DB Cooper

[georger 244]

Quote

georger,
Questions:

1. I sure agree there is no known forensic evidence
305 deviated much from V23 ... I want to be clear
this is what you are saying? I assume YES?

2. How do you account for the "bump" at ~8:12
as distinct from oscillations? Do you have a physical
explanation for the pressure bump, if it was a bump
which I guess it was? (Bump as distinct from surge?)

3. How do you account for Rat saying: 'I could
see the suburbs of Portland coming up...' ?

4. How and when do you think the money got to
T-Bar? Even a personal guess .... ?

5. You refer to Cooper's "occupation"? What did
you mean?
Answers:

1. I have not been able to cross reference any positional reporting with DME, station crossings with IAS or other aircraft performance data which would indicate a deviation greater than one minute or 4 nautical miles from ground truth. If a nav leg is 85 NM straight line, with a reported indicated airspeed of 170 knots with an elapsed time of 29 or 31 minutes, there remains very little wiggle room for serpentine flight patterns or throttle adjustments. The fortuitous extrapolated winds aloft made the flight profile the most reliable element of the journey. Imagine if Cooper actually had some pre determined intersection to fly towards which was not on the airways chart? He could have ordered any NavAid to any radial and DME without regard for terrain avoidance! Additionally, with a 'nut' in the back of the plane lighting cigarettes above half a dozen sticks of high explosive while sipping bourbon would mark the highest level of awareness achieved in my time on the planet. Your mileage may vary. Considering these collective stresses, I would imagine the airmanship demonstrated by this crew was among their finest.

2. This is the question to possibly narrow the time Cooper departed. There are two different adjectives used by the FO and the FE. One used oscillation which I interpret to mean pulse or asymmetric yaw as if Cooper was moving down the stairs, step by step at the extreme end of the aft CG. This is just my GUESS. During the sled launch after the hijacking, the FE remarked when the sled was dropped there was a distinct pressure bump and jump on the cabin pressure indicator similar to the one experienced the night of the hijacking. This would seem a logical result of the weight being relieved from the aft stair. I have not found any reference to what time or where this occurred during the flight. I also assumed, the person flying would have noticed the sudden need for some trim adjustments after dumping several hundred pounds from such an aft location. That's my long chicken guano cop out answer.

3. The lights of Portland from an aviators perspective may have been the byproduct of spotting the HIRL, runway end and sequence flashers from PDX, Troutdale and Hillsboro. Airport lights are designed to be visible to aircraft through fog where the typical suburban lights are lower intensity and pointed toward the ground. The weather at SEA was discussed as 5 to 5.5 thousand and broken with light and traffic reporting aircraft in the pattern. Cooper was quoted as recognizing the lights of Tacoma (I believe). After takeoff they were at 7,000 feet while lowering the stairs and made no mention of wanting to climb higher or any chop. They continued to 10,000 feet without mention of any weather considerations, just altimeter changes in a range of 29.91 to 30.03 inches. Yes, I believe there was rain and overcast; just not the thick, menacing, lightening generating gully washer type. Recall how Cooper is described as ordinary, nothing special yet is wearing wrap around sunglasses during a thick overcast? I would consider a person wearing black sunglasses during a 'storm' as a little unusual.

4. Tena Bar is the ultimate of two wild cards dealt, in my opinion. Was a 30 foot red and yellow canopy or half a mile of lines discovered? Nope. A briefcase with some road flares and batteries? Nope. A canvas bank bag on the shoreline? Nope. Anything resembling a harness, D-ring or webbing? Nope. But the two most impossibly delicate remnants being a placard discovered in BFE by a litter conscience hunter! Combined with that US Treasury linen buried on the shores of the Columbia for a vacationing family to discover in February! These two events are so unlikely as to make NOT finding the other stuff appear strange. The only thought I have given Tena Bar is - water always finds it's level and that is down; and down the path of least resistance. So many years, could it have been in cold storage in Vancouver Lake? Did Cooper surgically prang himself into a mud flat/bar where the anaerobic environment would be less destructive to paper until a flood or dredge released the remains?

5. Sorry, I was trying to be a smart donkey with that reference. The paradox of accepting Coopers ability to precisely jump and land with an unwieldy 20 pound cloth covered hammer and escape detection or capture would make him an expert hijacker using the aft stairs of a 727. While also accepting as logical an experienced airline crew who just used the same airway suddenly blundering across the skies like Helen Keller with a wasps nest in the cockpit. I have NO idea what he may have done for a living.

A quick reply while I process the above -

Excellent and appreciated. You remind me of two professional pilots who posted briefly ages ago, in this forum. Their analysis was very similar to yours.

Your sudden entry here is most welcome!

[georger 244]

a white canopy.
I thought Ckret verified this?

[snowmman 3]

This is a repost of another plane crash with no body found (in '71). There's actually a couple of them at different places in the Columbia (and also random drownings with no body found)

"That autumn, Tektronix announced the first layoffs in its fast-paced history. Adding to the pain that year was the death of Murdock, who drowned when his seaplane flipped during takeoff on the Columbia River. Murdock had not been active in daily management of the company for many years, but he had stayed on as chairman of the board and was generally regarded as the person who gave Tektronix its strategic vision."

details of the accident:

from Google News (article snippet)
May 18, 1971 - State Patrol officers said Murdock, 54, and a passenger, Naomi Hamblin of Portland, swam for shore after staying with the overturned plane for two hours. Police said Murdock apparently did not make it to shore. Mrs. Hamblin said the two floated downstream with the plane until it was caught in ...
also see here:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=KkMVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xwgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3051,6534809&dq=murdock+drowned+tektronix


Friend's tribute which confirmed Murdock's body never found..also picture of flipped seaplane at this url:
http://www.orjw.org/Paranormal-journey/MJ-Murdock/index.htm
"May 16, 1971 when he wasn't able to get his seaplane back in the air after landing at Miller's Cove on the Columbia and it tipped over on a stormy day in May. The treacherous undertow soon carried him and his plane out of sight. The plane was later recovered. Jack was last seen precariously clinging to a float. His body was never found. "


This 1980 article also refers to him being "presumed drowned" in 1971.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=KqQSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MvkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3917,4135986&dq=murdock+drowned+tektronix

attached photo of the flipped seaplane

[377 22]

I am surprised the Mafia didn't dump all their bodies in the Columbia. Those ship propellers snag everything and make things disappear permanently. Tom knew what he was talking about. Given a choice between soldier, realtor, engineer or scientist, the best bet is always on the scientist.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I am surprised the Mafia didn't dump all their bodies in the Columbia. Those ship propellers snag everything and make things disappear permanently. Tom knew what he was talking about. Given a choice between soldier, realtor, engineer or scientist, the best bet is always on the scientist.

377

hey they're still finding Indian bones around/in the Columbia river. Remember when they found Kennewick Man in 1996, 9300 year old bones.

And the jawbone they just found recently this month up by Richland, WA in the Columbia is confirmed to be Native American. Richland is right near Kennewick.
http://kuow.org/program.php?id=18343
about 200 miles upstream of Portland.

Oh yeah almost forgot: I have been authorized by House Subcommittee to release the following:
The FBI found Cooper's bones.

The evidence:

The Burke Museum is still holding Kennewick man.
see legal and other timeline here:
http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/kman/chronology.php

Guess what Museum has the Kennewick man: Burke Museum.
Who works at the Burke Museum: The scientist.
http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/collections/paleontology/people_kaye.php

P.S. The wedding cake is ready. Previous customer never picked up. 30% off. Cash only. Will deliver.

[snowmman 3]

Attached is an aerial shot of the find location for Kennewick Man.
It is the same as Tena Bar.

The conclusion is obvious.

(attached photo from site)
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/kman/

(edit) Also: the Beer connection:
from http://www.tri-cityherald.com/1211/story/136622.html

"The man who found Kennewick Man"
By Anna King, Herald staff writer

Will Thomas was standing in knee-deep water trying to finish off a couple cans of Busch Light.

He saw a roundish brown rock in the river near his foot and thought he would play a joke on his buddy Dave Deacy who was standing nearby onshore.

"I thought I could pull it off like it was a head," Thomas said.

The rock was stuck in the thick mud, so Thomas had to take a firm right-hand grip to free it while clutching his beer safely in his left hand.

Oddly, the rock wasn't heavy.

Then he saw teeth.

"It was a jaw dropper," Thomas said. "It was a human skull, no doubt about it.""

[nigel99 474]

Quote

Snowman,

I was taking liberties with some of the parameters in my post. 30 foot red and yellow widget versus a more precise description. My failed point was the improbability of discovering a small piece of sheet plastic in the woods by a man who had the brains to realize it may have come from an aircraft and notify the authorities.

I was not trying to introduce new information nor muddy the waters.

Nice to see some fresh blood on the thread after the past 12k posts where we have collectively recycled self-mutilation

I agree that it is "odd" that money is found but not harder evidence.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

And whats the cammo fetish all about? Even our police SWAT team wears it, which is absurd in an urban setting if you think about it.

I remember being told once that camo is not (as most people think) to try make you 'blend' with your surrounds, but because the eye is trained to see forms and the haphazard patterns on the camo effectively break up the 'expected' forms. I'm sure this can be explained much better, but hopefully you understand what i mean!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

btw re the placard - i thought somewhere it had been proved that it did in fact come from cooper's 727?

2 disappeared bodies - that we know of. And 377, how do you know that the mafia don't, in fact, use the columbia?!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

btw re the placard - i thought somewhere it had been proved that it did in fact come from cooper's 727?

I don't remember that.

How would they prove it? Remember the time displacement between the hijack and the placard find. (Jan, 1979)

I searched on "placard" for posts by Ckret.
There was only one where Ckret mentioned the placard.
Ckret mentions a "20 degrees" theory. But that's pretty weak. It's possible. Not guaranteed.

"From reading the reports in the file the placard was found in this general area, I have not located the Sheriff's Office report on the matter so I don't have the exact location. Keep in mind the airstairs where released just a few minutes out of Seatac, so they would have been open about 20 degrees the whole flight. "

Let's see, in Gunther's book, there's a caption under the photo of it...where they say "confirmed by the FBI to be the one missing from the plane".

How would the FBI confirm though?

It does say "Emergency Exit Handle" at the top...that makes it sound like it's an interior sign. I'm not sure where the exterior sign question was raised.

But if it's an interior sign, then yeah, it's hard to believe any other 727's would be open to losing an interior sign.

I attached the photo from the Gunther book (again) since it's the best one that I think is available.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

And whats the cammo fetish all about? Even our police SWAT team wears it, which is absurd in an urban setting if you think about it.

I remember being told once that camo is not (as most people think) to try make you 'blend' with your surrounds, but because the eye is trained to see forms and the haphazard patterns on the camo effectively break up the 'expected' forms. I'm sure this can be explained much better, but hopefully you understand what i mean!

Or, breaking up recognisable patterns is how one
"blends in" ? It isnt just patterns, but patterns in
motion and the eye/brain's ability to pull patterns
out of forms in motion... likewise broken paterns tend to form the illusion of motion when there is none. It is more difficult to 'target' broken moving
patterns ... in any setting especially under stress.

The issue for Cooper is night vision, ie extra foveal
vision. (Google "foveal vision").

We know that at one point Cooper asked for lights
off in the passenger area of the plane, but this
was never explained very thoroughly. Lights on. Lights off. When and at what times? Were the lights on in Cooper's area when Tina last saw and communicated with Cooper? We assume yes. Cooper also had the blinds pulled on the windows
so outsiders could not see in (after they landed at
SEA)?

Cooper mentioned Tacoma from the air. Did he know Tacoma and its environs? (A relative of mine
was involved in the search for Cooper at Tacoma
as a result of Cooper's remark).

Did Cooper know the VCR-PDX area? Or is Ckret's
assertion literally true: that Cooper was flying blind,
had no idea where he was, etc etc ? In any event
night vision is involved for Cooper (extra foveal vision) where if you have no idea of the area you are bailing into at night,. that is a disadvantage.

I thought Farflung's points about points of
light pilots would look for when coming into the PDX area, was very good. It shows Farflung's experience
and explains what Rat may have meant. Was Cooper
operating from a similar experience base? Probably
not.

[Orange1 0]

We never knew the reason for the lights off, but it fits perfectly with the experience of a skydiver doing a night jump re the night vision issue. So some might look at that and say: he'd done that before.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

What We Think Happened:
We'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he landed. We like to think that immediately after, he was accosted by a group of mountain men who did indescribable things to him. They then took his money, moved to Seattle and opened the first Starbucks.

from http://www.cracked.com/article_16501_6-people-who-just-fucking-disappeared.html (warning for those of you who may be offended by suchlike: some gratuitous profanity on this site)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman .I posted the reason for flight' plans while you were dormant .Please go back and review all my post. Then you will not be confused . Geoger will also tell you this. A lot happened while you were dormant. Orange 1 verification can be realized by fact's .You for one know' this . Thank you for your realization of facts. New guy on this forum .Please read all past post before you make judgement. Realize that there is a lot of bad feelings. with some on this site. When it come's to fact and not fiction . We all will give you the truth. Now Snowmman . When it come's to the flight path. Why would you post such a derogatory coment That you have not heard of the original flight path. Read the past Post . Georger I can not understand why you even acknowledged the fact that the flight path was idden. You and I talked. You of all people Know the truth and the fact's on this .You .No the flight path that was published was false and why. The true flight path was accross troutdale. And you know why. Now Snowmman All you have to do is check this out. Ther is one more thing I have never said there was not a drift Factor I have alway's said there was one . I have never said there was a 20 mile difference . What i have said is there was a posibility of that much .What I HAVE SAID IS THAT THERE WAS A drift difference of 12 mile's. Check before Quating. Jerry

[georger 244]

Quote

We never knew the reason for the lights off, but it fits perfectly with the experience of a skydiver doing a night jump re the night vision issue. So some might look at that and say: he'd done that before.

That is an interesting correlation. Very good point!
Could be a very important point showing experience
or good instincts from something in his prior
experience?

This is also the kind of thing that could give rise to myths - this I wish we had spent more on this lights-on light-off issue (blinds down etc) just to get a
real handle on it .............. when Larry was here!

Thanks.

[georger 244]

Quote

What We Think Happened:
We'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he landed. We like to think that immediately after, he was accosted by a group of mountain men who did indescribable things to him. They then took his money, moved to Seattle and opened the first Starbucks.

from http://www.cracked.com/article_16501_6-people-who-just-fucking-disappeared.html (warning for those of you who may be offended by suchlike: some gratuitous profanity on this site)

funny. Now if he landed near Orchards, caught the
8:42 train which goes straight down behind T-Bar
and was mugged in that area, money found ...
muggers run to find a boat to get across with the
loot and lose some .... well ....

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange 1 Alot of comment's made on this forum can be Identified as Different to say the least. The bottom line is that what I post is fact not fiction . I welcome anyone to challendge this comment. Fact remain's That my post is backed up by year's of rsearch and many year's of study. My experience is beyound reproach. Fact not fiction is what I deal with Day, to,Day . This post was prompted by a response. Made by someone that said I was like Jo. I made you a promise I would not respond to Jo. This I will keep. I recieve E mail's from those that tell lie's and can not be trusted from this forum. Enough Said Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger Cool Maybe he got a piggy back ride from you. and then walked to I.5 and barfed because he thought he had sea sickness.Jerry

[georger 244]

Georger I can not understand why you even acknowledged the fact that the flight path was
hidden. You and I talked.

I dont know what you are saying, Jerry. Yes, I know
there MIGHT BE reasons why a true flight path was
kept from the public. I have a few crude ideas why
that might be the case and yes we did talk and I
did hear what you said. But I dont know anything
for certainty! And fact is Jerry until you have something in hand then there is an outside chance
it is not exactly as some people close to you think
or thought. But again you are MUCH closer to this than me and I give you full credit for that. Your
time has not been in vain. We all know that! But,
I have never talked to Rat etc personally. I
dont have firsthand knowledge of anything. Plus,
I generally keep what we talk about between us
only! I spend a ton of time mulling things over
and I dont think that is time wasted. There, its now public knowledge. But even though we talk I still have no firsthand knowledge of anything ..... until I have the damned data in my hand directly from you know who (which will never happen)! Somebody upstairs is reading this and laughing ................

Im not Jo Weber. I try like hell not to conjecture about things I dont have firsthand knowledge of ...
and even then people deny things are true...



What I HAVE SAID IS THAT THERE WAS A drift difference of 12 mile's. Check before Quating. Jerry


I agree you never said "20 miles" straight out.
I agree you have always maintained a fairly
long drift from 225-235 to the NE which under the proper winds condx I could accept easily. (same figure Ckret seems to believe)? But damnit! Bohan said 166 degrees on his nose coming in! That is fact nobody can deny.
I also have the NOAA charts which make 166 degrees very plausible as a localised turbulence
cell (probably one of many such cells that day
up the V23 corridor IF he was closer to V23 than
you and others think they know is a fact.) The maps confirm these wx conditions. So I dont know what to say about 225-235 to NE in the area you search. If you come up with a piece of parachute tomorrow you will be famous and we will all be as happy as clams, and I will call Uncle Frank and have a party in VCR or Tacoma and you know the rest .............
So all I can do is keep working on this and hope
something comes together, but, Farflung and his
two predacessors make a lot of sense. These guys
are experienced pilots one has to take very seriously also.

[edit] These winds may be a bit more complex
than just 235 to NE or any single vector because
we have winds at 10k, winds at 5k, ground winds,
we have rotational cells moving through, we have
winds Bohan filed his report about (very specific
reported and Bohan was not making this up) ...
so it may not be as simple as ....... 12 miles to ...

That is all I am saying. I thought you agreed with that! ? Where did we lose each other?

[georger 244]

Quote

Orange 1 Alot of comment's made on this forum can be Identified as Different to say the least.

That is plain funny! Damn... and true.

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger. I did not mean any thing I said as derogatory toward's you. I apoligize if you took it that way. You are with out a doubt one of the most knowledgeable men I have ever had the opurtunity to Know. Yes ur conversation's have and will alway's be kept private. Public knowledge however that you and I can Identify is different. If It apear's I may cross the line I will call you prior. If you think that I may have crossed this line I expect you to call me . Friendship is priceless .Respect is only earned. You have my respect. If you think I come close to violating that . Please let me know . That is one area I do not wish to Breach. Jerry

[georger 244]

Quote

Geoger. I did not mean any thing I said as derogatory toward's you. I apoligize if you took it that way. You are with out a doubt one of the most knowledgeable men I have ever had the opurtunity to Know. Yes ur conversation's have and will alway's be kept private. Public knowledge however that you and I can Identify is different. If It apear's I may cross the line I will call you prior. If you think that I may have crossed this line I expect you to call me . Friendship is priceless .Respect is only earned. You have my respect. If you think I come close to violating that . Please let me know . That is one area I do not wish to Breach. Jerry

I know that!

The witch is gone. Lets make the most of it!

I think we must Give Farflung all the space he wants and needs.
I know you will. I will even shut up. Im just saying .... as you would advise me likewise...

He has my total support and everyone else here.

The forum is his if he wants it!

[snowmman 3]

"What I HAVE SAID IS THAT THERE WAS A drift difference of 12 miles"

What kind of drift is this?
plane?
money?
water?
tokyo?
arabian? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLjbRrUSVOI

I still don't understand why Jerry won't draw a flight path. A picture is worth 10,000 words in this case.

Let's see, if computer usage is the issue, produce a set of points as latitude/longitude, with minute intervals. Starting and ending at some interesting points.

Then I'll plot it for you.

I can't picture any such set of points that makes sense. So you have to produce the points.

I mean, once you start thinking about "points" and "time" ....you can see why talking about random drift here and there doesn't mean anything. It's all about time and place.


It's about time, it's about space,
About two men in the strangest place.
It's about time, it's about flight -
Traveling faster than the speed of light.
This is the tale of the brave crew
As through the barrier of time they flew.
Past a fighting minuteman, past an armored knight,
Past a Roman warrior, to this ancient site.
It's about caves, cavemen too,
About a time when the earth was new.
Wait'll they see what is in sight!
Is it good luck or is it good night?
It's about two astronauts, it's about their fate,
It's about a woman and her prehistoric mate.


(edit) if you don't have it in your head already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1G-TsdNWGg

[BruceSmith 3]

With the impasse on Braden (no word from Flo on the pix, and dead-ends with phone searches for Ted and family) I traveled down to Tina's Bar to chat with Richard and Al Fazio.

First off, I asked them about their cows and if they ever went down to the beach. The answer was "no, never," but Al was quite taken-back by the question.

"Who wants to know," he asked with some passion in his voice, so I told him, "Georger." Not sure if he recognized your name, G, but there you have it.

Al also wanted to know why you were asking, so I told him about your concerns with hooves digging up the sand, money, etc. He dismissed it all as a never-happened kind of thing.

But, there is bigger news, and here is my report:

Notes, Fazio Brothers, cattle mutilations. Visit September 21, 2009

On September 21, 2009 I followed-up on a tip from Galen Cook and traveled back to the Fazios to ask them about cattle mutilations to their herd, and crop circles on their fields.

Richard and Al Fazio readily admitted to having 4-5 cattle mutilated sometime in the early 1990s, probably 1992. However, they said they did not have any crop circles.

Richard brought out a manila folder, titled appropriately, “X-Files” and showed me the photographs of the mutilations. The cuts were serrated, and on one animal the serrations appeared to be very precise and zipper-like. They reminded me of teeth on a Halloween jack o-lantern, and Al described them as “cookie-cutter’ shaped. They were square with 90 degree angles, possessing a flat top and straight sides approximately one-quarter-inch on each facing.

In addition, the wounds were cauterized and no blood was found on the ground. The pictures show a very clean wound, as if it was a dissection, and no blood was seen in the cavity.

Al reported that sexual organs were removed, along with eye balls and ears, and one cow had circular portions of skin removed from its chest area.

The Fazios said the cows had been healthy before the mutilations, and were discovered lying in a grassy pasture sometime in spring after planting cabbage fields near-by.

The County Sheriffs investigated and no cause of death was determined. They have been officially declared “Cattle Mutilations.” No footprints or signs of a scuffle were found on the ground.

“The cattle were just lying on their side,” said Al, who added that there were no bullet wounds found.

After discovery, Richard took a cow that had recently died and dragged it to the area where the mutilated cows were found to see if predators would eat it and what kind of wounds these predators would leave, thereby proving that local critters could have done the mutilations.

Predators did come the next night and tore open the dead cow and ate much of it, leaving wounds typical of a wild animal – tearing and ripping - and not the precise incisions on the mutilated cows.

Animal pathologists from Oregon State University performed an investigation and confirmed the cauterization of the wounds.

Al said that a neighboring rancher had had several cows mutilated in a similar fashion a couple of years prior to their event. When asked about the prevalence of cattle mutilations and what the local ranching community says about them, Al replied, “There’s not too many cattle ranchers around here.”

Researcher Linda Moulton Howe, who is a former NBC TV news reporter from Colorado and a long-established investigator into the cattle mutilation phenomena, contacted the Fazios and asked to interview Richard. She invited him to LA to be in a movie on cattle mutilations, but Richard turned it down saying, “I didn’t want any part of that craziness.”

Other UFO and cattle mutilation researchers, and media, contacted the Fazios, “And we talked with them – no reason not to,” said Al.

A local Dominican priest, fearing Satanists, came out to the ranch with a gallon jug of “Holy Water” and blessed the ranch. The Fazios still have the jar, and it’s still half-filled.

The Fazios have a very mixed reaction to all of this. Al is particularly inquisitive about the subject, wanting to know the who, what and why of it all. Richard is more circumspect.

The Fazios say they have two thoughts on the source of the mutilations: UFOs or Satanists.

“I’ve never seen a UFO,” said Al, and it’s unclear as to whether he would truly like to, but he is clearly intrigued by the possibility, as well.

The Fazios questioned me about what I knew of cattle mutilations, UFOs, and related phenomena. I shared what I knew, and spent a lot of time describing my experiences as an "alien abduction experiencer," as researcher, the late Dr. John Mack so elequently describes us folks. IE: Lucid dream states that are fairly lengthy and can be engaged and expanded in hypnosis. As over 90 per cent of abduction experiencers, I have never had an encounter in a fully awake conscious state.

When I got home I distilled my thoughts on cattle mutilations and emailed the following to Richard and Al.


Letter to the Fazios, Cattle Mutilations, September 22, 2009



As for cattle mutilations, I have three primary theories that I consider:

1. Certain extraterrestrials, most widely reported to be the “Grays” – those little guys with the big heads and big eyes, are harvesting human tissue to capture suitable DNA that is charged with “emotional” qualities so that they can rebuild their own DNA and replace the emotionality that is missing from their life, which does looks pretty grim – they certainly don’t look like fellows who can tell a joke. This is the perspective that I have heard from Ramtha, the Enlightened One, and I believe he discusses it in his book “UFOs - Raiders from Above.”

2. Military- governmental- corporatocracy shenanigans, whereby these elements of our society like to keep people scared and off-center, as described by Naomi Klein in her book, “The Shock Doctrine.” End goal is to control the population and allow the elite to reap greater profits, power, etc.

3. Cosmic Forces: Whoever and whatever these may be, they are using the mutilations to shock us out of the complacency of social consciousness – “bust us out of the box,” so to speak. The goal is to have a greater spiritual awakening, and be more resistant to the machinations of those leading scenario #2. Kind of creepy, and not your typical angelic image of divine beings, but, whatever it takes, I guess, for humankind to evolve.


As for the Satanists, I doubt it. First, where are these Satanists and what are they doing with the tissue? I have no sense of them being out there. Besides exceptional abilities to approach cows and do surgery - and leave no evidence of a scuffle in the process - the mutilators are masters of secrecy as no one I know knows a mutilator. But most compelling, where did these fellows get their surgical instruments? As I understand it, the cauterization and serrated cuts indicate a level of sophistication at the upper limits of our technology. So, these guys are smart, savvy, secret and don’t like steak? Why? Why don’t they just steal a couple of cows - or heck, just buy a couple of cows - and take them back to their covens and get all the tissue they want – plus steaks and hamburger – and have a great BBQ and be well-fed when they’re satanizing, eh?

And one more thing, the mutilators, apparently, don’t have mothers. Why do they just leave the carcasses lying around? Didn’t their mothers tell them to clean-up after themselves? Very untidy and very rude behavior, I should say, at the very least. If they’re ETs, at least they could have dug a hole and buried the animals, or put them in a dumpster. Judged by the antics of their craft they should be able to dig a hole with their blue beams, etc.

Very poor manners on the part of these visitors to our planet, to say the least.

A litterbug is a litterbug in my book, regardless of how fancy a tin can they fly around in.

One last thing, I'd like to give a Big Howdy-Do to Farflung. I love your posts, sir/madam.

[georger 244]

First off, I asked them about their cows and if they ever went down to the beach. The answer was "no, never," but Al was quite taken-back by the question.

"Who wants to know," he asked with some passion in his voice, so I told him, "Georger." Not sure if he recognized your name, G, but there you have it.

Al also wanted to know why you were asking, so I told him about your concerns with hooves digging up the sand, money, etc. He dismissed it all as a never-happened kind of thing.