DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Quote

You mean:
To restore to sound condition after damage or injury; fix?

Or, do you mean:
to betake oneself?

It really doesn't matter... He's anti-nuke, anti-war, anti-tax (especially to support wars), anti-authority, but... unlike you, he's very sociable and fun to talk to.

heh!
Why bother with the attempts at insults, Sluggo?
Why would I care whether you think I'm fun to talk to?

Or am I missing the point. Is it to mark me, so others know your opinion of me? Kind of like pissing on a rock, to some extent? marking territory?

I don't get it.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Oh! You "get it" alright!

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

Quote

but... unlike you, he's very sociable and fun to talk to.

What a fool I was to hope for peace. There are no Camelots on dropzone.com.

Quote

After reading some of your stuff (tripe) this morning, something hit me... You know Dr. Roland Finston?
Former Radiation Safety Officer and Chairman of the Health Physics Department at Stanford. He's a neighbor of yours, restores old VW Vans, and shares your political beliefs.

These enemies of the state make it too easy, driving beat up VW vans and such. Snow and his video friend are already marketing a chip to the feds that can ID these types, target and launch on them all unattended. You think red light cameras are bad. Just wait.

Snowmman Enterprises is opening a branch office in Langley VA and in Ljubljana. The best opening party will be at the palatial offices in Slovenia. The top agents in Hollywood are kissing major Snowbbutt trying to get invites for their clients.

Meanwhile, Jerry slogs through the Washougal looking for a glint of a B 12 snap or the rusted springs of a Navy pack opening band. Long odds, but Jerry knows that rig is out there somewhere. Georger mercifully does not post the odds of Jerry finding it.

Meanwhile the rest of us pound keyboards, gripe about the FBI and chase dead guys.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Oh! You "get it" alright!

okay, I guess it's settled then!

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

Oh! You "get it" alright!

okay, I guess it's settled then!

Settle down guys, lets not get all spun up over a few mild insults. I wish there was a reset button here.

Don't paint a Quade targets on your forehead. We've been enjoying good times here, no need for trouble.

Just settle down easy now. I'll buy you both a Bourbon and soda.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

These happen when
-we have nothing to discuss
-Jerry has dulled our fantasy image of Orange1 to mere intellect.

Bruce is working the phones.
I'm waiting for my Ramparts in the mail.

Hey, I read an account of when CCN headquarters got hit with a NVA attack. Weak security. satchel charges. Largest single incident loss of SF life, at the time, I believe.

They attacked the night after a bunch of SF types showed up at CCN hq for the annual promotion review board. Lots of drinking the night before, because everyone was getting reacquainted.

Evidently they relied on local ARVN for some security..the NVA had a lot of intelligence.

Their response was slowed because of the partying.
Guys were dumbfounded that they almost bought the farm at CCN hq, after making it thru recons.

It was an interesting article.

Sluggo can post it.

(edit) Details of the attack were kept classified for a long time, apparently.

[377 22]

Quote

Hey, I read an account of when CCN headquarters got hit with a NVA attack. Weak security. satchel charges. Largest single lost of SF life.

They attacked the night after a bunch of SF types showed up at CCN hq for the annual promotion review board. Lots of drinking the night before, because everyone was getting reacquainted.

Evidently they relied on local ARVN for some security..the NVA had a lot of intelligence.

After a few fatal double crosses I am amazed that CCN HQ would rely on indiginous security when the best and brightest SF guys were going to all be gathered in one spot. Talk about a rich target...

What a shame.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

How about a post from Shelly? Things are slow here, but that doesnt slow down us loudmouths. Lets hear from the silent majority.

What's new Shelly? Do you still read our posts? Jerry sure doesn't seem to take you for granted. What's your secret? My girlfriend wants to know.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377 said: "After a few fatal double crosses I am amazed that CCN HQ would rely on indiginous security when the best and brightest SF guys were going to all be gathered in one spot. Talk about a rich target...

What a shame."

Well yeah, once you outsource, your weakest link is thru the guy who cleans the toilets.

Plaster addresses the suspected mole issue a lot.
SOG did very well trying to maintain operational security. They actually second guessed themselves and brought in outside folks to review their procedures. They outside guys said they had the best security they'd reviewed.

The recon guys learned to actually give false reports to all except the FAC. evidently their exact positions were in a report that made it's way to ARVN higher ups.

Plaster makes the point that a lot of ops were probably compromised by people later found out to be moles, higher up even, in ARVN.

Basically, there were a lot of political issues that made the situation hopeless.

However, I always wondered about all the drinking going on. It's a little weird to be partying so much when things are so messed up. I always wondered how much the NVA were partying?

[377 22]

Quote

I always wondered how much the NVA were partying?

Not big party animals from what I have read. I remember reading about an underground tunnel facility that was discovered by our forces and evacuated by the NVA in great haste. BIG facility, many "rooms" etc and no evidence of alcohol consumption, drugs etc. It is just one data point.

Viet Nam was home for the NVA. People tend to party more on foreign adventures. I have a high school friend who served in Viet Nam. He wasn't big doper or drinker before he left but he did both to great excess when in Saigion.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Hi Y'all,

Snowmman has given me a ton o' leads to pursue in finding Ted B. Braden. Here's a report on what I've found out.

1. A woman named P. was married to a Ted B Braden and they lived in a rural town south of Pittsburg.

2. I spoke wiith a resident of their town named L., and learned a few things:

During the 1970s, P. had a relationship with Ted Braden that was was short lived and intermittent. Ted was a truck driver, based out of Michigan, possibly the Detroit area or Chicago. P. and Ted had some real arguments and fights. Ted was abusive, getting violent when he “drank too much.”

P. and Ted were not together for long and she divorced him in the 70s.

P. stayed in the area for many years – at least 20.

Duriing the 1970s, Ted was in and out of P's life.

L. said she didn’t really remember Ted much, but did say that “he seemed like a disciplinary kind of guy – yeah – he was kind of a military kind of guy when I think about it.”

Age and time fits. L. said P would be late 70s now, and Ted was in his mid-late 40s during the time he was with P in the 1970s.

P is now reported to be living in Florida with or near family.

Other:

Still looking at Niles, Ohio leads.

[377 22]

Thanks Bruce. You are our feet on the street.

Just a hypothetical question: if you were THE Ted Braden (ex SF) and you did NORJACK, would you tell anyone?

I wouldn't, not much gain and a huge increase in risk.

Sounds like a sad life with all the alcohol abuse. A deserter probably couldn't even hang with his SF buddies and talk about the old times and comraderie. I don't know how that community treats desertion but I will bet not very favorably.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Bruce said "Ted was a truck driver, based out of Michigan, possibly the Detroit area or Chicago. P. and Ted had some real arguments and fights. Ted was abusive, getting violent when he “drank too much.”

Bruce got a lot of good stuff, which shows why skill-based behavioral profiling works: i.e. Bruce is good at this stuff, better than the rest of us.

This paragraph above rang a bell. I think it aligns with the WWII records I saw on a Ted B. Braden that enlisted towards the tail end of WWII. But with a different birth year.

maybe Ted lied and enlisted and was in for a short time then.

Remember the Ramparts article mentioned WWII which didn't make sense for 14 years military experience at the time of the Africa event.

I'm going to look at this more.

Would be really good to find the wife. Two years younger, probably not a drinker. Women live longer. Might still be alive.

If this is the SF Braden, he deserves to have his story told. I mean Braden was there, giving it his best shot.

[snowmman 3]

I'm scratching my head wondering why the Braden story is aligning with the random nonsense Jo has spewed out about Duane.

Remember Ohio?

If the WWII Ted is the same Ted, I have his birthplace and residence when he enlisted, along with claimed usable skill category.

[BruceSmith 3]

Back at Y'all,

I had two fasciating interviews over the weeks that reveal a possible whole new wrinkle in the DB Cooper story that could change everything, at least as how I understand the basic story line.

Here's what I got:

Interview with Marianne Scott Lincoln, August 8, 9, 2009.

Marianne Scott Lincoln is currently running for the School Board in a Pierce County WA district, and I interviewed her for the local newspaper. In the course of our conversation we began talking about my work on the DB Cooper case.

When I mentioned that DB Cooper had demanded $200,000, Marianne interjected and said adamantly, “Not he didn’t. He asked for $400,000 at first."

Startled, I asked her how she knew that.

“I know because I was listening to the radio transmissions from the cockpit to Sea-Tac tower.”

Here’s Marianne’s story.

The DB Cooper skyjacking was underway as she got home from school. Marianne was 14 years old at the time, and lived with her family in a home at Shady Acres Airport in Spanaway, WA. The home was right on the runway and had a hangar. Her family had several aircraft and was part of a very active and large flying community.

When Marianne got home that day she went straight to her father’s workshop in the hangar and turned on his VHF radio. She called family friends at the Thun Field Tower (Pierce County Airport, now) and got the radio frequency for the Sea-Tac Tower.

She tuned in and listened for the next four hours.

At first the transmission were garbled as the Tower had many flights to re-direct, but within 10-20 minutes the radio chatter quieted and for the next few hours she just listened to the transmissions: one voice from the plane (Rataczak’s), and one voice from the Tower.

She said that the plane voice relayed the message that Cooper wanted $400,000. She said that a series of negotiations began then and the radio transmissions were brief and had long pauses of empty quiet. She could only hear one side of the discussion, meaning that the plane voice relayed information back to Cooper or whomever on the plane, then reported back to the Tower. She never heard any of the discussions.

The Tower voice in turn was reporting to others in the Tower, who discussed counter-offers, and the Tower voice then reported the offer to the plane voice. At no time did the plane voice and the Tower voice participate in the negotiations or discussion. They merely acted as mouth-pieces for others.

Marianne never heard what the others were saying, either in the Tower or on the plane.

Also, at no time did anyone from the FBI or CIA get on the radio, as far as Marianne heard.

Marianne listened for hours and said it often got boring. She turned on a TV set and had a second source of information coming in. Her father (named William Scott, BTW, another piece of synchronicity!) also came in, as did a couple other family members.

Marianne doesn’t fully remember if she was still listening when 305 took off from Sea-Tac at 7:30, or when Cooper jumped in the 8:10-8:30 time frame. She thinks she was, but she was also eating dinner with her family, listening to family discussion about Cooper and their speculations on what was happening and what was going to happen.

However, Marianne strongly believes that she heard that 305 turned east, away from Victor 23, over Gresham, Oregon, just after crossing the Columbia River, and continued over the Columbia between Mt. Hood and Mt. Adams.

I’ve had two interviews with Marianne on this subject, and her memory is unclear. At first she was adamant that 305 turned east over Gresham, mentioning it several times. But in the second interview, when we tried to piece together other aspects – such as if the plane voice was different out-bound from Sea-Tac as opposed to the voice in-bound to Sea-Tac as Rataczak told me it was (R. said he handled comm. in-bound and Scotty did out-bound).

I’ve suggested to Marianne that she try some self-hypnosis or candle focus to clear her mind and focus in on these issues, and she said she might.

She also made one more chaneg in the second interview. She said she as listening to Seattle Center, broadcasting out of Auburn, WA, not Sea-Tac Tower itself.

Also:

Her neighbor at Shady Acres was a NWO pilot, whom she suggested I call to get more background info. I talked with him today and he said Rataczak ‘was one of the good guys.” Never flew with him, but he knew him. He didn’t know Scott too well, though.

[snowmman 3]

wow amazing bruce.
shows how the story still sticks in people's minds, and there is new info available.

I have to digest what you just posted.

But you're saying there are radio broadcasts that happened, for which we might not have transcripts (and the FBI might not have transcripts)

(edit) Bruce said "She said she as listening to Seattle Cetner, broadcasting out of Auburn, WA"

we have the transcripts from Auburn after they lifted off from Seattle. We don't have the transcripts from Auburn before landing. The negotiation would have happened before landing??

Maybe Larry Carr, Mr SafeCatch has more transcripts for us somewhere???

I wonder if Rataczak could confirm this??
You have Rataczak's phone number right?
If not, sluggo or I could forward.

[snowmman 3]

It's possible that radio communication garbled the request..i.e. people thought the plane said "$400,000" and then it was corrected to "$200,000"

remember there was a request for 4 parachutes.

She may be misremembering just what was "4"

[BruceSmith 3]

No. Marianne was quite clear and adamant about the $400,000. She said the negotiations were lengthy, and it sounds as if they had a level of contentiousness to them, although Marianne said that the plane voice and Tower voice were always very calm, never lost their cool and always sounded professional.

[377 22]

Thanks Bruce, again!!!

The radio haggling about $400k just doesnt sound right and isn't reflected in any other stories about NORJACK. I would not rule out faulty memory.

Reporters and newsrooms had VHF radio receivers in 71 and at some point when the hijack info started coming out would have tuned in. None of them reported a $400K demand.

Keep up the great work.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

377 said:

Quote

Settle down guys, lets not get all spun up over a few mild insults. I wish there was a reset button here.

Don't paint a Quade targets on your forehead. We've been enjoying good times here, no need for trouble.

Just settle down easy now. I'll buy you both a Bourbon and soda.

Whoa… slow down… even though snowttroll doesn’t believe it, communication by posts on an I-net thread can lead to misunderstandings. I think when I made a post a few days ago (Post 11949), I clearly stated that I respect snowttroll. That doesn’t mean I won’t take a jab at him now and then. This is especially true when he is at his snowttroll-i-est. Therefore: I expect to receive a jab from him occasionally.

I would not seriously insult a poster then ask if he knew an old friend of mine. Likewise I wouldn’t threaten a poster on this board. I would threaten him/her by PM or e-mail, or better still just sneak up on him and make him hurt. [See that’s a joke] I guess I’m obligated to put a smiley-face emoticon there, but I often forget.

We (the frequent posters here) are like a big, dysfunctional family. Snowttroll is my little brother who took my prized Duke Snyder autographed baseball and played a sandlot game with it, then went on to excel in school, got a great job and became semi-famous. I’ll NEVER forgive him, but what’s in the past is in the past. It is what it is. Res ipsa loquitur. But I’ll never let him forget it either.

I can’t speak for snowttroll, but I was neither insulted, nor angry, nor attempting to be (really) insulting. I just call it like I see it. snowttroll behaves as he behaves. I can love the person and hate the behavior. But I will call a spade a spade (or in the case of snowttroll, a spade a F^%king shovel). [See that’s humor again.]

Now… let’s talk about that bourbon. Yea… I’d sit down with 377 and snowttroll to drink some good Tennessee or Kentucky sippin’ whiskey. Hell, I even sit down with just snowttroll and share some really good whiskey (maybe Basil Hayden or Booker’s). I think some good sippin’ whiskey would rub the California right offa y’all. [Did you recognize the humor that time?] Then we could arm wrestle. Whoops, I remember those photos of snowttroll climbing that ice. And I know 377 usta pull on those fishing nets. Arm wrestling is out, spitting contest is in.

Okay seriously now… I’ll be taking down my ISP (here at the Apt.) today or tomorrow. I’ll have some access from work (if they don’t arrest me for the “wanna buy a nuke” question from an earlier post made from the lab’s computer) until mid-day Thursday. Then it’ll be motel Wi-Fi until I reach SE Alabama (probably Sunday).

So, after Thursday:
snowttroll hold your insults (at least those pointed at me).
All others keep digging, Waugh introduced us to Braden, but snowttroll brought Braden to the forefront and made him real (dead or alive). I don’t think he can be ignored, but we need more data. (snowttroll, did you notice I said “data” not “facts”? Maybe some of the Alabama is rubbing offa me!)

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

It's been so long since we analyzed the transcripts, I forget some key stuff.

We have the transcripts where the chute request, knapsack request, and money request were relayed.

There was no back and forth on $400,000

Bruce: I think her memory is just wrong?

I have to read Sluggo's post, but Sluggo can go thru the detail of the transcript probably from memory.

[snowmman 3]

Sluggo,
You're free to believe anything you want.
I will never sit down for a drink with you, ever.
I don't care what you think of me.
I don't care what you think when you read my posts.

You can interpret this post in whatever twisted way you want, in whatever twisted profile you've created for me.

I guess I care about something, because I'm posting this.
Do I know what? no not really. I have no problem with being irrational though. It can be a good thing.

(edit) You can debate how Waugh entered the conversation.
Braden wouldn't have entered the conversation without Bruce.

Bruce is the one whose ass you should be kissing.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Keep at it Bruce… data is data.


But I have to admit, a lot of Marianne’s story doesn’t fit with some of the things that I know (or think I know) about what was going on that evening.

I don’t believe there was any live TV coverage (even locally). I can be wrong, but of all the “looking for stuff” I’ve done through the years, no Portland or Seattle stations have indicated they have (or had) kinescope film of any of the hijacking activities (and you’d think if they had them, they would have kept them). The only images of the hijacking activities (that I have seen) was that shot of Flight 305 on the runway at SEA-TAC shot through a sixty-quintillion millimeter lens.

Now maybe they released bulletins (a talking head saying; “This just in…”), but I have never seen any.

Anyway, Marianne has a story and it needs to be brought out into the light, examined, and judged.

Now… I’m going to make an admittedly very bigoted, prejudicial, and skeptical statement. Here goes:
Thun Field (PLU) and Shady Acres (3BB) seem to have a “high degree of strangeness” (a UFOlogist’s term).

What say you, Cousin Bruce, about my bigotry?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

.... whatever twisted profile you've created for me.

Sir, I believe it is you who has created the profile. I'm just the mirror.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Stars and Stripes 1961 (April 24, page 8)

the article about Ted Braden I referenced before...competitive jumping...

(edit) Correction: the picture is of someone else. The article still mentions Braden and Mrs. Braden. ..

I'm reading it right now.

It references a Mrs. Ted Braden in 1961.

This is mind-blowing. There may have been a previous wife before the PA wife.

Oh damn the jpg is 2MB
I'll chop it.
I should OCR the text too.