is someone else on the planet who might think like I do? Strange. I wouldn't have expected that.

I think someone mentioned him before. Maybe 377. I remember looking for the guy's web site and something about restoring old vw vans. Not worth looking again. I mean, the '60s and '70s are like....history?

Does he repair nukes?

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

You mean:
To restore to sound condition after damage or injury; fix?

Or, do you mean:
to betake oneself?

It really doesn't matter... He's anti-nuke, anti-war, anti-tax (especially to support wars), anti-authority, but... unlike you, he's very sociable and fun to talk to.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum