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quade

DB Cooper

By quade, in Skydiving History & Trivia

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377    22

377
Quote

It was aviation related and had to do with improper conduct of some kind by Mayfield that Ralph took major issue with. It was not a crime-related thing



Wonder what it was? Some jumpers thought Ted was not following safe practices for training student skydivers. He had a few fatalities as I recall.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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georger    244

georger
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I remember reading about the FBI's infiltration of AIM.

Brown contacts as a disguise may not be such a wild leap of faith. Wonder if it was a commonly used CIA or FBI disguise trick?

I wonder if Braden had a NORJACK alibi?

The Mayfield H relationship and the apparent lack of thoroughness in Ted M's alibi investigation needs further scrutiny.

I still think Braden makes a great Cooper but for the eyes.

Galen Cook is awfully quiet... Tom K too. I bet Ckret still reads this forum though he can no longer post.

Quote



I called Ted Mayfield back in the early spring to see if he would be willing to talk about his relationship with Ralph and the FBI.

Ralph, at one point in his book, says that Ted made valuable contributions to the FBI's investigation. I'd sure like to know what they were.

Ted ended the phone call as soon as I said I was a newspaper reporter doing a story on DB Cooper, saying "I always get in trouble when I talk about that."

I called him right back, and he answered. I quickly tried to tell him I wasn't interested in talking about his being a Cooper suspect, but only to talk about what he did for the FBI that was so valuable. Again he hung up saying "I'm really not interested in discussing this."

I haven't tried any further to contact him, but he is certainly on my Cooper Country road map to-do list when I have the bucks and time to make a big swing through Oregon terrain.

As for the relationship between Ralph and Teddy M, I read, but I forget where and don't want to dig through my notes at the moment, that Ralph and Ted Mayfield had an altercation at the Aurora (Oregon) State Airport several years before Cooper. It was aviation related and had to do with improper conduct of some kind by Mayfield that Ralph took major issue with. It was not a crime-related thing, but it got them in each other's roll-a-dex, apparently.

On a personal note, we have so many Teddys and Tinas. I love it.

Still waiting to hear back from Florence. No word from either channel. Until I get more definitive information on the eyes, I'm holding off on the Florida phone slog. My time is a bit short - I only have an afternoon or two a week to make phone calls, and the three-hour time diff makes a difference.

As for Galen, I had been in regular phone contact with him through the summer, and met him once in Olympia, WA for some brewski and converation. He was down in Cooper Country for four weeks, and did some buzzing around in BC, too. I last spoke with him two weeks ago and he was back in Anchorage, working on da book.

I've had two full responses from Tom Kaye on my emails to him this week regarding the Nat Geo stuff. He told me essentially what Jerry has posted here concerning Tom's views on the propellers, etc.

My sense of what Tom wrote to me is that he presented the propeller transport theory to Nat Geo as speculative, lacking any significant data, and was thrown together at the last minute.

He also said that he was abandoning any microscopic investigation of the money and had sent the bills back to Larry. He was, however, still following up on the pollen angle.

As for Nat Geo, if they stonewall me I'm going to ask my mother to call the chief producer to ask why they are being so rude to her Sonny Boy. When my mom gets worked-up, well, let's just say that grown men have been known to cry.

For example:

After the black-box-digital-analogue-conversion thing this year, she's already steamed up about anything having to do with TV, Cable, or any fancy-schmansy electronic stuff. (Gawd- you should have seen her in Sears returning her first try at the conversion box last December when I was home for Christmas. Whew.....it wasn't pretty. She ended up talking to the store manager at his home on a day off. Go Mom! Caution: Momma Bears? - you don't want to, ahem, mess with them. Grrrrr.)

So, Nat Geo, if you're listening, consider yourselves duly informed.



I didnt mean to be sharp with you concerning names
... sorry if it came across that way. Its just that some
have spent a long time on all of this and names pretty get ordained, become icons, eg Teddy vs a
Ted. Teddy as in Teddy Mayfield aka Teddy Bear.
All of this has historical background you could
only know if you've been here (involved) a while.

Some feel Myers and Dvorak and a TV station
not worth mentioning did a real number
on Ted Mayfield. Some were surprised Ted didnt
sue the hell out of all concerned. Its one thing to
be investigating - its quite another to be promoting
and making public allegations which harm a
person's life.

Jerry knows all about Teddy and H. Maybe Jerry
will explain a few things to you off record - or
maybe he won't. Jerry's choice. It sufficies to
say Ted Mayfield was investigated thoroughly,
over time, independent of Ralph Himmeslbach,
and Mr. Mayfield came out clean in the Cooper
case. These are of course just my opinions...

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JerryThomas    0

JerryThomas
Yes You are correct. And I thank you for that comment.My intention's has never been anything but to guide and help all. I only want to give and never take to advise when I can Yes I am 58 years young as of the 2nd of september. Shelly is 40 years young as of the 11th of September and I am proud to say that on the 12th of september Shelly and I have been together 24 Yr's . Will Im bragging about Shelly and our aniversery. But It make's me feel great because most marriages only last 5 yr's . still proud to be her husband. Jerry

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377    22

377
Am I so tired that I getting the math wrong... or was Shelly 16 when you married her Jerry?

Congratulations on 24 years together! That's quite an accomplshment.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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skyjack71    0

skyjack71
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Jo please give someone a break you have stated more than once that you have talked to Flo .This I can Prove. I do not understand why you are denying this fact. Or did you foget you even bragged about talking to Flo And Tina. One more thing where does Flo live. I bet you Know the answer. Could it be in the same state you live in.You continue to present opposition. This is common in all However most do not continue to embarass them selve's once chalenged with fact's and reality .For instance DNA result's. And Actual evidence that a person could not have been who they claim that they were. Especially after made up stories were proven Fradulent. Go Figure. Jerry



You are full of you know what.
I have never claimed to talk to Florence and yes, I know where she lives...don't have the address or phone number. No way anyone can prove I made up anything, because I keep to the truth unless it was exploring a theory which I don't do anymore.

You need a reality check.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71    0

skyjack71
Georger states:

I didnt mean to be sharp with you concerning names
... sorry if it came across that way. Its just that some
have spent a long time on all of this and names pretty get ordained, become icons, eg Teddy vs a
Ted. Teddy as in Teddy Mayfield aka Teddy Bear.
All of this has historical background you could
only know if you've been here (involved) a while.

Some feel Myers and Dvorak and a TV station
not worth mentioning did a real number
on Ted Mayfield. Some were surprised Ted didnt
sue the hell out of all concerned. Its one thing to
be investigating - its quite another to be promoting
and making public allegations which harm a
person's life.

Jerry knows all about Teddy and H. Maybe Jerry
will explain a few things to you off record - or
maybe he won't. Jerry's choice. It sufficies to
say Ted Mayfield was investigated thoroughly,
over time, independent of Ralph Himmeslbach,
and Mr. Mayfield came out clean in the Cooper
case. These are of course just my opinions...

Jo Agrees;
Georger my conversations with Mayfield had good results - he is OK. and so is his wife. Mayfield I believe was used by some ruthless individuals - whom I have personally had to deal with and it was not fun.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Orange1    0

Orange1
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Quote

Hey Jo, you don't like the Mayfield theory. Tell you what - why don't you prove to us that mayfield wasn't Cooper? You keep challenging others to prove Duane wasn't Cooper, so presumably you will find it easy to prove Mayfield wasn't.

When you've done that, move on to Braden please.

I look forward to seeing your results.



I have spoke with Ted Mayfield in the past on several occassions and he is not Cooper. These guys convinced him that there was money to be made with a book and a movie. He was also told no one would prosecute Cooper after all of these yr. which all of you know is NOT true.
Mayfield is a good sport, but when all of this started to play on his personal life he pulled out.

Mayfield likes to play games, but not if it engangers his enjoyment of life and his freedom... I would like to meet him in person. And like Guru - he will tell you "I am not Cooper".



Um, where's the proof Jo? He certainly wouldn't be the first criminal to deny a crime. Just because you say he isn't, and he says he isn't, doesn't count as proof. Still waiting. Thanks.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Orange1    0

Orange1
Quote

Quote

It was aviation related and had to do with improper conduct of some kind by Mayfield that Ralph took major issue with. It was not a crime-related thing



Wonder what it was? Some jumpers thought Ted was not following safe practices for training student skydivers. He had a few fatalities as I recall.

377



Bruce, thanks for all that feedback.

377, there was stuff on Mayfield on the old thread... I was the one who dug up the negligent homicide stuff there, but IIRC that came after Cooper. What Bruce said about M & H's prior interaction does ring a bell. It may be on the old thread too, or I may have read that on one of the other forums.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Orange1    0

Orange1
A post by Safe from the old thread. I reproduced it in its entirety.

Since no one was willing to make a post regarding Mayfield and why he may have been Cooper, I'll do it myself.

1. He called the FBI the night Norjack was born. Mayfield disputed this and said the FBI sought him out and he spoke with various agents at least 3 times. Some criminals have wanted to be part of the efforts to solve the very crime they committed. Perhaps Mayfield followed the same pattern or perhaps he purposely called the FBI to create an alibi.
The person who suggested that maybe it was a confederate of Mayfield who called had a good idea, however, if this was the case, the confederate might have wanted to call while Mayfield was still in the air as to make his alibi even more rock solid.

The call in question was placed between 90 & 120 minutes following the jump (9:41 to 10:11 pm).

2. Mayfied WAS a military paratrooper before he became a world class skydiver. He was a world class skydiver at the time of the crime.

3. Mayfield lived very close to PDX in Nov 71. He could have walked to the airport without using a taxicab, bus, or vehicle.

4. Allegedly Mayfield was broke and in finanical ruin at the time of the crime. This aspect has not been explained.

5. From what I've heard, Mayfield and some partners purchased a sizable property in 1972 to run a business out of. Assuming #4 is correct, this would tend to infer that his partners did not have the cash for the downpayment (or was it purchased outright?) to get this business up and running.

6. Mayfield has been convicted of armed robbery & flying a stolen plane across state lines.

7. At least 12 people wanting to help the FBI with leads called the FBI and told them to look into Mayfield because they felt he had the expertise and the criminal intent to pull it off.

8. He allegedly lied about his whereabouts the night of the crime. However we haven't heard anything further about this.

9. A 1974 photo of Mayfield matches the Shaffner sketch of 1988, complete with strong widows peak (or male patterned baldness as one DZ poster described it).

Since this post was in response to the various people, myself included, to please outline the reasons why DD feels 99% confident that Mayfield was Cooper, I have some questions of my own...
1. This has been researched thoroughly? Then please post some information regarding the property purchase. What were the terms of sale? Who financed it? What partners, if any, were involved? Was there any other type of loan that Mayfield obtained during this time (such as SBA)?
2. Please post the 1974 picture.
3. Please explain the alibi that he lied about.
4. Please give some reasoning behind the basis of his dire straights in 1971... for example, eye witness says he was evicted, there's a bankruptcy on his record in 71, he sold off his possessions in 71, something.
5. Please post anything I've omitted or have errored.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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georger    244

georger
Quote

A post by Safe from the old thread. I reproduced it in its entirety.

Since no one was willing to make a post regarding Mayfield and why he may have been Cooper, I'll do it myself.

1. He called the FBI the night Norjack was born. Mayfield disputed this and said the FBI sought him out and he spoke with various agents at least 3 times. Some criminals have wanted to be part of the efforts to solve the very crime they committed. Perhaps Mayfield followed the same pattern or perhaps he purposely called the FBI to create an alibi.
The person who suggested that maybe it was a confederate of Mayfield who called had a good idea, however, if this was the case, the confederate might have wanted to call while Mayfield was still in the air as to make his alibi even more rock solid.

The call in question was placed between 90 & 120 minutes following the jump (9:41 to 10:11 pm).

2. Mayfied WAS a military paratrooper before he became a world class skydiver. He was a world class skydiver at the time of the crime.

3. Mayfield lived very close to PDX in Nov 71. He could have walked to the airport without using a taxicab, bus, or vehicle.

4. Allegedly Mayfield was broke and in finanical ruin at the time of the crime. This aspect has not been explained.

5. From what I've heard, Mayfield and some partners purchased a sizable property in 1972 to run a business out of. Assuming #4 is correct, this would tend to infer that his partners did not have the cash for the downpayment (or was it purchased outright?) to get this business up and running.

6. Mayfield has been convicted of armed robbery & flying a stolen plane across state lines.

7. At least 12 people wanting to help the FBI with leads called the FBI and told them to look into Mayfield because they felt he had the expertise and the criminal intent to pull it off.

8. He allegedly lied about his whereabouts the night of the crime. However we haven't heard anything further about this.

9. A 1974 photo of Mayfield matches the Shaffner sketch of 1988, complete with strong widows peak (or male patterned baldness as one DZ poster described it).

Since this post was in response to the various people, myself included, to please outline the reasons why DD feels 99% confident that Mayfield was Cooper, I have some questions of my own...
1. This has been researched thoroughly? Then please post some information regarding the property purchase. What were the terms of sale? Who financed it? What partners, if any, were involved? Was there any other type of loan that Mayfield obtained during this time (such as SBA)?
2. Please post the 1974 picture.
3. Please explain the alibi that he lied about.
4. Please give some reasoning behind the basis of his dire straights in 1971... for example, eye witness says he was evicted, there's a bankruptcy on his record in 71, he sold off his possessions in 71, something.
5. Please post anything I've omitted or have errored.



You refer to Websleuth Forum where Dvorak &
Myers introduced their Mayfield scenario in tandem
with _ _ _ _ TV airing their contentions. Then Dvorak
suddenly died, apparently (auto accident?). The
whole case collapsed amid controversy. Mayfield
was/is Mayor of his small community at the
time so there were strong political overtones.
The whole thing struck me as a textbook case
of bottomfeeding based on pure conjecture. B|

Posters at Websleuths handled the whole thing
well and remained objective, I thought. In fact
I was surprised at how objective posters remained
through it all - a plus in favor of poster objectivity
when it counts! Sluggo and Snowmman stood out
and handled it all well, I thought. Myers and Dvorak
left no doubt they were convinced and were dogged
in their pursuit of . . . . the truth?

As I remember this the whole thing came down
to four claims: (a) Mayfield had the skills to
do the crime (b) Mayfield called H shortly after
the hyjacking to assure H he had not done this
and was not involved, (c) some unexplained financial matters Dvorak/Myers claimed they had found in Ted's background, and (d) Myers and
Dvorak's claim of a criminal record in Mayfield's background?

Myers/Dvorak denied and/or skirted all issues of
the Cooper physical profile not applying to Mayfield.

Himmelsbach was interviewed by the media during
the Myers/Dvorak episode.

Last I knew you could still read the whole thing
at Websleuths. I havent checked lately - but
there may still be a vid about it at Yourtube?

I still don't underdstand why Mayfield didn't sue -

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snowmman    3

snowmman
just ran into this quote

"I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy."

Richard P. Feynman


That's the funny thing about the Cooper saga. It's not a scientific problem. It won't yield to thought or experiments.
Or Feynman. But he acknowledges it.

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Orange1    0

Orange1
um, i'm sure someone must have posted links to this site, but i don't recall it.
http://cooper71.com/
it's not fantastically organised - the "categories" is in alphabetical rather than logocal order - but has a number of links to suspects and other stuff.

eg the one on mayfield has a pic (when he was much older unfortunately) vs the cooper sketch as well as the various TV segments (the IE i referred to before appears to be Inside Edition)
http://cooper71.com/?cat=13
There are similar pages for Duane, Christiansen, Gosset and a couple of others as well as the cash, etc.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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georger    244

georger
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georger, not sure about all the issues you raise; it is definitely a fact that Mayfield has a criminal record however.



Why not just read it for yourself at Websleuth
rather than speculate and insinuate ?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44859&page=14

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49742

23.4 mb worth. (as a Word doc)

Myers and Dvorak were Leftcoast and Eastcoast.

Snowmman can post excerpts if he wants -
he was involved.

Better yet! Why dont you get Myers in on this.
He is here.

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snowmman    3

snowmman
I pushed Ckret a lot about the pipeline dredge issue, and posted a lot of info about pipeline dredges. Over time, I've come to realize that the FBI investigation is no better than anything we've done, and everything Ckret said can be ignored.

I'm back to thinking the dredge possibility does seem high probability, compared to other possibilities.

Here's an interesting thing:

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/sea/fed-permit/pdf/Decisions/SWRO/199901252P%20WQC%203320.pdf

page 5

This permit is an example of a pipeline dredging permit
(it's at the mouth of the Columbia, not near Portland)


2. All dredging is to be done using a pipeline dredge...

3. All debris (larger than 2 feet in any dimension) shall be removed from the dredged sediment prior to disposal. Similar sized debris found floating in the dredging or disposal area shall also be removed.


I've talked a lot about pipeline dredges, and the likely diameter of the one used in the Columbia River.

What do those two sentences above, suggest to you about the size of things that can pass thru pipeline dredges? (ones of appropriate large size)

Propellers, or Dredges...which of these things is more likely?
The Scientist says Propeller based on SEM analysis and tape measures.

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377    22

377
Can you imagine that ten page pile of bureaucracy being posted next to the NOAA channel chart for the Columbia on the bridge of the dredge?

Meanwhile the dredgermen just ignore the paper storm, dredge effectively caring primarily about channel depth rather than dissolved oxygen, turbidity, coliform levels and non compliant debris in the spoils. Someone signs the report with a wink, assuring that it was all done properly and the dredgermen celebrate weeks of work with a dinner at a nice riverside restaurant.

At the next table a drunk prosecutor brags loudly to anyone who will listen that he was ready to kick some hayseed DA's butt into the Columbia for trying to extradite some guy named Ingram on a bullshit warrant. The dredgermen ignore him.

They watch with pride as a huge bulk carrier ship works it's way upstream kicking up no mud in it's propwash. As they hoist another round of local brew, the channel is already shoaling up with sediment, imperceptibly bring bottom closer to surface. Their work is never done. The crewman who tending the discharge pipe recalls an odd flash of tangled white material which was only in his view for milliseconds.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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snowmman    3

snowmman
Quote


At the next table a drunk prosecutor brags loudly to anyone who will listen that he was ready to kick some hayseed DA's butt into the Columbia for trying to extradite some guy named Ingram on a bullshit warrant. The dredgermen ignore him.



Funny! I can see the scene.

Now THAT's the documentary I would have liked to see Nat Geo do....and in the back room, in the shadows...some guy with a suit, a clip-on tie, a receding hairline and blueish-green eyes, is talking in hushed tones with a CIA agent, something about Indians and terrorists and how they're likely funded by the Soviets and need to be taken down. An envelope is exchanged.

Then a bunch of journalists bang thru the front door, followed by Himmelsbach, loudly proclaiming a story of an ex-con and wind and certain death.

(edit) amazing the amount of material that permit covers. 400,000 yards over 10 years. Pretty easy to hide stuff in 400,000 yards of material!

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