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Orange1 0
QuoteDid the Night Clerk just show up at Portland FBI without a prior appointment?
And walked up to the desk guy and said "I have a statement about the Night of November 23, 1971. It is typed and notarized. Can you take it?"
Or was there prior notification that Night Clerk was going to show up.
I'm surprised Larry actually got notified, if some random guy off the street walks in and starts babbling about John Collins.
Do you have more detail Jo? Surprised they didn't Tase the Night Clerk and test the statement for anthrax.
I thought Carr said they took the interview over the phone? I don't recall anything about the clerk showing up at the office.
I am also wondering if someone can keep on accusing (repeatedly and in a public forum) a federal employee of lying about doing their job,, without repercussions when the person has no first hand (if any) knowledge that said employee is actually lying. When does this become slander?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 247
I'm surprised Larry actually got notified, if some random guy off the street walks in and starts babbling about John Collins.
I thought Carr said they took the interview over the phone? I don't recall anything about the clerk showing up at the office.
I had a novel thought.
Maybe there was a John C Collins and he and Duane
were two distinct persons! Collins didn;t know Duane
at all but Duane somehow did knew Collins and
even borrowed his name at times (without Collins
knowing), and Collins was at the motel that night
but not Cooper.
Therefore neither Collins or Duane were Cooper!
That would explain Jo's total hopeless confusion?
Snowmann stated:
OK, I will try - there were 2 mentions of the marina, but the first one was real vague and just a passing statement...when we were at Lake LaCames explaining to me what was on the other side of the Lake and mentioning a means the forestry used to get the logs to the river. He also mentioned a logging camp which I later learned was a feeding station from the director of the J.D. Currie Youth Camp.
This story (about the boat) was told after we had been to Seattle and went back down I-5 to Vancouver. It was that morning he made those 3 stops on the Columbia and tossed that paper sack in the water behind the motel at the foot of the bridge on the Vancouver side and West of the bridge.
We then proceeded to the Portland side of the bridge where he drove by some storage buildings not far from the airport and mentioned a car being left there at one time...I aways presumed this car was parked infront of the buildings.
Then we drove East along the Columbia - he tells me that most of what is along the river is industrial on that side - as we get on down the road - he mentions the overpass across the river and tells me about the Marina that is behind that so I can't see if from that area. This is when he told me the story about the boat. "They" was referring to the police (so I thought) because I was imagining him doing this as a very young man. The grin on his face telling that story - I will NOT forget as long as I live. As usual I chastized him "like a Mama" with her son, but with amazement at the things he had done. Again I asked for NO explanation - I never asked why.
Just "You, didn't!"
It was a short time after that we turned around and headed back toward Portland to take a road toward Tahoe (it was not until that moment I knew we were going to Tahoe). I wanted to know how we could afford it - and his explanation that the office had given him a bonus while he was Seattle.
At one time on that journey along the Columbia he tells me about an Island in the middle of the river.
I remember this trip because WA was a state I had not been to and I had never been to Tahoe. My family had gone on a Western vacation, but my mother became ill so we didn't make it to WA and turned around just inside of the CA. state line and headed home. I was 13 or 14 yrs old.
QuoteJo said "The story Duane told me was that "they" thought it was a bunch of boys going for a joy ride."
When did he tell you this story?
He was talking about the hijack story, and told you this story?
I can't imagine the context where Duane started talking about "they". And boats and joy rides.
Can you describe this conversation, date and place it occured, more? (edit) Oh I read your post more and you have some detail. But it doesn't make sense. You're saying it was just a random conversation, that you later tied to the Cooper hijack somehow
OK, I will try - there were 2 mentions of the marina, but the first one was real vague and just a passing statement...when we were at Lake LaCames explaining to me what was on the other side of the Lake and mentioning a means the forestry used to get the logs to the river. He also mentioned a logging camp which I later learned was a feeding station from the director of the J.D. Currie Youth Camp.
This story (about the boat) was told after we had been to Seattle and went back down I-5 to Vancouver. It was that morning he made those 3 stops on the Columbia and tossed that paper sack in the water behind the motel at the foot of the bridge on the Vancouver side and West of the bridge.
We then proceeded to the Portland side of the bridge where he drove by some storage buildings not far from the airport and mentioned a car being left there at one time...I aways presumed this car was parked infront of the buildings.
Then we drove East along the Columbia - he tells me that most of what is along the river is industrial on that side - as we get on down the road - he mentions the overpass across the river and tells me about the Marina that is behind that so I can't see if from that area. This is when he told me the story about the boat. "They" was referring to the police (so I thought) because I was imagining him doing this as a very young man. The grin on his face telling that story - I will NOT forget as long as I live. As usual I chastized him "like a Mama" with her son, but with amazement at the things he had done. Again I asked for NO explanation - I never asked why.
Just "You, didn't!"
It was a short time after that we turned around and headed back toward Portland to take a road toward Tahoe (it was not until that moment I knew we were going to Tahoe). I wanted to know how we could afford it - and his explanation that the office had given him a bonus while he was Seattle.
At one time on that journey along the Columbia he tells me about an Island in the middle of the river.
I remember this trip because WA was a state I had not been to and I had never been to Tahoe. My family had gone on a Western vacation, but my mother became ill so we didn't make it to WA and turned around just inside of the CA. state line and headed home. I was 13 or 14 yrs old.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 stated:
--------------------------------
I do not try to dress up the story - I just tell it like it happened and what I remember.
The co-incidences are just too many and some of them I am unable to talk about at this time as they are part of what is going on.
QuoteJo has such an engaging way of telling a story. I can just picture Cooper motoring along in a stolen boat even though there is no evidence that it happened.
The idea that Cooper landed in a place where he knew every power line route and could recognize and distinguish between various tower routes is sure one heck of a coincidence. What are the odds?
--------------------------------
I do not try to dress up the story - I just tell it like it happened and what I remember.
The co-incidences are just too many and some of them I am unable to talk about at this time as they are part of what is going on.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
Coincidences happen all the time.
Look how many times I (or Snow) has picked up a South African connection to stuff we have talked about on the forum.
Hmm..maybe that's not just coincidence!
Hey..maybe Cooper was South African! 
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 22
QuoteI am also wondering if someone can keep on accusing (repeatedly and in a public forum) a federal employee of lying about doing their job,, without repercussions when the person has no first hand (if any) knowledge that said employee is actually lying. When does this become slander?
It might already be slander technically, but what damages could Carr prove he has suffered as a result? If the slanderer has minimal credibility among the audience to which the slander was directed, then the damages are arguably "de minimus" i.e. essentially nothing. Jo needn't lose sleep over any possible slander suits.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
It sure is easy to piss on people who take a clear stand.
Okay, georger, you go, then.
Revenge of The Middle Ground, the Way of No Way. :)
Okay, georger, you go, then.
Revenge of The Middle Ground, the Way of No Way. :)
Orange1 0
QuoteQuoteI am also wondering if someone can keep on accusing (repeatedly and in a public forum) a federal employee of lying about doing their job,, without repercussions when the person has no first hand (if any) knowledge that said employee is actually lying. When does this become slander?
It might already be slander technically, but what damages could Carr prove he has suffered as a result? If the slanderer has minimal credibility among the audience to which the slander was directed, then the damages are arguably "de minimus" i.e. essentially nothing. Jo needn't lose sleep over any possible slander suits.
377
gotcha!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
re slander.
Snowmman is a liar and a thief. An adulterer and a pimp. He wipes without paper, and blows his nose into his sleeve. He cheated in 6th grade. He took candy from an open vending machine, drives without a license. Burns wood on clear-the-air days. He posts drivel to DZ.com, and doesn't change oil on 2-stroke engines at the recommended intervals. He thinks underwear has two sides for a reason. He's a slanderer, a slacker, a gadabout. If there are two sides to the coin, he'll create a third for the sake of argument. He's wanted in 13 states, not wanted in the rest, and has his passport stamped from all the countries listed in Part 746. He's on the Denied Persons List, the Entity list, the Unverified list, and the Debarred list. He flys without luggage, and drinks coffee without milk.
Snowmman is a liar and a thief. An adulterer and a pimp. He wipes without paper, and blows his nose into his sleeve. He cheated in 6th grade. He took candy from an open vending machine, drives without a license. Burns wood on clear-the-air days. He posts drivel to DZ.com, and doesn't change oil on 2-stroke engines at the recommended intervals. He thinks underwear has two sides for a reason. He's a slanderer, a slacker, a gadabout. If there are two sides to the coin, he'll create a third for the sake of argument. He's wanted in 13 states, not wanted in the rest, and has his passport stamped from all the countries listed in Part 746. He's on the Denied Persons List, the Entity list, the Unverified list, and the Debarred list. He flys without luggage, and drinks coffee without milk.
Orange states:
Orange and all, I only know what I am told and I am repeating what I was told. I have a copy of the notarized statement the night clerk provided to the Portland FBI office. Carr did wks later call the night clerk only after I commented he had NOT acknowledged the notarized statement nor mentioned this witness going into the Portland Office or to this forum.
As for Slander - I can prove what I have said about the Night Clerk and the FBI knows this. I can also Prove another agent lied to me in 2000. You forget the times he chastized me - in this forum.
Remember he promised to send me the files and claimed he thought I already had them - hence he made the criminal record (limited) available in this forum. Remember all of the other statements he made that were only his ideas or opinions and not the facts of the case? Would you just call those his impressions or that he lied about these things?
What you said indicates our government can say and do whatever they want (which they do over and over). It also indicates that I as a citizen have no rights (what rights we have are slowly being taken away).
To believe our government and it employees have never lied to the pubic equates with believing in Fairy Tales.
Do you know how many government officials thru out the US as of these last few yrs have gone to prison for mulitple crimes involving fraud, theft, violations of rules and regulations, felony, grand theft, misuse of their government position, falsification of documents, etc? The list is endless and more and more officials are being added to the enormous list daily.
The people of America are saying "No More - this has to stop" . We have to be able to trust our elected officials and government employees - but, that is not the case anymore. Dirty politics and greed dictate now. They usually go for yrs before they are caught and then their penalties are less than it would be if a regular citizen had commited the same crime in a private or non-government entity.
So off subject again - Right! Your mention of Slander gave me reason to stand up for MY RIGHTS.
QuoteI thought Carr said they took the interview over the phone? I don't recall anything about the clerk showing up at the office.
I am also wondering if someone can keep on accusing (repeatedly and in a public forum) a federal employee of lying about doing their job,, without repercussions when the person has no first hand (if any) knowledge that said employee is actually lying. When does this become slander?
Orange and all, I only know what I am told and I am repeating what I was told. I have a copy of the notarized statement the night clerk provided to the Portland FBI office. Carr did wks later call the night clerk only after I commented he had NOT acknowledged the notarized statement nor mentioned this witness going into the Portland Office or to this forum.
As for Slander - I can prove what I have said about the Night Clerk and the FBI knows this. I can also Prove another agent lied to me in 2000. You forget the times he chastized me - in this forum.
Remember he promised to send me the files and claimed he thought I already had them - hence he made the criminal record (limited) available in this forum. Remember all of the other statements he made that were only his ideas or opinions and not the facts of the case? Would you just call those his impressions or that he lied about these things?
What you said indicates our government can say and do whatever they want (which they do over and over). It also indicates that I as a citizen have no rights (what rights we have are slowly being taken away).
To believe our government and it employees have never lied to the pubic equates with believing in Fairy Tales.
Do you know how many government officials thru out the US as of these last few yrs have gone to prison for mulitple crimes involving fraud, theft, violations of rules and regulations, felony, grand theft, misuse of their government position, falsification of documents, etc? The list is endless and more and more officials are being added to the enormous list daily.
The people of America are saying "No More - this has to stop" . We have to be able to trust our elected officials and government employees - but, that is not the case anymore. Dirty politics and greed dictate now. They usually go for yrs before they are caught and then their penalties are less than it would be if a regular citizen had commited the same crime in a private or non-government entity.
So off subject again - Right! Your mention of Slander gave me reason to stand up for MY RIGHTS.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
QuoteWhat you said indicates our government can say and do whatever they want (which they do over and over). It also indicates that I as a citizen have no rights (what rights we have are slowly being taken away).
Jo,
I doubt if someone as conservative as you could stomach it, but you should join the ACLU. They sue the FBI and other govt agencies all the time over constitutional rights violations and sometimes they win. They do some wacky lawsuits but many address the very issues that concern you.
Nobody else takes on the US government with top notch lawyers and pushes the limits like they do. Without legal opposition to govt abuse, the Bill of Rights would be ancient history by now instead of established law.
Under most circumstances, cops still need search warrants to enter your house. Were it not for the ACLU, they'd have a set of your keys at the local station and the right to search at will.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
there are folks who seem to think the right to bear arms is critical to their enjoyment of life.
Something to ponder: what about the right to free communications worldwide?
What if someone took away your internet? Either directly or indirectly, say disabling half the internet (say anything connected to right wing nutcase jobs)....or making sure all email was easily tappable by the NSA? ..or charging $200/month for internet access?
I have this funny image of the NRA forming a "right to communicate" lobby. So they could talk freely about guns.
Guns are so passe nowadays.
NRA should focus on real weapons. (i.e. one's brain and ability to communicate)
Something to ponder: what about the right to free communications worldwide?
What if someone took away your internet? Either directly or indirectly, say disabling half the internet (say anything connected to right wing nutcase jobs)....or making sure all email was easily tappable by the NSA? ..or charging $200/month for internet access?
I have this funny image of the NRA forming a "right to communicate" lobby. So they could talk freely about guns.
Guns are so passe nowadays.
NRA should focus on real weapons. (i.e. one's brain and ability to communicate)
377 22
Quote....or making sure all email was easily tappable by the NSA?
Who ya gonna call? FEDBUSTERS! (ACLU)
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/nsa/aclunsa81706opn.pdf
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteGuns are so passe nowadays.
NRA should focus on real weapons.
yeah, they are passe, but ya can't sit on your couch dressed in CAMMO, watching right wing conspiracy shows on your big screen and gaze at your WiFi router the same way you can gaze upon your open gun safe and savor its manly contents.
Snow, we gotta figure out a way to market free speech and communication and make it as appealing as weapons.
Any ideas?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteGuns are so passe nowadays.
NRA should focus on real weapons.
yeah, they are passe, but ya can't sit on your couch dressed in CAMMO, watching right wing conspiracy shows on your big screen and gaze at your WiFi router the same way you can gaze upon your open gun safe and savor its manly contents.
Snow, we gotta figure out a way to market free speech and communication and make it as appealing as weapons.
Any ideas?
377
When they set up that thing in Texas? Where you could aim a gun remotely using the internet, and actually shoot at animals if they appeared, I thought that might help...
Hmm. I'll have to ponder it.
Hey I didn't mention the universal conspiracy theory.
Remember the Ramparts article from Braden? The cover of that issue has John Lennon, shot in the abdomen. (he's in his antiwar movie, in WWI or II uniform).
Search the internet for
Mark Chapman
CIA
MK-ULTRA
Vacaville
SLA
and you can see how it's all tied together. I knew 377 was mentioning SLA for a reason.
Eldridge Cleaver was a Ramparts editor. So Panthers are there too.
With Ramparts we can now tie the assassination of John Lennon, with the hijacking of Flight 305.
Bruce was right. Hopefully he's able to explain it all on Coast to Coast. May need to throw back some bourbons first.
377 22
Quotesee how it's all tied together
yup. Ties, it's all about ties.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
I agree with you Georger. The key is to stay focused on what Cooper did and how he did it.
Asking other jumpers, airbornes soldiers, etc. if they would do the jump is really a distraction - it leads the mind and the investigation away from the cetntral clue: who Cooper was.
To whit: Can we tell, based upon Cooper's actions, did Danny think he was prepared to jump successfully?
I say yes: He was calm, generally, all throughout the 2.5 hours cicling Sea-Tac, plus the hours on the ground and then in the air.
Albeit, he got cranky with the re-fueling provocations and delays, and he got child-like when he saw the money, but all indications are that Danny was satisfied with his plan, the parachutes provided, the weather, the DZ, and all the rest.
Eight Raleigh's and a boubon and 7-Up seems reasonable for a guy doing a long-haul, multi-hour crime.
Cooper was on center stage for what, five hours? That's a long time to be on the hot-seat. He never broke a sweat. To me, that is incredibly important.
So, what kind of person can do that?
Psychotics? Nope; they'd never be able to keep their act together for five hours. Maybe five minutes, but that's all.
Folks who know it's an inside job and their safety is guaranteed? Yeah, but that takes us into some nebulous areas. Let's save this option until I have more on MKULTRA and the de-sensitization of SOG vets and Special Forces.
The stoic calm of those who are well-trained, smart, prepared, and who have extreme confidnece in their abilities?
Yup. I go for the later. Danny displayed all the qualities of a seasoned SOG vet. Rain, forest canopies, HALO conditions, cold, dark, enemies all around, no friendlies anywhere - sure sounds like another day at the office for a SOG trooper. Billy Waugh agrees with that assessment, and I put great weight on Billy's persepctives. I protested the ying-yang out of the Vietnam War, but Billy's seven tours of duty and eight purple hearts give him tremendous credibility in this area.
Now, there is one more cateogry of potential mind-set that we can add, namely, some one who has a degree of training and expertise but has also had their personality fractured so that they are de-sensitized to certain dangers.
They can still function at a high degree in most circumstances, and since their anxieties have been corralled a bit they might be able to do some remarkable things for a short period of time.
Someone like Barb characterizes this group. McCoy has some of these qualities, too. He did okay on the jump, but was lousy on his end game.
To compare Danny to "regular" folks and conclude that Danny was inept, stupid, and possessed a death-wish, etc. is a central, fundamental persepctive that shapes all of one's subsequent investigation. How an investigator views Cooper determines everything else.
Further, the FBI's turn-around, where once they thought Danny was a SOG vet or Pierce County skydiver clearly shows that they considered his crime to be a remarkbale acheivement - smart, clever, original, well-planned and well-executed.
For my money, the fact that they have now done a 180 says more about their need to put a new spin on the case than it does about any new insights they have garnered into Cooper's state of mind, training and capacities.
It's like a shell game. "See everyone - no one else would have done the jump in loafers, Cooper was a stupid nut case." Move the rationales fast enough and one might miss other possibilites, and the truth.
Heck, for all we know Danny was a paraplegic with titanium legs and feet.
Silly? Wild? Yeah, but.........what if?
And there are a dozen more possibilites that come to my mind, but we'll save further discussion of those scenarios for another evening's post.
In the meantime, let's dig a little deeper into the details of what Cooper said, did, express, etc. He has all the clues we need. Not many, granted, but we can find the kernels of truth that we need. We can do this. I am convinced.
Asking other jumpers, airbornes soldiers, etc. if they would do the jump is really a distraction - it leads the mind and the investigation away from the cetntral clue: who Cooper was.
To whit: Can we tell, based upon Cooper's actions, did Danny think he was prepared to jump successfully?
I say yes: He was calm, generally, all throughout the 2.5 hours cicling Sea-Tac, plus the hours on the ground and then in the air.
Albeit, he got cranky with the re-fueling provocations and delays, and he got child-like when he saw the money, but all indications are that Danny was satisfied with his plan, the parachutes provided, the weather, the DZ, and all the rest.
Eight Raleigh's and a boubon and 7-Up seems reasonable for a guy doing a long-haul, multi-hour crime.
Cooper was on center stage for what, five hours? That's a long time to be on the hot-seat. He never broke a sweat. To me, that is incredibly important.
So, what kind of person can do that?
Psychotics? Nope; they'd never be able to keep their act together for five hours. Maybe five minutes, but that's all.
Folks who know it's an inside job and their safety is guaranteed? Yeah, but that takes us into some nebulous areas. Let's save this option until I have more on MKULTRA and the de-sensitization of SOG vets and Special Forces.
The stoic calm of those who are well-trained, smart, prepared, and who have extreme confidnece in their abilities?
Yup. I go for the later. Danny displayed all the qualities of a seasoned SOG vet. Rain, forest canopies, HALO conditions, cold, dark, enemies all around, no friendlies anywhere - sure sounds like another day at the office for a SOG trooper. Billy Waugh agrees with that assessment, and I put great weight on Billy's persepctives. I protested the ying-yang out of the Vietnam War, but Billy's seven tours of duty and eight purple hearts give him tremendous credibility in this area.
Now, there is one more cateogry of potential mind-set that we can add, namely, some one who has a degree of training and expertise but has also had their personality fractured so that they are de-sensitized to certain dangers.
They can still function at a high degree in most circumstances, and since their anxieties have been corralled a bit they might be able to do some remarkable things for a short period of time.
Someone like Barb characterizes this group. McCoy has some of these qualities, too. He did okay on the jump, but was lousy on his end game.
To compare Danny to "regular" folks and conclude that Danny was inept, stupid, and possessed a death-wish, etc. is a central, fundamental persepctive that shapes all of one's subsequent investigation. How an investigator views Cooper determines everything else.
Further, the FBI's turn-around, where once they thought Danny was a SOG vet or Pierce County skydiver clearly shows that they considered his crime to be a remarkbale acheivement - smart, clever, original, well-planned and well-executed.
For my money, the fact that they have now done a 180 says more about their need to put a new spin on the case than it does about any new insights they have garnered into Cooper's state of mind, training and capacities.
It's like a shell game. "See everyone - no one else would have done the jump in loafers, Cooper was a stupid nut case." Move the rationales fast enough and one might miss other possibilites, and the truth.
Heck, for all we know Danny was a paraplegic with titanium legs and feet.
Silly? Wild? Yeah, but.........what if?
And there are a dozen more possibilites that come to my mind, but we'll save further discussion of those scenarios for another evening's post.
In the meantime, let's dig a little deeper into the details of what Cooper said, did, express, etc. He has all the clues we need. Not many, granted, but we can find the kernels of truth that we need. We can do this. I am convinced.
snowmman 3
We talked before about how McCoy really didn't have that much freefall experience
Here's a news article from April 11, 1972 quoting his instructor, after his initial arrest
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bT8NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xGwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4757,1370571&dq=hijacking+parachute+jumped
"McCoy an amateur skydiver, was described by his parachute instructor as being only mildly expert at the sport and had never jumped at night"
(remember McCoy's jump was at night)
We talked about when he started freefall, and his relatively low number of jumps at the time of the hijack.
Just wanted to reiterate, that unlike what Larry Carr tried to argue, McCoy was how a newb would do it.
The FBI should say that. "McCoy was a newb."
It would cleanse their minds.
Here's a news article from April 11, 1972 quoting his instructor, after his initial arrest
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bT8NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xGwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4757,1370571&dq=hijacking+parachute+jumped
"McCoy an amateur skydiver, was described by his parachute instructor as being only mildly expert at the sport and had never jumped at night"
(remember McCoy's jump was at night)
We talked about when he started freefall, and his relatively low number of jumps at the time of the hijack.
Just wanted to reiterate, that unlike what Larry Carr tried to argue, McCoy was how a newb would do it.
The FBI should say that. "McCoy was a newb."
It would cleanse their minds.
I think that the profile the FBI developed after all of these yrs - is influenced too much by the profilers that know absolutely nothing about the 60's and 70's. The young people are unable to know what some of the old timers know from that era - and it makes a difference.
Cooper was calm on the outside, but the reasons that put him on that plane in the first place were personal. He was going to even a score or die doing it.
The FBI orginally looked at ex-cons, but they were looking for someone who had experience that would have been recorded. If Cooper had experience that would have identified him - he would have worn a disquise and everything would have been more planned out. This guy was actually winging it...he didn't have a damn thing to loose. He already considered himself a looser and a well experienced jumper would have made a diffent approach.
Do any of you think for one moment considering Coopers re-action to the delivery of the money that he ACTUALLY believed he was going to pull this off?
After the child-like response he realizes he has to go thru with this. I wonder what was going thru his mind...I believe he was thinking "I know this can be done because I was involved with people who actually did it - if they can do it I can do it". " F---- piece of cake if I die - so what, no one is going to miss me - I have screwed-up my life and everyone who has been in it."
He had not seen his brother or sister since the 50's and they did not even know where he was or if he was still alive....no one would miss him.
When Cooper was looking out that window (regardless of the cloud cover) he was looking for land marks that would help him to orient himself...feeling that if he landed within his area of knowledge he at least had a chance. I can tell you that Cooper did not walk down that aft stair facing the opening - he backed down it holding onto the stairway - and then finally had to let go and when he let go he let out a scream knowing he was going to die. By going out backward that is probably what helped him to survive the jump. Now I know some of you experience divers are going to disagree with this.
Consider the kind of chute he had and that he was holding on to a bundle he had secured to himself - he had to have that bundle infront of him. I believe this because of the nightmare Duane had when he grabbed upward like he was holding on to something. That kind of position would only have been likely if he backed down the stairs and was holding on - but then got torn away from his grasp. He had on leather gloves.
He had on ankle snap rubbers over his zipped ankle boots (the zipper was on the inside). Mitchell the student sitting across form him who refused to move claimed to see somthing sticking out from under his pants (I have personally interviewed this withness) - so he may have had on long underwear. His build seemed to be "Compact" and that description leads me to believe he had something around his middle and upper chest under the jacket and rain coat...a back brace or an apparatus or some other device.
If you will note his release photos from Canon City you will notice that even then he was wearing boots. Those boots he was released in had seen their better days. His shoe of choice was always the ankle boot with a zipper - except in later yrs. He wore loafters only for dress.
The language that was used was prison language, but he was polite. Again Duane fit that - I wish there was a video of him in a meeting or making a presentation - but none exist. The only video was after his decline with the kidney disease - and he made a point to stay away from the camera and far into the background. In this video it is obvious he only got into position for pictures he was required to be in. This was a family event and yet he still tried to stay away from the camera.
One thing we are chasing right now - in 1969 Duane worked for the Bourbon Orleans and they left for Atlanta in the throes of Hurricane Camile heading away from the hurricane. One of the ex-wife's older sons was with them at that time and drove one car with Duane driving the other.
While in New Orleans there had been some "incidents" involving his family and our current focus is investigating the involvement of individuals who may have remained in contact with Duane and his family after they went to Atlanta. At first in Atlanta he worked for a club there except there was NO W2 - so that meant he was doing work under the John Collins name and the Duane Weber name - for 2 yrs he used BOTH SS numbers. Selling insurance under Duane Weber and God only knows what under the John Collins name.
The FBI was NOT helpful - and to my knowledge they never investigated his employment under the John C. Collins SS number...WHY? Yet, I provide the names of 2 places he was know to work for which there were no taxes filed on in 1969 and 1970 under the name Duane L. Weber.
We have been busy, but there is just so much we can do without the assistance of the FBI and their access to the SS records under both names. The FBI was not interested in his were abouts during 1945 to 1949.
During the above 1945 - to 1949 and the yrs between 1962 and 1966 lies Duane's knowledge of the N.W. This man knew every road and every power line and hills and the names of clubs and did not need a map the entire time we were there. You do not learn an area like that unless you have spent a great deal of time and worked the area. The FBI has NOT been interested in this obvious back ground. My focus has been those yrs and it is paying off. I even put out the fact that he may have helped to build the pipelines and powerlines or worked in the area building airports and airstrips - since he also knew where the airstrips were located - he pointed out airstrips I couldn't even see, but i now know that these strip were indeed located there in 1971. It was the same with cemeteries.
The books that seemed so important are also of co-incidental concern. Unusual books for a man to have an attachment too.
Enough of my boring dribble, but I have a lot to do in a short time and I refuse to let the US.Gov win this one.
Cooper was calm on the outside, but the reasons that put him on that plane in the first place were personal. He was going to even a score or die doing it.
The FBI orginally looked at ex-cons, but they were looking for someone who had experience that would have been recorded. If Cooper had experience that would have identified him - he would have worn a disquise and everything would have been more planned out. This guy was actually winging it...he didn't have a damn thing to loose. He already considered himself a looser and a well experienced jumper would have made a diffent approach.
Do any of you think for one moment considering Coopers re-action to the delivery of the money that he ACTUALLY believed he was going to pull this off?
After the child-like response he realizes he has to go thru with this. I wonder what was going thru his mind...I believe he was thinking "I know this can be done because I was involved with people who actually did it - if they can do it I can do it". " F---- piece of cake if I die - so what, no one is going to miss me - I have screwed-up my life and everyone who has been in it."
He had not seen his brother or sister since the 50's and they did not even know where he was or if he was still alive....no one would miss him.
When Cooper was looking out that window (regardless of the cloud cover) he was looking for land marks that would help him to orient himself...feeling that if he landed within his area of knowledge he at least had a chance. I can tell you that Cooper did not walk down that aft stair facing the opening - he backed down it holding onto the stairway - and then finally had to let go and when he let go he let out a scream knowing he was going to die. By going out backward that is probably what helped him to survive the jump. Now I know some of you experience divers are going to disagree with this.
Consider the kind of chute he had and that he was holding on to a bundle he had secured to himself - he had to have that bundle infront of him. I believe this because of the nightmare Duane had when he grabbed upward like he was holding on to something. That kind of position would only have been likely if he backed down the stairs and was holding on - but then got torn away from his grasp. He had on leather gloves.
He had on ankle snap rubbers over his zipped ankle boots (the zipper was on the inside). Mitchell the student sitting across form him who refused to move claimed to see somthing sticking out from under his pants (I have personally interviewed this withness) - so he may have had on long underwear. His build seemed to be "Compact" and that description leads me to believe he had something around his middle and upper chest under the jacket and rain coat...a back brace or an apparatus or some other device.
If you will note his release photos from Canon City you will notice that even then he was wearing boots. Those boots he was released in had seen their better days. His shoe of choice was always the ankle boot with a zipper - except in later yrs. He wore loafters only for dress.
The language that was used was prison language, but he was polite. Again Duane fit that - I wish there was a video of him in a meeting or making a presentation - but none exist. The only video was after his decline with the kidney disease - and he made a point to stay away from the camera and far into the background. In this video it is obvious he only got into position for pictures he was required to be in. This was a family event and yet he still tried to stay away from the camera.
One thing we are chasing right now - in 1969 Duane worked for the Bourbon Orleans and they left for Atlanta in the throes of Hurricane Camile heading away from the hurricane. One of the ex-wife's older sons was with them at that time and drove one car with Duane driving the other.
While in New Orleans there had been some "incidents" involving his family and our current focus is investigating the involvement of individuals who may have remained in contact with Duane and his family after they went to Atlanta. At first in Atlanta he worked for a club there except there was NO W2 - so that meant he was doing work under the John Collins name and the Duane Weber name - for 2 yrs he used BOTH SS numbers. Selling insurance under Duane Weber and God only knows what under the John Collins name.
The FBI was NOT helpful - and to my knowledge they never investigated his employment under the John C. Collins SS number...WHY? Yet, I provide the names of 2 places he was know to work for which there were no taxes filed on in 1969 and 1970 under the name Duane L. Weber.
We have been busy, but there is just so much we can do without the assistance of the FBI and their access to the SS records under both names. The FBI was not interested in his were abouts during 1945 to 1949.
During the above 1945 - to 1949 and the yrs between 1962 and 1966 lies Duane's knowledge of the N.W. This man knew every road and every power line and hills and the names of clubs and did not need a map the entire time we were there. You do not learn an area like that unless you have spent a great deal of time and worked the area. The FBI has NOT been interested in this obvious back ground. My focus has been those yrs and it is paying off. I even put out the fact that he may have helped to build the pipelines and powerlines or worked in the area building airports and airstrips - since he also knew where the airstrips were located - he pointed out airstrips I couldn't even see, but i now know that these strip were indeed located there in 1971. It was the same with cemeteries.
The books that seemed so important are also of co-incidental concern. Unusual books for a man to have an attachment too.
Enough of my boring dribble, but I have a lot to do in a short time and I refuse to let the US.Gov win this one.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
He had gone to get the statement notarized and was going to mail it until he realized the FBI office was not too far away from where he was. There was NO appointment.
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